Democrat Debates and Trump

[idhawkman]

So now we've all had a look at the top 20 hopefuls for the democrats. Did anyone see a democrat that they think can beat Trump and why? I know I'm a homer for Trump but honestly, I'm not concerned about any of those that were on the stage the last two days. This country is not ready for any socialism or open borders and the dems are in danger of losing their traditional base of black and Hispanic voters because of it.

[I-5]

I didn't have a chance to watch either night, but my question to you is, do you think the country is ready for 4 more yours of autocratic rule?

[idhawkman]

I didn't have a chance to watch either night, but my question to you is, do you think the country is ready for 4 more yours of autocratic rule?

I can tell you this, they are not ready for socialism and they will be loving the economy. I don't think they will take a risk on abandoning that.

[burrrton]

"Autocratic rule."

Jesus.

[Aseahawkfan]

I didn't have a chance to watch either night, but my question to you is, do you think the country is ready for 4 more yours of autocratic rule?

A little overdramatic. If you lived under real autocratic rule, you would know it. I've talked to plenty of folks that lived under autocratic rule and if you think this is it, you need to go find some folks living in Iraq during Saddam or living in real oppressive places like China. We have a narcissistic, bombastic, annoying reality star president. But we don't allow autocrats and we don't have one.

[Aseahawkfan]

I read up on the debates. I think their plan to provide all immigrants illegally entering the United States health benefits while naturalizing them is going to turn a lot of folks off. I think they are once again not aware of America's real stance on immigration. I don't think most Americans enjoy having these huge camps on the border and they don't want some pogrom against immigrants like some folks are calling for, but they also don't want the no borders and all immigrants get free stuff for making it to America policy either.

A well-thought out stance on immigration tied to our current economic conditions that isn't used by big corps to globalize the labor pool to drive down wages, but that is still generous and allows us to grow as a nation with a fairly low birth rate is much more palatable than a we don't want any immigrants or a let them all in and give them a ton of taxpayer supported benefits plans. Americans on the whole don't despise immigrants, but they also don't want a bust the border attitude either.

The hate Wall Street ideas are not as relevant as they were 3 years ago. Business is booming and people are making a lot of money. Swing voters aren't usually the unemployed poor of the nation looking to take a bite of Wall Street. Those folks are already in Democratic pockets. Swing voters want to hear intelligent, centrist policy that is good for the nation. When even Yahoo News isn't posting that from the Dems, they may be in trouble.

[idhawkman]

I read up on the debates. I think their plan to provide all immigrants illegally entering the United States health benefits while naturalizing them is going to turn a lot of folks off.

Yep, a lot of the lower income folks since those are going to be the jobs that the illegals are taking. And the Dems want to be the working class party? I don't think so...

I think they are once again not aware of America's real stance on immigration. I don't think most Americans enjoy having these huge camps on the border and they don't want some pogrom against immigrants like some folks are calling for, but they also don't want the no borders and all immigrants get free stuff for making it to America policy either.

A well-thought out stance on immigration tied to our current economic conditions that isn't used by big corps to globalize the labor pool to drive down wages, but that is still generous and allows us to grow as a nation with a fairly low birth rate is much more palatable than a we don't want any immigrants or a let them all in and give them a ton of taxpayer supported benefits plans. Americans on the whole don't despise immigrants, but they also don't want a bust the border attitude either.

The hate Wall Street ideas are not as relevant as they were 3 years ago. Business is booming and people are making a lot of money. Swing voters aren't usually the unemployed poor of the nation looking to take a bite of Wall Street. Those folks are already in Democratic pockets. Swing voters want to hear intelligent, centrist policy that is good for the nation. When even Yahoo News isn't posting that from the Dems, they may be in trouble.

Yep, That's why Trump has a legal immigration level of 1 million per year. Hes' the one that sounds like he has a strategy not the decriminalize it gang.

[I-5]

Yes, it was a hyperbole. Lighten up.

However, do you know any president in the modern era since the 2 term limit law was imposed after FDR passed that has ever suggested or even joked about staying on past the second term?

