Kaschoggi murder

[Hawktawk]

Anyone catch the high five and bromance handshake between the crown prince and Vlad putin today replete with hearty laughter for about a minute?

So nauseating and utterly chilling to see these two ruthless murderous strongman celebrating the FACT that the POTUS is so weak and hopelessly compromised and cowardly they can do any damn thing they want

Dissidents in Russia and Saudi arabia buckle your seat belts and STFU!!!! Its going to get worse

[Hawktawk]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... om-at-g-20

[Aseahawkfan]

None of these sucker politicians including "Nationalist" Trump will do a thing about Saudi Arabia. They don't care and never will as long as Saudi controls gas prices. Trump's just another politicians in a long line talking a tough game, while letting the real threats to America keep on doing what they're doing.

Homeless, poor immigrants with no power or money to do much to America, they're the enemy. Wealthy oil billionaires teaching anti-Americanism in their nation and funding Wahhabi terrorists all over the world including the orchestration of 9/11 and the killing of many Americans worldwide, they buy his million dollar apartments and keep the gas prices low so they're great people. You wonder why we're screwed and no one is going to stop it. Not the Trump-bots and their fake president or any of these scumbag politicians selling us out to foreign powers because they all know Americans aren't up for it anyway. If the economic collapsed, Americans would elect whoever made the deals with the same people to keep the cheap oil coming. That's our situation and it isn't changing any time soon. So get used to it. Saudis can murder you or your family and not much will get done by anyone.

[idhawkman]

Anyone catch the high five and bromance handshake between the crown prince and Vlad putin today replete with hearty laughter for about a minute?

So nauseating and utterly chilling to see these two ruthless murderous strongman celebrating the FACT that the POTUS is so weak and hopelessly compromised and cowardly they can do any damn thing they want

Dissidents in Russia and Saudi arabia buckle your seat belts and STFU!!!! Its going to get worse

Sooooo, what are you saying? Trump should shun the prince and force them into the arms of Putin? How long before you claim that Putin played Trump into making an enemy out of Saudi and giving all the technology that we've sold to Saudi over the years to Russia?

[idhawkman]

None of these sucker politicians including "Nationalist" Trump will do a thing about Saudi Arabia. They don't care and never will as long as Saudi controls gas prices. Trump's just another politicians in a long line talking a tough game, while letting the real threats to America keep on doing what they're doing.

Homeless, poor immigrants with no power or money to do much to America, they're the enemy. Wealthy oil billionaires teaching anti-Americanism in their nation and funding Wahhabi terrorists all over the world including the orchestration of 9/11 and the killing of many Americans worldwide, they buy his million dollar apartments and keep the gas prices low so they're great people. You wonder why we're screwed and no one is going to stop it. Not the Trump-bots and their fake president or any of these scumbag politicians selling us out to foreign powers because they all know Americans aren't up for it anyway. If the economic collapsed, Americans would elect whoever made the deals with the same people to keep the cheap oil coming. That's our situation and it isn't changing any time soon. So get used to it. Saudis can murder you or your family and not much will get done by anyone.

Yep, we get it, you think they are the devil incarnate. But my question to you still stands, what is your solution to this problem? Isolation from all the bad guys in the world? Corrupt the economy for all americans (and your investments) to say that you stood up to one international bad guy?

[Hawktawk]

]
Sooooo, what are you saying? Trump should shun the prince and force them into the arms of Putin? How long before you claim that Putin played Trump into making an enemy out of Saudi and giving all the technology that we've sold to Saudi over the years to Russia?

Looks like Putin and the crown punk are already in an embrace.The pictures don't lie. Whatever happened to black and white, right and wrong? The Prince should be executed for ordering this murder, not grinning ear to ear and belly laughing with Putin after ordering the strangulation and dismemberment of a washington post reporter and permanent US resident.

The Saudi Kingdom needs us a lot worse than we need them.Our military industrial complex isn't going to suffer if they want to buy Russia's inferior junk and there's no certainty our relationship with the country would change much at all..

There should be a price to pay for this atrocity. There are many influential Saudis that can't stand this tyrannical child anyway. Listening to Republican and Democratic Senators fury after the Gina Haspel briefing there may well be some punishment regardless of the nauseating lies and whitewash by Pompeo and especially Mattis, formerly highly respected men who have soiled themselves irreparably for this vile man Trump and his agenda.

