Sherman: Seahawks "lost their way"

[RiverDog]

Never at a loss for words, Richard Sherman spoke out about his former team:

“It’s just unfortunate. It’s really unfortunate,” Sherman says. “I think it’ll all come out when they do the 30 for 30. Mistakes and poor judgment on things ruined what could have been a really special deal. You don’t have much left right now. And to say you’re not going to pay Earl Thomas is just ... There’s no decline in play there. He’s played the game the right way. Who do you have to pay? You have the two best linebackers in the game. You have the quarterback. You have a great wide receiver in Doug [Baldwin]. And you’re paying Duane Brown.

“They’ve lost their way. It’s as simple as that. They’ve just lost their way. When you make too many mistakes over a long period of time, you kind of dig yourself a hole. And then when you backtrack, you gotta make a bunch of rash decisions to try and fill the hole and hope that it holds up.

“When we were rolling it was an environment for pure competitors. When it becomes something else, then it’s more difficult to thrive in, and I think that’s what was tough on Earl, that’s what was tough on a lot of guys. But I think as it kind of progressed, you start seeing the writing on the wall. You’re like, ‘Not only are they probably moving in a different direction,’ but it’s like, ‘Ah, well, I kind of want to move in a different direction, too.’ So it happens like that. All great things must come to an end, I guess.

“I’m not even going to worry about it now. I’ve got bigger fish to fry.”

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/07/16/richa ... ium=social

There's also some pretty good stuff in that article regarding Sherman's performance with Earl in the lineup and without. No big revelation to any of us that have followed the team.

It's been a pretty rocky offseason. Thankfully it's almost over.

[NorthHawk]

What mistakes did they make other than paying too much for the Defense relative to the Offense?
That would mean someone wouldn't get paid and have moved on.

[c_hawkbob]

Those are pretty old quotes. I know the SI article is new, but Sherm said those things quite a while ago (and was echoed BTW by Marshawn). I believe most here considered it "stating the obvious" at the time.

[idhawkman]

Creating a perenial competitor is not too complicated. The Pats have given the blueprint but no one wants to follow it.

Here's a list of the top players per position for the pats: Only the top 10 paid players are listed. Their rank for the position is listed first.

Specialist:
1. Stephen Gostkowski, Patriots ($4.187M APY, $10.1M guaranteed)

Safety:
6. Devin McCourty, Patriots ($9.5M APY, $28.5M guaranteed)

Cornerback:
7. Stephon Gilmore, Patriots ($13M APY, $40M guaranteed)

Tight End:
4. Rob Gronkowski, Patriots ($9M APY, $17.92M guaranteed)
9. Dwayne Allen, Patriots ($7.35M APY, $16M guaranteed)

Note: Tom Brady's contract is ranked 22nd among QBs.

Seahawks List:

QB:
6. Russell Wilson, Seahawks ($21.9M APY, $61.542M guaranteed)

WR:
7. Doug Baldwin, Seahawks ($11.5M APY, $24.25M guaranteed)

Tight End:
1. Jimmy Graham, Seahawks ($10M APY, $20.9M guaranteed)

Cornerback:
4. Richard Sherman, Seahawks ($14M APY, $40M guaranteed)

Safety:
5. Earl Thomas, Seahawks ($10M APY, $25.725M guaranteed)
10. Kam Chancellor, Seahawks ($7M APY, $17M guaranteed)

So we pay about $74M for 6 players and the Pats pay about $44M for 5. Bottom line is the supporting players are higher quality on the pats than they are on our team because there's more money to pay for the supporting players.

[RiverDog]

Those are pretty old quotes. I know the SI article is new, but Sherm said those things quite a while ago (and was echoed BTW by Marshawn). I believe most here considered it "stating the obvious" at the time.

Since the Sherman quote contained a remark that the Seahawks weren't going to pay Earl, a comment one would have to assume is a reference the holdout that Thomas announced on June 10th, it's likely that they were made since then. Not sure what you meant by "old", but they can't be more than 5-6 weeks old.

[RiverDog]

Creating a perenial competitor is not too complicated. The Pats have given the blueprint but no one wants to follow it.

Here's a list of the top players per position for the pats: Only the top 10 paid players are listed. Their rank for the position is listed first.

