ET Reporting

[Aseahawkfan]

Rather than voting 'yea' or 'nay', I want John Schneider to either chit or get off the toilet. I'm tired of this drama.

Yep. I'd prefer Earl re-signed, but absent that make a move to get value and let both sides move on from the drama.

[idhawkman]

Nay

So says the guy that wants to get rid of our QB because he thinks we can easily find better. I love how easily you dispense with Hall of Fame talent. Real smart way to make your team better dumping your best players.

So says the guy that blows his wad on a couple of positions leaving other positions without any money or talent and holes that the opposing teams exploit weekly and then complains that no money is spent on those positions.

[HumanCockroach]

Certainly a void between allowing really "good" players walk, or trade, and HOF players walk or trade.... call it the Houschka or Irvin, or even Maxwell rule..... you have to make tough choices, but I wonder, where would NE be without Brady? how many SBs are won without Rice, Montana and Young? There's being frugal, and there's being foolish....

[Aseahawkfan]

So says the guy that blows his wad on a couple of positions leaving other positions without any money or talent and holes that the opposing teams exploit weekly and then complains that no money is spent on those positions.

That doesn't sound like me at all. That sounds like you. Constantly complaining about any player that doesn't perform perfectly each week and willing to dump all of them thinking you can replace them easily even when it is clear that is not the case. I don't think I've seen you advocate retaining a single player at market rate like you think draft replacements is easy as pie absent any evidence to support your idea.

My feeling has always been retain your best homegrown talent as long as they are still performing. That is historically how you build Super Bowl winning teams. It's not easy to find players as good as Earl and Russ in the draft. You certainly will pay as much or more trying to find them on the open market.

[idhawkman]

That doesn't sound like me at all. That sounds like you. Constantly complaining about any player that doesn't perform perfectly each week and willing to dump all of them thinking you can replace them easily even when it is clear that is not the case. I don't think I've seen you advocate retaining a single player at market rate like you think draft replacements is easy as pie absent any evidence to support your idea.

My feeling has always been retain your best homegrown talent as long as they are still performing. That is historically how you build Super Bowl winning teams. It's not easy to find players as good as Earl and Russ in the draft. You certainly will pay as much or more trying to find them on the open market.

You either need to stop skimming the boards or start taking your meds again if you think I want to spend huge money on one or two positions. The only people I want to perform perfectly or at least at a high level are those that have high paychecks.

[HumanCockroach]

Wait, so you're advocating low performance , low pay?

That seems pretty contrary to the whole ' Im a seahawks fan' first stance. Or are you simply wanting something for nothing ( which I understand, but also know it's a complete fantasy).?

[idhawkman]

Wait, so you're advocating low performance , low pay?

That seems pretty contrary to the whole ' Im a seahawks fan' first stance. Or are you simply wanting something for nothing ( which I understand, but also know it's a complete fantasy).?

Wow, way to go to an extreme. I guess you don't know good performance for good pay at all. Which makes the whole team GOOD. No, to you, you have to have one or two Great players and the rest suck. Or you jump to the other extreme and say all players suck. Someday, you may actually read what I write and understand but only if you quit going from one extreme to the other. That's bipolar behavior.

[HumanCockroach]

Nope, you're the one claiming jettison hof talent and hope you replace with similar talent at low cost. I'm asking a question, not making a statement.

You might want to keep from making claims about understanding, while jumping to claims of statements not made there. I've jumped no where, I understand that HOF talent doesn't just keep popping up willy, nilly through the draft and castoffs, so typically, when a team * ANY team* finds one or two, they make every attempt to KEEP them.

See NE, SF, PIT, BAL, etc, etc, etc..... you think Philly going to jettison Wentz first chance they get? He's currently not even IN that discussion ....

