Russell Wilson needs to do better?

[Anthony]

[quote="NorthHawk"]Pete just said (among other things) that Wilson is pressing a little too much.
" in the long yardage situations, he needs to throw the football a couple times. We need to get rid of the ball and just give up on a play because it’s not happening and not take an additional pressure. So that just adds up and it makes it hard on him.”

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... ittle-bit/

He also said it was him dialing up all the long throws, which means Wilson needs to holdnit longer. I think we found one of our problems.

[Anthony]

[quote="idhawkman]

IN case you haven't noticed, Russ has lost a step and his bail out the back isn't fooling anyone anymore. Russ has to adapt if he wants to stay relevant. We all knew this day was going to come. It happens to everyone including Michael Vick who was the fastest QB in the league for a number of years and then all of a sudden he wasn't.[/quote]


Lol wrong or did not see thr scramble in the 4th. Shotty said thdy want to keep him in the pocker longer so he is hesitating.

[Zach]

Hello. From Jets fanboard.

I am not here to gloat on your misery or start trash talk. [I don't do that.]

First, I share your pain and frustration. I was watching last night's game, and I was grimacing with pain. Believe it or not, the Hawks game last night was eerily reminiscent of the Jets game during Rex Ryan era. Defense plays heroically for 3 quarters, but the offense starts a complete s*** show - only to see the defense crumble in the 4th quarter. So - there you have it. I am sorry to see your team suffer.

That said, I am here to tell you that, Russell Wilson shouldn't take the lion's share of blame. He really shouldn't. It's not his fault.

The scenery along the sideline literally shocked me, to the point where I had to register and share this bit with you all.

You guys should ask Pete Carroll just what the f*** he was thinking when he handed the OC reins to *Gulp!* Brian Schottenheimer. He is by far the most inept offensive coordinator I have ever seen in my entire life - and I have watched a LOT of football, my friends. Don't just take my words for it. Jets offense under Brian's evil clutch should tell you something. Chad Pennington never had a red-zone pick until *gulp!* he met Brian.

Don't stop there. Mark Sanchez might have been a flawed prospect, but his OC didn't help him. Case in point: the first play ever by Sanchez involved multiple motions and formation shifts, and consequently, it resulted in false start. Only Brian, my friend. Does it end there? Hell no. Sanchez played under Brian Schottenheimer for the first few formative years of his career, and by the time Brian was kicked out, Sanchez was basically done.

So if you haven't started yet, you guys should start calling for his head. Don't let your franchise QB suffer from the evil influence of Brian Schottenheimer.

Peace out.

[idhawkman]

Lol wrong or did not see thr scramble in the 4th. Shotty said thdy want to keep him in the pocker longer so he is hesitating.

Excuses, excuses. RW needs to change out of plays instead of blindly following whatever is called. if he can't do that, he's not a top tier QB.

[Anthony]

Excuses, excuses. RW needs to change out of plays instead of blindly following whatever is called. if he can't do that, he's not a top tier QB.

Lol you really need to watch the game with your eyes open. He did change the plays and they started moving the ball. The problem is you cant audible every time. Coaches dont like that. If you spent more time actually listening and watching you would have seen what happened in the 4th qtr that got Wilson yelling the F bomb at PC and Shotty. But i am sure you missed while trying to figure out how to blame wilson for everything. Or come up withnthe classic muliple excuses reply.

[Zach]

Excuses, excuses. RW needs to change out of plays instead of blindly following whatever is called. if he can't do that, he's not a top tier QB.

Here you see Russell trying to do just that. Schottenheimer (or Carroll? I wouldn't know.) kills it with time out.

https://streamable.com/s9f3z

Heed the warning. You guys have a good QB. Your OC will kill him. Save your QB. [And your franchise for that matter.]

[idhawkman]

Lol you really need to watch the game with your eyes open. He did change the plays and they started moving the ball. The problem is you cant audible every time. Coaches dont like that. If you spent more time actually listening and watching you would have seen what happened in the 4th qtr that got Wilson yelling the F bomb at PC and Shotty. But i am sure you missed while trying to figure out how to blame wilson for everything. Or come up withnthe classic muliple excuses reply.

Well he wasn't doing it for the first three quarters was he? RW only plays one quarter a game and that's the 4th quarter. Have you ever wondered what the score would be if he played all 4 quarters?

