The Torch was passed last night.

[obiken]

I am not SHF4Ver, I am not out to run Pete outta dodge, but I think with Rosen being the steal of the draft, we are like USC in 09 before my Ducks killed them at Autzen, and Pete bailed to us. Pete is in the last year of his contract and he will be 67 in Sept. I just don't see with all the moves he has made he is in to rebuilding, he has been drug there kicking and screaming. Drafting Penny was a feel good move, not a rebuild move. RB's can have the greatest immediate impact. We needed O Lineman. I would shocked IF Pete stays. Either way the run is over, and the NFC is stacked with Coaches and QB's.

[curmudgeon]

Yep. Seattle went “all in” last season with Richardson & Brown. Now they are left with huge holes to fill, not enough picks to fill them and an abysmal personnel performance since Scot M left. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted......

[obiken]

Yep. Seattle went “all in” last season with Richardson & Brown. Now they are left with huge holes to fill, not enough picks to fill them and an abysmal personnel performance since Scot M left. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted......

That's view Crum, I just with they would have GIVEN THE BALL TO LYNCH!!

[NorthHawk]

I am not SHF4Ver, I am not out to run Pete outta dodge, but I think with Rosen being the steal of the draft, we are like USC in 09 before my Ducks killed them at Autzen, and Pete bailed to us. Pete is in the last year of his contract and he will be 67 in Sept. I just don't see with all the moves he has made he is in to rebuilding, he has been drug there kicking and screaming. Drafting Penny was a feel good move, not a rebuild move. RB's can have the greatest immediate impact. We needed O Lineman. I would shocked IF Pete stays. Either way the run is over, and the NFC is stacked with Coaches and QB's.

Hernandez was the only OL at that point I would have liked. A road grader to go against Suh and/or Donald might have been a good move.
However, if rebuilding the run game is the focus, it's not a bad move to start with the RB you think fits your style the most.

[mykc14]

I am not SHF4Ver, I am not out to run Pete outta dodge, but I think with Rosen being the steal of the draft, we are like USC in 09 before my Ducks killed them at Autzen, and Pete bailed to us. Pete is in the last year of his contract and he will be 67 in Sept. I just don't see with all the moves he has made he is in to rebuilding, he has been drug there kicking and screaming. Drafting Penny was a feel good move, not a rebuild move. RB's can have the greatest immediate impact. We needed O Lineman. I would shocked IF Pete stays. Either way the run is over, and the NFC is stacked with Coaches and QB's.

How is that a 'feel good' move? I have no doubt that PC fully believes that the biggest issue with the run game was not the OL, but rather the RB. This selection proves that. It is also clear that he believes the Hawks took a huge step forward in fixing their running problems last night. Wouldn't you agree that the biggest weakness in our offense last year was our running game? The issue isn't that he's not addressing a huge need, the issue is that you and PC/JS have a different view of the solution.

[Rambo2014]

Finally some sense being talked on this board.

U R wat U R

Rams will win the SB, in fact I am going to plunk down $1,000 on that bet soon when I go to Vegas

[obiken]

Finally some sense being talked on this board.

U R wat U R

Rams will win the SB, in fact I am going to plunk down $1,000 on that bet soon when I go to Vegas

good luck, you will need it.

[obiken]

How is that a 'feel good' move? I have no doubt that PC fully believes that the biggest issue with the run game was not the OL, but rather the RB. This selection proves that. It is also clear that he believes the Hawks took a huge step forward in fixing their running problems last night. Wouldn't you agree that the biggest weakness in our offense last year was our running game? The issue isn't that he's not addressing a huge need, the issue is that you and PC/JS have a different view of the solution.

Its real simple NY, its easier to send an average back through a great hole, than a great back through no hole, sorry our OL is warmed over garbage, we needed a lineman, period. Its not a bust move its just not a good move.

[obiken]

Draft Analysis

Top Needs:
CB •
DL •
OL •
S •
TE
There was zero surprise that the Seahawks traded down, as they expected their guys to be available later. I believe Penny is a good back, but they picked him too early. This is the modus operandi for the Seahawks in recent years, picking someone in the first round much earlier than most people project. And, in most cases, the picks haven't worked out. (Day 1 Grade: D) -- Chad Reuter

[Seahawks4Ever]

You may not be me but you ain't far from my corner.

