Our OL

[HumanCockroach]

The deal for Brown was a good one, it helped us last year in spite of his being hobbled by an ankle injury and it'll help us this year. Having a TC to work with Russ on top of last year's experience will show up big. He's a pro, he'll adjust to Russ' deeper drops and extended plays just fine.

I understand the reasoning, but I don't wash the play because of it. They swung, they missed. I can live with it, but I'm not giving him leeway. Of course I want him to do well. We're stuck with him now. I certainly would rather have productive players instead of him, but you live with what you've got.

This entire part of this discussion stemmed from value vs play. On the offensive line, Brown, not Ifedi, Procic, Britt or even Fluker ( who knows maybe a one year formerly abysmal lineman plays well for a change) has provided less, for such an enormous cost.

The types of plays I've pointed out, have nothing to do with scheme, or Wilson's drops, scrambles, or a sprained ankle, they happened as regularly before the injury, as they did after. Sometimes it's better to accept the truth of the situation and move forward. It doesn't matter how veteran the guy is, if he can't play effectively any longer, the correct adjective is old, or washed up.

[c_hawkbob]

We swung and hit at least a triple. Here's what PFF had to say abowt brown's effect on the Seahawks O-line after his first 5 games (one game after injuring his ankle):

The Seahawks offensive line is still far from good, but adding a high-quality player in the form of Duane Brown at left tackle has made a huge and immediate impact.

Brown has allowed just one sack since starting for the Seahawks (coming Sunday night against the Eagles), and nine total pressures across five starts. The player he replaced – Rees Odhiambo – allowed four in the last game he started and has a game on his resume this season with 10 total pressures surrendered.

The upgrade from Odhiambo (overall PFF grade of 27.5, worst in the league) to Brown (overall PFF grade of 78.2, 22nd) cannot be overstated.

Before Brown arrived in the Pacific Northwest, The Seahawks had the league’s 30th-ranked pass-block efficiency score among all offensive lines. That metric effectively measures how much pressure was being allowed on a per-snap basis, and it was resulting in Wilson being under pressure 39.4 percent of the time. Since Brown has arrived, they have climbed to the 10th-ranked unit in pass-block efficiency. Wilson has been under pressure just 23.1 percent of the time, which if it held true over the entire season would rank second in the league in terms of lowest percentage of snaps under pressure.

I already know we disagree about Brown, but I think you either have something personal against him or just made an early call that picking him up was a bad deal and have been doggedly trying to justify that position since. Because despite your crowing in game threads about every missed block (and there were a few late in the season) the analytics just don't support that position.

Oh, and he wound up in the Pro bowl last year as well, and even though that's not a conclusive endorsement, it ain't nuthin.

[idhawkman]

I fail to see how the two are remotely similar. One hasn't declined, costs zero draft picks to acquire, is still playing at an elite level, hasn't missed a single game he's been available for, and has 3 to 5 more years at that level..... the other is Brown.

The reason you fail to see it is that you're a homer for Earl and not for Brown. I'm a homer for the Seahawks and no individual player.

[HumanCockroach]

You confusing no bias for homer. You've admitted your biases( holdouts regardless of value). Ultimately you're caught up on contracts, if not maybe you'd be capable of evaluating talent, performance, value and ability objectively.

Since that ISN'T the case, and you've STATED as such, perhaps keep the slinging at me about "homerism" out of it. Thomas isn't, hasn't, and has never been my favorite player, but just like Wilson, I recognize the VALUE to my team competing, winning games, and success. Not my problem if you would prefer 2-14 type years because you're jealous of how much money they make, don't understand the NFL system in place, or simply don't like Thomas. That's your cross to bare, and you can do it alone.

( by the by, if you were a homer for the Seahawks, you would WANT the best chance to win. Hence, your bias about the holdout makes it abundantly clear, that isn't the case. )

[idhawkman]

... but just like Wilson, I recognize the VALUE to my team competing, ...

