Russell Wilson needs to do better?

[Anthony]

Don't really disagree, but I'm not sure of this yet. I just think (as I read in fieldgulls, I think) his internal clock is all wonked up. He hears phantom footsteps now, and either his first read is there or it's not and he bails. Predictably, it seems.

I just hope they get it worked out- would be a shame to waste a QB with this much potential because of a historically bad o-line.

Agreed, however with regards to system we in 2015 what he can do in a system built for him. The problem is the HC does not want to run it. He wants his system.

[HumanCockroach]

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/9/13/17 ... ts-seattle

2nd part of the all 22 break down.... pretty much echoed what some of us have been saying for about 3 yrs.

The end of this article is KEY... it isn't all on Wilson, however, he MUST progress beyond these issues to become a truly great QB, decisions, mechanics and situational awareness need to improve.

It's like having a Ferrari that only goes to 3rd gear.... Wilson's arc was that of a first ballot HOF , multiple championship type QB, but at some point, he ceased growing, became infatuated with the big play over making the smart play, and lost what it is that he was ( that 9 game stretch was as well as I've seen any QB EVER play, including Montana, Young, Marino, Brady, Rodgers.... name them ..) during that time, the offense was "organic" no force feeding weapons, no by passing sure first downs for bigger plays down the field, the ball came out quick, on time, and on target, and was PREDICATED on short to mid range throws with an OCCATIONAL deep shot ( currently it is the REVERSE of that, and has been since that stretch).

Whether that's coaching philosophy ( doubtful, as I have serious doubts Carroll isn't capable of realizing that the offense and Wilson were historically successful during that stretch) , protection issues ( possible, but also unlikely, as I doubt Wilson, the OC, and HC aren't aware that the best way to protect against those issues is exactly what that stretch worked on, short to intermediate throws, that are delivered quick and on time) , inability to read defenses ( absolutely don't see this as the case. wilson is incredibly intelligent), or what exactly.... perhaps it's a combination, but the truth is, unless Wilson/ Carroll and co, address and resolve it, there's no way, Wilson will ever stand on that platform in Canton.

[Aseahawkfan]

Unreal that some article from some fan fashioning himself an expert watching the All-22 film is going to hold Russell back from Canton. Give it a rest already. The only thing that will hold Russell back from Canton is injury if he continues doing what he's doing. He's one of the most productive QBs in the league as he is now. If he gets to the "next level" as some of you are calling it, he'll be the best QB in the league bar none.

It's one thing to say, "Hey, Russell could do better making some reads and getting the ball out to avoid sacks." It's an entirely another thing to make all these assumptions about his lack of perfection as holding him back from Canton or hurting our team. I know many fanbases are this spoiled and ridiculous as it is the nature of being a fan. I can't stomach it very well. Wilson's like about the last thing on my list of what needs to be improved on this team. Sure, I want to see him run the quick hitting offense better so he avoids sacks and injury. But he still played a hell of a game in Denver with almost all new receivers and a weak and new O-line. Kept us in that game all the way to the end. We have almost any other QB and we lose much worse.

It's amazing that we have much bigger problems on this team and here'st this group of "expert" Seattle fans that all they seem to do is focus on bashing on the QB. I'll make any one of you a bet right now that barring a career ending injury, Russell Wilson is going to be a first ballot HoFer. It won't matter if he seriously elevates or continues to put the stats he does right now. If he elevates game for 2 or 3 years, he's the best QB in the league. Right now he averages about 4500 yards a year total and about 26 TDs.

So who wants the bet? I'll bet up to 5 of you a $100 each that barring a career ending injury, Russell is a first ballot of HoFer and the first Seattle QB in the Hall. And he doesn't have to play any better than he is right now. Playing better is just a luxury to me. As it is a QB averaging 4500 yards of production with 26 TDs to 10 ints is an elite level QB most teams would die to have.

But not Seattle fans like Human Cockroach or ID Hawkman. That's not a first ballot HoFer. Doesn't matter if those stats are well on track to match Brady or Manning. That All-22 film by the "expert" at field gulls who still states in the same article that Russell is an Elite QB is right. When I read that article you could tell the writer was criticizing, but still thought Russell was awesome. Just like I don't toss Riverdog on that list because I think he still thinks Russell is awesome, he just gets overly critical after a loss.

But fans like Human Cockroach and [bi]Idhawkman[/b] think they know better what's great and they can't even see it when it's right in front of them. Russell's bad game was a great game by almost any other QB standards. Russell is so good that Seattle fans watch a 3 TD, 300 yard game we lost by 3 points with two missed field goals, a new young team with a very young defense, and missing our number one receiver for half the game as a bad game because of sacks and a couple of turnovers. Just ridiculous.