I know it is hard to admit that Pete Carroll done lost his MOJO a long, long , time ago. The music died the night Wilson didn't hand the ball to Marshawn Lynch the would be MVP and instead threw the ball in to Malcom Butler's hands instead. Butler a player whose HC was so grateful he cost himself a Lombardi of his own when he benched Butler in a hissy fit because he supposed someone questioned his manhood, but that is a different story.

Any how, It is getting harder and harder to deny Pete has blinders on and will never admit two things, one is that he has ever made a mistake and the second thing is that Pete will never admit that he really messed up the O-Line. Oh, there is a third thing PC will never admit is that Paul Allen should fire him but is too much of a pansy to do what needs to be done.

[obiken]

You may not be me but you ain't far from my corner.

I know it is hard to admit that Pete Carroll done lost his MOJO a long, long , time ago. The music died the night Wilson didn't hand the ball to Marshawn Lynch the would be MVP and instead threw the ball in to Malcom Butler's hands instead. Butler a player whose HC was so grateful he cost himself a Lombardi of his own when he benched Butler in a hissy fit because he supposed someone questioned his manhood, but that is a different story.

Any how, It is getting harder and harder to deny Pete has blinders on and will never admit two things, one is that he has ever made a mistake and the second thing is that Pete will never admit that he really messed up the O-Line. Oh, there is a third thing PC will never admit is that Paul Allen should fire him but is too much of a pansy to do what needs to be done.

I agree with 80% of what you say, the difference between you and I is Pete gets this year and next year, based on the SB. His contract runs out this year, I think he is done.

[obiken]

We draft a Project DE out of USC and still no OLineman WTHell!

[Seahawks4Ever]

Pete used up his Super Bowl honeymoon a long time ago. His inattention to the O-Line WASTED one of the greatest defenses EVER assembled, JUST WASTED IT!!! Then he had the gall to blame Bennett and Sherman, Shame on you Pete, SHAME ON YOU !!!

The B.S. ever Pete let Bevell blow the Super Bowl not only taints our SB win but leaves a really foul taste in my mouth as it should every true Seahawk fan.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'll wait and watch. No one thought we would do much with Russell when he was drafted, but we did. No one believed a bunch of 5th round picks and a no name guy with one first rounder could become a legendary secondary unit. Football is a game of percentages. At some point some of these players will work out.

I don't believe anyone is a "steal of the draft" until they prove it. I remember the year Russell was drafted. All the hype around that QB Class was way more than this guy you think is the "steal of the draft." Who's the only guy still standing? Russell Wilson. He was the only steal of the draft and no one was calling him that. The real "steal of the draft" will be some guy you have no idea about. Some guy that went mostly unheralded, but for some reason turns out to be amazing. Everyone else is just some guy until they prove otherwise.

[RiverDog]

We draft a Project DE out of USC and still no OLineman WTHell!

"Still"? We've only had two picks. Let's wait until we get a little deeper into the draft before we accuse them of ignoring needs. The problem is that we just don't have enough picks to address all of our needs, so we might as well go after the BPA, which this guy would seem to fit that profile. Besides, we've pretty much resolved ourselves to a rebuilding year, so we're not drafting for 2018, we're drafting for 2019 or 2020.

If you're going to draft a 'project', it's better to do it on the DL than any other position. He can make an immediate contribution by starting out in the rotation as a 3rd down specialist and play into a starting, 3 down player. You can't do that on the OL.

I like this pick a lot better than I did our first selection. This guy is going to be a stud. He comes from Pete's old stomping ground so you know that he must have had some inside info on him. And if there's one thing that Pete knows how to do, it's coaching up defensive players.

[obiken]

"Still"? We've only had two picks. Let's wait until we get a little deeper into the draft before we accuse them of ignoring needs. The problem is that we just don't have enough picks to address all of our needs, so we might as well go after the BPA, which this guy would seem to fit that profile. Besides, we've pretty much resolved ourselves to a rebuilding year, so we're not drafting for 2018, we're drafting for 2019 or 2020.
If you're going to draft a 'project', it's better to do it on the DL than any other position. He can make an immediate contribution by starting out in the rotation as a 3rd down specialist and play into a starting, 3 down player. You can't do that on the OL.
I like this pick a lot better than I did our first selection. This guy is going to be a stud. He comes from Pete's old stomping ground so you know that he must have had some inside info on him. And if there's one thing that Pete knows how to do, it's coaching up defensive players.