[idhawkman]

Yes, it was a hyperbole. Lighten up.

However, do you know any president in the modern era since the 2 term limit law was imposed after FDR passed that has ever suggested or even joked about staying on past the second term?

yes, Clinton only he was going to do it through his wife or maybe that is vice versa since she probably ran that place the first time.

[idhawkman]

One more thought about these debates. I think they are putting off the democrats and I'm pretty sure that Sanders will probably run as an independent if he doesn't get the nomination. Either way, I think the enthusiasm is waning for the dems which makes it real risky for them. 15 states representing 196 electoral votes are part of the NPVIC which gives all their state's electoral votes to whomever wins the popular vote. That would give Trump over 400 votes in the electoral college if the Dems can't get a candidate that is capable of winning the popular vote.

That would be a huge mandate for whatever Trump wanted to do...

As it is now, Senators and congressmen are now saying that they can not run with the top of their ticket regardless of who wins the nomination. ALL of the dems raised their hand to abolish private health insurance and yet voted to give illegals free health care for life. There's no way to square those two positions.

[Aseahawkfan]

Yes, it was a hyperbole. Lighten up.

However, do you know any president in the modern era since the 2 term limit law was imposed after FDR passed that has ever suggested or even joked about staying on past the second term?

Usually the opposing party makes that story up to make the current president seem worse than he is. Heard that trash from Republicans when Obama was president and the same trash from Democrats when Bush Jr. was president.

I never much listen to it because our law is very clear. Neither party is looking to change it. Trump can joke all he wants.

[Aseahawkfan]

That healthcare and benefits position for illegal immigrants was about as dumb as I've read. I'm surprised the Dems think that is a smart position, any of them. You wonder why citizenship checks for voting are being pushed hearing trash like that.

[burrrton]

Yes, it was a hyperbole. Lighten up.

Hey, don't shoot the messenger- it's impossible to distinguish hyperbole from actual concerns with too many today.

However, do you know any president in the modern era since the 2 term limit law was imposed after FDR passed that has ever suggested or even joked about staying on past the second term?

Perfect example. Of course it was a joke**, but you sound like you're legitimately worried on some level. Why?

[edit]

** And the reason he joked about it was because so many lunatics started hollering as soon as he was elected that they didn't think he'd ever leave, etc, etc, and so on.

It's a lot like Obama joking about being Kenyan- it was a ridiculous issue (of course he was born in Hawaii, and it didn't matter anyway), but it made the other side look stupid so he kept it alive and laughed about it.

[I-5]

Thanks for humoring me, guys. Although, I’m not familiar with either Clinton or Obama threatening us with a third term. Did they?

And yes, I can easily picture him saying ‘everyone’s saying I should stay in office if they fix the election against me...’. That would probably be the least controversial thing he’d say on any given day.

[burrrton]

You're drawing distinctions without a difference, there, chief.

But keep laughing this guy to another term, then congratulate yourself.

[RiverDog]

That healthcare and benefits position for illegal immigrants was about as dumb as I've read. I'm surprised the Dems think that is a smart position, any of them. You wonder why citizenship checks for voting are being pushed hearing trash like that.

Agreed, that was an obscene proposal regarding rights for illegals. Trash is the nicest thing that can be said about it.

But the Dem's position on immigration is far more reasonable than Trump's, who has declared that the country is "full" when schools are closing for lack of students and we have more job openings BY FAR than we have unemployed.

[RiverDog]

You're drawing distinctions without a difference, there, chief.

But keep laughing this guy to another term, then congratulate yourself.

The concern is that with Trump's propensity to just plain make up stuff and discount anything that casts him in a bad light as "fake news" along with the threat of deep fake technology that has a genuine potential to create havoc with our elections by creating falsified information that if Trump loses a close election that he will declare that it was rigged and refuse to leave office.

I agree that it's a rather far fetched scenario and I'm not subscribing to it, but there is enough evidence that we've seen over the past 3 years in the form of Trump's eccentric behavior and deep fake technology that it's a bit more than just some whacky suggestion out of Area 51.

