Gruden

[Uppercut]

Game passed him by?

Niners beating them to pulp. Ouch

Niner game a trap game for Hawks

[c_hawkbob]

They look just awful don't they?

I'm gonna give him a pass though for this year, trading Mack right outa the gate kinda indicated that his focus is on next year's draft anyway. That 10 year guaranteed contract is what gave him the latitude to set thing up for down the road, so that's what he's done.

[NineR]

We are doing what we do best! Scores of past games have not been indication of our talent. the dude above saying the 49nrs and hawks game maybe a trap is close to correct.

[RiverDog]

That's why several of us cautioned about getting too jacked up about our win over them in London. The Raiders are one of, if not the, worst team in the NFL.

The Raiders are looking a couple of years down the road when they move into their new digs in Las Vegas, in 2021 and their coach doesn't have to worry about being on the hot seat. This year is going to be nothing more than preseason games for them.

[Hawktawk]

Ill be making my annual pilgrimage with my lifelong friend to the clink Dec 2nd for the niners game. I picked it because I expected Jimmy G the italian stallion and this supposed dark horse SB contender were coming to town. Its been an awful injury filled year for them including their explosive back last night but this QB who started last night is a real bright spot. Beathard wasn't horrible and should have beaten the Pack in GB but my guess is the kid who played about as well as any player making his first start in NFL history is going to play the rest of the season. If Im Garoppolo I'm nervous about my future with the team depending on how the year plays out.

Granted, as the thread indicates Gruden is doing a horrible job and should have stayed in the booth. I wonder how mark davis feels having nearly A QUARTER OF A BILLION!!!!! wrapped up in an ineffective coach and a bad qb who is morphing into David.The next game will be a litmus test for whether the niners have stumbled onto something but the raiders are dreadful.

[NorthHawk]

There may be some players cut by the Raiders in the off season that could be of interest to us.
These things often happen when a coach with a different philosophy takes control.

On a side note, how has their OL looked since Cable took over (rhetorical question)?

[RiverDog]

Granted, as the thread indicates Gruden is doing a horrible job and should have stayed in the booth. I wonder how mark davis feels having nearly A QUARTER OF A BILLION!!!!! wrapped up in an ineffective coach and a bad qb who is morphing into David.The next game will be a litmus test for whether the niners have stumbled onto something but the raiders are dreadful.

Agreed on all counts. I honestly don't think Gruden cares or not if he wins any games this season. IMO he's so focused on rebuilding that he doesn't care about the present, and his big contract means that he doesn't have to worry about being fired. The team senses that their coach doesn't give a rip about winning, so all they're doing is going through the motions. Derek Carr has hit his peak and now has that deer in the headlights look, assumes the fetal position anytime the pocket starts to collapse.

The Raiders have 3 first round draft choices in 2019 and two in 2020, but if Gruden doesn't start instilling a winning attitude in the players currently on his roster, those draft picks aren't going to help the Raiders anymore than they've helped the Browns.

[NorthHawk]

I'm sure one of Gruden's picks will be Bosa to replace Mack.
I suspect another might be N'Keal Harry to replace Cooper or perhaps Parris Campbell if he wants speed.
Those two players alone clear up a lot of Cap space that would have been demanded had they re-signed them.

[RiverDog]

I'm sure one of Gruden's picks will be Bosa to replace Mack.
I suspect another might be N'Keal Harry to replace Cooper or perhaps Parris Campbell if he wants speed.
Those two players alone clear up a lot of Cap space that would have been demanded had they re-signed them.

That's the X's and O's analysis. IMO what Gruden is in danger of having happen is that his apparent indifference over the state of his current team could carry over into future years. As much grief as I gave those who championed Pete Carroll's style, one thing that he was never guilty of was indifference. He approached every game as if it were the Super Bowl, and that attitude was infectious. I don't get that sense from Gruden. He appears to me to be a little too smug, a little too self assured.

[politicalfootball]

Gruden, as I see it, is a fine coach but is looking at the big picture and that means next year. The Raiders are going to be great in a couple of years of rebuilding. Gruden, as I see it is right on course to have a team Stabler would be proud of.