I'm not impressed with his conviction if that's what you call yelling at the HC and OC. Doesn't seem like he's committed to the play he audibled.

[Anthony]

Well he wasn't doing it for the first three quarters was he? RW only plays one quarter a game and that's the 4th quarter. Have you ever wondered what the score would be if he played all 4 quarters?

I'm not impressed with his conviction if that's what you call yelling at the HC and OC. Doesn't seem like he's committed to the play he audibled.

Dude once again read and watch. First he does not audible. Then when that is proven wrong you change to not ib Q1 etc. Read the thread "the problem" it makes it so obvious even you should be able to understand. Qtr1- qtr3 is Pete ball no audibling allowed, also no offense. Q4 Uptempo movement and scoring, audibling happens. You want to complain tell the HC who is running a system that does not work as opposed to a system that has proven it works.

[RiverDog]

Monday's loss wasn't unexpected, at least by me. But I thought our problems would be on defense more so than the other two units, with our linebacker core decimated by injuries and all the new blood we have everywhere else. Although a lot of the reason for our D's success was Mitch Turbisky's erratic arm, all things considered, the defense played well enough to win, particularly the way they played after the Bears last scoring drive.

Russell's had two games in as many weeks that went into the 4th quarter with a chance to win, but we couldn't get it done in either week. This one was ugly. Yes, he was getting pressured for most of the game and once again, took 6 sacks, obviously not all his fault. We've gone up against arguably the two best pass rushing teams in the league (Bears now lead the league with 10 sacks in 2 games). Plus our running game still hasn't gotten on track, our #1 receiver is out, the line still leaks like a sieve, and the entire offense is still getting used to the new scheme. Russell's only played for one OC in his entire professional year, so we have to keep reminding ourselves that he's going to have a learning curve just like anyone else.

But Monday was bad, one of the worst 4th quarters he's put out in a long time. The pick 6 was almost exclusively on him. Without having the benefit of watching any replays, I have no doubt that Penny didn't get the corner to buy his fake and turn his hips. But Russell has to know that having a running back that's primarily a 1st/2nd down back split out as a WR isn't going to instill a whole lot of fear into any cornerback and make them respect the deep threat like a speedy receiver would. The corner read the play like an open book and Russell served him up a pick 6. Then on the next series, Russell fumbles away any reasonable chance we had of making a comeback. Please don't tell me anymore about Russell's 4th quarter heroics. He has no more or no less than any other 2nd tier QB, and the point about our sub performance in Quarters 1-3 setting up many of those heroics is valid.

I know that this was going to be a rough year, but it's hard to get over losing two very winnable road games in the first two weeks of the season. These two teams were not at all scary. Neither one are playoff quality, and if we can't at least break even with teams like the Broncos, Bears, and the Cowboys, we're heading for a train wreck of a season.

But we'll see. Hope springs eternal. At least we won't have to be facing Von Miller or Kahlil Mack.

[idhawkman]

Monday's loss wasn't unexpected, at least by me. But I thought our problems would be on defense more so than the other two units, with our linebacker core decimated by injuries and all the new blood we have everywhere else. Although a lot of the reason for our D's success was Mitch Turbisky's erratic arm, all things considered, the defense played well enough to win, particularly the way they played after the Bears last scoring drive.

Agree with you on this. I thought our offense would have to score a lot of points to give us a chance. The defense stepped up big. That's an encouraging sign for the season. I really like where our LBs are once we get KJ and Bwags back. I really liked what I saw from Calitro, Kendricks and even McDougald when he would move down and play LB a few times. I really like both our safeties and if Griffin can go for the ball like he did on the deep pass, he may be real good too.

I'm still a little concerned about our front 4 though and I'm not sure if Tre will be able to lock down that other CB spot. If either can be fixed, it would be a great thing for the year.

Offense???? I'm really hoping that Shotty and RW can figure this thing out and that maybe we should move Sweezy back to LG and put in Fluker when healthy.

[idhawkman]

Oh, and I really don't like Lockett returning kicks.

[RiverDog]

Oh, and I really don't like Lockett returning kicks.

Which brings up a question for anyone reading this: Can someone please explain to me WTF Lockett was thinking when he fielded a bouncing punt inside the 5 yard line with several defenders surrounding the careening oddly shaped sphere?