You can't possibly evaluate the value of Earl since you don't know what it is going to cost to keep him.

[HumanCockroach]

LMFAO sure... whatever.... at least I'm not claiming he's as valuable as a bag of cheetos because I have personal issue with him handling his business.... I know he's more valuable, available, and productive than Berry.... pretty good starting point.

[obiken]

OMG, Obi has been around longer than you Roach, there is zero percent chance he's Anthony.

I missed that one! That's hilarious! No I can be wrong all by myself Human, Anthony might be miffed however, even comparing him to me!

[RiverDog]

We swung and hit at least a triple. Here's what PFF had to say abowt brown's effect on the Seahawks O-line after his first 5 games (one game after injuring his ankle):

The Seahawks offensive line is still far from good, but adding a high-quality player in the form of Duane Brown at left tackle has made a huge and immediate impact.

Brown has allowed just one sack since starting for the Seahawks (coming Sunday night against the Eagles), and nine total pressures across five starts. The player he replaced – Rees Odhiambo – allowed four in the last game he started and has a game on his resume this season with 10 total pressures surrendered.

The upgrade from Odhiambo (overall PFF grade of 27.5, worst in the league) to Brown (overall PFF grade of 78.2, 22nd) cannot be overstated.

Before Brown arrived in the Pacific Northwest, The Seahawks had the league’s 30th-ranked pass-block efficiency score among all offensive lines. That metric effectively measures how much pressure was being allowed on a per-snap basis, and it was resulting in Wilson being under pressure 39.4 percent of the time. Since Brown has arrived, they have climbed to the 10th-ranked unit in pass-block efficiency. Wilson has been under pressure just 23.1 percent of the time, which if it held true over the entire season would rank second in the league in terms of lowest percentage of snaps under pressure.

I already know we disagree about Brown, but I think you either have something personal against him or just made an early call that picking him up was a bad deal and have been doggedly trying to justify that position since. Because despite your crowing in game threads about every missed block (and there were a few late in the season) the analytics just don't support that position.

Oh, and he wound up in the Pro bowl last year as well, and even though that's not a conclusive endorsement, it ain't nuthin.

It's pretty hard to argue with Cbob's post. Flawless logic.

But I will say this: In terms of team performance in that the motivation to trade for Brown was to get us over the hump and deep into the playoffs with a shot at another SB. With considerable justification as at the time of the trade, we were 5-2 and leading our division, we felt that we were just a player or two away. We lost our starting LT to injury, his replacement clearly wasn't cutting it, and the OL in general was a mess, so it made sense. The primary objective clearly wasn't met, so IMO the trade was a failure as it was hugely expensive and mortgaged our future.

On the other hand, the jury is still out on the trade as Brown is still on our roster. We'll see how he does.

[HumanCockroach]

I guess, believe what you want. Brown has not lived up to anything but getting dumped on his arse or watching DEs run by him( and as RD pointed out, mortgaged our future for the privilege). I watched it week in and week out. You want to believe something different be my guest.

I know for certain that against the Rams and the SAME players Ohiambo was the FAR superior player. If that's a "triple" I'd love to see less bases.

[HumanCockroach]

For the record, I NEVER said that Obi... Bob was confused by my phones auto correct.

[obiken]

For the record, I NEVER said that Obi... Bob was confused by my phones auto correct.

Oh ok. No problem, forget about it.

[c_hawkbob]

According to the ticker on NFLN we just signed Duane Brown to a 3 year $36.5M extension, solidifying LT for a couple more years at least. Glad to see it.

[NorthHawk]

As per PFT:

Coupled with the $9.75 million Brown was due to earn in 2018, it’s a four-year, $46.25 million package.

The deal includes $16 million guaranteed, and he’ll make $24 million in the first two years by meeting a minimal playing-time incentive this season.

