Four Hawks to Watch

[RiverDog]

Here's a few Hawk players on my personal watch list:

DK Metcalf, WR, Rookie We've never had a legitimate, big #1 receiver ala Julio Jones, AJ Green, or Megatron, but this guy possesses many of those characteristics. Metcalf was once rumored as a possible top 10 pick but we nabbed him at the bottom of the 2nd round with the #64 overall. This guy could turn out to be the steal of the draft.

Jamarco Jones, OT, 2nd Year The Hawks really liked Jones last season before he got hurt. With the Hawks passing on Ifedi's 5th year option, we could be looking at our eventual starter at RT.

Shaquem Griffin, Edge, 2nd year With the trade of Frank Clark leaving a gaping hole on the DL, someone needs to rise to the occasion and fill the void. Edge rushing is 'quem's long suit and he could be a big role player in our 3rd down package.

Will Dissley, TE, 2nd Year Another offensive player coming off a major knee injury, Dissley was playing well before he went down in Week 4. There's a lot of competition at TE and it's a featured position in Schott's offense. Dissley is perhaps the best blocker of the group, which might give him an edge. This is the last year of Nick Vannett's rookie contract.

[NorthHawk]

That's a good group to focus on. We also signed Demetrius Knox, G, Ohio State. I wonder if he played with Jones or if
he was too young and inexperienced at the time.

On the Defense of the returning players, I'm interested in if Rasheem Green takes a big step forward and on Offense,
I want to see Penny start strong.

Of the rookies, other than Collier, Marquis Blair - can he dial it back a little and still be an effective missile at SS?

Offensive rookies, Gary Jennings might be a surprise and could play some slot along with out wide.

2 UFA's caught my eye, DB's Devante Davis and Derrek Thomas who in the highlight reels, look like Pete's type
of DB's with their length and physicality.

In all, there is a lot of talent that could push out an expected returning player. I hate to see players go, but if
it improves the team then it has to be done.

[RiverDog]

Good call out on Rasheem Green. He looked great in the preseason but disappeared after that. We're going to need someone like him to step up and fill in the void left by Clark's departure. It's hard to visualize being a SB contender unless someone rises to the occasion.

Another player that's getting some love in OTA's is Amara Darboh. The other day Russell Wilson mentioned him without being asked. He's going to have to work for playing time with Lockett, Metcalf, Moore, and Jaron Brown ahead of him on the depth chart, but outside of Lockett, none of those guys are a lock.

[jshawaii22]

I love this time of year. Everyone of our draft picks has 'potential' and they were all steals at the draft. While we'd like to compare him to other HOF receivers before his first practice in pads, Metcalf was passed on by 59 other teams, including a couple times by the Seahawks... is he the diamond in the rough or just another 6' 4" 220lb kid who can't run routes and drops passes, which was his MO of why he dropped from the top 10 into the 60's. it wasn't drugs or DV or an arrest, which makes up most of these stories, either. I HOPE I'M WRONG, TOO. HOF? Maybe... you never know.

Arizona got the steal of the draft a couple years ago with a pot-head Ndemche (sp) - he was supposed to be great, he doesn't start and doesn't play much.
Why? It's called a crap-shoot. The whole NFL draft is a crapshoot. But it's fun to dream what could be.

4 To Watch: If you take away Flowers and Dickson who are already 'star's or on their way, my 4 are Poona and Dissley are the best two prospects that we have coming out of last year. DJ and John Ursua, from UH! Go Warriors - same type as Edelman and other inside receivers. I just have a feeling he makes the team with a very crowded receiver room.

[RiverDog]

I love this time of year. Everyone of our draft picks has 'potential' and they were all steals at the draft. While we'd like to compare him to other HOF receivers before his first practice in pads, Metcalf was passed on by 59 other teams, including a couple times by the Seahawks... is he the diamond in the rough or just another 6' 4" 220lb kid who can't run routes and drops passes, which was his MO of why he dropped from the top 10 into the 60's. it wasn't drugs or DV or an arrest, which makes up most of these stories, either. I HOPE I'M WRONG, TOO. HOF? Maybe... you never know.

Arizona got the steal of the draft a couple years ago with a pot-head Ndemche (sp) - he was supposed to be great, he doesn't start and doesn't play much.
Why? It's called a crap-shoot. The whole NFL draft is a crapshoot. But it's fun to dream what could be.

4 To Watch: If you take away Flowers and Dickson who are already 'star's or on their way, my 4 are Poona and Dissley are the best two prospects that we have coming out of last year. DJ and John Ursua, from UH! Go Warriors - same type as Edelman and other inside receivers. I just have a feeling he makes the team with a very crowded receiver room.