Wow, slammed by River! Ok, I'll take it and then here is back. When has Seattle EVER especially under PC, taken a good, late round OLineman River?? I like Penny, but you could have taken the best OT available at the time and been set for years, then picked up a Royce Freeman in the 2nd. (Denver just got the most productive back in Oregon/Pac-12 history BTW) Backs are dime a dozen. How many backs have we gone through the last 4 years post Lynch?? They only last 4-5 years, lineman last 10-12 maybe longer. The knock on Penny is he cannot pass block, so his not a 3rd down back. So we have a 2 down back with warmed over garbage blocking for him. As your article said the Loser is RW. Now what did I miss here old buddy??

[NorthHawk]

I'm not sure the philosophy of taking the best OL left and we're set for years is valid.
We did that with Carpenter, and Britt, and Ifedi, and Odhiambo and probably others I'm missing.
Of those, only Britt is still there but playing at C instead of T and many see the jury being out for Ifedi (although I think he has a chance to be pretty good, others think he needs to be replaced).
We need a guy to replace what Bennett could do on the DL - namely play both outside and inside. Green isn't there yet, but he might be fairly quickly.

[mykc14]

Wow, slammed by River! Ok, I'll take it and then here is back. When has Seattle EVER especially under PC, taken a good, late round OLineman River?? I like Penny, but you could have taken the best OT available at the time and been set for years, then picked up a Royce Freeman in the 2nd. (Denver just got the most productive back in Oregon/Pac-12 history BTW) Backs are dime a dozen. How many backs have we gone through the last 4 years post Lynch?? They only last 4-5 years, lineman last 10-12 maybe longer. The knock on Penny is he cannot pass block, so his not a 3rd down back. So we have a 2 down back with warmed over garbage blocking for him. Now what did I miss here old buddy??

How many times have the Hawks taken an OL early and they struggle on our roster for multiple years before they either ‘get it’ and move on to another team or are just let go? Mediocre RBs are a dime a dozen, I agree, but our offense was at its best when we had an All-Pro/Pro-Bowl/elite RB and that’s what PC/JS are looking for. Did they get it with Penny, I don’t know but they had their pick of guys after Barkley in a draft that is supposed to be loaded with top end talent. How many years should we pick an OL early? That hasn’t worked. I wish it did. I wish Carp, Ifedi, Britt, and Pocic were all pro-bowlers starting for us, but that’s just not the case. Clearly PC/JS think the issue with the running game isn’t those linemen, but the RB. I agree that a good RB’s career is shorter than an OL, but how nice would it be to have a perennial pro-bowl guy for 5-7 years?

[RiverDog]

Wow, slammed by River! Ok, I'll take it and then here is back. When has Seattle EVER especially under PC, taken a good, late round OLineman River?? I like Penny, but you could have taken the best OT available at the time and been set for years, then picked up a Royce Freeman in the 2nd. (Denver just got the most productive back in Oregon/Pac-12 history BTW) Backs are dime a dozen. How many backs have we gone through the last 4 years post Lynch?? They only last 4-5 years, lineman last 10-12 maybe longer. The knock on Penny is he cannot pass block, so his not a 3rd down back. So we have a 2 down back with warmed over garbage blocking for him. As your article said the Loser is RW. Now what did I miss here old buddy??

Naw, no slamming you, obi. Just a disagreement.

I think mykc said it best. We haven't taken or developed a good OL out of the draft period, let alone one from the later rounds. Plus this is a new regime...sort of. We have a new OC and a new OL coach, so we'll see if they have any better luck finding and procuring OL talent than the previous two knuckleheads.

Our team has a lot of holes to fill, and we can't fill all of them with two picks in the top 3 rounds. We shot for the moon last season, missed, and now we have to pay the price. We might as well reserve ourselves to the fact that Russell is going to spend yet another season running for his life. Look at it from the bright side: Since we're not bringing in high draft picks on the OL to compete for starting positions, our existing players will be able to play together longer and perhaps develop some badly needed continuity.