Specialist:
1. Stephen Gostkowski, Patriots ($4.187M APY, $10.1M guaranteed)

Safety:
6. Devin McCourty, Patriots ($9.5M APY, $28.5M guaranteed)

Cornerback:
7. Stephon Gilmore, Patriots ($13M APY, $40M guaranteed)

Tight End:
4. Rob Gronkowski, Patriots ($9M APY, $17.92M guaranteed)
9. Dwayne Allen, Patriots ($7.35M APY, $16M guaranteed)

Note: Tom Brady's contract is ranked 22nd among QBs.

Seahawks List:

QB:
6. Russell Wilson, Seahawks ($21.9M APY, $61.542M guaranteed)

WR:
7. Doug Baldwin, Seahawks ($11.5M APY, $24.25M guaranteed)

Tight End:
1. Jimmy Graham, Seahawks ($10M APY, $20.9M guaranteed)

Cornerback:
4. Richard Sherman, Seahawks ($14M APY, $40M guaranteed)

Safety:
5. Earl Thomas, Seahawks ($10M APY, $25.725M guaranteed)
10. Kam Chancellor, Seahawks ($7M APY, $17M guaranteed)

So we pay about $74M for 6 players and the Pats pay about $44M for 5. Bottom line is the supporting players are higher quality on the pats than they are on our team because there's more money to pay for the supporting players.

Brady signed his extension before this current rash of obscene, overpaid contracts like those given to Kirk Cousins, Jimmy Garapolo, Derek Carr, and Alex Smith, it isn't fair to compare the Patriots payroll to ours or nearly ever other team with a Pro Bowl quarterback on their roster.

[idhawkman]

Brady signed his extension before this current rash of obscene, overpaid contracts like those given to Kirk Cousins, Jimmy Garapolo, Derek Carr, and Alex Smith, it isn't fair to compare the Patriots payroll to ours or nearly ever other team with a Pro Bowl quarterback on their roster.

Not completely true River. He signed his extension for the $17m/yr when QBs were getting $25m. So even if you take out the more recent ones, he still wouldn't crack the list.

[HumanCockroach]

What mistakes did they make other than paying too much for the Defense relative to the Offense?
That would mean someone wouldn't get paid and have moved on.

Lots... Graham, Micheals, Harvin ( to name just a few)... the "cost" had a hell of a lot more to do with the quality of players on D ( far exceeding the value of said counterparts on offense) and the age and timing of said offensive players..

Name the All Pro Seattle didn't retain during that time period? Can't be done, because there isn't any.... for all the laurels heaped on Wilson, Baldwin, etc... how many all pros have they garnered? How often have they been seen as the very best player at that position in the league? I love them, but the answer is zero.

[HumanCockroach]

Ok... so ID just said Wilson greedy.... lol... truth is Brady already MADE his money, and as such, can accept less to improve the team around him... it's comparing apples and oranges, one player has accomplished everything, and his career is coming to a close, the other, is entering what should be his prime, hasn't earned the money, nor prestige of the other.

They are NOT comparable....

[NorthHawk]

Lots... Graham, Micheals, Harvin ( to name just a few)... the "cost" had a hell of a lot more to do with the quality of players on D ( far exceeding the value of said counterparts on offense) and the age and timing of said offensive players..

Name the All Pro Seattle didn't retain during that time period? Can't be done, because there isn't any.... for all the laurels heaped on Wilson, Baldwin, etc... how many all pros have they garnered? How often have they been seen as the very best player at that position in the league? I love them, but the answer is zero.

I must be reading Shermans comments from a different PoV.
I thought he was talking about the Defense and mistakes they made on that side of the ball.
We all know they have been inept on Offense and personnel decisions there(I was pilloried in this or the PI forum for calling it a Pop gun Offense), even when they were in position to win a SB and calling out the OL for not being as good as they should be even during our most dominant years.

[RiverDog]

I must be reading Shermans comments from a different PoV.
I thought he was talking about the Defense and mistakes they made on that side of the ball.

He did insinuate that we're overpaying Brown, so I think his "mistakes made" comment pertained to the entire team, or at least that's how I interpreted his remarks.

[idhawkman]

Ok... so ID just said Wilson greedy.... lol... truth is Brady already MADE his money, and as such, can accept less to improve the team around him... it's comparing apples and oranges, one player has accomplished everything, and his career is coming to a close, the other, is entering what should be his prime, hasn't earned the money, nor prestige of the other.