[burrrton]

But the Dem's position on immigration is far more reasonable than Trump's

Not even close. His position is wrong, theirs is off-the-charts bananas.

[burrrton]

I agree that it's a rather far fetched scenario and I'm not subscribing to it, but there is enough evidence that we've seen over the past 3 years in the form of Trump's eccentric behavior and deep fake technology that it's a bit more than just some whacky suggestion out of Area 51.

No, it's a whacky suggestion out of Area 51, and just because Clinton, Bush, and Obama joked about different things doesn't make this joke any more of a serious threat.

This isn't a banana republic, guys.

[RiverDog]

But the Dem's position on immigration is far more reasonable than Trump's

Not even close. His position is wrong, theirs is off-the-charts bananas.

The "off the charts bananas" position is a $25B border wall that will do next to nothing in addressing the vast majority of illegal aliens and illicit goods entering the country.

But I do agree that some of the proposals made by Dems go too far, like de-criminalizing illegal border crossings. It's not "open borders" that Trump claims as under their proposal they would still be prosecuted civil court, but it is a radical idea.

What they should be doing is increasing INS staff, immigration judges, and handling facilities in order to better expedite the huge backlog that was created in part by Trump's zero tolerance policy. We need to allow a certain number of deserving immigrants as we have a severe labor shortage that if not addressed, will begin to be a drag on our economy. The birth rate in the USA is continuing to decline and there will not be not enough native born Americans to fill job openings that currently way outnumber those that are unemployed. I just read where the average age of a licensed electrician is 55 years old and demand for that occupation is expected to increase by 9% over 10 years.

[burrrton]

...but it is a radical idea.

Ya think?

[RiverDog]

...but it is a radical idea.

Ya think?

Don't overwork yourself in crafting your responses...

[burrrton]

Don't overwork yourself in crafting your responses...

[Aseahawkfan]

Agreed, that was an obscene proposal regarding rights for illegals. Trash is the nicest thing that can be said about it.

But the Dem's position on immigration is far more reasonable than Trump's, who has declared that the country is "full" when schools are closing for lack of students and we have more job openings BY FAR than we have unemployed.

Where are you getting this schools are closing idea? Why is it that you can post a schools are closing statement and at the same time someone else will stay we don't have enough schools and classrooms are too full? What are you reading to support your belief? I swear. So many different sites with immensely different information that I would like to see to determine where their data come from. I literally had a discussion about under capacity for teachers and schools and we didn't have enough schools to keep classrooms at a reasonable size. Your information would contradict this information.

Where are you getting the employment information as well? As far as I know employment issues have more to do with America not producing folks with the necessary skills for the economy, not because of immigration because of a poorly educated population in specific areas like computer programming and other technical skills. We have tons of psychology, philosophy, and liberal arts degrees and a dearth of scientific and technical degrees. We're not going to get that from Latin America.

[Hawktawk]

I didn't really watch more than snippets of the debates but watched all the coverage afterwards. Day one was a dud. All the progressives gushing over Warren must want another 4 years of Trump.An annoying policy wonk nag who sounds like an angry schoolteacher lecturing her class. Beto where did you go. Julian Castro? if that's having a good night hello?The nominee will come from the second night. It will be interesting to see how new polls look for Biden after an uneven lackluster performance and getting schooled by Kamela Harris. One of his major fundraisers has bailed but had done so before the debate. Mayor Pete would be the next president of the united states if he weren't gay and married.

I say that not out of homophobia as i've crossed that bridge long ago but out of pragmatic political calculation. I could be wrong because hes smart as hell, has great answers for the questions and has served his country with honor. hes wise beyond his years.