I hear ya about Metcalf. I have concerns that the guy could become on of those WR headaches. Who in their right mind would show up at his first interview with his new HC shirtless? Rookies need to show a little humility. But his potential is off the charts.

As far as my excitement level goes, this time of year is pretty boring. I got so burned out on all the rosy reports from some of our beat reporters during the day that it soured my appetite for training camps. I'll occupy myself with other stuff before I'll turn into a training camp junkie.

I was going to mention Flowers but like you said, he already seems to have arrived as a solid starter. I was thinking more of players that are in search of a starting position or a role to play.

[Hawktawk]

I love this time of year. Everyone of our draft picks has 'potential' and they were all steals at the draft. While we'd like to compare him to other HOF receivers before his first practice in pads, Metcalf was passed on by 59 other teams, including a couple times by the Seahawks... is he the diamond in the rough or just another 6' 4" 220lb kid who can't run routes and drops passes, which was his MO of why he dropped from the top 10 into the 60's. it wasn't drugs or DV or an arrest, which makes up most of these stories, either. I HOPE I'M WRONG, TOO. HOF? Maybe... you never know.

Arizona got the steal of the draft a couple years ago with a pot-head Ndemche (sp) - he was supposed to be great, he doesn't start and doesn't play much.
Why? It's called a crap-shoot. The whole NFL draft is a crapshoot. But it's fun to dream what could be.

4 To Watch: If you take away Flowers and Dickson who are already 'star's or on their way, my 4 are Poona and Dissley are the best two prospects that we have coming out of last year. DJ and John Ursua, from UH! Go Warriors - same type as Edelman and other inside receivers. I just have a feeling he makes the team with a very crowded receiver room.

Not to cast aspersions, not accusing and hoping this is way off base but There just aren't many 6'3" 225 lb men who have basically 0 % body fat, pipes like a weightlifter and run 4.3 in the 40.

I hope as Holmgren said so famously of Shawn Springs that the guy isn't taking "aspirin". Maybe it was the neck injury or something, some unknown except to scouts attitude issue but why did a guy projected as top 10 go last pick of the second? I hope hes the next coming of Julio Jones, Mega tron or Micheal Irvin for sure.

[RiverDog]

Not to cast aspersions, not accusing and hoping this is way off base but There just aren't many 6'3" 225 lb men who have basically 0 % body fat, pipes like a weightlifter and run 4.3 in the 40.

I hope as Holmgren said so famously of Shawn Springs that the guy isn't taking "aspirin". Maybe it was the neck injury or something, some unknown except to scouts attitude issue but why did a guy projected as top 10 go last pick of the second? I hope hes the next coming of Julio Jones, Mega tron or Micheal Irvin for sure.

The raps on Metcalf are his route running, game experience, and injury history. He also has shown traits of being somewhat of a diva, his chest baring being one example. Hopefully it's just a maturity issue and becoming a professional cures him of that tendency.

[idhawkman]

I'm really excited to see how well Dissly returns. He could be a game changer for sure.

[mykc14]

The raps on Metcalf are his route running, game experience, and injury history. He also has shown traits of being somewhat of a diva, his chest baring being one example. Hopefully it's just a maturity issue and becoming a professional cures him of that tendency.

I’m definitely not going to spend a lot of time defending Metcalf. My expectations for him, especially in year one, is lower than most but I don’t know where you keep coming up with the Diva talk, River, especially using him taking his shirt off to meet PC as an example. He didn’t plan on doing that and was talked into it by a scout. IMO his legitimate knocks are:

Route running- he only ran a few routes at Ole Miss (there are many who believe this was due to scheme and not ability. I have seen video of him running different routes and he seems fine, IMO).

Along with his route running was his agility (or lack there of)- nowhere is this more obvious than his 3-cone and 20- yard shuffle times which were really really bad.

Drops- there are multiple examples of him dropping very catchable passes in college.

Injury- especially the scary neck injury. I know he’s been cleared to play football, but I still worry about this. He hasn’t taken a real hit since the injury.

But of all his supposed knocks being a Diva is not one of them. You should check our this article:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/04/17/nfl-d ... ississippi

Here’s a quote from Metcalf as he’s discussing why he almost always declines to take his shirt off:

“I don’t like to show off my body like that,” says the 20-year-old Metcalf. “I’m going to have a wife one day, and she's going to be like, ‘Why are all these pictures of you on the Internet shirtless? What were you trying to do?' I don’t want that question to pop up or anything like that. Or for somebody to think, Oh he’s cocky about his body. None of that.”