Plays like that piss me off almost as much as losing very winnable games.

[idhawkman]

Actually, I think it was a smart play by Lockett on that River. The defense had already touched the ball so it could not be a turnover and I think he gained possession of the ball in the end zone. I think that was where PC should have challenged the ruling on the field as down at the one. Pretty sure he would have won the challenge and it would have come out to the 20.

[RiverDog]

Actually, I think it was a smart play by Lockett on that River. The defense had already touched the ball so it could not be a turnover and I think he gained possession of the ball in the end zone. I think that was where PC should have challenged the ruling on the field as down at the one. Pretty sure he would have won the challenge and it would have come out to the 20.

OK, that makes more sense. I couldn't see it from my perspective (opposite end zone) and didn't hear any explanation. Thanks for setting me straight.

[mykc14]

Here you see Russell trying to do just that. Schottenheimer (or Carroll? I wouldn't know.) kills it with time out.

https://streamable.com/s9f3z

Heed the warning. You guys have a good QB. Your OC will kill him. Save your QB. [And your franchise for that matter.]

I’ve been trying not to post too much on this topic because I’m following Cbob’s 5-year rule, but watching this on Monday ticked me off more than most things. Why on earth would a coach call a time out when the QB has changed a play into something they like with plenty of time left on the play clock???? A rookie- yeah. A crappy backup- sure, but you do not do that to an established starter/pro-bowler/top 5-10 QB in this league.COME ON!!! What a waste of a time-out! Something is not right.

As to your point about Schottenheimer it was one of my ‘nail in the coffin’ moments for PC. It was at that point that I knew he was never going to change. He will always run his offense using his Pete-Ball philosophy, which Schottenheimer fits to a T. He had an opportunity to hire a dynamic offensive signal caller who could have had free-reign to design an offense around one of the most dynamic players who have ever played QB but instead he goes with boring only in the NFL because of my dad Schottenheimer... my hat is off to PC for where he has taken us as a franchise and I really do like him as a coach but PC’s unwillingness to change his offensive philosophy when he has a dynamic player at the most important position in sports is going to be his undoing. I really hope it works out and RW turns Schott’s crap offense into something decent or PC realizes that he needs to let the offense take risks throughout the whole game, but if he didn’t do it when he had the chance with his OC hire, why would he do it now?

While I’m mid-rant his comments about RW needing to throw the ball away in long yardage situations when nothing is there is just crap as well. You want a guy who has spent his whole career making something out of nothing to suddenly stop trying to make those plays when the offense NEEDS a spark? 3 and out... 3 and out... 3 and out... 80 yards through 3 quarters... 1 yard in the 3rd Q... yeah he needs to throw it away. You need to turn the Offense over to him and let him take some risks early in games. Playing PC ball there is no way he throws that TD pass to Lockett in the first 3 quarters, the coverage was too tight (how did we not get called for lineman down field on that one?). He needs to have the freedom to make those plays all game long!!

[RiverDog]

I’ve been trying not to post too much on this topic because I’m following Cbob’s 5-year rule, but watching this on Monday ticked me off more than most things. Why on earth would a coach call a time out when the QB has changed a play into something they like with plenty of time left on the play clock???? A rookie- yeah. A crappy backup- sure, but you do not do that to an established starter/pro-bowler/top 5-10 QB in this league.COME ON!!! What a waste of a time-out! Something is not right.

As to your point about Schottenheimer it was one of my ‘nail in the coffin’ moments for PC. It was at that point that I knew he was never going to change. He will always run his offense using his Pete-Ball philosophy, which Schottenheimer fits to a T. He had an opportunity to hire a dynamic offensive signal caller who could have had free-reign to design an offense around one of the most dynamic players who have ever played QB but instead he goes with boring only in the NFL because of my dad Schottenheimer... my hat is off to PC for where he has taken us as a franchise and I really do like him as a coach but PC’s unwillingness to change his offensive philosophy when he has a dynamic player at the most important position in sports is going to be his undoing. I really hope it works out and RW turns Schott’s crap offense into something decent or PC realizes that he needs to let the offense take risks throughout the whole game, but if he didn’t do it when he had the chance with his OC hire, why would he do it now?