[jshawaii22]

Draft picks alone don't mean squat. The Rams had tons of picks they wasted after they traded the #1 pick to Washington, until they got rid of Jeff Fisher, drafted the likes of Aaron Donald, Gurley and found out Goff could actually play. There is no guarantee that the Raiders will pick the next Mack or anything close.

There are but a couple of 'generational players' in each draft and some years (the year we drafted Aaron Curry) have none. Having high picks may increase your odds, but certainly doesn't guarantee anything.
What a mistake they made trading Mack -- Cooper was a good trade.

They may need a new QB next year, too, if Carr keeps playing like his Dad did... scared, he'll become another history lesson of a wasted career.

[curmudgeon]

Game passed him by?

Niners beating them to pulp. Ouch

Niner game a trap game for Hawks

Yes. Gruden should’ve stayed in the booth. Marginally better than the dreck now being served up.

Yes. Seattle must be very careful. Losing to SF will kill any playoff dream that may be dancing in their heads.....

[c_hawkbob]

In the only trade I can think of that compares to this one those draft picks draft picks the Cowboys got for Herschel Walker made all the difference in the world.

[RiverDog]

In the only trade I can think of that compares to this one those draft picks draft picks the Cowboys got for Herschel Walker made all the difference in the world.

The Cleveland Browns had two first round picks in 2014 and 2015, one in 2016, and two in both 2017 and 2018.

Like was said, draft choices don't mean squat unless they make good decisions with them.

[NorthHawk]

Every new coach wants to win or lose with his own guys whether it's FA pickups or draftees.
That's why we see a coach who has power clean house and especially so when a team wasn't
doing that great before. Some players just don't fit what new regimes want to do so they
are let go. Unfortunately for them it also often means mistakes are made when trading or
cutting players. Mack is probably one of those.

In making these wholesale changes of players one of the things they do is stockpile draft picks.
It's what they do to build their team in the way they envision it should look.
It looks like they will have an early if not top pick in the next draft so look for them to select
the best pass rusher on the board which is probably Bosa at this point. It wouldn't surprise me
if they also select a QB early if the rumblings I've heard is true about Gruden and Carr not always
being on the same page. A WR and LB are also needed to replace Cooper and Irvin.

Whether it's a dumb idea or not doesn't matter. The Raiders will be making more changes and
we may be able to poach some players off their squad that fit what we do pretty well.
There's now talk in Baltimore that Harbaugh could be out if they don't make the playoffs. That
might mean another team putting good players on the market so it could also benefit us as well.

[RiverDog]

I doubt that Mack and Cooper didn't fit with what the new regime wanted to do. They were traded to accumulate draft picks and save money, which could give the team the impression that he's given up on the season.

Just using us as an example, that's not what Pete did when he arrived here in 2010, although to be fair, I don't think that there was anyone on our 2010 roster that could have fetched a #1 pick. Nevertheless, Pete kept the core players in his first year and was able to patch together a division champ and set the tone for future teams.

Gruden's plan may work, but there's little doubt that he doesn't care about winning this season and that his team has mailed it in.

[idhawkman]

In the only trade I can think of that compares to this one those draft picks draft picks the Cowboys got for Herschel Walker made all the difference in the world.

I agree with Bob, the picks may not turn out to be much but they may also turn out to be the difference. Until they've been picked and play a year or two together we won't know which it is. That said, I'd put money on a SB winning coach and a coach that basically took 2 teams to the same SB.

[RiverDog]

That said, I'd put money on a SB winning coach and a coach that basically took 2 teams to the same SB.

Not sure what Chucky's record was at TB in the years after his SB win, but it wasn't pretty. He really hasn't had to build a team like he's being asked to do with this version of the Raiders.

But we'll see. The Raiders are obviously pointing towards fielding a SB contender by the time they get to Las Vegas

[c_hawkbob]

I agree with Bob, the picks may not turn out to be much but they may also turn out to be the difference. Until they've been picked and play a year or two together we won't know which it is. That said, I'd put money on a SB winning coach and a coach that basically took 2 teams to the same SB.

Yup, as of now they're Schrodinger's cat; they can be thought of as both a brilliant move and as a terrible one ... won't know till we open the box.