[Uppercut]

LOL

Alot of GM's on here this morning!

[obiken]

Naw, no slamming you, obi. Just a disagreement.

I think mykc said it best. We haven't taken or developed a good OL out of the draft period, let alone one from the later rounds. Plus this is a new regime...sort of. We have a new OC and a new OL coach, so we'll see if they have any better luck finding and procuring OL talent than the previous two knuckleheads.
Our team has a lot of holes to fill, and we can't fill all of them with two picks in the top 3 rounds. We shot for the moon last season, missed, and now we have to pay the price. We might as well reserve ourselves to the fact that Russell is going to spend yet another season running for his life. Look at it from the bright side: Since we're not bringing in high draft picks on the OL to compete for starting positions, our existing players will be able to play together longer and perhaps develop some badly needed continuity.

Ok River, thats a better analysis. I think its over, Pete drafts a punter?? You never draft a punter in the 5th round! then takes a kid that has a torn ACL, and has a speech impediment, another with one hand, and is a brother to another player. He then drafts a kid out of WA. It's all feel good moves. I am sorry, if am wrong fine, but the war is in the trenches, we lost. I just pray RW doesn't get seriously hurt, or we are doomed.

[Aseahawkfan]

Wow, slammed by River! Ok, I'll take it and then here is back. When has Seattle EVER especially under PC, taken a good, late round OLineman River?? I like Penny, but you could have taken the best OT available at the time and been set for years, then picked up a Royce Freeman in the 2nd. (Denver just got the most productive back in Oregon/Pac-12 history BTW) Backs are dime a dozen. How many backs have we gone through the last 4 years post Lynch?? They only last 4-5 years, lineman last 10-12 maybe longer. The knock on Penny is he cannot pass block, so his not a 3rd down back. So we have a 2 down back with warmed over garbage blocking for him. As your article said the Loser is RW. Now what did I miss here old buddy??

I want you to look up studies on run games and QBs, show me where the O-line is more important than the quality of the QB or RB. O-line is vastly over-rated. The quality of the RB and QB far more important. Having a highly rated O-line does not equate to a better overall team. If his guy Penny works out, he will do more to improve the offense than a high quality O-line guy.

[NorthHawk]

That will work when there is an OL that is average and the RB is very good, but the last 2 years we've had a below average OL and sub par Running Backs.
The results show how well that turned out.
So now we have a different OL coach who may be able to get something more out of the group and have added one of the best blocking TE's to help out.
Maybe that combination along with an upgraded RB will permit us to establish a more consistent run game.

[obiken]

That will work when there is an OL that is average and the RB is very good, but the last 2 years we've had a below average OL and sub par Running Backs.
The results show how well that turned out.
So now we have a different OL coach who may be able to get something more out of the group and have added one of the best blocking TE's to help out.
Maybe that combination along with an upgraded RB will permit us to establish a more consistent run game.

A lot of IF's and maybe's in all that. As Churchill said the Terrible IF's compound. What IF Penny gets hurt, and is out for a year, we lose another lineman and we have just 1 new guy coming in as a backup, IF he makes the team. Tom Cable was supposed to be good, maybe in Oakland he might be again. WE needed BLOCKERS, period, not BS, and happy horsey poo poo, lets put brothers together! OLineman are overrated? Not even touching that one. Its all Sweet dreams and flying machines ended up in pieces on the ground, and our Franchise QB, ends up in Virginia Mason hospital.

[NorthHawk]

Yah, well, life is a gamble.
Remember, none of the draft picks from the top to bottom are guaranteed to make a difference in the NFL.
Teams draft potential and make coaching changes based on potential, so we will have to wait to see how it turns out.

[Aseahawkfan]

That will work when there is an OL that is average and the RB is very good, but the last 2 years we've had a below average OL and sub par Running Backs.
The results show how well that turned out.
So now we have a different OL coach who may be able to get something more out of the group and have added one of the best blocking TE's to help out.
Maybe that combination along with an upgraded RB will permit us to establish a more consistent run game.