So first five of you to want the bet, I'll take it. We been doing this thing on forums for ten plus years now. We'll hopefully all still be around. Five of you, a hundred bucks each that Russell is a first ballot Hall of Famer as long as he maintains his current statistical production and doesn't have a career ending injury. No QB his height has ever played as well as Russell. Put your money where your mouth is.

[RiverDog]

The only thing that will hold Russell back from Canton is injury if he continues doing what he's doing. He's one of the most productive QBs in the league as he is now.

That's not true at all. For any quarterback to reach the HOF bar, they will need multiple league MVP/SB MVP awards, and he's not going to get either of those by playing for a team that goes 9-7 and misses the playoffs or even makes the playoffs but doesn't go deep into them. Tony Romo and Phillip Rivers were never even even whispered as a leagues MVP and obviously never even played in a SB and consequently will never even be mentioned as a HOF candidate because they failed to get their teams over the hump and competing for Lombardi's. Russell's/the teams current path from the past 3 seasons and what we've seen so far in 2018 does not include future SB's or league MVP's for anyone playing on this team unless we improve from what we are today. A defensive player or lineman, like JJ Watt, Earl, et al, can make the HOF w/o the team doing well, but for a QB to get there, their teams must have sustained success.

I, too, was somewhat confused as to why Bevell didn't continue to use the offense from the 2nd half of the 2015 season. But I doubt that you'll see any attempt to install such an offense, or at least not all components of that offense, as that is not the preference of our current OC. That doesn't mean that Russell and the team can't excel with Schott's offense, to the contrary, he put up some very good numbers from last week's game and we did score 24 points, good enough to win most games and is something that both him and the team can build on.

But Russell's going to have to quit taking big sacks and start making smarter decisions with the football if both him and the team expect to go anywhere. We'll only go as far as our QB can take us, especially with the defense in the current state that it is.

[mykc14]

Tony Romo and Phillip Rivers were never even even whispered as a leagues MVP and obviously never even played in a SB and consequently will never even be mentioned as a HOF candidate because they failed to get their teams over the hump and competing for Lombardi's.

Really? Come on River. You don’t think either one of these QB’s will ever “even be mentioned” as HOF candidates? Of course they will. Will they get in, probably not, but if Rivers gets a SB (no MVP or SB MVP) he will probably get in...

[mykc14]

http://seahawksdraftblog.com


A great article discussing this topic. This is what I have been arguing for some time now- scheme. Not Bevells scheme or Schott’s scheme, but Pete’s. This is Peteball. An emphasis on the run game and ‘explosive’ passing plays that take a long time to develop and offer little short/intermediate options. The only time the Hawks constantly went away from this tactic, IMO was the second half of 2015 when RW put up historically good numbers.

[RiverDog]

Really? Come on River. You don’t think either one of these QB’s will ever “even be mentioned” as HOF candidates? Of course they will. Will they get in, probably not, but if Rivers gets a SB (no MVP or SB MVP) he will probably get in...

OK, fair point about my "even be mentioned" comment as I was being a little over dramatic in order to make my point. I'll change it to serious consideration.

I disagree that Phillip Rivers gets in with one SB appearance and w/o a league or SB MVP. If he wins a ring, then it might get him some "serious consideration." IMO he'd need an Elway-like finish to his career to get in, but the clock is ticking. At this point, Rivers is destined to take his place along with Dave Krieg and Vinny Testeverde in that they put up some impressive career numbers that otherwise would have qualified them for a gold jacket but never got to the SB. The only QB in the modern era that has gotten a jacket w/o a league/SB MVP was Dan Marino.

Drew Brees has some pretty decent career numbers and he has a ring/SB MVP and will get some "serious consideration", but IMO he's going to need something else on his resume to get into the HOF.

The point is that IMO Russell's current career path derived from the past 3 seasons performance (which obviously includes the team's performance) is not going to get him into the HOF. He doesn't need to completely re-invent himself, but he's going to have to make some adjustments.

[Anthony]

http://seahawksdraftblog.com


A great article discussing this topic. This is what I have been arguing for some time now- scheme. Not Bevells scheme or Schott’s scheme, but Pete’s. This is Peteball. An emphasis on the run game and ‘explosive’ passing plays that take a long time to develop and offer little short/intermediate options. The only time the Hawks constantly went away from this tactic, IMO was the second half of 2015 when RW put up historically good numbers.