[NorthHawk]

The draft and the following UDFA signing are about selecting potential.
Sometimes it's a disappointment and sometimes it's an unexpected success.
But the bottom line is coaches who have the power of selecting personnel
usually want their guys to win or lose with.

We'll see how it goes in Oakland or rather Las Vegas when the new team has
been put together.

[idhawkman]

The draft and the following UDFA signing are about selecting potential.
Sometimes it's a disappointment and sometimes it's an unexpected success.
But the bottom line is coaches who have the power of selecting personnel
usually want their guys to win or lose with.

We'll see how it goes in Oakland or rather Las Vegas when the new team has
been put together.

I can't wait to go to a Seahawks game in Vegas. That will be real fun even if it is a preseason game.

[NorthHawk]

They're going to draw pretty well, but I wonder if they can develop a true home field advantage with the city being such a draw on its own.

[RiverDog]

They're going to draw pretty well, but I wonder if they can develop a true home field advantage with the city being such a draw on its own.

If they hit the ground running, like they did with their NHL franchise, then they can draw in the locals, which IMO is why you see them selling off their best players for draft picks. But even if they don't, they'll still sell tickets as visiting teams will scoop them up.

Unless the current scheduling format changes before then, the first time we'll play the Raiders in Las Vegas during the regular season will be in 2026.

[NorthHawk]

Can they draw enough locals and Raiders fans to give them HFA or will they be like we often see in Arizona with seemingly half the stands or maybe more being filled with the other teams fans?

[idhawkman]

If they hit the ground running, like they did with their NHL franchise, then they can draw in the locals, which IMO is why you see them selling off their best players for draft picks. But even if they don't, they'll still sell tickets as visiting teams will scoop them up.

Unless the current scheduling format changes before then, the first time we'll play the Raiders in Las Vegas during the regular season will be in 2026.

Is that because technically they were the home team this year so we will be in 2022? I didn't think they rotated that way for interconference play but I never understand how they determine those issues. E.g. we play the NFC North this year - it always seem slike we end up playing the same teams on their home field as opposed to ours.

[RiverDog]

Is that because technically they (Raiders) were the home team this year so we will be in 2022?

Yuppers. The Raiders volunteered to donate a home game to the International Series cause.

I didn't think they rotated that way for interconference play but I never understand how they determine those issues. E.g. we play the NFC North this year - it always seem slike we end up playing the same teams on their home field as opposed to ours.

We play each team in one of the AFC divisions each year, or once every 4 years for any given AFC team. We play each team in one NFC divisions once every three years, but in addition to the divisional rotation, we play the same place finisher in the two NFC divisions that we don't happen to be playing. This season, we're playing all teams from the NFC North and the same place finishers from the NFC South on the road (Panthers) and NFC East at home (Cowboys)

It's just a coincidence that we end up playing the same team every year. There for awhile, it seemed like we were always facing the Panthers back there.

[idhawkman]

We play each team in one of the AFC divisions each year, or once every 4 years for any given AFC team. We play each team in one NFC divisions once every three years, but in addition to the divisional rotation, we play the same place finisher in the two NFC divisions that we don't happen to be playing. This season, we're playing all teams from the NFC North and the same place finishers from the NFC South on the road (Panthers) and NFC East at home (Cowboys)

It's just a coincidence that we end up playing the same team every year. There for awhile, it seemed like we were always facing the Panthers back there.

I understood how the rotation worked I just can't figure out how they determine the venue for each game. As you pointed out, it always seemed like we played the panthers in their home until they came to the Clink for a playoff game. It also seems like we travel to Miami and TB more than we should but that could be my memory playing tricks on me.

[RiverDog]

I understood how the rotation worked I just can't figure out how they determine the venue for each game. As you pointed out, it always seemed like we played the panthers in their home until they came to the Clink for a playoff game. It also seems like we travel to Miami and TB more than we should but that could be my memory playing tricks on me.

The entire schedule, including the home/visiting status, is predetermined. We'll know exactly who we play and where next season on Sunday 12/30 by about 5pm Pacific. If we seemed to play certain teams on the road or at home all the time, it was just a coincidence or your memory playing tricks on you.

The venue is a little different. This season, we played an away game in London. A few years ago, we played the Bills in Toronto instead of Buffalo.