[NorthHawk]

A 20 year old kid can be quite gullible at times, so I gave him a break and thought he we just trying to be funny.
It was really harmless after all.

As far a s route running goes, I don't think it's much of a big deal early in his career. He can do a lot of damage
running just 4 routes. There's a video comparison of him to Calvin Johnson which makes that case and Johnson
was successful. DK's value will be to go deep and open up the underneath for the other WRs. All it takes is a
big play early and that threat will be ingrained in the opposing Defenses for the rest of the year.

For those that haven't seen it, here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9EAnLHj2v4
This guy might be completely wrong in his comparison, but there are a lot of similarities.

[RiverDog]

I’m definitely not going to spend a lot of time defending Metcalf. My expectations for him, especially in year one, is lower than most but I don’t know where you keep coming up with the Diva talk, River, especially using him taking his shirt off to meet PC as an example.

One area I do get a little concerned with is he (Metcalf) does show traits of being a "diva" receiver. We have recently seen teams be less accepting of players that can be just as detrimental to their team as helpful. Antonio Brown is one of the most productive receivers in football, yet tantrums are rumored to have him on the trade block, which was also reportedly the case with Odell Beckham Jr. this past off-season. I’m not saying that Metcalf has been anywhere near that sort of distraction, but there are signs that he let's his emotions get the best of him.

https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Draft-Scou ... etcalf.asp

I do admit to having a bias against wide receivers when it comes to the diva stuff. There's something about that position that attracts and/or creates a "me first" personality in them, which is my excuse for the shirt baring incident causing my radar to pop up.

Going through the scouting reports, I also saw a lot of concern about dropped passes and a lack of concentration, that he didn't "sell" routes, etc. Hopefully he does as much work on the art of being an NFL WR as he has on his body building.

[idhawkman]

I thought I saw a video post by PC after some of the OTAs where he said he was pleased with Metcalf and that his route tree was thorough and full. Maybe I misunderstood it or what else would we expect PC to say, right?

[RiverDog]

I thought I saw a video post by PC after some of the OTAs where he said he was pleased with Metcalf and that his route tree was thorough and full. Maybe I misunderstood it or what else would we expect PC to say, right?

Yea, Pete can be full of more chit than a Christmas turkey, especially this time of year when there isn't a lot of tangible information for him to comment on. Here's something he said recently about Metcalf:

I then asked Carroll where Metcalf’s route understanding is compared to where the Seahawks are going to need it to be.
“He’s been coached up well; he had a tremendous offseason working with Jerry Sullivan, one of the great receiver coaches in the history of the NFL. And I’m not taking anything away from where he was. I just know what we’re seeing right now. We’re seeing the guy work really hard at it, getting down and getting in and out of his breaks and stuff. Yeah, he looks like he’s ready to compete.”

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2019 ... you-think/

There's more in that article that suggests Metcalf's perceived weakness in route running might be overblown.

[idhawkman]

This time of year it is all posturing but then again, isn't that the case all year round?

Don't want to tell the other teams your weaknesses so they can exploit them. Because I'm the eternal homer for the Seahaws though, I'm hoping he is as good as these recent reports. So for me, for right now, this is good news. We'll have to wait and see in the preseason if it was bluster or fact. Go Hawks!!!

[RiverDog]

This time of year it is all posturing but then again, isn't that the case all year round?

Don't want to tell the other teams your weaknesses so they can exploit them. Because I'm the eternal homer for the Seahaws though, I'm hoping he is as good as these recent reports. So for me, for right now, this is good news. We'll have to wait and see in the preseason if it was bluster or fact. Go Hawks!!!

That's fine for you, but I like to keep my powder dry for when the rubber hits the road in the regular season games. Even preseason games don't excite me much as the primary objective for teams is player evaluation and keeping all their starters healthy. I've read too many of these glowing, optimistic reports coming out of training camps that it's almost to the point that I don't believe a word of them.

There's plenty of bad news out there, too. One of the negative comments about Metcalf that I read in a blog was that he's not as fast as his 40 time would suggest, that good CB's can match him stride-for-stride. Plus the multiple reports about dropped passes has me concerned. Steve Largent spoiled me a long time ago in that I now expect all NFL WR's to catch passes. The last 4 months of 2004 had to be the most stressful 4 months in my life with DJack and KRob having a contest on who could drop the most catchable passes.

So we'll see. At the very least he'll be a player to watch.

[NorthHawk]

TC and Pre-season are completely different from the regular season.
So for WR's, I look for if they have the athleticism, do they stand out in a good way,
do they have game speed equal to the Combine results, since the Defenses are basic
do they dominate in 1 on ones and if a team uses a simple zone defense, do they
understand what they are supposed to do, and finally, can they catch the ball both
when all alone and in traffic when expected to be hit.