As for Putin playing Trump that horse left the barn in Nov of 2016. Watching him on his knees in Helsinki TREASONOUSLY tossing our intelligence agencies under the bus( the point at which Cohen had decided to cooperate with law enforcement) and his almost non existent response to the latest aggression in Ukraine makes it clear he's deathly afraid of Putin's blackmail. He only cancelled a formal meeting at the G2 after the Cohen plea deal about offering Putin a condo in Trump tower Moscow broke as he had already affirmed he would meet Putin following the aggression.
Putin OWNS HIM.

[idhawkman]

There should be a price to pay for this atrocity.

Are you sure you are conservative? This alone shows you are a globalist wanting the US to play the role of world cops. We can't even play real cops in the US anymore without our population trying to kill them or abolish them at every turn.

As a nation that must be a part of this F_cked up world, we have to interact with other nations for various reasons. We don't agree witht he attrocities in most other nations but that doesn't mean we can stick our nose into their affairs. How would you like it if I came to your house and told you how to run your family? You'd have a whole new and deeper contempt for me wouldn't you. Do you really want that for the U.S.?

[RiverDog]

I see where even Sen. Lindsey Graham, one of Trump's biggest Senate allies, has concluded that the Crown Prince has his fingerprints all over the Kaschoggi murder, saying that there's "not a smoking gun, but a smoking saw" in reference to the tool used to dismember Kaschoggi's body.

[Hawktawk]

I see where even Sen. Lindsey Graham, one of Trump's biggest Senate allies, has concluded that the Crown Prince has his fingerprints all over the Kaschoggi murder, saying that there's "not a smoking gun, but a smoking saw" in reference to the tool used to dismember Kaschoggi's body.

Saw that RD. Its not surprising to see Bob Corker, an early vocal Trump critic speaking out. Lindsey Graham's fury who had become a rubber stamp for anything Trump wanted to do including firing Sessions, something Graham had said a year ago was a "red line" carries a lot more weight . He said almost immediately after it became clear the Crown Prince had ordered and monitored the killing that the guy was done as the Saudi leader.

But ultimately it's up to the Trump administration and DT has so much money coming in from them he will never piss them off. It's not about arms sales.

[Hawktawk]

Are you sure you are conservative? This alone shows you are a globalist wanting the US to play the role of world cops. We can't even play real cops in the US anymore without our population trying to kill them or abolish them at every turn.

As a nation that must be a part of this F_cked up world, we have to interact with other nations for various reasons. We don't agree witht he attrocities in most other nations but that doesn't mean we can stick our nose into their affairs. How would you like it if I came to your house and told you how to run your family? You'd have a whole new and deeper contempt for me wouldn't you. Do you really want that for the U.S.?

We are globalist to the core as the world's alleged remaining superpower and always have been. We are the world's policeman, its moral standard bearer or at least until the past 2 administrations.

And the analogy of you coming to my house telling me what to do is ridiculous. This was an evil murderous strongman luring a PERMANENT UNITED STATES RESIDENT AND WASHINGTON POST COLUMNIST standing up to his repressive regime to a FOREIGN consulate and systematically killing and dismembering him then telling about 15 different stories to try to absolve the Punk kid prince of responsibility.

Yeah a price should be paid for this.

[idhawkman]

I see where even Sen. Lindsey Graham, one of Trump's biggest Senate allies, has concluded that the Crown Prince has his fingerprints all over the Kaschoggi murder, saying that there's "not a smoking gun, but a smoking saw" in reference to the tool used to dismember Kaschoggi's body.

...and???? You don't see Graham stating that we should isolate ourselves from them though. He believes in some kind of sanctions but to what extent? How many diplomats should we eject from the U.S.?

More importantly, what is your idea of a solution? Where would you like to see this go?

[idhawkman]

Saw that RD. Its not surprising to see Bob Corker, an early vocal Trump critic speaking out. Lindsey Graham's fury who had become a rubber stamp for anything Trump wanted to do including firing Sessions, something Graham had said a year ago was a "red line" carries a lot more weight . He said almost immediately after it became clear the Crown Prince had ordered and monitored the killing that the guy was done as the Saudi leader.

But ultimately it's up to the Trump administration and DT has so much money coming in from them he will never piss them off. It's not about arms sales.

