Presidential Address Tonight

[idhawkman]

Do you think he makes the case for the border wall (er... fence, steel slats, whatever it is going to be called)?

I think he lays out the case and sends a shot across the bow of the democrats and 9th circus court about declaring an emergency. I don't think he declares it yet.

[Aseahawkfan]

The salesman will sell the wall. We'll see how it works.

[savvyman]

Hopefully do what should have been done before this

Border security and wall in exchange for path to citizenship for all illegals from south of the border who are here now and can show that they have been productive members of society

This is the best solution

Most everyone I have met who I suspected were here illegally were very decent people

Let them stay and become citizens in exchange for border security

[Hawktawk]

Polls say only 25% favor shutting down the govt to pay for this which would include about 20% of the Trump zombie army. Only 41% favor it at all. This guy had 2 years of total control and couldn’t get this done and now after getting his ass reamed in the midterms it’s a national emergency . The Dems mistake is having Shumer and Pelosi give any response . Let this dude Hoover his rails of adderal and make a complete Jackass of himself without reminding America why they voted for him. Let him trip over his little mushroom all on his own. This is not going to go
Well for DJT.

[Hawktawk]

Good lord this man has the nuclear football . Scary . It’s not about ideology . It’s about sanity and competency . Can u say unstable?

[RiverDog]

I didn't watch the address. The problem is that I can't believe a single word Trump says so there's no sense wasting my time. I'd rather watch "Star Trek" reruns.

[burrrton]

I didn't watch the address. The problem is that I can't believe a single word Trump says so there's no sense wasting my time. I'd rather watch "Star Trek" reruns.

Dude, anybody who willingly sits through an address from *any* POTUS deserves a Purple Heart as far as I'm concerned.

[RiverDog]

Dude, anybody who willingly sits through an address from *any* POTUS deserves a Purple Heart as far as I'm concerned.

Ain't that the truth!

I'm old enough to remember a day and time where the POTUS had a captive audience of 80%+ of adults in the country when JFK addressed the nation regarding the Cuba missile crisis.

But occasionally, I'll listen to a POTUS address, just not this POTUS.

[burrrton]

But occasionally, I'll listen to a POTUS address, just not this POTUS.

Post 9-11? Yeah. Short of that you're a bigger man than I.

[Aseahawkfan]

Good lord this man has the nuclear football . Scary . It’s not about ideology . It’s about sanity and competency . Can u say unstable?

I'd be more worried if you had the nuclear football than Trump. So far the worst war Trump has started is a trade war.

No idea why your think Trump is unstable. The guy has no interest whatsoever in war. Never has, likely never will.

[savvyman]

I'd be more worried if you had the nuclear football than Trump. So far the worst war Trump has started is a trade war.

No idea why your think Trump is unstable. The guy has no interest whatsoever in war. Never has, likely never will.

Trump is Winning the Trade War.

For over 20 years the Chinese have successfully & legally kicked the USA ass in Trade. The crap that we allow the Chinese to do here - The Chinese government would never allow the USA companies to do there.

Trump Tariffs were Brilliant. The Tariffs were placed on Items that are price elastic - China can't pass on this Tariff cost to the American consumers so the Chinese companies have had to eat these Tariffs. This is resulting in 10's of Billions of dollars to the USA treasury each year - all paid for by the Chinese.

#Winning

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-19/china-is-paying-for-most-of-trump-s-trade-war-research-says

Pelosi & Schumer as your leaders? God you baby boomer males are so weak and have seriously messed up so much of this former great country since you were handed the Keys to the Country.

[NorthHawk]

Did you see any of Pelosi and Schumers response?
The optics were hilarious and I couldn't help but think comedies like SNL will make a lot of hay with it.
They looked like wooden figures or puppets just standing there talking.

Trump may eventually win the trade war, but not without some unnecessary collateral damage.
Instead of isolating the US, and creating tensions with traditional allies, he should have put together a unified front
against China to stop its theft of IP and remove access barriers. China would have caved by now, or be close to it if it was the EU,
NAFTA partners, Japan, Korea, and others forming a united front.
It's what the TPP was designed to do - provide a front against China. The US was in a position to lead the agreement and make it
favorable to itself, but DT decided to pull out and go it alone.
China may just be playing the long game. That's always been their strategy, and Trump is a lot about quick wins. That rarely works
out well in the long run.