Exactly

[RiverDog]

http://seahawksdraftblog.com


A great article discussing this topic. This is what I have been arguing for some time now- scheme. Not Bevells scheme or Schott’s scheme, but Pete’s. This is Peteball. An emphasis on the run game and ‘explosive’ passing plays that take a long time to develop and offer little short/intermediate options. The only time the Hawks constantly went away from this tactic, IMO was the second half of 2015 when RW put up historically good numbers.

I can understand and agree with your premise, but that's not really the point. Changing Pete's offensive philosophy is a different subject separate from Russell's performance and probably isn't going to happen anytime soon. Russell is going to have to work within the framework of Pete's scheme, so the issue is how is he going to improve his play and with it the team's prospects given the current conditions.

[HumanCockroach]

If you refuse to see what is on the film, it really isn't my issue. To become a HOF Quarterback, he must fix the issues that have plagued him for three years. This isn't the only game, article or breakdown of these mechanical and decision making issues, and I am not at any point going to apologize for calling a spade a spade. If some refuse to acknowledge what is documented, then, that's in them, not me.

I posted the link because it gave video proof of what I've been pointing out for 3 very long, tedious years, with being continually accused of "hating" Wilson ( which is asinine, I love the guy, enough to be HONEST with it), or some irrelevant game stat info.... I DON'T CARE about stats, WINS master a hell of a LOT more than stats, this isn't fantasy football. 400 and 4 TDS scrambling back into a game is stuff for Blake Bortles three years ago, NOT Wilson...

[Anthony]

If you refuse to see what is on the film, it really isn't my issue. To become a HOF Quarterback, he must fix the issues that have plagued him for three years. This isn't the only game, article or breakdown of these mechanical and decision making issues, and I am not at any point going to apologize for calling a spade a spade. If some refuse to acknowledge what is documented, then, that's in them, not me.

I posted the link because it gave video proof of what I've been pointing out for 3 very long, tedious years, with being continually accused of "hating" Wilson ( which is asinine, I love the guy, enough to be HONEST with it), or some irrelevant game stat info.... I DON'T CARE about stats, WINS master a hell of a LOT more than stats, this isn't fantasy football. 400 and 4 TDS scrambling back into a game is stuff for Blake Bortles three years ago, NOT Wilson...

Wins are all that matter and you have been saying this for 3 long years so let's see 3 years would be 2015-2017. So what was our record over that 3 years time lets see....29 - 18 -1 for 604 winning % so I guess that he is winning so all is good thanks for clearing that up. However, let's compare against Aaron Rodgers of course only counting games he played in. since unlike Wilson he has missed some. So Rodgers was 24-39 for a 612 winning % HMMMM. So Wilson is right there with the consensus #1 or 2 QB in the league but according to you he is less than adequate. HMMMM

[jshawaii22]

Comparing AR to Russell: If you believe in the football gods, the playoff game before the 2nd SB is a prime example of the difference between Aaron and Russell. Outplayed for 55 minutes to the point of it becoming a tragic comedy of errors on Russell's part, the only thing i can figure is that like Tim Tebow in his one playoff win, that God must be a football fan and if you pray enough, he will assist, like he did for Russell and the team in that last 5.5 minutes and finished it with the God Bless Us Ball to Kearse to win it.
But such that it is, he only gives you ONE lighting bolt at a time... so the SB is what it is.

Russell is not Aaron Rodgers and never will be. Not saying he's not damn good and a ring on his finger, but he's simply not that super top level of QB. I'll take it.

[HumanCockroach]

Cling to those numbers folks, insist he isn't running into sacks, by passing open receivers, holding the ball to long..... cling to them( because ultimately people not holding him accountable, or demanding better ie :fanboys or jock sniffers, are a BIG part of the problem imho people INCAPABLE of even acknowledging a SINGLE mistake, much less MULTIPLE issues keeping Wilson from the levels of truly historical play), the proof is there, has been there, will be there game in and game out, for anyone to see. Bury your heads, and when everything is said and done, if he doesn't address them, moan and whine about enshrinement that will not be forthcoming, scream about biases, and the unfairness of it all, whine about his statistics until you're blue in the face....

I'll be busy getting sad, and disappointed that so much HOF talent wasn't realized...

[NorthHawk]

The problem with Pete's scheme is at it stands today - and maybe with the lack of good OL talent throughout the league it can't work as well as it would have 20 years ago, our OL isn't up to the task of regularly giving the QB enough time.
Complicate that with Russ's penchant for holding onto the ball too long and some other bad habits he has developed and it can hinder the Offense considerably. Pete, for all of his good qualities, seems to be trying to make the players fit his
system instead of allowing the OC to make the system fit the players. It may be part of why some good players on other teams don't work out here on the Offensive side. On Defense he will make tweaks to fit some of the Defensive talents,but that doesn't seem to happen on the other side of the ball. Examples of this are Red Bryant and Bruce Irvin on Defense and the most glaring example of Graham on Offense.