I've found a great RB and a QB that makes reads makes the O-line look better. I'm never going to overly criticize Russell partly because I don't think it's his fault, but he doesn't run a traditional rhythm offense. He was trained from the get go in what Pete termed a scrambling offense. That scrambling style of offense is very hard on O-lines because the QB ends up holding onto the ball a lot longer and leaving the pocket more often, which sets up the O-line for failure.

Russell's career longevity will require that he run a rhythm offense. You can only run a scrambling style of offense so long before you slow down enough that you're getting hit more of than you're escaping and making a big play. I think it's time to transition, which should allow the O-line to play in a more traditional fashion. I think that will likely lead to improve performance. Let's be real here: the big uglies don't run around very well. Russell needs to start making quick reads and running the offense in a rhythmic style with simple bread and butter plays than running around. He needs to save the running around for when we really need it and the end of games.

[RiverDog]

I'm not sold on Penny and felt we had an opportunity to trade down and get him at a lower value, but I like the rest of the selections with one exception. Green is going to be a monster. He has all the raw talent necessary for stardom and Pete is a magician at coaching defensive players up. Griffin was a true steal, would have been a first or second round pick if not for his handicap and if he doesn't start right away, will show up big time on special teams. I also liked that they got a good blocking tight end out of UW (which used to be known as Tight End U) and an offensive tackle out of Ohio State. I'm disappointed that we traded up for a punter, which I view as a luxury for a team looking just for a tweak here or there, not one in a rebuilding mode.

So if I were to give a grade, I'd put us as a solid B, downgrading us mainly for the reach/failure to trade down in the first and trading up for a frigging punter. Overall, I think that this is a good first step at rebuilding our team.

This is going to make camp interesting, more so than in previous years as 3 or 4 of those guys have a chance to contribute immediately.

[Hawktawk]

I'm not sold on Penny and felt we had an opportunity to trade down and get him at a lower value, but I like the rest of the selections with one exception. Green is going to be a monster. He has all the raw talent necessary for stardom and Pete is a magician at coaching defensive players up. Griffin was a true steal, would have been a first or second round pick if not for his handicap and if he doesn't start right away, will show up big time on special teams. I also liked that they got a good blocking tight end out of UW (which used to be known as Tight End U) and an offensive tackle out of Ohio State. I'm disappointed that we traded up for a punter, which I view as a luxury for a team looking just for a tweak here or there, not one in a rebuilding mode.

So if I were to give a grade, I'd put us as a solid B, downgrading us mainly for the reach/failure to trade down in the first and trading up for a frigging punter. Overall, I think that this is a good first step at rebuilding our team.

This is going to make camp interesting, more so than in previous years as 3 or 4 of those guys have a chance to contribute immediately.

I love Penney.7 return TDs says it all and hes a tough fast starting RB to boot. Giving Rocket Lockett a breather will help him in the receiving game. Return game could be special.

Other than that who the hell knows? Is it rebuild or reload mode.Can a one handed LB play in the show? Did Schneider pull off another 2012/

For all the hand wringing this team was 9-7, could have been anywhere from 7-9 to 11-5 by my math with a play here and there and that was with #3 as our leading rusher by a mile. Give it a chance....

[NorthHawk]

I'm not sold on Penny and felt we had an opportunity to trade down and get him at a lower value, but I like the rest of the selections with one exception. Green is going to be a monster. He has all the raw talent necessary for stardom and Pete is a magician at coaching defensive players up. Griffin was a true steal, would have been a first or second round pick if not for his handicap and if he doesn't start right away, will show up big time on special teams. I also liked that they got a good blocking tight end out of UW (which used to be known as Tight End U) and an offensive tackle out of Ohio State. I'm disappointed that we traded up for a punter, which I view as a luxury for a team looking just for a tweak here or there, not one in a rebuilding mode.

So if I were to give a grade, I'd put us as a solid B, downgrading us mainly for the reach/failure to trade down in the first and trading up for a frigging punter. Overall, I think that this is a good first step at rebuilding our team.

This is going to make camp interesting, more so than in previous years as 3 or 4 of those guys have a chance to contribute immediately.

The opportunity to trade down and get Penny later is plain wrong. A team wanted to trade for him after we selected him, and other teams reportedly had him ranked as the 2nd RB in the draft with late 1st/early 2nd round ratings.
It doesn't guarantee he's going to be a good player, but he more than probably wouldn't have been there if we traded down again.
I think with the addition of Dissly and one of the FA Fullbacks who can block hopefully making the team, our run game might just get back on track.