Now Harris was to me the overwhelming breakout star and I think polls will show it. Its also telling that Trump jumped in to defend Biden against her attacks on twitter. He may be a complete tool(well is, not may be) but I think he saw the flaws of Biden and the danger of Kamela Harris, a centrist candidate with a record of law and order, attractive, extremely well spoken and in command of the issues. And shes already on the record as saying she favors his prosecution after he leaves office. As the former AG of the state of California she isn't just another politician talking out of her arse. She knows the laws he's broken. I think it would be delicious seeing a strong woman cutting him to ribbons on the debate stage as his red face and fat head looks ready to explode, his twitter blizzards increasingly unhinged.He wont bully her.

But note to the dems, People aren't giving you a chance because of policy. They sort of like the economy etc for the most part . They are giving you a shot because of Donald Trump. As George Will said his numbers have no room to move, but yours do. Keep pushing their wackadoodle fringe ideas and you might just dumb down the vote enough to give yourselves and all of us 4 more years of the adult day care.

[idhawkman]

The "off the charts bananas" position is a $25B border wall that will do next to nothing in addressing the vast majority of illegal aliens and illicit goods entering the country.

I have no idea how you can be so wrong River. Off the charts bananas is not a border wall costing $5B not $25B looks like an absolute bargain when you compare it to a $25T bill for healthcare to the illegals over a 10 year period. Those are congress' numbers not mine.

But I do agree that some of the proposals made by Dems go too far, like de-criminalizing illegal border crossings. It's not "open borders" that Trump claims as under their proposal they would still be prosecuted civil court, but it is a radical idea.

What they should be doing is increasing INS staff, immigration judges, and handling facilities in order to better expedite the huge backlog that was created in part by Trump's zero tolerance policy. We need to allow a certain number of deserving immigrants as we have a severe labor shortage that if not addressed, will begin to be a drag on our economy. The birth rate in the USA is continuing to decline and there will not be not enough native born Americans to fill job openings that currently way outnumber those that are unemployed. I just read where the average age of a licensed electrician is 55 years old and demand for that occupation is expected to increase by 9% over 10 years.

Well Pelosi just got her butt handed to her last week and forced to vote for exactly that. More facilities, more judges, more agents, etc. She was ticked at Shumer for not controlling his dems in the senate that first passed the senate bill overwhelmingly. This is a major blow to Pelosi and the far left radicals in her party.

[idhawkman]

I didn't really watch more than snippets of the debates but watched all the coverage afterwards. Day one was a dud. All the progressives gushing over Warren must want another 4 years of Trump.An annoying policy wonk nag who sounds like an angry schoolteacher lecturing her class. Beto where did you go. Julian Castro? if that's having a good night hello?The nominee will come from the second night. It will be interesting to see how new polls look for Biden after an uneven lackluster [performance and getting schooled by Kamela Harris.

Except she was wrong on the subject. I'm not going to defend Biden though so let him fall again.

Mayor Pete would be the next president of the united states if he weren't gay and married.

I say that not out of homophobia as i've crossed that bridge long ago but out of pragmatic political calculation. I could be wrong because hes smart as hell, has great answers for the questions and has served his country with honor. hes wise beyond his years.

I'm calling BS on you for this. You say he's wise and smart etc, yet he can't even run a police department in his own city as a mayor. How the heck are you going to justify giving him a 3-4 position raise for failing at his current job?

Now Harris was to me the overwhelming breakout star and I think polls will show it. Its also telling that Trump jumped in to defend Biden against her attacks on twitter. He may be a complete tool(well is, not may be) but I think he saw the flaws of Biden and the danger of Kamela Harris, a centrist candidate with a record of law and order, attractive, extremely well spoken and in command of the issues. And shes already on the record as saying she favors his prosecution after he leaves office. As the former AG of the state of California she isnt just another politician talking out of her arse. She knows the laws hes broken. I think it would be delicious seeing a strong woman cutting him to ribbons on the debate stage as his red face and fat head looks ready to explode, his twitter blizzards increasingly unhinged.He wont bully her.

She won't make it out of her own party to get the nomination because as you point out, as a prosecutor she's incarcerated huge numbers of blacks and hispanics for minor drug offenses which are going to come back and bite her. Add to that, she is for free medical to illegals, single payer health care, etc. I had a friend quote on facebook a summary of what she stands for and I'll post it here as it is exactly what will happen.