That being said, Wilson has a lot of improvement to make and he could start with throwing some shorter quicker passes when under pressure. That might open Pete's eyes when the 3 and outs become rarer and the deeper/more explosive plays begin to open up.

[Anthony]

Comparing AR to Russell: If you believe in the football gods, the playoff game before the 2nd SB is a prime example of the difference between Aaron and Russell. Outplayed for 55 minutes to the point of it becoming a tragic comedy of errors on Russell's part, the only thing i can figure is that like Tim Tebow in his one playoff win, that God must be a football fan and if you pray enough, he will assist, like he did for Russell and the team in that last 5.5 minutes and finished it with the God Bless Us Ball to Kearse to win it.
But such that it is, he only gives you ONE lighting bolt at a time... so the SB is what it is.

Russell is not Aaron Rodgers and never will be. Not saying he's not damn good and a ring on his finger, but he's simply not that super top level of QB. I'll take it.

OKay first off this is BS in that game Wilson had 5 ints of which 4 went off Kearse's hands. Given we all know your dislike of Wilson this does not surprise me how you would leave out critical info. We are 3-3 against GB so to me that means the 2 QBs are pretty even THis includes a game where Wilson had a 110.9 Qb rating while Rodgers was hat 82.

[Anthony]

The problem with Pete's scheme is at it stands today - and maybe with the lack of good OL talent throughout the league it can't work as well as it would have 20 years ago, our OL isn't up to the task of regularly giving the QB enough time.
Complicate that with Russ's penchant for holding onto the ball too long and some other bad habits he has developed and it can hinder the Offense considerably. Pete, for all of his good qualities, seems to be trying to make the players fit his
system instead of allowing the OC to make the system fit the players. It may be part of why some good players on other teams don't work out here on the Offensive side. On Defense he will make tweaks to fit some of the Defensive talents,but that doesn't seem to happen on the other side of the ball. Examples of this are Red Bryant and Bruce Irvin on Defense and the most glaring example of Graham on Offense.

That being said, Wilson has a lot of improvement to make and he could start with throwing some shorter quicker passes when under pressure. That might open Pete's eyes when the 3 and outs become rarer and the deeper/more explosive plays begin to open up.

Agreed

[Aseahawkfan]

That's not true at all. For any quarterback to reach the HOF bar, they will need multiple league MVP/SB MVP awards, and he's not going to get either of those by playing for a team that goes 9-7 and misses the playoffs or even makes the playoffs but doesn't go deep into them. Tony Romo and Phillip Rivers were never even even whispered as a leagues MVP and obviously never even played in a SB and consequently will never even be mentioned as a HOF candidate because they failed to get their teams over the hump and competing for Lombardi's. Russell's/the teams current path from the past 3 seasons and what we've seen so far in 2018 does not include future SB's or league MVP's for anyone playing on this team unless we improve from what we are today. A defensive player or lineman, like JJ Watt, Earl, et al, can make the HOF w/o the team doing well, but for a QB to get there, their teams must have sustained success.

I, too, was somewhat confused as to why Bevell didn't continue to use the offense from the 2nd half of the 2015 season. But I doubt that you'll see any attempt to install such an offense, or at least not all components of that offense, as that is not the preference of our current OC. That doesn't mean that Russell and the team can't excel with Schott's offense, to the contrary, he put up some very good numbers from last week's game and we did score 24 points, good enough to win most games and is something that both him and the team can build on.

But Russell's going to have to quit taking big sacks and start making smarter decisions with the football if both him and the team expect to go anywhere. We'll only go as far as our QB can take us, especially with the defense in the current state that it is.

Russell already has one Lombardi, so that bar is passed. And has taken the team to two. Most QBs don't even do that. How convenient of you to forget he already has the hardware, getting more just strengthens the case. How ungrateful are you as a fan to forget the one Super Bowl Russell has already helped win and the second he took this team too, something not even close to accomplished by any coach or QB in the past wearing a Seattle uniform.

Do you want the bet? I'll take it with you right now. A $100 bucks. You can handle that if you're still kicking in 8 to 10 years.

I just want takers on the bet. I'm telling you right now Russell's current production with his already existing SB resume will get him in the Hall. I'm not interested in arguments any longer. I'm telling you and all who think you like that I'll take the first five of you for a $100 each that Russell is well on his way to the Hall of Fame if he maintains where he's at right now. Do you want the bet?