[Aseahawkfan]

And we get nothing in return for Earl. An entire elite secondary gone for nothing. Pete and John have lost my faith in their ability to manage talent. Pete gets too attached to players, then tries to play tough guy at the same time to the detriment of the team. Good GMs and HCs trade for value or sign the player, they don't do what Pete and John have done trying to maintain some kind of middle ground that screws the team. I think Pete has finally lost me, though I'd like to see what John can do absent Pete. Pete runs the show in Seattle and he's doing a bad job since that Super Bowl loss. Desperate trades, bad deals signed, mismanaged talent walking away with nothing gained, tough guy plays that leave the team with nothing and bad PR with the players, and generally poor management as though he is always of mixed ideas letting emotions and business fight to a bad outcome with the team. Couple that with bad clock management and an uninspired offensive coaching hires and I don't see the same energetic, business-like Carroll that took this team over with a vision that led to a Super Bowl. I see an unfocused Carroll with warring ideas within him that lead to nowhere.

[burrrton]

Pete and John have lost my faith in their ability to manage talent.

Earl just illustrated why you don't sign aging stars to 'break the bank' type contracts.

Yeah, in hindsight, it's easy to say we should have taken what we could get, but their firmness wasn't unreasonable contemporaneously.

[Aseahawkfan]

Earl just illustrated why you don't sign aging stars to 'break the bank' type contracts.

Yeah, in hindsight, it's easy to say we should have taken what we could get, but their firmness wasn't unreasonable contemporaneously.

Our situation is due to going on 3 years of poor team management. This Earl situation is just one more example of that poor management. They add up to a failed team.

This is not knee jerk just from Earl's situation This is from watching them with multiple players leaving without any compensation for the loss whatsoever, while they spend our precious draft capital on players from other teams we don't even retain to any great benefit. It's a bad way to run a team.

[HumanCockroach]

Eh, that injury validates Seattle's refusal to extend a HOF player, but on the flip side, it also validates Thomas stance... Thomas wanted an extension, because of circumstances exactly like this, Seattle didn't want to give one, because of circumstances like this. It doesn't validate one, while invalidating the other, simply means that Seattle's roll of the dice worked out.... this time....

Personally I'm not real interested in watching HOF players drafted and developed in Seattle win multiple SBS in another team's jersey. When you've got them, typically you try at least to keep them, unless you've got comparable talent there already. Seattle doesn't at the safety position ( or QB or MLB )... so not a particularly wise gamble... there's not much "win" in the entire situation. Your team is worse than it was at kickoff, you've created a rift with a HOF player, that still has influence within the current team, and you've received zero in return for gambling with his health.

The situation should have been handled months ago ( whether via trade, extension or something else) it wasn't, and the team, player, fans suffer for it.

[burrrton]

Thomas wanted an extension, because of circumstances exactly like this

Well, yeah, but Thomas' stance was one of "I want to continue to put tens of millions of dollars in the bank regardless of whether I'm on the job".

It's good work if you can get it, but as a fan of the team, sorry, Earl, but I want to be rooting for Seattle in the SuperBowl, not advocating for my season ticket $$ going to your great-great-grandchildrens' trust funds if I can help it.

If you didn't absolutely maximize your earning potential in the few years the NFL granted you on its rosters, blame your agent for not signing you to 1-year contracts.

If you so choose, I hope you enjoy retiring at age 30 with $90M in the bank and starting out in life where the rest of us started with $0 in the bank 10 years younger.

Turn your middle finger right back around and soak it in. Ungrateful prick.

[idhawkman]

Nope, you're the one claiming jettison hof talent and hope you replace with similar talent at low cost. I'm asking a question, not making a statement.

You might want to keep from making claims about understanding, while jumping to claims of statements not made there. I've jumped no where, I understand that HOF talent doesn't just keep popping up willy, nilly through the draft and castoffs, so typically, when a team * ANY team* finds one or two, they make every attempt to KEEP them.

See NE, SF, PIT, BAL, etc, etc, etc..... you think Philly going to jettison Wentz first chance they get? He's currently not even IN that discussion ....

Yeah well, what I wanted to avoid after signing him to a huge contract with guaranteed money happened today. At least we are spared the forteiture of huge bucks.

The point is moot now.

[idhawkman]

Turn your middle finger right back around and soak it in. Ungrateful prick.

Totally agree.