They are NOT comparable....

Please copy and paste where I said "Wilson is greedy." I know you can't because I never said that.

What I said was to be a perenial winner, you can't pay as much as we do for the top talent on the team. The money has to go to supporting players also.

Thnk of it this way, the chain is only as strong as its weakest link. So we have some extremely strong links on the team but opposing teams don't attack those links, they go after the weakest links. That is what makes the difference.

I personally don't care how much Wilson makes, as long as there's enough money to go around to the supporting players and we have a winning team. After paying all of our stars after the last two SB appearances, we are not the same team and don't win nearly as much. You can't argue with that logic.

[Anthony]

Lots... Graham, Micheals, Harvin ( to name just a few)... the "cost" had a hell of a lot more to do with the quality of players on D ( far exceeding the value of said counterparts on offense) and the age and timing of said offensive players..

Name the All Pro Seattle didn't retain during that time period? Can't be done, because there isn't any.... for all the laurels heaped on Wilson, Baldwin, etc... how many all pros have they garnered? How often have they been seen as the very best player at that position in the league? I love them, but the answer is zero.

ahh that is a bit of an orange and apples comparison with regards to all pro and QB, there is only 1 QB on an all-pro team, there are 2 CB, So Sherman can be 2nd best and still make while Wilson has to be #1. In addition, given up until this year most of our money went to the defense once again not a fair comparison as the defense had more help.

[NorthHawk]

HC said that. I would never spell Michaels as Micheals.
I couldn't get 2 quotes to work so that's probably the confusion.

[Aseahawkfan]

I did not consider it stating the "obvious." Then again I'm not as emotionally driven as some fans.

All I see is a defense that aged, lost enough of its mojo to no longer demand the pay they were receiving, and team that has assessed this and is making changes to build a team around their still young all-star QB. None of this is caused by "losing their way", "Pete lacking discipline", or any other emotionally driven reason. It is driven by real empirical reasons like age, injury, and the natural decay of teams that occurs with every single team in the NFL including New England which has had down periods over the last 16 years where they didn't win the Super Bowl and had one year without making the playoffs. New England's defense carried their team during the early Belichick years, then fell off due to age and injury, then he built around Brady and went back to the playoffs and won some more Super Bowls.

No idea why fans want to latch on to emotional reasons for failure. Sure morale was hurt by the Super Bowl loss and goodwill damage. But the team did not fail because of it. I think the primary damage done by the failed second Super Bowl was cheaper contracts for re-signing players or finding new players. Then again if we want to sustain, we need to find ways to support Russell Wilson. He's the future if want to win any more Super Bowls.

As far as I see it, this is just a natural NFL cycle that will be decided by how well they can draft and build around Russell to get back into it. When you have an All-star QB in the modern NFL, you're a few quality players away from contending again.

[RiverDog]

ahh that is a bit of an orange and apples comparison with regards to all pro and QB, there is only 1 QB on an all-pro team, there are 2 CB, So Sherman can be 2nd best and still make while Wilson has to be #1. In addition, given up until this year most of our money went to the defense once again not a fair comparison as the defense had more help.

Hey, welcome back, Anthony!

Not to be picky, but the phrase is apples and oranges, not vice versa.

[HumanCockroach]

ID .... chill... it was a joke. Hence the lol... ultimately, the point is valid, that said, there's really only two vast differences between Seattle and NE pay structure you put up there, one is two expensive safeties instead of one.... the other is indeed the QB.

It isn't coincidence that Seattle's greatest depth and success happened while Wilson was on a rookie 3rd round contract. The money was readily available for pretty much any player they so chose.

[HumanCockroach]

ahh that is a bit of an orange and apples comparison with regards to all pro and QB, there is only 1 QB on an all-pro team, there are 2 CB, So Sherman can be 2nd best and still make while Wilson has to be #1. In addition, given up until this year most of our money went to the defense once again not a fair comparison as the defense had more help

Sweet, someone looking for a dig, not there. Did Seattle RETAIN Wilson? Baldwin, Lynch??

Once again the sweet essence of Wilson's jock creates blindness prohibiting you from READING COMPREHENSION.