[RiverDog]

Did you see any of Pelosi and Schumers response?
The optics were hilarious and I couldn't help but think comedies like SNL will make a lot of hay with it.
They looked like wooden figures or puppets just standing there talking.

Trump may eventually win the trade war, but not without some unnecessary collateral damage.
Instead of isolating the US, and creating tensions with traditional allies, he should have put together a unified front
against China to stop its theft of IP and remove access barriers. China would have caved by now, or be close to it if it was the EU,
NAFTA partners, Japan, Korea, and others forming a united front.
It's what the TPP was designed to do - provide a front against China. The US was in a position to lead the agreement and make it
favorable to itself, but DT decided to pull out and go it alone.
China may just be playing the long game. That's always been their strategy, and Trump is a lot about quick wins. That rarely works
out well in the long run.

I didn't see the address or the Democratic response, but I agree with your observations about Pelosi and Schumer. They're almost as comical as DJT.

I also agree with your take on Trump's trade war. I've always maintained that a healthy trade relationship is worth billions in defense dollars as it greatly reduces the threat of military conflict. In other words, if China's economy is dependent on trade with us, they are going to be damn careful not to disturb it.

I'm reminded of an incident early in the Bush 43 administration where a Chinese fighter plane was buzzing one of our spy planes and got too close, initiating a collision and tearing the nose off our plane, of which the pilot and crew had to make an emergency landing in China. The Chinese grabbed the crew and was preparing to hold them hostage, but when Americans started talking about boycotting stores like WalMart that sold Chinese made products and WalMart started thinking about another source for their products, they quickly handed over the crew unharmed. I'm not sure if that would happen under today's circumstances.

Note: The Chinese pilot that crashed his plane into ours had the funniest, most appropriate name for such a person: Wong Whey (sp.)

[idhawkman]

I'm reminded of an incident early in the Bush 43 administration where a Chinese fighter plane was buzzing one of our spy planes and got too close, initiating a collision and tearing the nose off our plane, of which the pilot and crew had to make an emergency landing in China. The Chinese grabbed the crew and was preparing to hold them hostage, but when Americans started talking about boycotting stores like WalMart that sold Chinese made products and WalMart started thinking about another source for their products, they quickly handed over the crew unharmed. I'm not sure if that would happen under today's circumstances.

Note: The Chinese pilot that crashed his plane into ours had the funniest, most appropriate name for such a person: Wong Whey (sp.)

You make me laugh River. You really think people talking about a "protest" outside of Walmart or protesting Walmart in general is what made them give up the plane? Bah-ha-ha-ha-ha!

[RiverDog]

I'm reminded of an incident early in the Bush 43 administration where a Chinese fighter plane was buzzing one of our spy planes and got too close, initiating a collision and tearing the nose off our plane, of which the pilot and crew had to make an emergency landing in China. The Chinese grabbed the crew and was preparing to hold them hostage, but when Americans started talking about boycotting stores like WalMart that sold Chinese made products and WalMart started thinking about another source for their products, they quickly handed over the crew unharmed. I'm not sure if that would happen under today's circumstance.

You make me laugh River. You really think people talking about a "protest" outside of Walmart or protesting Walmart in general is what made them give up the plane? Bah-ha-ha-ha-ha!

It probably wasn't the main cause for their releasing the crew, but It's reasonable to think it might have had some effect on their mindset. They're certainly not going to start screwing with us if they are dependent on us for a good part of their economy.

My point is that there's more reasons than pure economics to maintain a healthy relationship with another country. The root cause for the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor is that we cut off trade with them.

[idhawkman]

It probably wasn't the main cause for their releasing the crew, but It's reasonable to think it might have had some effect on their mindset. They're certainly not going to start screwing with us if they are dependent on us for a good part of their economy.

My point is that there's more reasons than pure economics to maintain a healthy relationship with another country. The root cause for the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor is that we cut off trade with them.

I don't think it had any bearing on them whatsoever. They didn't think we could do anything to their economy thus China 2025. That is until Trump showed them otherwise. Now they are scrambling to keep companies in China, their economy is failing and they are having more problems than carter has pills.