[idhawkman]

That's fine for you, but I like to keep my powder dry for when the rubber hits the road in the regular season games. Even preseason games don't excite me much as the primary objective for teams is player evaluation and keeping all their starters healthy. I've read too many of these glowing, optimistic reports coming out of training camps that it's almost to the point that I don't believe a word of them.

There's plenty of bad news out there, too. One of the negative comments about Metcalf that I read in a blog was that he's not as fast as his 40 time would suggest, that good CB's can match him stride-for-stride. Plus the multiple reports about dropped passes has me concerned. Steve Largent spoiled me a long time ago in that I now expect all NFL WR's to catch passes. The last 4 months of 2004 had to be the most stressful 4 months in my life with DJack and KRob having a contest on who could drop the most catchable passes.

So we'll see. At the very least he'll be a player to watch.

All points accepted that you posted. When I say lets see in pre-season, not all games and not all quarters in those games have the same weight. E.g. the first preseason game is a throw away game completely. The second game is only good "IF" he is on the field in the first quarter when the opposing team's first team is on the field, too. The third game into the 3rd quarter is good and the fourth game is trash, too. Just the fact that he's on the field or not during the meaningful parts of preseason tells me a lot. If he is not on the field at those times tells me that he's not a serious contender for a starting role. If he's being evaluated against the other team's first teams it tells me he's in the running but how he plays will determine if he's as fast, can get open, catch the ball, etc.

Regarding "good CBs" keeping up with him, that is fine. I'm not concerned about that because we also have Lockett and D'arbough. (I probably messed up the spelling of his name). For instance, most defenses don't have 3 "good CBs" on the team. So which one is manned up against one of our recievers? If they leave the so-so DB on Metcalf, watch him run and leave the dude in the dirt. Same for Lockett and D'arbough. One of them is going to be able to run down the field with a better than 50% chance of getting open. Especially if the oline is opening holes for the RB to pound the ball.

That all said, I'm stoked for this year's possibilities and I'm pretty sure you are hopeful even though you are more of a Missouri kind of guy where you say, "SHOW ME"! Right?

[RiverDog]

TC and Pre-season are completely different from the regular season.
So for WR's, I look for if they have the athleticism, do they stand out in a good way,
do they have game speed equal to the Combine results, since the Defenses are basic
do they dominate in 1 on ones and if a team uses a simple zone defense, do they
understand what they are supposed to do, and finally, can they catch the ball both
when all alone and in traffic when expected to be hit.

Agreed with your TC/Preseason analysis. The other thing I'll note is that teams, particularly defenses, do very little, if any, game planning in preseason games. One of the biggest rip-offs of all time is charging the same price for a game ticket to a preseason game vs. regular season. I've gotten to the point that I don't even bother to record them anymore.

One of the other comments I read about Metcalf is that he had a problem getting DB's to bite on a stop-and-go or out-and-up routes, and his agility drills at the combine weren't that impressive. That's a further indication of a lack of diversity in his route running. Metcalf has never been a featured receiver in an offense. His teammate at Ole Miss, AJ Brown, was drafted ahead of him by Tennessee at #51 overall.

[NorthHawk]

A guy that big won't have the agility of a Lockett, and I suspect his responsibilities
won't include many routes that ask him to do things he isn't physically equipped to
do. Rather, I think they will set him up to succeed with what he does best. So I
don't care that much that he lacks one factor to his game.

[RiverDog]

Regarding "good CBs" keeping up with him, that is fine. I'm not concerned about that because we also have Lockett and D'arbough. (I probably messed up the spelling of his name). For instance, most defenses don't have 3 "good CBs" on the team. So which one is manned up against one of our recievers? If they leave the so-so DB on Metcalf, watch him run and leave the dude in the dirt. Same for Lockett and D'arbough. One of them is going to be able to run down the field with a better than 50% chance of getting open. Especially if the oline is opening holes for the RB to pound the ball.

That all said, I'm stoked for this year's possibilities and I'm pretty sure you are hopeful even though you are more of a Missouri kind of guy where you say, "SHOW ME"! Right?

Keep in mind that the comment about "good CB's" keeping up with Metcalf was made about him going up against a good college DB. At the NFL level, Metcalf is going to have to do something else to create separation other than run by DB's, especially if there's any truth in the comments I made above about agility and failing to "sell" DB's on short routes. John Ross was the fastest WR in the 2017 draft and he hasn't done squat.