The honest truth is I think anyone that thinks Russell isn't already playing at Hall of Fame level are ignorant, spoiled, and ridiculous. I'm not sure what planet they come from, but the one I live on comparing statistics shows Russell's production is well on par with Hall of Fame caliber QBs with Super Bowl trophies. I guess Hass and Krieg really must have sucked because they didn't come close to what Russell is doing right now. Sure, Russell can do a better job getting the ball out to avoid sacks. Does that in anyway mean he isn't already playing elite and Hall of Fame caliber ball? Nope. Just means he has an area to work on.

[Aseahawkfan]

Cling to those numbers folks, insist he isn't running into sacks, by passing open receivers, holding the ball to long..... cling to them( because ultimately people not holding him accountable, or demanding better ie :fanboys or jock sniffers, are a BIG part of the problem imho people INCAPABLE of even acknowledging a SINGLE mistake, much less MULTIPLE issues keeping Wilson from the levels of truly historical play), the proof is there, has been there, will be there game in and game out, for anyone to see. Bury your heads, and when everything is said and done, if he doesn't address them, moan and whine about enshrinement that will not be forthcoming, scream about biases, and the unfairness of it all, whine about his statistics until you're blue in the face....

I'll be busy getting sad, and disappointed that so much HOF talent wasn't realized...

So you want the bet? He's already playing at a historical level. Not sure why you think he isn't. He can get better and likely will. You don't even know your history very well to realize how good Russell is. It's stupid that you think he's wasting his talent.

It's not about fanboying. it's about really knowing the game, not pretending to know it as you proclaim. You put this pretense up that he isn't already playing at a HoF level because you get to watch all these mistakes on All 22 films, mistakes literally every QB makes every game when scrutinized on film. Russell's game is his game. It produces at a high level. Can it be better? Sure it can, just like every QB, even the best. Is it already near the top in the league? Yep, even with its imperfections.

So you want the bet too? I say Russell's current level of production and already existing Super Bowl trophy and resume is enough to get him in the Hall. I say he's a unique outlier in the annals of football history given his height the previous and ongoing history that no one his height has every produced as he does. I say he's going into the Hall of Fame.

So tough talking rude cockroach? You want the bet.

You and Rivedog right now. I think you I know more about this game than either of you and my risk calculation is this bet is solid. So your knowledge and prediction against mine, for money.

[Aseahawkfan]

All of you that want the bet, just say you want.

The best is simple and plenty of time to wait to pay it. A $100 to the first five. Russell is heading into the Hall of Fame barring career ending injury with his current level of production and Super Bowl accomplishments when he retires. Who wants it?

So far [bi]Human Cockroach[/b] and Riverdog are the two football "experts" forgetting what Russ has already accomplished and questioning his HoF credibility. They taking the bet?

[Aseahawkfan]

The problem with Pete's scheme is at it stands today - and maybe with the lack of good OL talent throughout the league it can't work as well as it would have 20 years ago, our OL isn't up to the task of regularly giving the QB enough time.
Complicate that with Russ's penchant for holding onto the ball too long and some other bad habits he has developed and it can hinder the Offense considerably. Pete, for all of his good qualities, seems to be trying to make the players fit his
system instead of allowing the OC to make the system fit the players. It may be part of why some good players on other teams don't work out here on the Offensive side. On Defense he will make tweaks to fit some of the Defensive talents,but that doesn't seem to happen on the other side of the ball. Examples of this are Red Bryant and Bruce Irvin on Defense and the most glaring example of Graham on Offense.

That being said, Wilson has a lot of improvement to make and he could start with throwing some shorter quicker passes when under pressure. That might open Pete's eyes when the 3 and outs become rarer and the deeper/more explosive plays begin to open up.

The only problem we have right now is the lack of a run game and rebuilding the defense. Something none of these "football" experts like Riverdog and Human Cockroach want to talk about since it's all about the failure of the QB in their minds. It's astounding this forum doesn't have a thread about how poorly the defense played and how bad the blocking was or the time they will need to develop.

[Aseahawkfan]

Comparing AR to Russell: If you believe in the football gods, the playoff game before the 2nd SB is a prime example of the difference between Aaron and Russell. Outplayed for 55 minutes to the point of it becoming a tragic comedy of errors on Russell's part, the only thing i can figure is that like Tim Tebow in his one playoff win, that God must be a football fan and if you pray enough, he will assist, like he did for Russell and the team in that last 5.5 minutes and finished it with the God Bless Us Ball to Kearse to win it.
But such that it is, he only gives you ONE lighting bolt at a time... so the SB is what it is.