[NorthHawk]

Here's an interesting article about the relationship with China.
I found it a worthwhile read.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/01/07/a- ... has-begun/

[savvyman]

Hopefully do what should have been done before this

Border security and wall in exchange for path to citizenship for all illegals from south of the border who are here now and can show that they have been productive members of society

This is the best solution

Most everyone I have met who I suspected were here illegally were very decent people

Let them stay and become citizens in exchange for border security

Again why not what is written above as a solution?

Border security in exchange for for a path to citizenship for all illegals who are law abiding and working here now?

That a great solution.

Its Humane

And it's the right thing. Most Illegals I have encountered are great people. Hard working and kind. I would gladly trade a whole bunch of entitled white people to Latin America for each one of them.

[savvyman]

Did you see any of Pelosi and Schumers response?
The optics were hilarious and I couldn't help but think comedies like SNL will make a lot of hay with it.
They looked like wooden figures or puppets just standing there talking.

Trump may eventually win the trade war, but not without some unnecessary collateral damage.
Instead of isolating the US, and creating tensions with traditional allies, he should have put together a unified front
against China to stop its theft of IP and remove access barriers. China would have caved by now, or be close to it if it was the EU,
NAFTA partners, Japan, Korea, and others forming a united front.
It's what the TPP was designed to do - provide a front against China. The US was in a position to lead the agreement and make it
favorable to itself, but DT decided to pull out and go it alone.
China may just be playing the long game. That's always been their strategy, and Trump is a lot about quick wins. That rarely works
out well in the long run.

The thing is these other countries would not participate with President Trump. Their Ruling class is also benefiting from the relationship with China at the expense of their bottom 90% of the population.

[RiverDog]

Hopefully do what should have been done before this

Border security and wall in exchange for path to citizenship for all illegals from south of the border who are here now and can show that they have been productive members of society

This is the best solution

Most everyone I have met who I suspected were here illegally were very decent people

Let them stay and become citizens in exchange for border security

Again why not what is written above as a solution?

Border security in exchange for for a path to citizenship for all illegals who are law abiding and working here now?

That a great solution.

Its Humane

And it's the right thing. Most Illegals I have encountered are great people. Hard working and kind. I would gladly trade a whole bunch of entitled white people to Latin America for each one of them.

It depends on what you mean by "border security." If you mean erecting a huge, $25 billion, 20 foot high wall, then no, I do not agree. But if it means other, less expensive methods of securing the border, ie electronic sensing devices, drones, aerial surveillance, more emphasis on ports of entry where most terrorists and drug smugglers pass through, cooperating with other nations to register and track known criminals, then yes, I will agree.

But I doubt that DJT would agree with giving all illegals a path to citizenship. He had to be brought kicking and screaming to accept a pathway for children of illegals, so it's a real stretch to think that he'd give a pathway to citizenship for all illegals.

[Hawktawk]

I'd be more worried if you had the nuclear football than Trump. So far the worst war Trump has started is a trade war.

No idea why your think Trump is unstable. The guy has no interest whatsoever in war. Never has, likely never will.

I don't want the football, thanks

Let me rephrase my comments. I've also come to believe Trump would not order a nuclear strike, and even if he did the generals would disobey him. Sort of like Gary Cohn taking a bill off his desk that would have been an economic catastrophe to keep him from signing it and he NEVER NOTICED.

The man definitely isn't fit to be commander in chief. He could lose WWIII. His shriveled balls are in Putin's briefcase.

As for him being unstable are you kidding me? Have you read the 2 AM tweets getting more and more bizarre? The pathological remorseless lying? Good lord man just look in his eyes, the perpetual scowl, the sunken raccoon eyes.

Go back and google any trump speech from 20 years ago and compare it to his speech syntax and appearance now.I dare you.He was always a punk who needed his ass kicked but he was fluid, conversational, smooth. Now he talks in monotone as he reads off the teleprompter he ridiculed Obama for.

It's not just normal aging. his brain is way ahead of his body. I wasn't the "anonymous " who wrote the letter to the NYT saying there was discussion very early in the administration of invoking the 25th amendment.Rosenstein reportedly offered up the same opinion according to the WAPO.
How a bright guy like you can conclude he's stable is a mystery.