The military is the modern socialist's dream society ....free college, housing, healthcare, with standardized pay and monetary offsets for working outside of that community. Granted, you have to accept the community rules and the goal of the whole is greater than the individual, as well as spending is closely monitored to where every medical visit starts with Motrin and water, but it IS the system they want in the country they want.....IRONY!

But note to the dems, People aren't giving you a chance because of policy. They sort of like the economy etc for the most part . They are giving you a shot because of Donald Trump. As George Will said his numbers have no room to move, but yours do. Keep pushing their wackadoodle fringe ideas and you might just dumb down the vote enough to give yourselves and all of us 4 more years of the adult day care.

ooops! Too late.

[burrrton]

ooops! Too late.

There's still over a year to go, ID- I wouldn't be counting your chickens yet.

[idhawkman]

ooops! Too late.

There's still over a year to go, ID- I wouldn't be counting your chickens yet.

Normally I would agree but watching this cluster of a dem field, it will only get worse for them. They've already given Trump so much ammo for commercials and attacks that it isn't even close.

[RiverDog]

Agreed, that was an obscene proposal regarding rights for illegals. Trash is the nicest thing that can be said about it.

But the Dem's position on immigration is far more reasonable than Trump's, who has declared that the country is "full" when schools are closing for lack of students and we have more job openings BY FAR than we have unemployed.

Where are you getting this schools are closing idea?

I misspoke. The total school enrollment in primary and secondary schools has remained relatively flat since 2007, between 75 and 80 million, but there has been a significant decline in post secondary enrollment:

Today, the U.S. Census Bureau announced the release of new data on the makeup of student bodies from kindergartens to universities across the country. According to the latest data, the number of students nationwide enrolled in school was 76.4 million in 2017, not statistically different from the level in 2016.

Post-secondary enrollment fell 1.7% from last year, marking the eighth straight year of declines....Since 2007, overall enrollment in high school has not significantly changed.

The enrollment drop-off, which many see as a crisis, is largely driven by the Great Recession, which resulted in a significant drop in the U.S. birthrate. Scholars estimate that nearly 2.3 million fewer babies were born between 2008 and 2013, which, when combined with an expansion of higher education offerings in the decades preceding that, means too many slots compared to the number of applicants.

https://www.usnews.com/news/education-n ... down-again

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-r ... lment.html

[burrrton]

A dropoff in college enrollment is being called a "crisis"?? LOL.

[RiverDog]

Where are you getting the employment information as well? As far as I know employment issues have more to do with America not producing folks with the necessary skills for the economy, not because of immigration because of a poorly educated population in specific areas like computer programming and other technical skills. We have tons of psychology, philosophy, and liberal arts degrees and a dearth of scientific and technical degrees. We're not going to get that from Latin America.

I thought it was common knowledge, but here you go!

It’s official: The US economy doesn’t have enough workers.

For nearly a year now, the number of open jobs each month has been higher than the number of people looking for work — the first time that’s happened since the Department of Labor began tracking job turnover two decades ago.

At the end of January, the US economy had 7.6 million unfilled jobs, but only 6.5 million people were looking for work, according to data released Friday by the US Department of Labor. This was the 11th straight month that the number of job openings was higher than the number of job seekers. And each month, the gap has grown.

Nearly ever industry now has a labor shortage, but here’s the twist: Employers are having a harder time filling blue-collar positions than professional positions that require a college education.

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/18/18270916/ ... workers-us

[burrrton]

You need to be careful quoting Vox (aka BridgeToGaza.com), but yeah- I think we're certainly in need of workers right now.

[idhawkman]

A dropoff in college enrollment is being called a "crisis"?? LOL.

Most likely it is not because of fewer births even in the recession since those kids would only be 11 years old at most. It is most likely becasue the colleges have priced themselves out of middle america's price range.