Russell is not Aaron Rodgers and never will be. Not saying he's not damn good and a ring on his finger, but he's simply not that super top level of QB. I'll take it.

We'll see at the end of their careers where they both are. Aaron Rodgers is better, but not as much better as people seem to think. Russell so far has stayed healthier than Rodgers.

I'd like to first see what Russell does playing with a really good set of receivers for about five years with a consistent O-line and a high performing offensive coach. Most of Russell's career has been playing behind a musical chairs O-line with constantly changing receivers including a Super Bowl where his starting WRs were Chris Williams, Doug Baldwin, Kearse, and Ricardo Lockette that we still almost won, two of those guys not even in the league any longer.

I don't think we've seen Russell's best ball yet.

[HumanCockroach]

Believe what you want fanboy.... nothing in ANY of that was "tough talking, rude" whatever you want to label it, even went out of my way to express how special he is, and how much I love the guy (AND unlike you, I actually WANT him to be in the discussion of greatest QBs to ever play the game, you want Vick, Cunningham, I want him to surpass Montana, Young, Brady)..... but as ALWAYS in this forum, some jock sniffer or other, insist based on nothing but fandom, what really occurs, what really happens, what really is to blame, despite visual evidence to the contrary.... insist knowledge, with nothing but the flapping of the gums, and stats as proof, while ignoring what he COULD be, if those issues were addressed.

So much easier to blame a kicker, or a lineman or a coach.

What you "know" about football clearly isn't being used when discussing Wilson, possible you do know more, I personally doubt it, but it's within the realm of possibility, obviously though even if that's the case, in this players regard, you are either incapable, or are unwilling to use said knowledge.

[HumanCockroach]

PS: you need to read more, I discussed a refusal to run the ball more with a back shredding that Denver D, the lack of tackling, the communication issues, fatakowski doing his typical shank thing, lack of a pass rush.... and emphatically pointed out that there was MULTIPLE factors that contributed to the loss, ONE of them was indeed Wilson running into sacks, holding the ball to long, and making key poor decisions, that its "all Wilson fault" thing is a point you're arguing, that was NEVER made by me, NEVER stated by me, and will NEVER be the way I evaluate wins and losses....

I don't blame a kicker for missing a long difficult FG when the offense hands the opposing team 17 points in a 3 point loss, I don't blame just the offensive line when a QB holds the ball to long, or runs in to sacks, I don't blame just the running game when opportunities are spurned, or one back is being exceedingly successful, yet the staff insists throwing the ball 80% of the time, I don't blame the refs, if there's two questionable calls in the game, I don't play the scapegoat game, that ain't my bag.

[Anthony]

The reality is there is blame to go around:

Oline bad
no run game
defense bad
special teams bad
new system
New OC
mostly new WRs
Rw being asked to stay in the pocket longer, even when it is all but gone
RW pressing
Pete and his overly cautious style
Penalties
Fans thinking they no or see something when they can't cause they can't see it how the QB sees it or don't take into account the down and distance. This one bugs me as an example one of the sack Rw "ran" into was 3rd and long, there was no one open to get the FD. Taking a sack there or throwing it away does nothing as we were not in FG range. We have a PUnter avg 60 yards a kick, why not take a chance and try to do something. In fact, 3 of his sacks were on 3rd down, and all 3 were the ones that I would say were on him but again either he takes a sack, throws it away or tries to do something either way unless what he tries works we are punting. Somehow that always get lost. At one point, he had 17 dropbacks and was hit, hurried, sacked or pressured on 12 of them that is awful(they showed it on the TV). I believe on ESPN they said out of the 33 attempts he was hit, hurried, sacked or pressured on 24 of them. That is 72.7%. Even if we say 3 sacks and say 3 times he had someone open (arguably) that would still be 54.5% which is way to high

Allot to go around, so not sure why anyone wants to single out any one player or even unit. All I know is while I agree he could have done more, he did not get much help. I am still boggled why we are not using the system we did in latter 2015, it was tailor-made for RW, and the online as well as RWs but for some reason, PC wants to use his system wh8ich is not well suited for the players we have. I also think to stay in the pocket a second longer is messing things up there were a few times had he done what he usually did, he would have escaped gotten some good yards or broken a big throw, but that extra second allowed an LB to get in the lane, add that to the conservative nature of Pete on throwing and he second guesses throws. Summation until PC gets out of the offense and lets Rw and whoever do what they do, we will never know how good Rw and the offense can be.