[c_hawkbob]

Said at the end of last year that we were transitioning from a dominant defensive team to one more dependent upon it's QB and Offense and that we needed to start devoting more resources to protecting our QB. I'm glad to see us doing just that.

Though I do feel a bit bad for Earl ...

[HumanCockroach]

SMH...

Worked so well for the Brees, Rodgers, Luck's of the NFL....

[obiken]

Said at the end of last year that we were transitioning from a dominant defensive team to one more dependent upon it's QB and Offense and that we needed to start devoting more resources to protecting our QB. I'm glad to see us doing just that.

Though I do feel a bit bad for Earl ...

I don't know CB, I guess we had no choice, but to pay this much out to a guy that is not even as good as Okung I think is a mistake but heck, I am probably wrong.

[c_hawkbob]

First, I wanted to keep Okung, but we weren't willing to make him the highest paid LT in the league. Second, I don't think he's better than Brown. Just younger.

[RiverDog]

First, I wanted to keep Okung, but we weren't willing to make him the highest paid LT in the league. Second, I don't think he's better than Brown. Just younger.

I gotta agree with Cbob on this one. Okung's biggest problem was that he couldn't stay on the field. I swear that he twisted an ankle while walking off the field. And I don't think he was anywhere near Pro Bowl quality even though he did make the Pro Bowl once. Nevertheless, starting quality LT's are almost as hard to come by as starting quality QB's, and almost as essential, and I hated to see us let him go. At the time, we were prioritizing defense over offense.

I honestly haven't had a lot of time to look closely at Brown's performance. Due to various things, I wasn't able to watch replays of our games during the 2nd half of the season, which is when I pick up on individual OL play. But being that I now have my arse fully planted in the rocking chair, no such distractions will prevent me from such an examination this season!

[HumanCockroach]

That's a whole lot of revisionist history up in there... truth is NOBODY wanted Okung, definitely not amongst NFL teams, nor the bulk of those claiming now different then then. Okung was "injury prone" and not worth the money, according to bulk on this site ( myself included) , always surprises how quickly people change their tune. Carpenter, Giacomini, Sweezy, Unger ( yup even Unger makes the list), Britt.... the list goes on, and on and on.... ultimately, if you're a Seattle lineman, you are substandard, or mediocre at best, and aren't worth keeping ( until you're gone of course, then everybody and their brother wanted to keep you) because the new player is worse don't you know...

Ifedi, Pocic etc will be no different, it's already started on Ifedi walking into year 2 at tackle....

I been pointing that out since 2013...

[Aseahawkfan]

That's a whole lot of revisionist history up in there... truth is NOBODY wanted Okung, definitely not amongst NFL teams, nor the bulk of those claiming now different then then. Okung was "injury prone" and not worth the money, according to bulk on this site ( myself included) , always surprises how quickly people change their tune. Carpenter, Giacomini, Sweezy, Unger ( yup even Unger makes the list), Britt.... the list goes on, and on and on.... ultimately, if you're a Seattle lineman, you are substandard, or mediocre at best, and aren't worth keeping ( until you're gone of course, then everybody and their brother wanted to keep you) because the new player is worse don't you know...

Ifedi, Pocic etc will be no different, it's already started on Ifedi walking into year 2 at tackle....

I been pointing that out since 2013...

I blamed Cable more than the lineman, though I despise injury prone players that stay around too long. We'll see if a new O-line coach can do something with our talent. I've also read too many articles stating the RB and QB are more important than the line. Line ratings are more based on how good your QB and RB are and only a truly awful O-line will make a great QB or RB look bad. The best O-line in history will not make a RB or QB great. I'm mostly ok with our O-line strategy, though I still believe we need at least one or two quality players mixing in the rotating door players to save money. LT and Center being the most important positions. With a quality center good at line management and league average or slightly above LT, you can find fairly average players at the other positions.

