NorthHawk wrote:From PFT
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... next-week/
Copying and pasting from the article because I can do that.
"Browner will contend that the NFL continued to subject him to periodic drug testing after he was cut by the Denver Broncos in 2006. Browner also will contend that the NFL notified him of those tests at an address where he no longer resided, and that the NFLPA never informed him of the mounting penalties and suspensions arising from his failure to submit to testing during the five years after he was cut by the Broncos and returned to the NFL with the Seattle Seahawks."
I thought if a player misses a specified number of tests they are automatically suspended. If not, why would they take the tests?
If so, how did he get back into the league?
c_hawkbob wrote:They can drag it out but BB wins a mondo settlement in the end.
Anthony wrote:c_hawkbob wrote:They can drag it out but BB wins a mondo settlement in the end.
Yea they will drag it out, BB will win big, but in the end he will never play FB in the NFL again, unless the injunction happens, and even them there is no guarantee any team will give him a chance. To NFL maybe it is a win as long as he does not play.
Hawktawk wrote:I just want to know how Seattle could have 2 DBs suspended during the playoff push 2 years in a row and the gangster from NE never got tested even though it has been reported he was using PCP as well as smoking multiple cigar wraps after games. Oh yeah he also may have killed at least 3 people. This NFL drug witch hunt is a joke. You go Brandon.
jshawaii22 wrote:Distant, you maybe on the right track. Union/Employer Labor law seems to trump everything else. This may come down to the language in the Labor Agreement between the NFL and the NLFPA that was in place when he first failed the first test in Denver. If the labor agreement's language put it on the player to notify the NFL if they move and if the labor agreement puts it on the player to keep themselves informed by checking in with the NFL "testing" people, this could be the NFL's out. Was it up to the league to 'find' Brandon or up to Brandon to keep the league informed.
js
Eaglehawk wrote:Hawktawk wrote:I just want to know how Seattle could have 2 DBs suspended during the playoff push 2 years in a row and the gangster from NE never got tested even though it has been reported he was using PCP as well as smoking multiple cigar wraps after games. Oh yeah he also may have killed at least 3 people. This NFL drug witch hunt is a joke. You go Brandon.
Gangsters respect other gangsters.
Issues in the case:
1. Why was Browner not actively in the NFL required to take drug tests anyway? Were other NFL players who were similarly situated to Browner required to take tests.
2. DId NFL have an affirmative duty to call Browner if his address was incorrect, or was it on Browner? Would the NFL have reason to even know that his address was incorrect. Did they send the mails certified return receipt requested? If so, then who signed? Regular mail for something so important does not cut it in my opinion. (Advantage Browner).
3. Notice. This is probably the most important part of the case. All kinds of notice issues, from informing Browner what level he was on, to warnings issued by mail that he never received, to welcome letters from the NFL and the league that, probably contained no notice as to his precarious position if he reoffended. etc.
Not all inclusive of course, but off the top of my head. Browner has a good case, but its not a slam dunk by any means.
Anthony wrote:Eaglehawk wrote:Hawktawk wrote:I just want to know how Seattle could have 2 DBs suspended during the playoff push 2 years in a row and the gangster from NE never got tested even though it has been reported he was using PCP as well as smoking multiple cigar wraps after games. Oh yeah he also may have killed at least 3 people. This NFL drug witch hunt is a joke. You go Brandon.
Gangsters respect other gangsters.
Issues in the case:
1. Why was Browner not actively in the NFL required to take drug tests anyway? Were other NFL players who were similarly situated to Browner required to take tests.
2. DId NFL have an affirmative duty to call Browner if his address was incorrect, or was it on Browner? Would the NFL have reason to even know that his address was incorrect. Did they send the mails certified return receipt requested? If so, then who signed? Regular mail for something so important does not cut it in my opinion. (Advantage Browner).
3. Notice. This is probably the most important part of the case. All kinds of notice issues, from informing Browner what level he was on, to warnings issued by mail that he never received, to welcome letters from the NFL and the league that, probably contained no notice as to his precarious position if he reoffended. etc.
Not all inclusive of course, but off the top of my head. Browner has a good case, but its not a slam dunk by any means.
He was playing in the CFL how hard would it have been to google him? Answer not very, and again if they have not had every player not playing in the NFL any longer submit to drug tests despite not being in the NFL they are screwed. I am betting there have been others that were not contacted. Interestingly if you retire I bet they no longer test you, but you can un retire and then they start testing you again, if true they are screwed. And again why once he was back in the NFl did no one notify him or the Hawks his status? There are way o any questions and way to many dropped balls for the NFL to have a chance.
Distant Relative wrote:I wonder if he was still paying NFL union dues while playing in Canada. Also, I wonder if Browner informed that NFL that he no longer lived at that address?
Not sure how it works in the NFL but for my Carpenters union, I can take time off if I wanted to for what ever reason and continue to pay my dues to keep me a "active" member in good standing. For example, if I were fired by a contractor and there was no work for me for what ever reason I could continue to pay my dues to the Carpenters union while working for another company. During that time if my name was drawn for a random drug test by the Carpenters I would have to go take it if I wanted to stay a member in good standing. FYI this never happened to me.
This will be interesting to see how it plays out.
RiverDog wrote:Distant Relative wrote:I wonder if he was still paying NFL union dues while playing in Canada. Also, I wonder if Browner informed that NFL that he no longer lived at that address?