[idhawkman]

Where are you getting the employment information as well? As far as I know employment issues have more to do with America not producing folks with the necessary skills for the economy, not because of immigration because of a poorly educated population in specific areas like computer programming and other technical skills. We have tons of psychology, philosophy, and liberal arts degrees and a dearth of scientific and technical degrees. We're not going to get that from Latin America.

I thought it was common knowledge, but here you go!

It’s official: The US economy doesn’t have enough workers.

For nearly a year now, the number of open jobs each month has been higher than the number of people looking for work — the first time that’s happened since the Department of Labor began tracking job turnover two decades ago.

At the end of January, the US economy had 7.6 million unfilled jobs, but only 6.5 million people were looking for work, according to data released Friday by the US Department of Labor. This was the 11th straight month that the number of job openings was higher than the number of job seekers. And each month, the gap has grown.

Nearly ever industry now has a labor shortage, but here’s the twist: Employers are having a harder time filling blue-collar positions than professional positions that require a college education.

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/18/18270916/ ... workers-us

And yet, how do you explain all the homeless spilling over into our parks and streets in most every major city? Are they not capable of meaningful work or has the illegal immigrants taken all their jobs?

[burrrton]

It is most likely becasue the colleges have priced themselves out of middle america's price range.

This, and "academia" in 2019 has become somewhat of a punchline because of all the extreme left nuttiness.

There's more appreciation every year that college isn't right for everyone and that it's not the necessity it either was in the past or was presented as such.

[RiverDog]

You need to be careful quoting Vox (aka BridgeToGaza.com), but yeah- I think we're certainly in need of workers right now.

They are quoting information from the Department of Labor, which IMO is an accurate source.

But here's one from USA Today that quotes the Bureau of Labor and Statistics:

The number of vacancies is pulling well ahead of the number the Bureau of Labor Statistics counts as unemployed. This year is the first time this has happened since the BLS started tracking JOLTS numbers in 2000.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/na ... 676191002/

And the labor shortage stretches across a breadth of industries:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/these-are- ... shortages/

[RiverDog]

And yet, how do you explain all the homeless spilling over into our parks and streets in most every major city? Are they not capable of meaningful work or has the illegal immigrants taken all their jobs?

Alcohol, drugs, crime, mental illness, the cause varies. Many if not most employers now require that all applicants pass a drug screen and background check so a lot of those people wouldn't be able to get a job. Plus there are some that are there because they can't hold onto a job or just plain don't want to work. The plight of the homeless is due to a lot of things, but one of them is not the lack of employment opportunities.

And speaking from experience, there aren't very many employers that offer "meaningful work", which I assume you mean to be non farm, that hire illegals. They have to provide a valid SSN. I wouldn't doubt that a lot of fly by night companies like lawn care, housekeeping, etc hire illegals under the table, but those jobs/workers wouldn't show up in the statistics I've linked above.

[RiverDog]

A dropoff in college enrollment is being called a "crisis"?? LOL.

The drop off in college enrollment isn't a problem, it's a symptom of a problem. It is an indication of the shrinking pool of available workers.

The bottom line is that due to the steady decline in the birth rate, there aren't going to be enough American born citizens from the 18-35 age group that are needed to pay into group health insurance without taking out. The ratio of worker to retiree is going to continue to get worse and make Medicare and Social Security even more unsustainable. We have a need for young, healthy workers, particularly in those occupations that do not require a college education, like truck drivers, electricians, health care workers, etc.

[burrrton]

The drop off in college enrollment isn't a problem, it's a symptom of a problem. It is an indication of the shrinking pool of available workers.

I'm not sure what this even means, RD. "College students" != "workers", and if elementary and secondary ed enrollment is flat, but college is down, the problem isn't the number of students available.

The bottom line is that due to the steady decline in the birth rate, there aren't going to be enough American born citizens from the 18-35 age group that are needed to pay into group health insurance without taking out. The ratio of worker to retiree is going to continue to get worse and make Medicare and Social Security even more unsustainable. We have a need for young, healthy workers, particularly in those occupations that do not require a college education, like truck drivers, electricians, health care workers, etc.

Agreed. Maybe I'm missing the gist of something here.