[RiverDog]

It isn't Trump's mental stability that's the issue. It's his management style and decision making that bothers me most...that is in addition to his credibility and trustworthiness.

The government shutdown is a typical example. One night, he's prepared to sign a compromise bill to prevent a shutdown then the next morning, he sees Ann Colter and Rush Limbaugh calling him out over it and suddenly changes his mind. He makes decisions on the spur of the moment and by the seat of his pants.

I realize you were directing your comments to ASF, but I don't think anyone is claiming that Trump is stable, just that some of us don't see it the same way as you apparently do, ie that he is without a doubt certifiably insane. There's other explanations for behavior that others might consider odd or unorthodox besides mental instability.

[Aseahawkfan]

The main reason his behavior is considered unstable is because that is the narrative the media is selling. And anti-Trump folks like hawktawk lap it up because they hate him so much. They don't have any real evidence based on his history. In fact, Trump seems like he has very specific ideas and goals that he stated clearly during his campaign and he is pushing to get them done, often against many members of his party. That is nothing new. Trump wasn't going to two the Republican line or appease the Democrats. He's doing what he said he would do. Only folks like hawktawk want to make it seem otherwise.

As someone that has been following Trump for years, this is Trump as he has always been. All these folks coming out of the woodwork to attack him now that he is president seem like nothing but a bunch of sour grapes participating in the media narrative questioning his fitness.

I don't care for the man as president, but I'm not ever going to be an extremist like hawktawk buying into lies and media trash narratives because I want to confirm my bias.

[Aseahawkfan]

Let me rephrase my comments. I've also come to believe Trump would not order a nuclear strike, and even if he did the generals would disobey him. Sort of like Gary Cohn taking a bill off his desk that would have been an economic catastrophe to keep him from signing it and he NEVER NOTICED.

The man definitely isn't fit to be commander in chief. He could lose WWIII. His shriveled balls are in Putin's briefcase.

As for him being unstable are you kidding me? Have you read the 2 AM tweets getting more and more bizarre? The pathological remorseless lying? Good lord man just look in his eyes, the perpetual scowl, the sunken raccoon eyes.

Go back and google any trump speech from 20 years ago and compare it to his speech syntax and appearance now.I dare you.He was always a punk who needed his ass kicked but he was fluid, conversational, smooth. Now he talks in monotone as he reads off the teleprompter he ridiculed Obama for.

It's not just normal aging. his brain is way ahead of his body. I wasn't the "anonymous " who wrote the letter to the NYT saying there was discussion very early in the administration of invoking the 25th amendment.Rosenstein reportedly offered up the same opinion according to the WAPO.
How a bright guy like you can conclude he's stable is a mystery.

Sorry man, you're not credible. I don't trust anything you say. You are not particularly rational. You're agenda drive. You buy every lie the media sells you as long as it supports what you believe. You are the people I fear more than I fear by Trump by a huge margin. You're like all the deranged zealots I see out there I hope never actually act on the insane ideas they believe in.

[burrrton]

And anti-Trump folks like hawktawk lap it up because they hate him so much.

Yeah, and I'm not sure where this visceral hate came from. I think he's a complete buffoon, kind of an @sshole, thin-skinned, and not very bright (or at least doesn't think before acting, which admittedly could be dangerous in the wrong circumstances). I've never liked him sitting in the oval office.

But that was clear from the first season of Apprentice, and it sure as h3ll doesn't get me to "hate" and "evil".

There's some other psychological mechanism at work with the people who crap the bed every time he tweets something they don't like. I'm not sure what it is, but it's there, and it's weird and unsettling.

[RiverDog]

And anti-Trump folks like hawktawk lap it up because they hate him so much.

Yeah, and I'm not sure where this visceral hate came from. I think he's a complete buffoon, kind of an @sshole, thin-skinned, and not very bright (or at least doesn't think before acting, which admittedly could be dangerous in the wrong circumstances). I've never liked him sitting in the oval office.

But that was clear from the first season of Apprentice, and it sure as h3ll doesn't get me to "hate" and "evil".

There's some other psychological mechanism at work with the people who crap the bed every time he tweets something they don't like. I'm not sure what it is, but it's there, and it's weird and unsettling.