It's fundamental.

Back on ignore you go....

[obiken]

Mike Wilbon from PTI agrees with Sherm, he said yesterday that Seattle will fall off the Cliff, he said we are looking at 4-12.

[RiverDog]

Mike Wilbon from PTI agrees with Sherm, he said yesterday that Seattle will fall off the Cliff, he said we are looking at 4-12.

Unless we lose Russell for the season, I view that prediction as about as unlikely as one predicting that we'll go 12-4.

Our offense should be improved, especially the running game. The defense will definetly slide a notch or two, especially if we don't have Earl, but Pete has a way of making the most out of his defensive players. Along with the prospect of an improved running game, those two factors should keep scoring low. Our kicking should be improved for the simple fact that it can't get any worse than it was last season. Considering the way Russell can improvise, I think we'll win our fair share of close games.

So chill out, Obi. It's going to be an interesting season.

[Irish Greg 2.0]

Sherm is right.

But, we also are not going 4-12. Still too much talent.

[idhawkman]

Sherm is right.

But, we also are not going 4-12. Still too much talent.

Great to see you post IG. I miss your postings...

[HumanCockroach]

Offense will indeed improve, unfortunately that defense going to look more like the one that showed up against the Rams at the end of the season, and less like the one that showed up against the same team in LA.

7-9 to 9-7 with a half dozen or so losses 35 to 40+( maybe even a 50 burger or two mixed in) to 24 to 27...

People banking on PCs ability to get the most out of his players, which is reasonable, unfortunately, the players y'all thinking going to basically appear, have either already been on the field last season, or are invisible. There wasn't some enormous influx of talent that I saw, just a purging. If Thomas goes, that only gets worse.

You've got suspect pass rushers and a lack of depth, inexperienced DBs, and niche players expected to do things successfully they've never done well. Ultimately, you've got a great MLB, a great Safety, a decent but young corner, and an aging but solid outside LB...

Competition is great, but not viable in the NFL when pitting infant vs a puppy and a kitten.

You remove ET from that equation, and you've got 2 players left I would be stoked to get, and a whole lot of mediocrity.

[RiverDog]

Offense will indeed improve, unfortunately that defense going to look more like the one that showed up against the Rams at the end of the season, and less like the one that showed up against the same team in LA.

7-9 to 9-7 with a half dozen or so losses 35 to 40+( maybe even a 50 burger or two mixed in) to 24 to 27...

People banking on PCs ability to get the most out of his players, which is reasonable, unfortunately, the players y'all thinking going to basically appear, have either already been on the field last season, or are invisible. There wasn't some enormous influx of talent that I saw, just a purging. If Thomas goes, that only gets worse.

You've got suspect pass rushers and a lack of depth, inexperienced DBs, and niche players expected to do things successfully they've never done well. Ultimately, you've got a great MLB, a great Safety, a decent but young corner, and an aging but solid outside LB...

Competition is great, but not viable in the NFL when pitting infant vs a puppy and a kitten.

You remove ET from that equation, and you've got 2 players left I would be stoked to get, and a whole lot of mediocrity.

I'm in the .500ish range, too, and that's assuming that a few of those "invisible" players, like Shaq Griffin, Rasheem Green, and Bradley McDougald, rise to the occasion.

But we'll see. This is going to be an interesting season. I think that the Rams are the class of the division, but outside of them, there's a lot of question marks up and down our schedule, especially early: Denver and Case Keenum? Chicago and Mitch Turbisky? The dysfunctional Cowboys? Plus the Cards with a new HC and their QB situation?

[HumanCockroach]

I'm not keen on a new offensive system and philosophy taking flight early on unfortunately, think seattle would be ahead of schedule if they win two of those games, most likely MNF against the Bears and maybe Arizona...

[RiverDog]

I'm not keen on a new offensive system and philosophy taking flight early on unfortunately, think seattle would be ahead of schedule if they win two of those games, most likely MNF against the Bears and maybe Arizona...

In past years, I'd be disappointed if we started out 2-2, but I'd gladly take it this year.

[idhawkman]

Pass rush could be a problem this year. I'm curious if last year's no. 1 pick will be in camp next week or if he really is done for life.

[NineR]

We can't stand Sherman but hope in gets RW for a pick 6 and all will be forgiven.