Oh, so now Trump should overthrow the govt of Saudi Arabia. Got it.

The comment about the money coming in is just a lie by you.

[idhawkman]

We are globalist to the core as the world's alleged remaining superpower and always have been. We are the world's policeman, its moral standard bearer or at least until the past 2 administrations.

And the analogy of you coming to my house telling me what to do is ridiculous. This was an evil murderous strongman luring a PERMANENT UNITED STATES RESIDENT AND WASHINGTON POST COLUMNIST standing up to his repressive regime to a FOREIGN consulate and systematically killing and dismembering him then telling about 15 different stories to try to absolve the Punk kid prince of responsibility.

Yeah a price should be paid for this.

Non-U.S. citizens don't have PERMENANT RESIDENCY in the US. I know you want it with the open borders but it just isn't happening. He's still a Saudi passport carrying citizen of Saudi Arabia. He's just living in the U.S. currently.

[RiverDog]

I see where even Sen. Lindsey Graham, one of Trump's biggest Senate allies, has concluded that the Crown Prince has his fingerprints all over the Kaschoggi murder, saying that there's "[i]not a smoking gun, but a smoking saw" in reference to the tool used to dismember Kaschoggi's body.

...and???? You don't see Graham stating that we should isolate ourselves from them though.

The hell you don't! OK, smarty pants, here you go!

Graham said he would push legislation to sanction the crown prince and other high-level Saudis involved in Khashoggi’s killing and halt arms sales to the regime. He said he also wanted the Senate to pass a non-binding resolution naming Mohammed as responsible for Khashoggi’s death.

"Saudi Arabia's a strategic ally and the relationship is worth saving, but not at all costs," Graham said. "We’ll do more damage to our standing in the world by ignoring MBS" than by confronting him."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 199104002/

More importantly, what is your idea of a solution? Where would you like to see this go?

Ban arms sales, at least temporarily.

You and your boy Trump are all alone on this one. Would you for once admit that there might be something, anything that you think that Trump screwed up on? You really are making yourself look like Trump's puppet.

[burrrton]

Would you for once admit that there might be something, anything that you think that Trump screwed up on?

Not necessarily you, RD, but alternately, it would be refreshing if some of the Trump haters could show they're still capable of recognizing a mere difference of opinion.

I think I come down slightly on your side in this situation, but considering the atrocious behavior of the bad actors in this world, a decision to not overreact here is hardly indefensible.

[RiverDog]

Not necessarily you, RD, but alternately, it would be refreshing if some of the Trump haters could show they're still capable of recognizing a mere difference of opinion.

I think I come down slightly on your side in this situation, but considering the atrocious behavior of the bad actors in this world, a decision to not overreact here is hardly indefensible.

I hear ya about the Trump haters.

I mentioned this once before, so if you've already seen it, my apologies in advance for my redundancy. I have a very good Muslim friend, in his late 30's, an immigrant from Iraq, who lived in Saadam's regime. As you might expect, he was not very happy that we'd bombed the hell out of his country simply to achieve a regime change. He said that the princes and shieks are just as bad as Saadam, and it annoyed him that we'd jump in bed with the Saudi's or who ever sells us their oil and overlook their transgressions, yet when it comes to someone like Saadam, we use his treatment of his citizens as a pretense to go to war with his country and kill a bunch of innocents.

This incident with the Prince and the Kaschoggi murder is a good opportunity for us to break that trend, to show others in the Middle East that we stand for justice. I'm not advocating that we never speak to that regime ever again, but they have to pay a price, and the rest of the world needs to see us forcing them to pay that price.

Trump isn't just not over reacting, he's not reacting at all, and is completely ignorant of what just about every other objective observer has concluded, ie that the Prince has his finger prints all over this murder. He's stuck his head in the sand. If Congress passes a veto proof ban on arm sales to the Saudi's..and if a notorious Trump boot licker like Lindsey Graham has come out for such a ban, that scenario is extremely likely...he's going to have one helluva lot of egg on his face.

[Aseahawkfan]

Not necessarily you, RD, but alternately, it would be refreshing if some of the Trump haters could show they're still capable of recognizing a mere difference of opinion.

I think I come down slightly on your side in this situation, but considering the atrocious behavior of the bad actors in this world, a decision to not overreact here is hardly indefensible.

