Thanks PC! but Your done.

[obiken]

I have held off for 3 years, even though I have not changed my overall opinion of PC for a long time. Pete Carroll, is/was a good coach defensively. He built the LOB, no doubt about that. However, as Collin Cowherd has said, coaches often times cannot coach or build the other side of the ball. I agree! Our OL was the weak link even when we were good, now it's abysmal. After 2 great drafts, Pete has lost whatever magic he may have have had. It's become like a bad gangster movie: Frankie, you got no friends, your enemies don't respect you, your through Frankie. Moreover, we have no major WR outside of Baldwin. Last year I think teams were dumb, game planning against the Hawks was a piece of cake. You double cover Baldwin all over the field; you over load on our farce of an OL and blitz, and blindside block Jimmy Graham, every chance you got, just to piss him off. I am not like I did before the departing of Holmy, going to whine about the players we missed in the draft like Cox, doesn't do any good. His gross neglect in restocking the OL is an oversight at best, an intentional and direct slap in the face of Hawk fans and Seattle Hawk Print media at worst. I think it was gross negligence. Carpenter? Really? Ifetti? Nuff said there, drafting Olineman in the late rounds is a joke.

I like Pete, I really do, but I am now off Pete Carroll, or should I say on him. IF the 42-7 butt whooping by the Rams didn't show even the cheerleaders in here that the power in the NFC West has gone South, then like delusional Trump supporters, nothing will. I thank Pete for the SB, I am actually over the "give the ball to Lynch" SB, but its time to hold Pete a lot more accountable.

[RiverDog]

I have held off for 3 years, even though I have not changed my overall opinion of PC for a long time. Pete Carroll, is/was a good coach defensively. He built the LOB, no doubt about that. However, as Collin Cowherd has said, coaches often times cannot coach or build the other side of the ball. I agree! Our OL was the weak link even when we were good, now it's abysmal. After 2 great drafts, Pete has lost whatever magic he may have have had. It's become like a bad gangster movie: Frankie, you got no friends, your enemies don't respect you, your through Frankie. Moreover, we have no major WR outside of Baldwin. Last year I think teams were dumb, game planning against the Hawks was a piece of cake. You double cover Baldwin all over the field; you over load on our farce of an OL and blitz, and blindside block Jimmy Graham, every chance you got, just to piss him off. I am not like I did before the departing of Holmy, going to whine about the players we missed in the draft like Cox, doesn't do any good. His gross neglect in restocking the OL is an oversight at best, an intentional and direct slap in the face of Hawk fans and Seattle Hawk Print media at worst. I think it was gross negligence. Carpenter? Really? Ifetti? Nuff said there, drafting Olineman in the late rounds is a joke.

I like Pete, I really do, but I am now off Pete Carroll, or should I say on him. IF the 42-7 butt whooping by the Rams didn't show even the cheerleaders in here that the power in the NFC West has gone South, then like delusional Trump supporters, nothing will. I thank Pete for the SB, I am actually over the "give the ball to Lynch" SB, but its time to hold Pete a lot more accountable.

If Pete had done what he's been doing the past couple of years, ie accepting mediocrity, then I would have been calling for his head about halfway through this season. But he didn't. He recognized that the current formula wasn't working and is changing the paradigm. He fired both coordinators, our OL coach, and several other assistants, rid himself of distractions in the form of Sherman and Bennett, let a busted TE walk. He has recognized his failings and is doing something about them. He remains one of the best defensive minds in the game and I don't want to throw in the towel on him just yet.

So I am giving him another two years. Depending on the circumstances, if we're not back in the hunt for another Lombardi by then, I might come and join you.

[curmudgeon]

Carroll and Schnieder got the credit for Seattle’s run. Scot McGloughan built SF and Seattle’s super bowl teams. The Seahawks current state is due to John Schnieder’s personnel capabilities. No surprise why GB went in a different direction for their GM hire.....

[c_hawkbob]

Seems like you're a few months late for a thread like this. I can see this as a season wrap up, but at this point you might as well see how the season plays out eh?