I am guessing with our defense so depleted we will be even more conservative. I hope I am wrong I hope this forces them to go back to the 2015 system. We will see. The big thing is we KNOW what RW and the offense can do when they run the right system, anything else is just a waste.

[Hawktawk]

Ill just repeat what I said on the 0-1 is a disaster thread. Russ had some ugly misses to go with some beautiful dimes. The clincher mistake and not sure its been mentioned was fumbling the snap right in his hands within the final minute only needing a FG to tie. That was just uncharacteristic of Russ considering how many times hes owned the last few ticks of ballgames. I think he's seeing the rush instead of the field, hearing footsteps, panicking and getting rattled. The new OC didn't impress me one bit, that's for sure. The new and improved line isn't any better than the last few garbage units. I think all the hits and sacks are taking their toll on little superman. Here's to a bounce back tomorrow.

[HumanCockroach]

How did he possibly regress from last week?? I really don't get it. They came out running the ball effectively, quick timing throws, shorter passing game.... things looked up.... ..then refusal to continue rushing with the better back ( one again gaining 4 yards a carry) a return to empty backfield on short 3rd down, a continuation of hold the ball and scramble while the pocket remains clean.... it honestly is starting to feel like they are intentionally finding things that work, and throwing them in the garbage.... Penny STILL being forcefed carries , why? Did somebody murder Carson at half time? He went in with 6 carries, even Mike Davis and Procise received more touches in the second half ( though to be fair, Carroll once again insisted they were going to "run the ball" only to have literally 0 carries in both offensive possessions in the third quarter).... this despite not a single negative run, and one again carrying a 4 ypc average ( typically considered a bell cow mark in the NFL) and that in a 10-3 football game ( much like last week's WINNABLE GAME).

[burrrton]

I haven't watched the game yet, but... CARSON ONLY HAD SIX CARRIES?!? AYFKM?

Maybe he was hurt in the 1st quarter, so I'll reserve outrage until I actually watch it.

[HumanCockroach]

Nope.... believe Mr. Carroll's excuse was something to the effect that "Carson was gassed from special teams, and they really wanted to evaluate Penny" or some other bunk... ( I'm seriously doubting that it's the case, he doesn't strike me as the out of shape fatty.... and even IF that's the case, he's FAR more valuable to an offense, ..then a punt team... smh)

I've got this radical idea.... if the STARTING back is gassed from special teams play, and it's the ONLY back that's been productive this season, in a ONE SCORE game.... maybe, just maybe, pull him OFF some of the special teams... I know... madness...

[Aseahawkfan]

Now that was a bad game by Russ. Not his worse game, but definitely a bad game. And I'll still take the bet. I'm not some short-term thinker forgetting what Russ can do when he's on. I'm going to chalk this up to Russ and the OC learning each other and Russ learning the new receivers. Russ has all new guys to throw to and is missing his number one. He has all new offense. Two new runners. And the new OC is learning and developing the pieces. We'll see how this thing is going by midseason.

So far that Dissly kid is looking great. I like seeing the defense progress. The run game is still a work in progress, but improving. Not sure what Schottenheimer is doing yet, but I'm sure he's trying to figure out what he's got as well. Though I have to say I would still like a more exciting and innovative playcaller. Pete likes this boring type of offense and Schott's definitely Bevell 2.0, exactly what Pete likes.

[HumanCockroach]

No amount of magic in the 4th quarter washes that that was a typical 2 to 3 quarters of football from Wilson, just missing the 4th quarter pinball numbers this time.

3 yrs this been going on, 3 long years ( honestly believe I can pin point the moment it changed to be honest) it didn't START this way at that time, but has progressively gotten worse over that 3 yr period... I pray he can recapture what he was, I honestly DO want to see him in the discussion of all time greats, not relegated to Michael Vick discussions...

So much ability, simply not being lived up to... so much...

Makes me sad every time I see it... not because of the losses that are mounting, but because of what is still there to be accomplished by him, so much still on the table for him to achieve.

[HumanCockroach]

Everyone has bad days and we aren't expecting Wilson to be perfect, but what many of us are pointing out are bad trends that started a couple of years ago and continue.
Not stepping up in the pocket and bailing out the back end is one, holding on to the ball too long is another, not taking the safe play but going for the home run are all concerns.
There are others, but these trends are obvious to us so they surely are known to opposing DC's, and that's why we are discussing them.
Wilson is a very good QB, but he could be great and the team could have more success if he changes things up a little.

Stolen from another thread, this is absolutely applicable for this game again... I agree adjustment is necessary, but it seems that regardless of system, these trends persist...

[Hawktawk]

Fugly. Its over.