Not over-react? Are you seriously trying to tell me the list of crimes by Saudi Arabia does not warrant serious censure? Saudi Arabia teaches the worst form of Islam in the world. Where do you think Osama and the 9/11 terrorists learned their ideology?

You claim to be this guy paying attention, yet Saudi Arabia has been the worst source of world terrorism. We overlook it for oil. Are you seriously ok letting these scum do all that rotten stuff they do for cheap oil? Then at the same time you want to tell me we aren't ruthless? Like I've expressed to you again and again and again with literally piles of evidence to support what I'm saying and you ignore it or sidestep it. We allow Americans to be murdered for cheap oil. That is a ruthless act.

You seem to have this idea in your mind that if we're not Hitler, we're not ruthless. That's just a dumb idea. You don't need to take over nations militarily to maximize profits. In fact, that is the more costly method. It's smarter to simply let your businesses make money from other nations while letting them manage the cruel part. But if you do that, you are still a ruthless nation that does not support liberty or the well-being of your people and their people.

Saudi Arabia has a laundry list of scumbag behavior contrary to our values a mile long. More than Iran, more than Yemen, more than any of the countries on the travel ban or the terrorist watch list. Yet we just continue doing business as usual with them. It's straight up ruthless behavior by the United States that Trump isn't even bothering to hide or sugarcoat. He makes tens to hundreds of millions off them. The United States as a whole makes billions or trillions. That is the cost of our values and our lives. You seem to call that an over-reaction like this is the first time Saudi Arabia has done something scumbag to America. If Turkey hadn't made a power play to make Saudi Arabia look bad, we wouldn't even know about it because our government helps to cover up Saudi Arabian crimes.

[Aseahawkfan]

I hear ya about the Trump haters.

I mentioned this once before, so if you've already seen it, my apologies in advance for my redundancy. I have a very good Muslim friend, in his late 30's, an immigrant from Iraq, who lived in Saadam's regime. As you might expect, he was not very happy that we'd bombed the hell out of his country simply to achieve a regime change. He said that the princes and shieks are just as bad as Saadam, and it annoyed him that we'd jump in bed with the Saudi's or who ever sells us their oil and overlook their transgressions, yet when it comes to someone like Saadam, we use his treatment of his citizens as a pretense to go to war with his country and kill a bunch of innocents.

This incident with the Prince and the Kaschoggi murder is a good opportunity for us to break that trend, to show others in the Middle East that we stand for justice. I'm not advocating that we never speak to that regime ever again, but they have to pay a price, and the rest of the world needs to see us forcing them to pay that price.

Trump isn't just not over reacting, he's not reacting at all, and is completely ignorant of what just about every other objective observer has concluded, ie that the Prince has his finger prints all over this murder. He's stuck his head in the sand. If Congress passes a veto proof ban on arm sales to the Saudi's..and if a notorious Trump boot licker like Lindsey Graham has come out for such a ban, that scenario is extremely likely...he's going to have one helluva lot of egg on his face.

They are every bit as bad or worse than Saddam. They do rotten things the world over that our mainstream press doesn't cover and Americans don't care about. Americans like burrton and idhawkmen put their heads in the sand apparently and ignore the suffering of other nations even if American money is helping to facilitate that suffering. They could care less. It drives me nuts, but what can you do when your nation ignores the alarm bells?

I'm reading a biography on Churchill right now. Great Britain is appeasing the Nazis and selling out their values to maintain peace for themselves, while letting other smaller nations suffer. Churchill is not buying in and is resisting them for love of nation. I will resist alone or as part of a small group that won't tolerate these scumbag politicians selling us out to foreign powers for money and allowing the suffering of others.

Saudi Arabia is a terrorist nation that does not mean America well. They treat us like servants and whores thinking they can pay us off to sell out our values. I'm extremely tired of it. Trump is just the new clown in office ignoring this vile nation. For a while there, I thought he was a real nationalist wanting to stand up to China to protect us. Now I see he's just another clown politician talking tough while doing nothing when the real scumbag nations do their evil.

I have no tolerance for Saudi Arabia and their leadership. Now I actively despise Trump for his appeasement of a tyrannical terrorist nation using American money to fund their scumbag behavior.

[burrrton]

Are you seriously trying to tell me the list of crimes by Saudi Arabia does not warrant serious censure?