[HumanCockroach]

Eh.... he is what he has always been.... I'm cool with it until he ceases getting results... he gets this year after the flubbing of last season, along with several iffy moves this off season, but, if he has them back in the playoffs in two years, or at least a solid foundation that is competitive in every game at that point, I'm good with it.

The handling of several key "core " guys in next two years will be interesting to watch.... clearly, the claim that guys are "core " isn't as strong as previously professed, so watching what they do in next couple seasons will certainly move that dial one way or the other.... do they continue to sign old players to big contracts ( ie Cleveland Browns model) or do they stick to their "always compete" mantra that seems to be more words and bluster now, than actually core principal?

[RiverDog]

The problem is if not PC, then who? I sort of go by the "one in the hand is worth two in the bush" analogy. We know that Pete can build a championship football team, but what we don't know is if guys like McVay, Shannahan, and all those young bucks that we might hire to replace him can put one together. It's pretty unlikely that we'd stumble into a proven SB quality HC like we did with Holmgren.

[HumanCockroach]

I don't fret about something that may or may not happen. When you can't get it done, delaying replacement simple extends the process.

[NorthHawk]

I have held off for 3 years, even though I have not changed my overall opinion of PC for a long time. Pete Carroll, is/was a good coach defensively. He built the LOB, no doubt about that. However, as Collin Cowherd has said, coaches often times cannot coach or build the other side of the ball. I agree! Our OL was the weak link even when we were good, now it's abysmal. After 2 great drafts, Pete has lost whatever magic he may have have had. It's become like a bad gangster movie: Frankie, you got no friends, your enemies don't respect you, your through Frankie. Moreover, we have no major WR outside of Baldwin. Last year I think teams were dumb, game planning against the Hawks was a piece of cake. You double cover Baldwin all over the field; you over load on our farce of an OL and blitz, and blindside block Jimmy Graham, every chance you got, just to piss him off. I am not like I did before the departing of Holmy, going to whine about the players we missed in the draft like Cox, doesn't do any good. His gross neglect in restocking the OL is an oversight at best, an intentional and direct slap in the face of Hawk fans and Seattle Hawk Print media at worst. I think it was gross negligence. Carpenter? Really? Ifetti? Nuff said there, drafting Olineman in the late rounds is a joke.

I like Pete, I really do, but I am now off Pete Carroll, or should I say on him. IF the 42-7 butt whooping by the Rams didn't show even the cheerleaders in here that the power in the NFC West has gone South, then like delusional Trump supporters, nothing will. I thank Pete for the SB, I am actually over the "give the ball to Lynch" SB, but its time to hold Pete a lot more accountable.

Hmm. Let's see. Flaming post early am after a Saturday night.
Is this the antithesis of drunk texting?

I'm not in the camp that we didn't draft OL high enough. Carpenter - 1st round, Britt - 2nd round, Pocic - 2nd round, Ifedi - 1st round. We also signed former high picks like Joeckel and now Fluker.
The problem either lies with coaching or player evaluation/fit.
Personally, I think it was coaching. Not that Cable doesn't know OL play, but rather his system didn't fit the players natural abilities and he didn't change his schemes to match the available personnel.
It's why players like Carpenter can leave here and do well in the Jets scheme.
As well, he knows that draftees today aren't schooled very well in OL play. He then tried to take raw rookies and move them around within a complex blocking scheme. This resulted in players not really learning a position before being moved to another. It's no wonder some of them washed out.
I said for years that they have to settle in at one position and learn it before they start moving them around.

[RiverDog]

IIt's why players like Carpenter can leave here and do well in the Jets scheme.