You're not? DJT is the most divisive POTUS I've known in my lifetime. How many other POTUS nominees started chants anywhere close to the "Lock her up!" mantra in referring to their opponent in a general election? He's a shock jock politician, a lightning rod with no equal. His most ardent supports admit that this attribute is exactly why they like him and are able to overlook or rationalize Trump's many, many personal flaws.

To make matters worse, his opponent in the general election, HRC, wasn't a heck of a lot better, basing nearly all of her campaign on attacking Trump rather than articulating what her plan for the country was. Heck, she's still using inflammatory rhetoric, her latest salvo calling Trump supporters "undesirables." The two of them combined bring out the worst in people that live on both margins of the political spectrum.

The visceral hate you refer to is a very predictable byproduct of a campaign that featured the two candidates with the biggest negatives ever (#3 is a good 15% below #2 HRC) since they started measuring them, is one of the reasons why I think Trump's an extremely poor leader, and precisely why I didn't vote for either one of them.

You and me may not have been sucked into the "hate and evil" emotions that others have demonstrated, but being the intelligent guy you represent yourself as, surely you can understand how others could have been so influenced.

[burrrton]

You and me may not have been sucked into the "hate and evil" emotions that others have demonstrated, but being the intelligent guy you represent yourself as, surely you can understand how others could have been so influenced.

I absolutely can *not*.

How any rational person (which may be the key, to be honest) can go from "divisive @sshole" to "EVIL INCARNATE LITERALLY HITLER I WISH HE WAS DEAD" should be beyond the grasp of everyone.

[RiverDog]

You and me may not have been sucked into the "hate and evil" emotions that others have demonstrated, but being the intelligent guy you represent yourself as, surely you can understand how others could have been so influenced.

I absolutely can *not*.

Neither can I. But you don't have to go there yourself to understand what motivates others.

How any rational person (which may be the key, to be honest) can go from "divisive @sshole" to "EVIL INCARNATE LITERALLY HITLER I WISH HE WAS DEAD" should be beyond the grasp of everyone.

You're right, that is the key. Clearly there's a lot of people on both sides of the spectrum that do not think rationally when the subject is politics, including those that are otherwise clear thinking, rational individuals.

[c_hawkbob]

"EVIL INCARNATE LITERALLY HITLER I WISH HE WAS DEAD" is no more an actual position of 90% of the posters here than "THE GREATEST PRESIDENT IN HISTORY, LITERALLY CHRIST REINCARNATE" is.

Assuming that everyone that doesn't agree with you has the most extreme opposite position is a roadblock to any real discussion.

[burrrton]

You yourself compared his actions to the Holocaust and others have outright stated they were rooting for his demise, as well as the rest, almost verbatim.

It's a bit hyperbolic, but not far from the mark.

Assuming that everyone that doesn't agree with you has the most extreme opposite position is a roadblock to any real discussion.

If we could stick to reality a little more closely, you'd find we disagree on a lot less than you think.

[Aseahawkfan]

I won't hide it. I don't like Trump. But I think most that don't care for him can see that he is under near constant attack by most of the media and nation for almost everything he does.

Hawktawk is a prime example of an unhinged political zealot no one takes seriously but others like him. When a moderate or someone mildy thinking one way or the other about Trump reads something from someone like Hawktawk, they just think this guy is a bigger lunatic than I've ever seen from Trump. I'm outta here.

The reality is I understand that hawktawk doesn't have the ability to see his own stance looks far more crazy than anything out of Trump's mouth. It's pure nutso hyperbole that I don't think he can stop himself from posting. I think he sits in his house truly believing what he writes absent any need for actual evidence other than whatever he reads to continue developing his crazy belief that "Trump is the most evil man in history" and other such blah-blah-blah ramblings.

At this point absent some smoking gun, I'd rather just let him finish his term and be done with him. If he's as bad as people say he is, he shouldn't have any chance at winning re-election. I won't vote for him unless he pulls all the troops home by re-election time and halts all military deployment to foreign lands run by dictators and scum. I doubt he'll be able to do that given both Republicans and Democrats love to use our military to meddle in world affairs.

[RiverDog]

I won't hide it. I don't like Trump. But I think most that don't care for him can see that he is under near constant attack by most of the media and nation for almost everything he does.