I'm not necessarily (as I said, I think I'd support censure), but when we've been ignoring those kind of atrocities for decades, are you seriously trying to tell me this, THIS, is the deal breaker?

Give me a break.

Kaschoggi was a MB-supporting @sshole, and SA is notoriously rough on terrorists- however grisly his murder (and it was), it can hardly be portrayed as without precedent.

[burrrton]

They are every bit as bad or worse than Saddam.

Oh stop. The Sauds *hate* terrorists (for whatever reasons, not all of them philanthropic)- Saddam was, at the time, the world's biggest state sponsor of terror.

[RiverDog]

We're getting a little sidetracked here with our debate as to whether or not Saudi Arabia is any better or worse than Sadaam's Iraq. The point is that there exists what is apparently undeniable evidence that the Saudi government was complicit in the murder of an American citizen as everyone else except the Administration (Trump didn't even want to hear some of the recordings) that has reviewed evidence provided by our own intelligence service has concluded that the Saudi's and the Crown Prince are directly responsible for this heinous and barbaric act. Like he does on so many occasions, Trump believes only what he wants to believe, and has chosen to stick his head in the sand and wants to take a business-as-usual stance with a murderous regime.

Trump had a chance to get out in front of this and express his moral outrage and show the world that the United States condemns this type of behavior from any government, friend or foe. It's a good example of why I do not think that DJT is a worthy leader and will never vote for him.

[idhawkman]

I see where even Sen. Lindsey Graham, one of Trump's biggest Senate allies, has concluded that the Crown Prince has his fingerprints all over the Kaschoggi murder, saying that there's "[i]not a smoking gun, but a smoking saw" in reference to the tool used to dismember Kaschoggi's body.

...and???? You don't see Graham stating that we should isolate ourselves from them though.

The hell you don't! OK, smarty pants, here you go!

Graham said he would push legislation to sanction the crown prince and other high-level Saudis involved in Khashoggi’s killing and halt arms sales to the regime. He said he also wanted the Senate to pass a non-binding resolution naming Mohammed as responsible for Khashoggi’s death.

"Saudi Arabia's a strategic ally and the relationship is worth saving, but not at all costs," Graham said. "We’ll do more damage to our standing in the world by ignoring MBS" than by confronting him."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 199104002/

More importantly, what is your idea of a solution? Where would you like to see this go?

Ban arms sales, at least temporarily.

You and your boy Trump are all alone on this one. Would you for once admit that there might be something, anything that you think that Trump screwed up on? You really are making yourself look like Trump's puppet.

First, it is not over yet so you don't know what this administration will or won't do. Second, you are making yourself look like anything against Trump, otherwise known as TDS. So the axe swings both ways.

[RiverDog]

First, it is not over yet so you don't know what this administration will or won't do.

The only way Trump is going to take action will be if he does so to avoid an embarrassing Senate resolution. They are going to ban arms sales, so either Trump can go his own way and damage his relationship with Senate Republicans or he'll be brought kicking and screaming to their point of view. He had a chance to get out in front of this issue and show some leadership, but now that ship has sailed and the decision on what to do about the Saudis is going to be made by the Senate.

Second, you are making yourself look like anything against Trump, otherwise known as TDS. So the axe swings both ways.

I can cite a dozen examples of issues where I agreed with Trump on, such as voter ID, many parts of immigration reform like chain migrations, and 2 SCOTUS nominations, to name a few. Can you cite one major issue where you disagreed with him on?

[idhawkman]

We're getting a little sidetracked here with our debate as to whether or not Saudi Arabia is any better or worse than Sadaam's Iraq. The point is that there exists what is apparently undeniable evidence that the Saudi government was complicit in the murder of an American citizen as everyone else except the Administration (Trump didn't even want to hear some of the recordings) that has reviewed evidence provided by our own intelligence service has concluded that the Saudi's and the Crown Prince are directly responsible for this heinous and barbaric act. Like he does on so many occasions, Trump believes only what he wants to believe, and has chosen to stick his head in the sand and wants to take a business-as-usual stance with a murderous regime.

Trump had a chance to get out in front of this and express his moral outrage and show the world that the United States condemns this type of behavior from any government, friend or foe. It's a good example of why I do not think that DJT is a worthy leader and will never vote for him.

WHY do you insist on spreading FAKE news? Kaschoggi was NOT a US citizen. He was here only on a temporary work visa. "IF" he was a US citizen he would have been on US soil instead of Saudi Soil and wouldn't have been killed.