Not sure how it works in the NFL but for my Carpenters union, I can take time off if I wanted to for what ever reason and continue to pay my dues to keep me a "active" member in good standing. For example, if I were fired by a contractor and there was no work for me for what ever reason I could continue to pay my dues to the Carpenters union while working for another company. During that time if my name was drawn for a random drug test by the Carpenters I would have to go take it if I wanted to stay a member in good standing. FYI this never happened to me.
This will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Nice post, DR. Those are very relevant points. The article noted that courts tend to yield to agreements made in the collective bargaining process. But I don't know why Browner would remain in the NFLPA and continue to pay dues while he was playing in the CFL.
As the article stated, courts have the tendency to side with what ever is outlined in a collective bargaining agreement, so it may not be as much of a slam dunk case for Browner as most are suggesting. I have a hard time believing that the NFL would take such drastic action against Browner if it had any chance of opening themselves up to a mega lawsuit like this.
RiverDog wrote:Nice post, DR. Those are very relevant points. The article noted that courts tend to yield to agreements made in the collective bargaining process. But I don't know why Browner would remain in the NFLPA and continue to pay dues while he was playing in the CFL.
As the article stated, courts have the tendency to side with what ever is outlined in a collective bargaining agreement, so it may not be as much of a slam dunk case for Browner as most are suggesting. I have a hard time believing that the NFL would take such drastic action against Browner if it had any chance of opening themselves up to a mega lawsuit like this.
NorthHawk wrote:Regardless of which union he might be in, he had a different employer.
Say he was in the Teamsters Union and moved from one business to another still with the same Union affiliation. Can the former employer continue to demand doping tests?
Somehow I doubt it as they are separate businesses, just like the CFL and NFL.
RiverDog wrote:NorthHawk wrote:Regardless of which union he might be in, he had a different employer.
Say he was in the Teamsters Union and moved from one business to another still with the same Union affiliation. Can the former employer continue to demand doping tests?
Somehow I doubt it as they are separate businesses, just like the CFL and NFL.
My guess is that they can. I know that random drug testing is part of the requirements of keeping certain licenses valid, such as a CDL or a nursing license, no matter which employer you're working for or if you're not working at all. DR's electricians union is just one example. I suppose if a player wants to maintain his "license" or elgibility to play NFL football, he has to take the tests.
I'm sure that the NFL has fleshed this thing out pretty well by soliciting opinions from the legal community well before they proposed the policy, and I'm equally sure that the union researched the legality of it as well before they signed off on the agreement. Nothing's for sure when it goes to court, but given that the two parties agreed to this policy, IMO the only question is whether or not Browner violated it. I doubt that he stands much of a chance if he's going to challenge the legality of the policy itself.
HumanCockroach wrote:Just not sure how the NFL can justify the fine, and 4 game suspension steps being skipped in Browner and only Browners case. That is the NFL's punishment model and in this case they simply ignored it. Strange, and IMO that could be their biggest hurdle to be successful against Browner.
But the drug testing would be performed by the new business who now employs him, not the old business which should have no say.
Being part of a Union or Association doesn't give a former employer the right to manage or punish a former employee.
NorthHawk wrote:I suppose that's why Lawyers are involved for looking at the CBA and labor law.
RiverDog wrote:HumanCockroach wrote:Just not sure how the NFL can justify the fine, and 4 game suspension steps being skipped in Browner and only Browners case. That is the NFL's punishment model and in this case they simply ignored it. Strange, and IMO that could be their biggest hurdle to be successful against Browner.
He did get a 4 game suspension, last season. He's been suspended indefinitely. That doesn't necessarily mean permanently, only that they have yet to decide on a length of the suspension.
What's the next step in the substance abuse policy after the 4 game suspension? 8 games? Season long?
RiverDog wrote:HumanCockroach wrote:Just not sure how the NFL can justify the fine, and 4 game suspension steps being skipped in Browner and only Browners case. That is the NFL's punishment model and in this case they simply ignored it. Strange, and IMO that could be their biggest hurdle to be successful against Browner.
He did get a 4 game suspension, last season. He's been suspended indefinitely. That doesn't necessarily mean permanently, only that they have yet to decide on a length of the suspension.
What's the next step in the substance abuse policy after the 4 game suspension? 8 games? Season long?
HumanCockroach wrote:Browners four game suspension was for PED's which is an entirely different program than the substance abuse policy. It should have gone 4 game paycheck FINE ( money only) followed by 4 game suspension ( like Thurmond, games and paychecks) followed by "indefinite" suspension. Problem is in order to even get to the third stage at ALL that 4 game suspeniosn and the 4 game fine occur in the second stage, which in Browners case was completely ignored.
Eaglehawk wrote:HumanCockroach wrote:Browners four game suspension was for PED's which is an entirely different program than the substance abuse policy. It should have gone 4 game paycheck FINE ( money only) followed by 4 game suspension ( like Thurmond, games and paychecks) followed by "indefinite" suspension. Problem is in order to even get to the third stage at ALL that 4 game suspeniosn and the 4 game fine occur in the second stage, which in Browners case was completely ignored.
Wow HC, did not know that. Thanks for that. This info is very enlightening.
NorthHawk wrote:So do we know if Browner was ever in Stage 2?
Another question is does it say a player missing tests is automatically put in Stage 3?
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