Whether people on this board like it or not, ET was coasting out there today letting people get behind him twice. The second time it cost him his season.

[burrrton]

Whether people on this board like it or not, ET was coasting out there today letting people get behind him twice. The second time it cost him his season.

For the record, I'm not accusing him of anything like this- I don't know if he was going balls out or had put it in neutral over the contract situation.

But the attitude that 'giving it your all' means you deserve whatever you demand is silly- he is a HOF talent, but he still depends on this little entity called "The NFL", within which you play under "salary caps", meaning most of the time teams can back dump trucks of cash up to your front door, other times they're unable.

He flipped off this team for not being able to do so right now.

[RiverDog]

Eh, that injury validates Seattle's refusal to extend a HOF player, but on the flip side, it also validates Thomas stance... Thomas wanted an extension, because of circumstances exactly like this, Seattle didn't want to give one, because of circumstances like this. It doesn't validate one, while invalidating the other, simply means that Seattle's roll of the dice worked out.... this time....

Personally I'm not real interested in watching HOF players drafted and developed in Seattle win multiple SBS in another team's jersey. When you've got them, typically you try at least to keep them, unless you've got comparable talent there already. Seattle doesn't at the safety position ( or QB or MLB )... so not a particularly wise gamble... there's not much "win" in the entire situation. Your team is worse than it was at kickoff, you've created a rift with a HOF player, that still has influence within the current team, and you've received zero in return for gambling with his health.

The situation should have been handled months ago ( whether via trade, extension or something else) it wasn't, and the team, player, fans suffer for it.

I guess it depends on what our true intentions were. If we were about to sign Earl to an extension and make him the highest paid safety in the league, then yes, we lucked out if Earl's ultimate fate was injury. But if we were just a few days away from trading him, then we got screwed, and will end up with nothing where we might have landed a couple of 2nd round draft choices.

Whether or not we keep home grown NFL talent on our team until the cows come home depends on a lot of things. If we are a SB contender, then sure, we do whatever it takes to keep them in the fold. But if we're rebuilding, it would depend on several things: Is he a good teacher for the younger players? Peyton Manning was said to not have any interest in mentoring his replacement, which may be one of the reasons the Colts let him walk.

These last few months, Earl was giving me the impression that despite his telling people that this was a "business", that he was being very selfish and didn't have a lot of interest in helping to develop our young secondary, so I can't say as I blame PC/JS for wanting to trade him.

[NorthHawk]

There was a report that the Seahawks turned down a 2nd round pick and were holding out for 2 2nds.
It's come back to bite them in the butt. Being greedy rarely works out.

[RiverDog]

There was a report that the Seahawks turned down a 2nd round pick and were holding out for 2 2nds.
It's come back to bite them in the butt. Being greedy rarely works out.

I saw the same report. KC has two 2nd round picks next season, so perhaps that fact helps explain why we upped our price.

The drama isn't over. The injury is not career ending, so if Earl still wants to play next season, anyone that wants to sign him is going to have to deal with us.

[NorthHawk]

Isn't this the last year of his contract?
If so, we would have to tag him to keep his rights.

[c_hawkbob]

I believe if we lost him next year to FA we stood to gain as much as a 3rd round compensatory pick, so a 2nd wasn't as sweet a deal as it may have seemed.

[NorthHawk]

I believe if we lost him next year to FA we stood to gain as much as a 3rd round compensatory pick, so a 2nd wasn't as sweet a deal as it may have seemed.

That would only be true if we didn't sign any FA's in the mean time.

[NorthHawk]

Apparently we were close to a deal, but who knows how accurate the story is.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2018/ ... omas-trade

[burrrton]

Being greedy rarely works out.

Agreed, but that's a two-way street, and Earl arguably lost a lot more than the Hawks.

[NorthHawk]

We both lost in this one.

[HumanCockroach]

The drama isn't over. The injury is not career ending, so if Earl still wants to play next season, anyone that wants to sign him is going to have to deal with us

Uh, no. Seattle will not be involved in Thomas circumstances unless they either franchise him, sign him or transition him. Considering they weren't on board with extending him, doubtful franchise or extension is even being considered ( unless I guess this team seriously over performs and becomes a SB contending team through magic or something) so likely, teams wanting to sign him, will not be dealing with Seattle in any way whatsoever.