So you are advocating to send the US economy and millions of households into financial ruin because a citizen of a foreign government that is critical of that government was killed on that country's soil. Again, this exact same thing happens all over the world in numerous countries every day. I don't give two squirts about what other countries do to their citizens on their soil if it means ruining American citizen's lives.

[RiverDog]

WHY do you insist on spreading FAKE news? Kaschoggi was NOT a US citizen.

Thanks for the correction.

So you are advocating to send the US economy and millions of households into financial ruin because a citizen of a foreign government that is critical of that government was killed on that country's soil.

Yes, but I disagree with you that it will send "millions" of households into financial ruin.

[idhawkman]

The only way Trump is going to take action will be if he does so to avoid an embarrassing Senate resolution. They are going to ban arms sales, so either Trump can go his own way and damage his relationship with Senate Republicans or he'll be brought kicking and screaming to their point of view. He had a chance to get out in front of this issue and show some leadership, but now that ship has sailed and the decision on what to do about the Saudis is going to be made by the Senate.

We'll see. I think what Trump does will be proportionate to the situation and not an over reaction like you and some republican and all democrats want done. TBD.

I can cite a dozen examples of issues where I agreed with Trump on, such as voter ID, many parts of immigration reform like chain migrations, and 2 SCOTUS nominations, to name a few. Can you cite one major issue where you disagreed with him on?

And yet you posted the below without knowing who else will be running against him. That said, yes, I don't agree with Trump on giving a pathway to citizenship for the DACA kids.

It's a good example of why I do not think that DJT is a worthy leader and will never vote for him.

[RiverDog]

Get out your popcorn!

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/senate- ... d=59633529

[Hawktawk]

The comment about the money coming in is just a lie by you.

Trump said from the campaign stump in 2016 " I love the Saudis. They buy my condos, they stay in my hotels. I get millions of dollars from them. Why wouldnt I love them?"

Its well known he has business interests in their country as well .Shortly after the election the Saudis rented 500 rooms long term from Trump at his new york hotel even though many were left unoccupied. Several state attorney generals are currently suing the administration for business records to prove violations of the emolument clause by profiting off the presidency and these lawsuits have survived numerous legal challenges. Jarred boy is known to be extremely close to the punk prince and had spent over a week with him in Saudi arabia just before the Khashoggi murder directed by and monitored by the punk prince.

You're the one who is either delusional or just intentionally making stuff up, not me. It isn't those who detest this morally bankrupt retarded crazy witch who need their head examined. It's those who still defend the indefensible on any level and you're all in hook line and sinker .

[RiverDog]

I can cite a dozen examples of issues where I agreed with Trump on, such as voter ID, many parts of immigration reform like chain migrations, and 2 SCOTUS nominations, to name a few. Can you cite one major issue where you disagreed with him on?

And yet you posted the below without knowing who else will be running against him.

Yes. As I've said many times before, I don't so much have a problem with Trump's politics as I do the man himself. I see no hypocrisy in that position.

That said, yes, I don't agree with Trump on giving a pathway to citizenship for the DACA kids.

So the best response you can come up with is that you think Trump is too soft on immigration?

Sorry, my friend, but you're going to have to do a lot better than that if you want to convince me that you're not packing an ocean of water for him.

[burrrton]

That said, yes, I don't agree with Trump on giving a pathway to citizenship for the DACA kids.

*sigh*

The "DACA kids" are people that were brought here as children, have lived here the bulk of their lives, and had no say in whether they came here legally, illegally, or at all.

They've kept out of trouble (no criminals) and know no other home than America. What the h3ll do you want to do with them? Send them to a foreign country (to them) where they have literally no history or family, and likely don't even speak the language, because their parents made a bad decision a generation ago?

I don't get this compulsion. At all.

[Hawktawk]

The "DACA kids" are people that were brought here as children, have lived here the bulk of their lives, and had no say in whether they came here legally, illegally, or at all.

They've kept out of trouble (no criminals) and know no other home than America. What the h3ll do you want to do with them? Send them to a foreign country (to them) where they have literally no history or family, and likely don't even speak the language, because their parents made a bad decision a generation ago?

I don't get this compulsion. At all.