[Seahawks4Ever]

IThis draft more than exceeded my expectations but it breathed new life back in to my respect for the Seahawk Brain Trust which of course starts at the top. I am hoping that I have been selling Pete short and maybe he does have a second act and is fully capable of tearing it down to build it back up again. All I know is that Paul Allen was right there in the war room signing off on every thing so PC has his 100% support and what Head Coach wouldn't want that?

[obiken]

The opportunity to trade down and get Penny later is plain wrong. A team wanted to trade for him after we selected him, and other teams reportedly had him ranked as the 2nd RB in the draft with late 1st/early 2nd round ratings.
It doesn't guarantee he's going to be a good player, but he more than probably wouldn't have been there if we traded down again.
I think with the addition of Dissly and one of the FA Fullbacks who can block hopefully making the team, our run game might just get back on track.

That is total BS, Not you, the story. That was floated to cover their Azzez with the fans, period. IF people thought he was all that great they would have picked him above us. He is not that much better than Royce Freeman. This draft was no brainer, get a couple of OLineman to fix our problems, Pete fumbled the ball, he always fumbles the ball on the OL. OUR OL SUCKS BIG DONKEY DICKS, and yet even some smart fans continue to back stupid moves. It's all fuzzy and warm till have to block Donald and Suh with our crap! Did I miss something here?? Grade D, only because yeah I think Penny will be a good not great back.

[NorthHawk]

They also said that if they couldn't trade down, they would have taken him at 18, but felt the RBs wouldn't start going off the board until the latter part of R1.
Whether it's all a lie or not, I don't know but it was said.

[HumanCockroach]

Hmmm... people always seem to forget the rest of the game when it comes to blaming the scapegoat.... I wonder, how many turnovers, or points handed to the other team by the offense has to occur prior to people grasping it was more than a kicker costing us those games..

[RiverDog]

The opportunity to trade down and get Penny later is plain wrong. A team wanted to trade for him after we selected him, and other teams reportedly had him ranked as the 2nd RB in the draft with late 1st/early 2nd round ratings.
It doesn't guarantee he's going to be a good player, but he more than probably wouldn't have been there if we traded down again.
I think with the addition of Dissly and one of the FA Fullbacks who can block hopefully making the team, our run game might just get back on track.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. First off, the rumor that someone was interested in trading for Penny is just that: A rumor. Schneider didn't disclose which team was interested or what they were offering in return. It could have just been random feelers sent out by another GM, even something made in jest that JS took the wrong way, and not an actual trade proposal. Besides, even if a team was making a genuine proposal, it wouldn't have precluded the Hawks from moving back a few slots and picking up Penny later. For example, if that team that Schneider was eluding to as wanting to trade for Penny was the Redskins, who ended up drafting Guice with their 2nd round selection, there would have been another 31 slots between their next pick at #59 and where we were sitting at #27.

But be that as it may. My point is that we have a tendoncy to reach for picks, at least in the early rounds, and Penny fits that pattern. I'm not an advocate of letting conventional wisdom dictate our picks, but it does seem that they don't work out more often than they do.

On the positive side, Penny has a good health record, something that a couple of the other RB's rated ahead of him didn't have. A lot of the players we have reach for in the past have had an injury history that caused them to slide down the chart.

[NorthHawk]

I wouldn't be so sure of that. First off, the rumor that someone was interested in trading for Penny is just that: A rumor.

It isn't a rumor, it was a statement made by Schneider. He flat out said it and followed with saying he had never heard of it happening before.
That doesn't mean it wasn't a lie, but it does mean it wasn't a rumor.
The team might have also been the Browns at 35 who took Nick Chubb. So if it was them then we would have missed out on the player they most wanted in the draft.

Please stop with the reach stuff. It's just not provable because we don't ever get to see all teams draft boards and as we see in every draft, the pundits are wrong in evaluations and predictions.
It may not be what we would have done or wanted when picks are made, but we don't have all the information about the players and scheme modifications and fits either.
With this pick, PC said they watched the film and SD State ran some of the same plays they will run this year. That, and coming from a pro style Offense should flatten the learning curve a llittle for Penny.