[HumanCockroach]

Interesting, I don't care about pick 6s , I care about wins. You're more than welcome to a pick 6, I'll take two victories and call it good.

[RiverDog]

We can't stand Sherman but hope in gets RW for a pick 6 and all will be forgiven.

All it takes is one play against a team that's not expected to compete for the SB to satisfy you for an entire season?

BTW, welcome to The Shack!

[NineR]

Feels good not having a strong hawks team to compete against for the NFC West. Rams will be tough.

[c_hawkbob]

Feels good not having a strong hawks team to compete against for the NFC West. Rams will be tough.

You really think that's a safe assumption?

[HumanCockroach]

Niners fans, putting the cart before the horse for decades....

Seattle's team this year very well not be "strong competition" unfortunately for you, mediocre still to much to overcome. Good news is, you likely won't be in the basement though, so hey, third place seems doable... well if your big gamble pays off and Grapolo can produce his impressive 1.2 to 1 td to interception ratio.... likely he ups his career TD number of SEVEN to obscene numbers.... maybe even 20... lmfao....

Luck with that, worked so well for teams getting Mallett, Cassell, Brisset etc.... fricken rubes.

[RiverDog]

Feels good not having a strong hawks team to compete against for the NFC West. Rams will be tough.

I wouldn't make any assumptions. The Niners haven't beaten the Hawks twice in a season since 2010 and have lost the last 9 straight contests, including every single matchup since your new stadium opened.

Hopefully you have more to contribute to this forum than a bunch of nonsensical trash talk.

[NineR]

I am enthused this season since the bad vibes are all gone and the team has been totally concentrated on work. They have their heads down in drills and the new playbook and I think we have a future HOF QB.

[HumanCockroach]

Of course... nothing says HOF like 7tds and 5 picks... lmfao... Niners fans always jumping past things... remember when Allison Smith was the greatest LB ever..... yeah, me neither.... or how about how their last SB was the beginning of a new dynasty to rival the 80s.... speaking of which, let's not forget the sure fire HOF QB currently unemployed by any NFL team.... HOF coach Harbaugh.... the list goes on, and on and on...

I'll believe it when I see it. Typically Niners fans nothing but loud mouthed baggerts mired in the 80s that become silent the moment they finally come to the realization that what other fans have been telling them for months or even years is accurate, more knowledgeable about the sport, at least until the next "savior" or HOF QB and Coach that's accomplished squat shows up.

[RiverDog]

I thought that a decent contributor had discovered us, but this Niner guy looks to be a mental midget along the lines of Ramblow. HOF for a QB that has all of 6 starts for them?

[NineR]

No I am just excited since I see some hope this year. If we blow it I will be the first to admit our shortcomings.

[NorthHawk]

SF hit bottom a couple of years ago and are now on the way up.
Is it just a dead cat bounce and they are going to fall back or are they truly ascending? We won't know for a year or so, but on the surface it looks like Lynch has them headed in the right direction.
Their QB looked pretty good with his decision making, but after the DCs have had a larger body of work to study and start taking away his primary options, we will see just how good he is.
The first few games he took some teams by surprise but it will be harder as time goes by.

[RiverDog]

No I am just excited since I see some hope this year. If we blow it I will be the first to admit our shortcomings.

You're making a lot of homer assumptions, like the Seahawks won't be any competition...despite the fact that we've own you guys for the past 4 years...talking about HOF for Garopollo, that all it takes for you to forgive Sherman is a pick 6 against us. That sounds like an undisciplined trash talker to me.

If you want to have an honest discussion, then great, you're welcome to join us. But keep in mind that this is a Seahawk forum, not an NFL or Niners forum. Please behave accordingly. We already have one forum goon ball, we don't need another.

As a side note, the Niners look much improved on paper and Jimmy G. looks like a keeper. But as has been noted, the league is littered with failed Brady backups and he hasn't played long enough for teams to build a history to game plan against. The Niners are pushing their chips to the center of the table betting that he's going to be their savior. If he flops, say hello to another head coach, 40,000 empty seats per game, and more 2-14 misery.

Personally, I'd love to see the Niners become relevant again. For a couple of years, we had the best rivalry in the league, and there was no other team I liked treating like a rag doll more than Hairball's Niner squads.