While I’m mid-rant his comments about RW needing to throw the ball away in long yardage situations when nothing is there is just crap as well. You want a guy who has spent his whole career making something out of nothing to suddenly stop trying to make those plays when the offense NEEDS a spark? 3 and out... 3 and out... 3 and out... 80 yards through 3 quarters... 1 yard in the 3rd Q... yeah he needs to throw it away. You need to turn the Offense over to him and let him take some risks early in games. Playing PC ball there is no way he throws that TD pass to Lockett in the first 3 quarters, the coverage was too tight (how did we not get called for lineman down field on that one?). He needs to have the freedom to make those plays all game long!!

I made similar comments over in the Pete Carroll thread. The only thing thus far that has impressed me about Schott's offense is his increased involvement/emphasis of the tight end position. That's one of the mistakes Bevell made, ie bringing in a soft pass catching tight end by sacrificing a Pro Bowl center and a #1 draft pick. Picking up Dissly is one of the bright spots in our draft, and I'm sure that Schott had a major hand in it.

You're right about those timeouts. Taking two 2nd half timeouts on offense in non critical situations was absurd and one of the factors that prevented a late 4th quarter come back. Despite all our problems with pass protection, ie 12 sacks in 2 games, we've now had two straight winnable games where the offense has failed in the 4th quarter. Although I've tended to assign more of that blame on Russell than I have the OC, Schott has to take his share of responsibility. For whatever reason, the offense isn't getting it done.

I'm following Cbob's 5 year rule, too, sort of. I gave PC/JS another year simply because he recognized that the current means were not getting it done and that the team had drifted into mediocrity, and that he finally held Bevell accountable for his mistakes. But it stops there. Pete's hiring of a Good Ole Boy from his past for his OC has raised eyebrows. The reports about the locker room discord over the past few years have disturbed me, particularly those centering around Pete giving preferential treatment to his QB because they fit to a 'T' my fears about him when he was hired. If this teams falls off the cliff and goes something like 4-12, there's a good chance that I'll be off the bandwagon.

I'm OK with a one or two year rebuild, but a 4-12 season would indicate that there's a lot more wrong with this team than just a few of its components.

[NorthHawk]

It depends on how a 4-12 season came about for me to fall off the bandwagon.
If it turns out we have more key injuries, then it can be understandable to an extent, but if it's simply not adapting to today's Offensive reality then I'd be with you.
I think Pete's involvement in the Offense should be limited to pointing out the weaknesses of the opposing team's Defense and let the Offensive coaches figure out the best game plan without restrictions.
I know it won't happen, but that's what is needed.

[Uppercut]

If we go like 0-10 and then win the last 5-6 games I would be OK. Sort of like the Niners did last season. If we go out like it starts then its a problem.

Any talk of playoffs this season is just "Crazy-talk"

[Hawktawk]

Excuses, excuses. RW needs to change out of plays instead of blindly following whatever is called. if he can't do that, he's not a top tier QB.

Interesting you made that comment about changing the play Id. I recently saw an interview with Lynch and some hip hop type guy, very informal replete with Lynch dropping F bombs etc. Not to drag everyone through it again but "the play" in 49 came up. Lynch said when the play came in the huddle from the sidelines there was a look of "confusion" on the face of everyone including Russ. He says Russ asked "should I change the play"? In hindsight yes Russ you should have. To be fair we really don't know how often Russ audibles anyway.

As for him having "lost a step" I dont buy that at all. On the pick 6 he ran down a streaking corner who had the angle, overran the tackle actually. He definitely isn't fooling anyone with the bail out the back move. Better to throw it away or eat it and SECURE IT!!! get what you can running towards the line than cost your team 15 or 20 yards before punting or turn it over on a strip sack. Houston we have a problem whatever it is. Mite be a long season....

[RiverDog]

As for him having "lost a step" I dont buy that at all. On the pick 6 he ran down a streaking corner who had the angle, overran the tackle actually. He definitely isn't fooling anyone with the bail out the back move. Better to throw it away or eat it and SECURE IT!!! get what you can running towards the line than cost your team 15 or 20 yards before punting or turn it over on a strip sack. Houston we have a problem whatever it is. Mite be a long season....

There's no way for us to sit here and quantify one way or another if Russell has lost a step, but common sense would indicate that a nearly 30 year old male's peak physical performance is behind him. There are physical freaks of nature that defy the odds, like Nolan Ryan throwing a 95mph fastball into his 40's, but the chances are that Russell is slower today than he was when he was a 22 year old rookie. How much or if it it's enough to make a difference is debatable, but I wouldn't bet my chewing gum on the proposition that he's just as fast now as he was 7 years ago.

