Sad decline in forum discourse

[Hawktawk]

I love this forum OT and Hawks but I feel it's time to say something about the overall derogatory insulting tone of ad hominem attacks in both forums. Ot in particular has become a microcosm of america where there is no middle ground and zero civility. Strongly held beliefs about political things and even sports are older than the internet and one should be able to have a passionate discourse without being attacked as being some sort of mentally unstable person.

Its known to many on the forum that i am bipolar by my own admission. I was diagnosed in 2011 in my 50s and have been medicated ever since. I embrace my diagnosis as an explanation for my actions and depression over the years but not an excuse and I take my meds.I've helped many others get help with their own mental problems by being honest and sharing my experience in public forums.

But prior to that I was an extremely successful golf course supe for 3 decades who actually invented some processes and maintained some of the finest greens in the northwest.I never broke the laws other than traffic and smoking ganja, never sexually assaulted a woman, faithfully married for over 20 years, a hundred friends at least, the kind of guy who sits down on a bar stool and is talking with someone they never met within 5 minutes. My IQ has consistently tested at high 120's to low 130's whatever one thinks of those measurements.

This forum and no place else is where this lifelong conservative and former republican goes to vent,let off steam.And IMO there's something to vent strongly about.

You don't know me and I don't know you. I'm just sick of having people in this forum who know who they are tell me I need to up my meds if I believe as many millions in this country do that we appointed a SCOTUS judge who raped a 15 year old or that I live in a delusional world and need professional help if I believe the president of the united states is a criminal, a sexual assaulter of women by his own taped admission, a conspirator with our greatest geopolitical foe who needs to be impeached as many millions of other americans believe.

Its over the top. You believe what you believe and I believe what I believe. We can argue on the merits without all the personal insults and degrading attacks on one another. That's all. GO HAWKS!!!!!!

[burrrton]

I'm just sick of having people in this forum who know who they are tell me I need to up my meds if I believe as many millions in this country do that we appointed a SCOTUS judge who raped a 15 year old

I feel badly saying this sometimes, tawk, but this is indicative of why you need to up your meds- not even Ford herself claims Kavanaugh raped her.

You don't get to bemoan polarized rhetoric when you can't say anything on even a mildly charged subject without performing an embarrassing, verbal bed-wetting in front of everyone. *You're* what's wrong with the discourse right now.

[RiverDog]

I both agree and disagree with your point. Yes, we should all strive to treat each other with civility, and there are times that you are unfairly characterized with some very caustic, inflammatory labels. Like you, there are times in which I've felt that I've been unfairly attacked or characterized, and it's disturbed me.

I have to admit that there are times that I read a poster's musings, such as Anthony's blatant obsession with Russell Wilson or Idahawkman's equally obvious obsession with DJT, that I have to hit the backspace key and edit my remarks multiple times in order to make them less personal. So in that regard, I'd like to take this opportunity to ask all of my friends here to show each other a little more respect.

But then again, burrton has a point in that you bring a lot of it on yourself. I wish I had a nickel for every time you've referred to Trump as an "orange haired witch" and I don't think that there's a single post of yours that when the subject of DJT is involved that didn't have something extremely over the top inflammatory to say. If I'm a follower of Trump's, I can understand why that kind of language would encourage a tit-for-tat response. It's a two way street. If you don't like the insults, then don't engage in them yourself.

[idhawkman]

I think part of the problem is people don't stop to think what they are saying. E.g. when Clinton called Trump voters "deploreables". Just remember, people view the same set of facts differently but it doesn't make them racist, homeophbic, mysogenistic, etc.

Take for instance, O.J. Simpson's case. It is widely viewed that he murdered his wife but were you there for the entire trial like the jury was? Were you deliberating with the other jurors who didn't find him guilty? Or are you drawing your conclusion based on what the media has fed you? Its no secret that I am very skeptical of anything the media tells us. We've started wars over what the media has told us and thousands of Americans died. There's always money at the end of the corruption such as Lady Bird Johnson gettig rich selling uniforms to both sides of the Vietnam war.

I know I started to go off the rails there but keep in mind the words that you use to describe Trump can often be seen as an Ad Hominem attack on his voters.