On this we completely agree. These young people add to this country, they don't subtract. Having employed many hispanic americans and legal green card carrying mexican citizens over the years I can attest that they are some of the finest hard working family oriented people on the planet. We should do the humane thing.

[idhawkman]

Get out your popcorn!

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/senate- ... d=59633529

Politics are messy. I hope you read this and see why I want to sit back for a while and assess the full ramifications of these actions. Lindsay has always been a bull in a china shop on international issues and this article really brings out why he should never be president or involved in any way internationally. I hope you really take the time to read this and see that there is an enormous amount at stake here. I'd also ask that you "consider" the possibility of a framing and who in all the players would benefit from such framing (and yes, include the CIA in that consideration too).

https://www.conservativereview.com/news/lindsey-grahams-push-for-regime-change-in-saudi-arabia-is-a-dangerous-mistake/

There's a lot at play here and an obscene amount of money to be had. The implications of it all have huge ramifications down the line. All parties stand to lose or gain including Turkey, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Israel, and the US including lawmakers, intel agencies, political foes and the media. So lets step back from impulse reactions and really consider what the fallout would be before we fly off the handle.

p.s. Corker admitted that anything the Senate does will only signal the Senate's position on the issue but not influence policy in any way.

[idhawkman]

Trump said from the campaign stump in 2016 " I love the Saudis. They buy my condos, they stay in my hotels. I get millions of dollars from them. Why wouldnt I love them?"

Its well known he has business interests in their country as well .Shortly after the election the Saudis rented 500 rooms long term from Trump at his new york hotel even though many were left unoccupied. Several state attorney generals are currently suing the administration for business records to prove violations of the emolument clause by profiting off the presidency and these lawsuits have survived numerous legal challenges. Jarred boy is known to be extremely close to the punk prince and had spent over a week with him in Saudi arabia just before the Khashoggi murder directed by and monitored by the punk prince.

You're the one who is either delusional or just intentionally making stuff up, not me. It isn't those who detest this morally bankrupt retarded crazy witch who need their head examined. It's those who still defend the indefensible on any level and you're all in hook line and sinker .

*Sigh* Good luck with that. He's not the guy in charge of his company anymore. Just like all the politicians who sign their portfolios over to "blind trusts" (wink wink) when they take office. No one is going to be able to get him on this but go ahead and waste the head space he's occupying in your mind over it for as long as you want to fantasize that it will turn into something.

[idhawkman]

So the best response you can come up with is that you think Trump is too soft on immigration?

Sorry, my friend, but you're going to have to do a lot better than that if you want to convince me that you're not packing an ocean of water for him.

No, you said that, it is not what I said. Nonetheless, I don't care what you are convinced of as it has no bearing on anything of import.

[idhawkman]

That said, yes, I don't agree with Trump on giving a pathway to citizenship for the DACA kids.

*sigh*

The "DACA kids" are people that were brought here as children, have lived here the bulk of their lives, and had no say in whether they came here legally, illegally, or at all.

They've kept out of trouble (no criminals) and know no other home than America. What the h3ll do you want to do with them? Send them to a foreign country (to them) where they have literally no history or family, and likely don't even speak the language, because their parents made a bad decision a generation ago?

I don't get this compulsion. At all.

There's a lot I can say about this but I'll only point out a few things.

1. The bible says that the sins of the father will be revisited on the family for 7 generations. Although the "fault" may not lie with the DACA kid themself, it doesn't mean that their problem has to become my and millions of other American's problem. We do lots of outreach programs to help foreigners come here and learn in our universities and then go home to make their world better. So a better solution would be to retrain them to re-integrate them back into their country. This would be beneficial to them, their home country and us in the US. Any other solution leaves someone out in the cold.

Before you bash me on this, we could teach them spanish, set them up with a business or in a business back in their country so that they could be successful there. That would raise their own economy and contribute back to the world as a whole instead of leaching off the world.

2. DACA is not a priority of the left so why should I try and care on the right? They were offered a pathway to legalization (not citizenship) but was outright rebuffed by the Dems. Maybe they (DACA) will hold the dems accountable if they face deportation.

3. Its not right to have people living in fear no matter where they are. Sending them back to where they are no longer "illegal" or making them "legal" are the only two solutions to solve DACA. Anything else is using these poor people as pawns and morally corrupt. Either legalize them NOW or send them home.