[HumanCockroach]

How long have I been complaining about the back to the line of scrimmage, signature move? Yeah, that's the first game, rookie year...

To be fair, there's been some insanely exciting plays, but it has worked, less, and less often, at this point, pretty much never. Defenses no longer rush the pocket, they rush 5 to 7 yards past the pocket, and bring A gap blitzes... the way you beat that is to move up and out, or you throw the ball quickly with anticipation... when 7 or 8 are coming, you have open receivers. If you are LOOKING at them instead of your own endzone.

[HumanCockroach]

( RD he was never a 22 yr old rookie)

[RiverDog]

( RD he was never a 22 yr old rookie)

23

OK, 23 then. I have a hard time counting past 5, have to unzip my fly to get to 6.

[HumanCockroach]

Hmmm... thought he was actually 24yr old, could be wrong though....

[RiverDog]

How long have I been complaining about the back to the line of scrimmage, signature move? Yeah, that's the first game, rookie year...

To be fair, there's been some insanely exciting plays, but it has worked, less, and less often, at this point, pretty much never. Defenses no longer rush the pocket, they rush 5 to 7 yards past the pocket, and bring A gap blitzes... the way you beat that is to move up and out, or you throw the ball quickly with anticipation... when 7 or 8 are coming, you have open receivers. If you are LOOKING at them instead of your own endzone.

The reverse spin worked the first few years, but you're right, it's not fooling anybody now. Teams know of his reluctance to step up into the pocket and that he's fallen in love with that reverse spin. Edge rushers, instead of aiming at a 10 yard imaginary point behind the LOS, are going to a spot a couple yards deeper than they normally would, which forces the tackles to go out there with them and as a result, horizontally stretching the entire line and opening up gaps, and makes the entire OL's job that much more difficult. It certainly doesn't explain every sack, but he's not making things easy for his OL.

That's one of the things that I'm saying Russell needs to change in his game, ie do better. I have no doubt that he has the ability to make such adjustments, but after these past two games, I wonder if he has the coaching and the system to do so.

[HumanCockroach]

Certainly looks and feels like they've become stagnant ( coaching philosophy and QB play) a reverse spin can still work if it's PART of the game, Wilson is a great deep ball passer, but that does NOT mean every pass should be one, play action only works, if you actually hand the ball off and draw the safeties up.... it all works in unison, defenses game plan for TENDENCIES, and at this point, that's all this offense IS.

[RiverDog]

Certainly looks and feels like they've become stagnant ( coaching philosophy and QB play) a reverse spin can still work if it's PART of the game, Wilson is a great deep ball passer, but that does NOT mean every pass should be one, play action only works, if you actually hand the ball off and draw the safeties up.... it all works in unison, defenses game plan for TENDENCIES, and at this point, that's all this offense IS.

An old wise man once told me that an overdone strength becomes a weakness, and that's certainly the case with Russell and his reverse spin move. Couple that with his penchant for holding onto the ball and you have a recipe for a 6 sack game.

Russell has always taken significantly deeper drops on the conventional 7 step drop than other QB's. Perhaps it's because of his height, that he can see over the linemen better, but he's clearly uncomfortable stepping up into the pocket unless there's a situaion like the parting of the Red Sea.

[HumanCockroach]

Nice first half against Dallas.... can we hope they've woken up? Back foot deliver the ball, keep running the ball, open up the passing game, now its when you take your second down play action shot, not on 6 of the first 9 plays, that defense continues to creep up....

[idhawkman]

Couple of observations today.

1. The oline did much better run blocking today. Was that because of the line calls by Joey Hunt or because Fluker was in? Also looked like Sweezy should be starting LG, IMO.

2. RW got rid of the ball much quicker today and the routes run were part of that. Made the Oline look much better also.

So it all has to fit together. Our Oline isn't that bad if the plays called are consistent with their abilities. RW has more confidence (did you see the needle he threaded to Lockett for the TD?) and is a better passer when the game plan fits the Oline and the Oline then give RW a bit more time.

I think it all started with FLuker and Ifedi pushing the D backwards 5 yards on multiple run plays though.