[RiverDog]

It (that a team offered to trade for Penny) isn't a rumor, it was a statement made by Schneider.

It was a fact that he said it, but the statement itself was very simple and unjustified with no other information to support it. I'm not saying that he lied, but it's entirely possible that it was just idle talk and not a true proposal.

The team might have also been the Browns at 35 who took Nick Chubb. So if it was them then we would have missed out on the player they most wanted in the draft.

Very true, but no more or less likely than my speculation about the Redskins.

Please stop with the reach stuff. It's just not provable because we don't ever get to see all teams draft boards and as we see in every draft, the pundits are wrong in evaluations and predictions.

Sorry, I intend to continue if it so pleases me. And I'll argue that it is a fact, as there were at least 2 (Chubb and Guice) and as many as 5 other running backs that were consistently rated higher by the consensus than Penny that were available at the time we selected. That's the definition of a reach, not too much different than the definition of a favorite or an underdog. And like I said, I'm not advocating that we go by the consensus choice.

It may not be what we would have done or wanted when picks are made, but we don't have all the information about the players and scheme modifications and fits either.

No argument there.

With this pick, PC said they watched the film and SD State ran some of the same plays they will run this year. That, and coming from a pro style Offense should flatten the learning curve a llittle for Penny.

Well, let's hope so. One of the raps on Penny is that he's a little slow to pick up on new concepts. He's also going to have to learn how to pass block, so I don't expect him to get a lot of snaps on offense, at least not initially. But I hear he's a very good special teams player, which no doubt influenced their selection.

[NorthHawk]

It was a fact that he said it, but the statement itself was very simple and unjustified with no other information to support it. I'm not saying that he lied, but it's entirely possible that it was just idle talk and not a true proposal.

I heard it live and then watched the replay. It wasn't idle talk, but a definite statement.

Very true, but no more or less likely than my speculation about the Redskins.

Chubb and Penny are very comparable in their style, abilities, and size. Guice is quite a different player, so it looks to me like it was the Browns more than Washington.

Sorry, I intend to continue if it so pleases me. And I'll argue that it is a fact, as there were at least 2 (Chubb and Guice) and as many as 5 other running backs that were consistently rated higher by the consensus than Penny that were available at the time we selected. That's the definition of a reach, not too much different than the definition of a favorite or an underdog. And like I said, I'm not advocating that we go by the consensus choice.

Your choice to use media evaluations to determine if someone is a reach, but you can't prove it so it becomes more rumor or innuendo than what JS said.
I always thought a reach was drafting a player far before he should go and not that there is a pool of comparable players later on. So if one stands out, then that player would go higher than the group of others.
In this case at least 2 teams thought he was the 2nd best RB in the draft. If you want to use media as your source, there were a lot of scouts who said Penny was their 2nd RB and gave him late 1st or early 2nd round grades according to some of the stories I've read.

[idhawkman]

No sense arguing over Penny at this point and how he will compare to Chubb or Guice. Personally, I think Penny was a great choice but that won't be proven for a couple of years from now. I am also biased because I saw him tear up my college team more than once. I have not watched a whole game of Guice or Chubb so I consider my opinion skewed. Nevertheless, I think people will be surprised by Penny and since we drafted him, I'm hoping I'm right on that.

19-0 in 2018!

[obiken]

No sense arguing over Penny at this point and how he will compare to Chubb or Guice. Personally, I think Penny was a great choice but that won't be proven for a couple of years from now. I am also biased because I saw him tear up my college team more than once. I have not watched a whole game of Guice or Chubb so I consider my opinion skewed. Nevertheless, I think people will be surprised by Penny and since we drafted him, I'm hoping I'm right on that.

19-0 in 2018!

Again, my issue was never with Penny, its with Pete not filling the OL. This why the Pats are perennial and the rest of us are transitional.

[NorthHawk]

The Pats have also had one of the best OL coaches in Dante Scarneccia (sp) who really knows how to identify and use players best for the scheme they want to run.
When he retired for a year, Brady got hit more than he ever had and when Belichick coaxed him back their OL improved and they won a SB.
We have had the opposite where no players excepting a few ever really got a chance to settle in and learn one position.