[RiverDog]

*sigh*

The "DACA kids" are people that were brought here as children, have lived here the bulk of their lives, and had no say in whether they came here legally, illegally, or at all.

They've kept out of trouble (no criminals) and know no other home than America. What the h3ll do you want to do with them? Send them to a foreign country (to them) where they have literally no history or family, and likely don't even speak the language, because their parents made a bad decision a generation ago?

I don't get this compulsion. At all.

Well said.

And keep in mind that states aren't even obligated to give "dreamers" in state college tuition rates even though their parents may have been paying state taxes for a decade or longer.

Polls have shown that just 1 out of 10 Americans do not support allowing DACA kids to stay in the country. About that same percentage think that it's acceptable to hold views espoused by neo-Nazis. (edit: I am NOT calling you a neo-Nazi. I'm just hoping that knowing those facts might cause you to reconsider your position).

According to the survey, almost 9 in 10 respondents — 87 percent — said they believe that the so-called Dreamers should be allowed to remain in the U.S. if they meet certain requirements, such as working or going to school.

Nine per cent of Americans say holding neo-Nazi or white supremacist views is acceptable, according to a new poll.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/28-appr ... d=49334079


https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing ... ts-to-stay

[burrrton]

The bible says that the sins of the father will be revisited on the family for 7 generations.

And common sense, decency, and the history of this country says you do no such thing.

DACA is not a priority of the left so why should I try and care on the right?

Because it's the right thing to do.

[RiverDog]

Before you bash me on this, we could teach them spanish, set them up with a business or in a business back in their country so that they could be successful there. That would raise their own economy and contribute back to the world as a whole instead of leaching off the world.

I'm going to try to refrain from any caustic, inflammatory characterizations, but even if your idea were to pass Congress and survive an almost certain court challenge, that's simply not a viable, workable suggestion. Do you think that thousands of dreamers are going to flock to those government schools and voluntarily sign up for something like that? Or do you intend on arresting, incarcerating, and forcing a curriculum upon them?

And is it just the Hispanics you are worried about, or are you going to have a program to teach native languages for those who hail from Vietnam, China, the Philippines, et al? There's over 1 million illegal immigrants from Asia alone, and that's before you consider those from eastern Europe and Africa. And are you going to find all those people jobs in their home countries? Your proposal is laughable.

If you're serious about helping the economies of countries like Mexico, then how about we establish a liberal trading relationship with them even if it is not monetarily advantageous to the USA? Help them create jobs in their own homelands and reduce the incentive for them to immigrate to this country. I'd rather use that tactic to reduce demand than throw money into a multi billion dollar, bottomless pit government project to build a border wall.

[idhawkman]

Well said.

And keep in mind that states aren't even obligated to give "dreamers" in state college tuition rates even though their parents may have been paying state taxes for a decade or longer.

Polls have shown that just 1 out of 10 Americans do not support allowing DACA kids to stay in the country. About that same percentage think that it's acceptable to hold views espoused by neo-Nazis. (edit: I am NOT calling you a neo-Nazi. I'm just hoping that knowing those facts might cause you to reconsider your position).

Although you are responding to Burrton on this I'm pretty sure the comment in Parens above is aimed at tme. If not please disregard. That said...

1. I have advocated for legalizing DACA kids, not citizenship though. I do believe what would be best for all is to send them back home so they can make their cultural home a better place for their Whole Family and not just the law breakers who brought them here.

2. So now you want to be a thought police? It is OK to have neo-nazi views. Its ok to have a lot of different views. That's what is so great about America, you can think for yourself without reprisal from the government. That said, you can not ACT on some of those views without consequence. Simply holding a view is not an offense against anyone here on earth, actions on the other hand may be an offense. I'm kind of surprised at you for falling for this fake poll the way you parse words so meticulously.

According to the survey, almost 9 in 10 respondents — 87 percent — said they believe that the so-called Dreamers should be allowed to remain in the U.S. if they meet certain requirements, such as working or going to school.

Nine per cent of Americans say holding neo-Nazi or white supremacist views is acceptable, according to a new poll.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/28-appr ... d=49334079


https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing ... ts-to-stay

[idhawkman]

Because it's the right thing to do.

Maybe that's why Trump tried to do something with the dems but the fact is, he doesn't have the votes in the senate to do the right thing without the support of the people who care less about DACA kids.