[Aseahawkfan]

I think part of the problem is people don't stop to think what they are saying. E.g. when Clinton called Trump voters "deploreables". Just remember, people view the same set of facts differently but it doesn't make them racist, homeophbic, mysogenistic, etc.

Take for instance, O.J. Simpson's case. It is widely viewed that he murdered his wife but were you there for the entire trial like the jury was? Were you deliberating with the other jurors who didn't find him guilty? Or are you drawing your conclusion based on what the media has fed you? Its no secret that I am very skeptical of anything the media tells us. We've started wars over what the media has told us and thousands of Americans died. There's always money at the end of the corruption such as Lady Bird Johnson gettig rich selling uniforms to both sides of the Vietnam war.

I know I started to go off the rails there but keep in mind the words that you use to describe Trump can often be seen as an Ad Hominem attack on his voters.

It depends on the voter. The ones I understand are the ones that say, "Yeah, this guy is a lying, arrogant, low character prick, but what choice do I have if I want immigration enforced, PC culture fought, and economic policies that don't tax and spend all the time." I can appreciate that idea since the mainstream Republican Party isn't doing much and the Democrats are enslaving themselves to ideals that do not represent the nation well, but instead turn it into a morally ambiguous cesspool of government leeching to pay for low character people that want to blame their self-destructive behaviors on others. That I can understand and feel myself, which is why I never vote Democrat at the moment.

I don't get the Trump voters defending the scumbag aspects of his behavior or his total lack of interest in educating himself on issues. He acts exactly like some rich guy that doesn't care about what anyone thinks and he's treating the nation like his own private business. That's not good.

[Hawktawk]

[quote="burrrton"

I feel badly saying this sometimes, tawk, but this is indicative of why you need to up your meds- not even Ford herself claims Kavanaugh raped her.

You don't get to bemoan polarized rhetoric when you can't say anything on even a mildly charged subject without performing an embarrassing, verbal bed-wetting in front of everyone. *You're* what's wrong with the discourse right now.[/quote]

Point taken. I beleive he seually assaulted her . And As I say there's something to vent about.. If that's wetting the bed to you well i just don't think people like you care enough with is most in this country.

[Hawktawk]

I both agree and disagree with your point. Yes, we should all strive to treat each other with civility, and there are times that you are unfairly characterized with some very caustic, inflammatory labels. Like you, there are times in which I've felt that I've been unfairly attacked or characterized, and it's disturbed me.

I have to admit that there are times that I read a poster's musings, such as Anthony's blatant obsession with Russell Wilson or Idahawkman's equally obvious obsession with DJT, that I have to hit the backspace key and edit my remarks multiple times in order to make them less personal. So in that regard, I'd like to take this opportunity to ask all of my friends here to show each other a little more respect.

But then again, burrton has a point in that you bring a lot of it on yourself. I wish I had a nickel for every time you've referred to Trump as an "orange haired witch" and I don't think that there's a single post of yours that when the subject of DJT is involved that didn't have something extremely over the top inflammatory to say. If I'm a follower of Trump's, I can understand why that kind of language would encourage a tit-for-tat response. It's a two way street. If you don't like the insults, then don't engage in them yourself.

Crazy orange witch is obviously a tongue in cheek reference to the schoolyard bully name caller 5th grader in the oval office.You know, lyin Ted, little marco, crooked hillary, sessions became Mr Magoo, Now Tillerson is dumb as a rock and lazy as hell.

Hes crazy, don't ask me ask the thousands of psychologists who have signed a petition saying he suffers from numerous mental disorders. Or hell just watch him and listen to him talk. Definitely Bat$#1t crazy . Hes orange due to the fake tan and the lousy hair color on his comb over. And he's the witch the Special council is catching in his hunt Trump always tweets about EVERY DAY. Maybe it takes one to know one when it comes to mental illness but the dude is more crazy by accident than i ever was on purpose and he was a nasty crooked mean person before he started losing his mind...Sorry RD I just cant equivocate when it comes to DJT. I invested too much time and effort in the party hes utterly destroyed. AS for ID and Burt and whoever else may read this my bed wetting or whatever about the indefensible conduct in this WH is not intended as an ad hominem attack on you. My best friend on the planet contributed to his campaign and still supports him. We attended the 9ers game. We just don't talk about it at all anymore and 3 years ago we would never have disagreed about anything politically. And to think i thought Obama was divisive

[burrrton]

And to think i thought Obama was divisive

That was overstated at the time, too, but with Trump, 3/4 of the "divisiveness" has been brought about by the lunatics who've lost their minds over him.