Carpenter was drafted as a tackle and played that position for his entire rookie season before Cable finally came to the conclusion that he wasn't going to cut it at OT. I have no idea what he was thinking when he concluded that Carp had the potential to play OT at the NFL level. His head coach was surprised that Carp was drafted as high as we took him. Even as an OG, he was one dimensional, excelled only at straight ahead bulldozing blocking and was not quick enough to get to the second level and block a linebacker or pull and throw a trap block. By the end of 2013, he was beat out by a journeyman linemen by the name of Paul McQuistan and didn't even suit up for several playoff games. The only time Carpenter played well was during his final year with us, his contract year, when he finally got his fat butt in shape.

IMO Carpenter was the biggest bust and worst talent evaluation in the PC era, at least as it applies to high draft choices. The only selection in our history that was worse was Andre Hines.

Point is, besides giving me one more opportunity to b**** about Carpenter, is that the Carpenter saga was a blatant example of poor talent evaluation.

[NorthHawk]

Point is, besides giving me one more opportunity to b**** about Carpenter, is that the Carpenter saga was a blatant example of poor talent evaluation.

He might have been a good run blocking RT if we played a physical mauling type of OL scheme. That speaks to evaluating talent and ranking the players within a scheme, but even then, he was drafted ahead of what would
be expected because of his lack of foot speed and overall athleticism. He was a power player drafted into a system that demanded athleticism, and that's why he's succeeding with the Jets.

[RiverDog]

He might have been a good run blocking RT if we played a physical mauling type of OL scheme. That speaks to evaluating talent and ranking the players within a scheme, but even then, he was drafted ahead of what would
be expected because of his lack of foot speed and overall athleticism. He was a power player drafted into a system that demanded athleticism, and that's why he's succeeding with the Jets.

I pretty much agree except that you have to qualify Carpenter's "success" in the Jet's offense by noting that the Jets ranked 20th in yards per rushing attempt and 28th in total offense.

[NorthHawk]

What with our lack of OL success the last couple of years and our consequent discussions, I looked up some of the Jets articles back then and came away with the impression they thought he was a pretty good Guard.
At one point some were trying to promote him as a Pro Bowl Guard candidate.
So somebody thought he was a good addition to their OL.

[obiken]

If Pete had done what he's been doing the past couple of years, ie accepting mediocrity, then I would have been calling for his head about halfway through this season. But he didn't. He recognized that the current formula wasn't working and is changing the paradigm. He fired both coordinators, our OL coach, and several other assistants, rid himself of distractions in the form of Sherman and Bennett, let a busted TE walk. He has recognized his failings and is doing something about them. He remains one of the best defensive minds in the game and I don't want to throw in the towel on him just yet.

So I am giving him another two years. Depending on the circumstances, if we're not back in the hunt for another Lombardi by then, I might come and join you.

Good Point River! I disagree Respectfully but you make a good case.

[Aseahawkfan]

And yet another reasons why I laugh when obiken claims he's not a doom and gloomer. He's all doom and gloom, just waiting for the sky to fall all the time so he can finally say, "Look, I'm right" after he's said the same thing year after year after year.

If anyone of any consequence listened to fans like obiken, we'd be changing coaches and GMs every few years because no one is nearly up to the standards obiken has with the draft and coaching success. You can be the second best coach in NFL for the last decade, but in obiken book, somehow you're not good enough to stick around or build a team a second time. It doesn't matter that our offense has been top 10 in points for quite a number of years under Pete and went to two Super Bowls, every other coach in his mind has been better. Ridiculous.

Pete has built the other side of the ball up giving us the best QB in Seahawks history and one of the best running games in our history. The only reason no one looks at the offense as comparable is because the defense was literally historically great. Not just a great defense, but a 50 years of NFL history historically great defense with one of the best secondaries to maybe ever play the game. How can any offense match that? Four years of number one points allowed, never been done before defense, not even by the Steel Curtain or Purple People Eaters level of defense. And you expected the offense to come close to that? The offense was still good and gave us some memorable moments.

I'd give Pete and John a nice long rope to see if they can build something else. How soon fans like obiken forget who drafted our current QB and who traded for Marshawn. If this is a bad job building an offense, then I guess I'll take it. Most teams never find a QB half as good as Russell or go to a Super Bowl.