The Mess Called the EU

[idhawkman]

Socialism only took 10 years to turn the 3rd largest economy into a hot mess in Venezuela. Think about that for a minute.

That said, let's look at what social programs (many of which a lot of Americans hold up as examples to follow) in the EU have done to Europe.

1. The Brits want out because their culture and ecomomical power is decimated through the EU's open borders and common currency.

2. Germany is racked with violence and their culture is also a hot mess. Merkle can't run for re-election and unrest is openly apparent.

3. Macron of France is in deep trouble with an approval rating of only 18% (down 7% from last week alone). The country is on fire and the people protesting are chanting "We want Trump." Let that sink in for a moment. Macron has reached out to Trump (who he bashed publicly just 5 weeks ago about nationalism) for advice on how to turn France around. With France on fire and many of their monuments including the Eiffel tower closed for security concerns, I sit here wondering how much carbon footprint they are producing with the tires, plastics and foam from their cars burning in the streets.

4. Italy is on the verge of bankruptcy to the level that will make Greece look like a penny bail out.

5. Nordic countries are expelling their refugees at a very high rate.

This all concerns me because with this much unrest in a concentrated space will eventually boil over. I remember someone telling me 2.5 years ago that these countries are examples of how successful "Democratic Socialism" would be. The only thing Democratic Socialism does is slow down the march of socialism which we all know leads to economic disaster like in Venezuela. EU is just taking the slow train to the same place though.

[Aseahawkfan]

Socialism only took 10 years to turn the 3rd largest economy into a hot mess in Venezuela. Think about that for a minute.

That said, let's look at what social programs (many of which a lot of Americans hold up as examples to follow) in the EU have done to Europe.

1. The Brits want out because their culture and ecomomical power is decimated through the EU's open borders and common currency.

2. Germany is racked with violence and their culture is also a hot mess. Merkle can't run for re-election and unrest is openly apparent.

3. Macron of France is in deep trouble with an approval rating of only 18% (down 7% from last week alone). The country is on fire and the people protesting are chanting "We want Trump." Let that sink in for a moment. Macron has reached out to Trump (who he bashed publicly just 5 weeks ago about nationalism) for advice on how to turn France around. With France on fire and many of their monuments including the Eiffel tower closed for security concerns, I sit here wondering how much carbon footprint they are producing with the tires, plastics and foam from their cars burning in the streets.

4. Italy is on the verge of bankruptcy to the level that will make Greece look like a penny bail out.

5. Nordic countries are expelling their refugees at a very high rate.

This all concerns me because with this much unrest in a concentrated space will eventually boil over. I remember someone telling me 2.5 years ago that these countries are examples of how successful "Democratic Socialism" would be. The only thing Democratic Socialism does is slow down the march of socialism which we all know leads to economic disaster like in Venezuela. EU is just taking the slow train to the same place though.

All of those nations you listed are Socio-Capitalist. None of their problems exceed our own. Their violence rates are lower than ours. Using your metrics, you would only open the door for some socialist to falsely claim capitalism is a total failure because our violence, crime, and all of that is worse than "socialist" Europe. Only problem is Europe isn't socialist.

The biggest problem with the EU is the cultural differences between member nations. Germany has all the power. They are the more powerful economy. Nations like Spain, Italy, and France can't compete with Germany, not economically or culturally. Germans have a particular culture and are some of the hardest working, smartest people on the planet. How can a nation like Italy or Spain compete with such a nation? Their populations are smaller. Their education rates less. Their people in general less accomplished.

You can't mix cultures with very different backgrounds into a system with such a powerful nation so vastly ahead of all of them. Germany and the Scandinavian nations would have a better chance of forming a powerful trading bloc given their nations are more alike. Each European nation is very different. Mixing them was a bad idea. Now Germany is basically the controller of the bloc Without Germany the EU doesn't exist, especially with Britain leaving.

Britain was smart to get out. Why should high functioning nations like Britain and Germany support weaker nations like Spain, Italy, and Greece? It was a dumb idea.