The Kavanaugh hearing was a microcosm of it- the press wrote think-pieces and Dems hollered all day about how "divisive" the process was, all the while missing that they themselves were the only reason it was so.

Stop for a moment calling everyone and everything in sight a teenage druggy gang rapist who's going to institute the Handmaid's Tale and you'd have seen he's a bog-standard, right-leaning judge.

I beleive he seually assaulted her .

Why?

Hes crazy, don't ask me ask the thousands of psychologists who have signed a petition saying he suffers from numerous mental disorders.

That's called "malpractice".

[idhawkman]

Hes crazy, don't ask me ask the thousands of psychologists who have signed a petition saying he suffers from numerous mental disorders.

That's called "malpractice".

That's why it isn't true. They'd lose their license to practice medicine on a person without them being a patient. But don't let the truth stand in the way of a good smear job.

[burrrton]

That's why it isn't true. They'd lose their license to practice medicine on a person without them being a patient. But don't let the truth stand in the way of a good smear job.

Yeah, true or not (I don't know), it sure as hell isn't something you can diagnose watching someone on TV. Those "psychologists" made fools of themselves.

[RiverDog]

Crazy orange witch is obviously a tongue in cheek reference to the schoolyard bully name caller 5th grader in the oval office.You know, lyin Ted, little marco, crooked hillary, sessions became Mr Magoo, Now Tillerson is dumb as a rock and lazy as hell.

Hes crazy, don't ask me ask the thousands of psychologists who have signed a petition saying he suffers from numerous mental disorders. Or hell just watch him and listen to him talk. Definitely Bat$#1t crazy . Hes orange due to the fake tan and the lousy hair color on his comb over. And he's the witch the Special council is catching in his hunt Trump always tweets about EVERY DAY. Maybe it takes one to know one when it comes to mental illness but the dude is more crazy by accident than i ever was on purpose and he was a nasty crooked mean person before he started losing his mind...Sorry RD I just cant equivocate when it comes to DJT. I invested too much time and effort in the party hes utterly destroyed. AS for ID and Burt and whoever else may read this my bed wetting or whatever about the indefensible conduct in this WH is not intended as an ad hominem attack on you. My best friend on the planet contributed to his campaign and still supports him. We attended the 9ers game. We just don't talk about it at all anymore and 3 years ago we would never have disagreed about anything politically. And to think i thought Obama was divisive

Hawktalk I'll admit that Trump has a really bad temper, is undisciplined, unprofessional, and behaves like a typical spoiled rich kid that is so used to getting his way that he can't handle adversity, which is one of the reasons why I don't think he's fit for the office. But mentally ill? Like burrton said, there has to be a lot more evidence than just a bad temper to reach that kind of a diagnosis.

I'm really trying to take your side on this as you and I share an extreme dislike of DJT and I consider you a friend. But you're making it difficult. If you continue to use the terms you have to describe DJT, don't get upset when others characterize you in an uncomplimentary fashion.

[Hawktawk]

[quote="burrrton"]And to think i thought Obama was divisive

"That was overstated at the time, too, but with Trump, 3/4 of the "divisiveness" has been brought about by the lunatics who've lost their minds over him."


As I say if vehement opposition to this pig by a lifelong republican who was very stridently opposed to Obama is losing my mind I'm glad i've done so. If the MF chokes on a big mac Im cracking a beer, Total waste of oxygen and utterly unfit in every sense of the word to be president or run an auto parts store in hoboken for that matter,..

"The Kavanaugh hearing was a microcosm of it- the press wrote think-pieces and Dems hollered all day about how "divisive" the process was, all the while missing that they themselves were the only reason it was so."

Both parties were ridiculous. repubs dumping 40 thousand documents minutes before the hearing and constantly interrupting dems during questions, cutting them off etc was no better than the democrats who were frankly ridiculous. Also the back door dump of the Blasiford report of the sexual assault was ridiculous. Its a fact she did not want to be publicly identified but to be interviewed behind closed doors, one of many reasons I believe her

"Stop for a moment calling everyone and everything in sight a teenage druggy gang rapist who's going to institute the Handmaid's Tale and you'd have seen he's a bog-standard, right-leaning judge."