[NorthHawk]

The only player on OL I wasn't concerned about losing was Sweezy. I thought he had reached his ceiling as an average Guard. I was happy for him for getting paid, but I also thought his offer from TB was too much to match or exceed.
The problem with trading away Unger was we didn't have a viable replacement on the team ready to take over. Okung was a good player here when healthy, and I wonder if he just wanted out considering the contract he signed with Denver.
I was surprised and disappointed we let go of both Carpenter and Giacomini without much of a struggle considering (again) no obvious replacements were on the team.

With the current group, we have a bunch of players that for the most part are good maulers. Solari's blocking scheme lends itself more to that type of player and although his scheme employs some ZBS, it's also a more physical and simple system where the blocking assignments are more man on man instead of getting to a zone on time. Now the young guys can break the huddle and just find the guy they have to block.

[RiverDog]

That's a whole lot of revisionist history up in there... truth is NOBODY wanted Okung, definitely not amongst NFL teams, nor the bulk of those claiming now different then then. Okung was "injury prone" and not worth the money, according to bulk on this site ( myself included) , always surprises how quickly people change their tune. Carpenter, Giacomini, Sweezy, Unger ( yup even Unger makes the list), Britt.... the list goes on, and on and on.... ultimately, if you're a Seattle lineman, you are substandard, or mediocre at best, and aren't worth keeping ( until you're gone of course, then everybody and their brother wanted to keep you) because the new player is worse don't you know...

Ifedi, Pocic etc will be no different, it's already started on Ifedi walking into year 2 at tackle....

I been pointing that out since 2013...

Speaking for myself, most of the OL that we let walk that I didn't want to keep was a recognition of the financial reality of our defensive philosophy, not because they weren't talented enough or weren't worth market value.

[c_hawkbob]

Welcome back JR Sweezy. https://www.seahawks.com/news/seahawks- ... very-young

[HumanCockroach]

Instant, cheap upgrade to either play or depth. Good signing.

[jshawaii22]

Seahawks 24/7 is reporting that the Vikings and Seahawks have made contact with Richie Incognito... God, has it really come to that?

[Hawk Sista]

I read a few articles and it seems like Richie is grasping at straws. After his crazy, divisive career and more recent Twitter rants (+ our signing JR), I very seriously doubt he’d be considered. He has said he doesn’t want to go to training camp but he wants to play. Not very Pete-like. Too bad for him he’s a cancer as he’s a helluva good guard. Talent wise I’d trade Fluker & Sweezy to get him. Add in his crazy, however, and I’m firmly in the HELL NO camp.

[RiverDog]

Seahawks 24/7 is reporting that the Vikings and Seahawks have made contact with Richie Incognito... God, has it really come to that?

I agree that there's a potential issue with the locker room. This is where our team leaders, like Russell and Bobby, could come in handy. A smart head coach will run this past one or two of the team leaders and get a feel for their sentiments and that of the team. I'm pretty sure Pete does that when he's thinking about bringing in someone that could cause a distraction.

Besides, this is training camp. If we do bring him in, there's no guarantee that he'll make the roster. Let's give this a chance to play out before we start jumping out windows.

[c_hawkbob]

I read a few articles and it seems like Richie is grasping at straws. After his crazy, divisive career and more recent Twitter rants (+ our signing JR), I very seriously doubt he’d be considered. He has said he doesn’t want to go to training camp but he wants to play. Not very Pete-like. Too bad for him he’s a cancer as he’s a helluva good guard. Talent wise I’d trade Fluker & Sweezy to get him. Add in his crazy, however, and I’m firmly in the HELL NO camp.

This.

[Aseahawkfan]

Roid-rage lunatic Cognito in Seattle? I hope not.

[Hawk Sista]

I’m all for second chances. Maybe even third and fourth ones, too. This dude, however, needs psychiatric assistance. AND he doesn’t want it, or to practice... he just wants to play & MF coaches via social media. Good luck to him getting his ish straight. In this important offseason, double hell-no on testing the waters ‘round here!