So you're feeling sorry for poor Donald because he's under near constant attack by most of the media? That's exactly the emotion that he's counting on to get his supporters to the polls, and it's one of the big reasons why he was able to beat Hillary. He encourages attacks on him. He wants to play the victim as it incites his base. Hillary Clinton's nearly non stop attacks on him played right into Trump's hand.

Hawktawk is a prime example of an unhinged political zealot no one takes seriously but others like him. When a moderate or someone mildy thinking one way or the other about Trump reads something from someone like Hawktawk, they just think this guy is a bigger lunatic than I've ever seen from Trump. I'm outta here.

The reality is I understand that hawktawk doesn't have the ability to see his own stance looks far more crazy than anything out of Trump's mouth. It's pure nutso hyperbole that I don't think he can stop himself from posting. I think he sits in his house truly believing what he writes absent any need for actual evidence other than whatever he reads to continue developing his crazy belief that "Trump is the most evil man in history" and other such blah-blah-blah ramblings.

Just let him rant. So long as he doesn't start calling other posters names, then who cares?

At this point absent some smoking gun, I'd rather just let him finish his term and be done with him. If he's as bad as people say he is, he shouldn't have any chance at winning re-election.

That's pretty much my take, too. My preference is to see him ousted by vote in November of 2020. The only possible scenerio that I can envision myself voting for him would be in the event that we are at war.

[Aseahawkfan]

So you're feeling sorry for poor Donald because he's under near constant attack by most of the media? That's exactly the emotion that he's counting on to get his supporters to the polls, and it's one of the big reasons why he was able to beat Hillary. He encourages attacks on him. He wants to play the victim as it incites his base. Hillary Clinton's nearly non stop attacks on him played right into Trump's hand.

Stating fact is not feeling sorry for him. Whether Trump is causing it to use it or the media is doing it voluntarily, it's happening. It clouds out almost all other types of political discussion. The psychotic talk by people like hawktawk and the media just creates this toxic environment for any legitimate political discussion and any real work getting done.

Just let him rant. So long as he doesn't start calling other posters names, then who cares?

I'm still going call out hyperbolic foolishness when I see it. It's tiresome.

I've pretty much given up on having a competent president in line with my values in my lifetime. The Dems and Republicans have sold us out. We're so involved in foreign affairs and other nations at all levels of society that we no longer consider our values or our nation when governing. Both sides change their tunes so often when it suits them that you can't really trust them to make good decisions unless it somehow garners them votes or pleases their base. It's all mucked up. Fortunately the capitalism consumer-producer relationship keeps us living in a good environment because the symbiotic relationship requires it.

[RiverDog]

Stating fact is not feeling sorry for him. Whether Trump is causing it to use it or the media is doing it voluntarily, it's happening. It clouds out almost all other types of political discussion. The psychotic talk by people like hawktawk and the media just creates this toxic environment for any legitimate political discussion and any real work getting done.

The 'toxic environment' is a 50/50 proposition. Trump and his supporters are no more pure than guys like Hawktalk. If Trump would cease with the patently false statements and just stay the hell off Twitter, he'd stop half of the criticism in its tracks. But IMO he doesn't want it to stop. He likes playing the victim as it incites his base.

I've pretty much given up on having a competent president in line with my values in my lifetime. The Dems and Republicans have sold us out. We're so involved in foreign affairs and other nations at all levels of society that we no longer consider our values or our nation when governing. Both sides change their tunes so often when it suits them that you can't really trust them to make good decisions unless it somehow garners them votes or pleases their base. It's all mucked up. Fortunately the capitalism consumer-producer relationship keeps us living in a good environment because the symbiotic relationship requires it.

I've never seen any serious POTUS candidate who's values are completely in line with mine. Except for this past election, I end up voting for the lesser of two evils.

[savvyman]

Your all a bunch of idiots

Trump has been single handily fighting for the bottom 95% of americans who have been sold out by both the POS democrats and republicans over the past 20 years.

I have the charts to show this you idiots

So you gather your information from ruling class controlled MSM and late night television for your opinions?

Just get out of the way and hand the keys to the country to the Millennials. They get it. You weak baby boomer males fucked it all up. Just get out of the way and stop with your stupid opinions.