I have absolutely no problem with Neil Gorsuch and think he's an excellent successor to Scalia. Weirdly enough he wasn't accused of anything such as the drunken rapist either because he was a fine upstanding conservative guy who watched his Ps and Qs growing up.

I was opposed to Kavanaugh before the Blasi Ford testimony due to his having written the articles of impeachment against Clinton for Ken Starr and then coming to jesus to write that a President can basically do whatever he wants and he shouldn't be indicted or investigated in office. Any impediment to impeaching or incarcerating crazy orange witch is not ok with me. Then came Blasi Ford, Ramirez, Swetnick and 2 other unnamed victims as well but my mind was already made up.

" I beleive he seually assaulted her .

Why?"

Wow where do I begin. #1 I don't see a tenured professor with a security clearance and impeccable resume just making something up out of whole cloth to stop a judge knowing Trump would just nominate another conservative judge. She had to move 4 times, faced death threats and was ridiculed openly by the witch which you parroted his line verbatim in the forum shortly before telling me i need to up my meds for pointing it out BTW.

She can prove proximity and her story about him "trying " to tear off her suit, turning up the music, locking the door, he and Judge laughing has the ring of truth to me.

As you pointed out in my typo she never said he raped her. Hell if you're making it up why not say say he treated her like something out of debbie does dallas? Recruit your liberal friends to backup your story if its a left wing conspiracy.

He huddled in the WH for several days with a phalanx of lawyers. Why would a falsely accused man do that? He went on Faux and gave a powder puff interview with his visibly uncomfortable wife and mentioned wanting a "fair process" 21 times in 10 minutes of air time. That's called talking points.Why does a lily white innocent man need talking points?

I recall you saying that none of hers or Ramires or Swetnics friends could recall the incidents they described which is true but you omitted the fact that all their friends said they absolutely believe them and don't think they would ever make such a thing up.
The FBI investigation was controlled from the get go by the WH, nobody was under penalty of perjury. Judges girlfriend who stated publicly that Mark had confided in her that he participated in a gang rape of a drunk woman was not interviewed despite filling out a sworn statement. The former FBI agent who administered Blasi Fords polygraph with she PASSED was not interviewed. He lied about his alcohol consumption in sworn testimony to the Senate and was called out by numerous friends and associates from his HS and college days. Damn I could go on but I'm getting carpal tunnel syndrome. Yeah he did it. We've got a guy on the supreme court that at a minimum tried to rape a 15 year old when he was a preppie Basketball stud in HS.

And yes Trump is crazy, mentally ill. Pretty obvious top anyone who isn't carrying water for him, even guys like you that pretend they are in the middle but really aren't.

[burrrton]

Wow where do I begin. #1 I don't see a tenured professor with a security clearance and impeccable resume just making something up out of whole cloth to stop a judge knowing Trump would just nominate another conservative judge.

1. "Tenured professors" have no credibility in the 'left vs right' debates in 2018- you of all people should know this.

2. She was a leftist activist who literally could not remember anything about that night. I've said this before, but she couldn't remember the date, the time, the place, who was there, how she got there, how she got home, and every one of her named "witnesses" say they don't know what she's talking about.

If it was a court of law, the defense would be *begging* the prosecution to put her on the stand.

She can prove proximity and her story about him "trying " to tear off her suit, turning up the music, locking the door, he and Judge laughing has the ring of truth to me.

What does the word "prove" mean to you, and what does "proving proximity" imply? Honest question.

I recall you saying that none of hers or Ramires or Swetnics friends could recall the incidents they described which is true but you omitted the fact that all their friends said they absolutely believe them and don't think they would ever make such a thing up.

LOL. So they don't remember sh*t, either, but they and you believe her. Ok, well, I guess we should go with them and you, then.

And yes Trump is crazy, mentally ill. Pretty obvious top anyone who isn't carrying water for him, even guys like you that pretend they are in the middle but really aren't.

Well, I guess you got me figured out just like this whole 'Ford/Kavanaugh' thing.

[edit]

And honestly, what is it with the quoting issues? Posts are impossible to read when you can't figure out a simple thing like quote tags. Please spend a moment- it will improve discourse.