I always felt like Russ was too good to be true,that someday Id wake up from the dream that was Russ Wilson and really the Hawks in general from 2012 to 2017 because hope was alive until week 17 last year.

But its over. PC is shot as a motivator.SChneider is living off the past. Schottenheimer is clueless. The defense is ordinary at best. Russell has never looked more confused and uncertain in his career. This is a 5-11 team at best

[Anthony]

Fugly. Its over.

I always felt like Russ was too good to be true,that someday Id wake up from the dream that was Russ Wilson and really the Hawks in general from 2012 to 2017 because hope was alive until week 17 last year.

But its over. PC is shot as a motivator.SChneider is living off the past. Schottenheimer is clueless. The defense is ordinary at best. Russell has never looked more confused and uncertain in his career. This is a 5-11 team at best

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/09/nfl-se ... ell-wilson

[idhawkman]

Russ bears a lot of responsibility for this one but so does the whole offense. 1 yard in the 3rd Qtr? 80 yards total in the first 3 qtrs? Again, this team only plays in the 4th qtr.

I think Russ is not adapting well to Shotts game. "IF" Russ can learn how to adapt, I can see us getting better but until that happens, it is pretty bleak.

[NorthHawk]

I've been saying for a few years now that Pete doesn't "Get" Offense.
I'm even more convinced now than ever. Just look at the productivity since Lynch left and we see a complete and continuing failure to adapt to what is needed to succeed.
How many Offensive draft picks have we selected that panned out beyond Wilson? Tyler Lockett and Britt are still here, and Pocic might turn out, but who else? The rest are on other teams.

We see other teams that are creative and unpredictable on Offense, but we plod along with the same old plays without the players needed to execute them successfully.
It's obvious now to most people that most of our Offense when successful was dependent on Lynch and his breaking tackles and punishing style of running. Since those types
of RB's only come along once in a while, and Offensive linemen are in short supply, the Offense needs to adapt to the players they have and scheme accordingly.
That means more quick short passes instead of slow developing plays, using the TE as a safety valve after chipping the DE's or dragging them across the middle.
It also means sticking to the run game. Apparently we went almost 2 full quarters without a run play against Chicago.

I know it's not going to happen, but maybe Pete should get the hell out of the Offensive planning sessions and let those who know Offense make the decisions.
The same old thing isn't working and never will consistently in a league where high point totals are commonplace.

[Anthony]

Russ bears a lot of responsibility for this one but so does the whole offense. 1 yard in the 3rd Qtr? 80 yards total in the first 3 qtrs? Again, this team only plays in the 4th qtr.

I think Russ is not adapting well to Shotts game. "IF" Russ can learn how to adapt, I can see us getting better but until that happens, it is pretty bleak.

Maybe shotty should try adapting to Russ, that said given what PC said it appears to be his issue messing it all up

[NorthHawk]

It's pretty difficult to adapt to two people.
The scheme/play calling is an issue, but Russell has to learn to throw it away sometimes. He's putting too much pressure on an already suspect OL by holding onto the ball too long
and the scheme wants slow developing plays.

[Anthony]

It's pretty difficult to adapt to two people.
The scheme/play calling is an issue, but Russell has to learn to throw it away sometimes. He's putting too much pressure on an already suspect OL by holding onto the ball too long
and the scheme wants slow developing plays.

I dont totaly disagree, however alot are on 3rd down, and if he does just throw it away, people will complain about that. We have PC admitting starting end of 1st through end of 3rd he made them go long. Notice when we went uptempo like in 2015 we move the ball easy. Use the system that suits your players

[NorthHawk]

Pete just said (among other things) that Wilson is pressing a little too much.

In the long yardage situations, he needs to throw the football a couple times. We need to get rid of the ball and just give up on a play because it’s not happening and not take an additional pressure. So that just adds up and it makes it hard on him.”

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... ittle-bit/

[idhawkman]

Russ bears a lot of responsibility for this one but so does the whole offense. 1 yard in the 3rd Qtr? 80 yards total in the first 3 qtrs? Again, this team only plays in the 4th qtr.

I think Russ is not adapting well to Shotts game. "IF" Russ can learn how to adapt, I can see us getting better but until that happens, it is pretty bleak.

Maybe shotty should try adapting to Russ, that said given what PC said it appears to be his issue messing it all up

IN case you haven't noticed, Russ has lost a step and his bail out the back isn't fooling anyone anymore. Russ has to adapt if he wants to stay relevant. We all knew this day was going to come. It happens to everyone including Michael Vick who was the fastest QB in the league for a number of years and then all of a sudden he wasn't.