[burrrton]

Your all a bunch of idiots

I love irony.

[Aseahawkfan]

The 'toxic environment' is a 50/50 proposition. Trump and his supporters are no more pure than guys like Hawktalk. If Trump would cease with the patently false statements and just stay the hell off Twitter, he'd stop half of the criticism in its tracks. But IMO he doesn't want it to stop. He likes playing the victim as it incites his base.

Point out where I said otherwise? If Trump ceased, nothing would change. They hate him. They will always hate him. I watched similar polarizing talk during Bush Jr. and he wasn't on Twitter and didn't make many comments. The smarmy left wing media made fun of every mistake during a speech and questioned everything he did. The toxic political environment is a two way street. Trump is just fueling it more than past presidents and receiving the attacks the worst because of it.

Trump's not business as usual. He wants to do things the way thinks they should be done. He's not going to back down from a fight whether its with the Dems or his party. He doesn't care. I'm tired of the whole thing. It's been happening since back in Clinton and this is the apex of the behavior both sides have been fueling.

I've never seen any serious POTUS candidate who's values are completely in line with mine. Except for this past election, I end up voting for the lesser of two evils.

Where does the lesser of two evils get us? This current crappy environment? How do you like sending billions of dollars overseas to pay off dictators and other such scum with your tax money? Or give handouts to drug addicts and people that don't take good are of their children? Fun for you? Lesser of two evil doesn't work for me. This nation makes too many excuses for all the bad behavior by these folks in government using our tax money. It's like we're paying to be sick and corrupt. I'm tired of giving these clowns my money to do things with I don't agree with that leads either to the murder of people using our military power or the coddling of scumbag drug addicts and low character people.

[Aseahawkfan]

Your all a bunch of idiots

Trump has been single handily fighting for the bottom 95% of americans who have been sold out by both the POS democrats and republicans over the past 20 years.

I have the charts to show this you idiots

So you gather your information from ruling class controlled MSM and late night television for your opinions?

Just get out of the way and hand the keys to the country to the Millennials. They get it. You weak baby boomer males fucked it all up. Just get out of the way and stop with your stupid opinions.

Why are you still here? "Ruling class"? And Trump isn't part of the "ruling class"? What are you even talking about? What are you even talking about bottom 95%? Are you one of those brain-washed idiots that think having wealth means your oppressed? You want to become a giant mass of poor people all being poor together because in your mind wealth-building makes you part of the ruling class? How dumb can you get with this type of thinking? I can't even fathom the level of dumb you express with your "Ruling class" and fighting for the lower 95%? Like all the 5% of wealthy people are somehow working to oppress everyone else rather than the lower 95% are a bunch of drinking, smoking, overspending, lazy will simply do it all again to make themselves poor anyways folks. Give it a rest. Even in Communism there is a small group of high performers that will govern while the lower 95% will continue to whine with their only answer being to tear things apart in a fit of rage than look again to some "ruling class" group to provide them a means to survive again. When has it been any different? Even the Revolutionary and Civil War were fueled by a minority driving the human herd to get something done.

What will your pathetic charts show? Let's see your tinfoil hat charts.

[RiverDog]

Where does the lesser of two evils get us?

Oh, I agree with you. I just don't like the idea of not voting, which is the only other option I have. In 2016, I voted for Gary Johnson, the Libertarian candidate as the two major parties gave us the absolute worst two choices we've been given since I started voting in 1972. I'm ripe for a 3rd party if one could ever get any traction.

[Aseahawkfan]

Oh, I agree with you. I just don't like the idea of not voting, which is the only other option I have. In 2016, I voted for Gary Johnson, the Libertarian candidate as the two major parties gave us the absolute worst two choices we've been given since I started voting in 1972. I'm ripe for a 3rd party if one could ever get any traction.

I continue to vote as well even though I mostly put no confidence. i would almost at this point prefer to vote for resumes than philosophies. Our philosophy should be set. Unfortunately our politicians have interpreted Democracy as offering handouts for votes and pursuing control of the world with our tax money on behalf of our business community. It's an unfortunate reality Americans don't seem to realize because too many of the folks that think tax money is a handout system have too much voting power.