[idhawkman]

Keep in mind that the comment about "good CB's" keeping up with Metcalf was made about him going up against a good college DB. At the NFL level, Metcalf is going to have to do something else to create separation other than run by DB's, especially if there's any truth in the comments I made above about agility and failing to "sell" DB's on short routes. John Ross was the fastest WR in the 2017 draft and he hasn't done squat.

You may be right but we have to wait and see. I'm pretty sure the scheme and coaching is much different also on the Seahawk's and NFL level than they were at Ole Miss and collegiate level.

[jshawaii22]

From PFF -- in an article about rookie WR's and who landed on the 'best' team for their skills -

Best Route: Go
Widely documented that he lacked a full route tree coming out of Ole Miss, Metcalf’s vertical route tree is something to behold. Within that was his ability on go routes and 100% of his go route receptions ended in a first down or touchdown last year. He averaged 44.7 yards per go route in 2018 and scored three touchdowns on such, coming down with one of the nation’s more impressive highlight reels in the process.

Luckily for Metcalf, he landed in Seattle with a quarterback in Russell Wilson who has been as good as it gets when targeting the go route. Since 2016, Wilson has completed 39 go routes — tied for the most among quarterbacks in that span — for 1,245 yards and 28 big-time throws. His completion percentage of 39.4% on these routes ranks first among the 24 quarterbacks with at least 50 attempts since 2016, and his 103.0 passer rating on these throws ranks third.

[RiverDog]

From PFF -- in an article about rookie WR's and who landed on the 'best' team for their skills -

Best Route: Go
Widely documented that he lacked a full route tree coming out of Ole Miss, Metcalf’s vertical route tree is something to behold. Within that was his ability on go routes and 100% of his go route receptions ended in a first down or touchdown last year. He averaged 44.7 yards per go route in 2018 and scored three touchdowns on such, coming down with one of the nation’s more impressive highlight reels in the process.

Luckily for Metcalf, he landed in Seattle with a quarterback in Russell Wilson who has been as good as it gets when targeting the go route. Since 2016, Wilson has completed 39 go routes — tied for the most among quarterbacks in that span — for 1,245 yards and 28 big-time throws. His completion percentage of 39.4% on these routes ranks first among the 24 quarterbacks with at least 50 attempts since 2016, and his 103.0 passer rating on these throws ranks third.

Good info, JS.

The only problem is that Metcalf's body of work at Ole Miss wasn't very complete. He played in just 21 games over 3 years, and no 'big' games like a bowl or conference championship:

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/pl ... 1/gamelog/

I'm sure that those skimpy game logs were one of the primary reasons why he fell so far in the draft.

[NorthHawk]

I've always maintained the Draft is about selecting potential.
There's a risk/reward calculation for every pick, and I think that at
pick #64 the needle pointed firmly at the reward side, and in some
minds an extreme reward.

We'll see how it all plays out.

[c_hawkbob]

I've always maintained the Draft is about selecting potential.
There's a risk/reward calculation for every pick, and I think that at
pick #64 the needle pointed firmly at the reward side, and in some
minds an extreme reward.

We'll see how it all plays out.

He's a top 10 talent with a late round body of work. By almost all accounts a steal at the bottom of the second. I think he was the pick of the draft.

[RiverDog]

I've always maintained the Draft is about selecting potential.
There's a risk/reward calculation for every pick, and I think that at
pick #64 the needle pointed firmly at the reward side, and in some
minds an extreme reward.

We'll see how it all plays out.

He's (Metcalf) a top 10 talent with a late round body of work. By almost all accounts a steal at the bottom of the second. I think he was the pick of the draft.

He could be the steal of the draft.

IMO this was a really good selection, a low risk, high reward type of decision, so I don't want any of my 'negative' comments to reflect otherwise. It's just that we really need to be cautious of his prospects as he's a top 10 talent that slipped all the way to #64. No raps on PC/JS's drafting if he doesn't pan out, at least none from me.

[NorthHawk]

He should have some idea of what it takes to make it in the NFL with his father being
a Guard at Ole Miss and his grandfather being Terry Metcalf (who was born in Seattle).
But his injury history might be an issue as he also had a broken foot in College.

[RiverDog]

He should have some idea of what it takes to make it in the NFL with his father being
a Guard at Ole Miss and his grandfather being Terry Metcalf (who was born in Seattle).
But his injury history might be an issue as he also had a broken foot in College.

The biggest concern is the neck injury that ended his senior season.

On a side note, I saw Terry Metcalf play football when he was at Everett Community College. Washington used to have a very robust community college football league.

[NorthHawk]

The neck injury was probably a factor on some teams boards and contributed
to his slide in the draft.
Let's hope he's fully recovered and has a long career.