As far as Latin America, that is where idiotic socialism has festered. The idiots down there can't get Che Guevara and his idiocy out of their mind. What's funny is there is a tiny little nation there that is running very well using the Socialism-Capitalism model. That nation is Uruguay. It goes to show the size of the nation isn't as important as the intelligence of the leadership and the development of a strong, unified culture.

Fact is every nation in the world is using a Socialism-Capitalism mix including America. Any "pure" system is a bad idea. Fact is you always want to blend economic ideas to accomplish certain goals. Capitalism for police or military powers is a bad idea just like ownership of a company like Amazon by a socialist government is a bad idea. As I see it given the evidence, capitalism is the engine of your economy, socialism is the body of the car so the engine won't shatter the country apart. You need strong, stable governmental institutions that ensure capitalism has a healthy environment to work within.

There's lots of factors as to why nations end up as they are. Socialism in and of itself is unlikely to be the cause. Usually it's the mechanism that creates a culture of violence by those forcibly enacting some form of government that are the problem, whether it's forcing socialism down someone's throat like Castro or the idiot in Venezuela or some scumbag using military and governmental power to take advantage of capitalism like the jackass in Russia or the various lying dictators. It's an extremely complex issue.

The EU is really not doing bad by standard metrics, especially compared to the United States. I don't find your comparison very compelling considering certain nations have a very high standard of living far better than an average American.

Suffice to say you should love your nation because it is your nation than relying on some nebulous metrics to compare them against other nations. If you plan to move because you're not number "one" as some like to see it, then who needs you. I want people who love what American stands for and its Constitution. I'm sorry. Capitalism is the economic method The Founders relied on, but it is a separate from the Constitution. If Capitalism starts to interfere with our values, then it must be put aside to fix the problem.

[idhawkman]

Yeah, you think the violence over the last 4 weeks in France is not as bad as our own. Here's a little insight, they are on the verge of a systemic collapse because the elites cut taxes on the rich and raised them on the middle class with their gas tax. Now that Macron has recinded the gas tax the protests and violence hasn't stopped. If you think that May withdrawing the vote on Brexit, France, Germany and the rest of the EU isn't about to collapse into chaos because of their socialistic programs you are not paying attention.

[idhawkman]

Uh-oh. I think Macron just threw gasoline on the fire in France.

[burrrton]

Uh-oh. I think Macron just threw gasoline on the fire in France.

What'd he do? I've been off the grid for the last day or so.

[RiverDog]

Uh-oh. I think Macron just threw gasoline on the fire in France.

What'd he do? I've been off the grid for the last day or so.

I don't know WTF he's talking about, either. For crissakes, Idahawk, would you please start using a quote or a link instead of forcing us to sift through the internet to see what the hell it is you're talking about.

[Aseahawkfan]

There is a bunch of protesting in France over living wages or whatever. France is a stupid country filled with lazy people that hate the rich and believe they have some kind of right to a life their lazy work ethic will never allow them to obtain.

I learned a lot about the idiocy of France when I was investing in a French company. They charge an additional 15% tax on dividends in addition to what you already pay as part of your income tax. It's triple taxation on dividends. I also read on some of their workplace policies. Apparently if an employee kills themselves claiming to have done so because they worked too much, the family can sue the company. This is even with lower hour work weeks. They have policies that discourage wealth accumulation. Thomas Piketty, the guy that wrote the book against capitalism, is French. The French are raised like Latin Americans, believing you can have a grand society that you don't actually work to build.

The thing you learn about Europe when you read on that area of the world is there is Germany, The Scandinavian Nations, Austria, Great Britain, Switzerland (My favorite nation in Europe), and Ireland, the working peoples of Europe, then there is everyone else. The other peoples of Europe seem to believe that your government can give you a lot of stuff while you don't pay taxes or work.

The only nation I would move to in Europe is Switzerland. They are the closest thing to America they have in Europe.

[idhawkman]

Sorry there was no link as I was watching his national address to the French people live on T.V. Basically he said he made a mistake but the protesters (rioters) should suck it up and go back to their lives since he said he was "sorry."

I also see where the U.K. is going to have a vote of "no Confidence" in PM May today. This came up quickly (basically overnight) and could be a real hit to their Brexit plans. May is in Germany meeting with Merkel today which I find as rich.