[idhawkman]

Uh, no. Seattle will not be involved in Thomas circumstances unless they either franchise him, sign him or transition him. Considering they weren't on board with extending him, doubtful franchise or extension is even being considered ( unless I guess this team seriously over performs and becomes a SB contending team through magic or something) so likely, teams wanting to sign him, will not be dealing with Seattle in any way whatsoever.

I agree. Seahawks don't do that kind of thing. They let Sherman go without a big stink or tagging him, they let Lynch go before his contract was up and took a very low draft pick to release his rights and didn't ask for any of the signing bonus back. They'll most likely let Earl walk and move on. I hope they don't waste another moment on the guy.

[HumanCockroach]

I guess, I'm always strongly in favor of the best team being fielded. Especially a player that has shown the ability to play at obscene levels.... oh well, guess Thomas learned his lesson about helping a team out to retain their talent, he should have just left last contract, and taken more money from someone else instead of accepting less to remain in Seattle.

Live and learn.

[NorthHawk]

This was the risk side of the risk/reward that me and others were talking about during TC.
However, losing %500,000 per game is a big lure for anyone who wants more money.
It's early in the year, so he should be back at close to 100% by TC for any team he ends up with.
Having said that it might be problematic for some teams that he broke the same leg twice and
it could mean he gets much lower offers than he otherwise might.
I wonder if we offered him $10,000,000 per year and the closest another team offered was
around 7 to $8,000,000, would he stay or has he just had enough here?

[NorthHawk]

This was the risk side of the risk/reward that me and others were talking about during TC.
However, losing %500,000 per game is a big lure for anyone who wants more money.
It's early in the year, so he should be back at close to 100% by TC for any team he ends up with.
Having said that it might be problematic for some teams that he broke the same leg twice and
it could mean he gets much lower offers than he otherwise might.
I wonder if we offered him $10,000,000 per year and the closest another team offered was
around 7 to $8,000,000, would he stay or has he just had enough here?

Edit:
Then again, maybe not...

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2018/ ... -to-injury

[HumanCockroach]

Why wouldn't a HOF player be highly sought after with 5 to 7 years of NFL top defensive player ability?

[NorthHawk]

Broke the same leg twice in the same area and a depressed market for Safeties might mean some teams would want a discount for their risk.

[RiverDog]

Broke the same leg twice in the same area and a depressed market for Safeties might mean some teams would want a discount for their risk.

My understanding is that Earl's injury wasn't that bad, that it was a 'clean break' and its possible that he could still return this season. Speculation was that KC, with a pass defense ranked 31st in the league, might still be interested as they are in a win now mode with their eyes on the SB, but obviously would only be willing to give up a low round draft choice.

[idhawkman]

My understanding is that Earl's injury wasn't that bad, that it was a 'clean break' and its possible that he could still return this season. Speculation was that KC, with a pass defense ranked 31st in the league, might still be interested as they are in a win now mode with their eyes on the SB, but obviously would only be willing to give up a low round draft choice.

I'm no doctor but it seems to me when I broke bones at a fairly young age, it was only about 6 weeks for the break to heal. Then rehab for a couple weeks to build up the wind, stamina and I was back on the field. If it is only 8-10 weeks for him, he could be a valueable player to someone going into the post season. Oh wait, it'll be after the trade deadline. Nevermind. He would only be able to help us and I just don't see that happening after the clash this year with the FO.

[HumanCockroach]

Broke the same leg twice in the same area and a depressed market for Safeties might mean some teams would want a discount for their risk.

Doubtful, I trust that NFL front offices don't feel the same as fans about gambling on a player that is expected to return to full capacity with little issue. Especially one that was the highest rated defensive player this season.

I don't think any team would low ball Watt or Miller or any other high profile first ballot HOF type player were the available, nor a Gronk or any other elite talent ( many of which have had far more significant injuries than Thomas).