Re-make, Re-model

[curmudgeon]

It will be interesting to see if Pete and John begin the player purge. It appears that is once again, time........

[DallasHawk]

Some coaches also...

[c_hawkbob]

can we PLEASE get an O-line now?

[RiverDog]

can we PLEASE get an O-line now?

Are you kidding? We already have a VASTLY improved offensive line. We need to trade up and get us a quarterback.

[Hawktawk]

can we PLEASE get an O-line now?

Exactly. The 10 million dollar guys on defense aren't worth much injured or slowing down.
Give Russ and Rawls a line . They have shown how explosive they can be .
Rawls 11 carries. Fire bevfool the day after 49. Oh wait......

[Zorn76]

I still like Britt, Infedi, and Glow up front, but we will have at least two new starters next year.

Pretty disappointing day, even for this group, given that we made the Falcon Defense look similar to ours from a few years ago.

This didn't feel like our year but I'm surprised it was the first half that we showed up for instead of the 2nd today.

[obiken]

can we PLEASE get an O-line now?

YEAH BABY, the great experiment is over, we need some real Offensive LINEMAN that can actually block!

[Oly]

I like the interior OL going forward. But the Hawks are in desperate need of new tackles. The rest of the offense needs tweaking rather than a remake; replace Kearse with a big target, bring in another TE that can block, and I think they are set at the top of the depth chart.

On defense, upgrade from Lane and get a pass rushing DT, and I think the top of the depth chart looks pretty good there (unless the DEs start showing their age). I'm also curious to see if PC tries to get another Irvin-type player.

[obiken]

Are you kidding? We already have a VASTLY improved offensive line. We need to trade up and get us a quarterback.

River, please tell me you are joking.

[mykc14]

No need to completely revamp anything. We NEED to improve along the oline. We have an extremely talented roster that has the financial flexibility to improve. The window isn't closing and we don't need to clean house. Improve Oline, get healthy, stay healthy seems like a recipe for a good run to me...

[obiken]

http://www.espn.com/blog/seattle-seahaw ... age-season

Great read. We cant just retool the OL we only have 5.1 million unless you get rid of Graham.

[Anthony]

http://www.espn.com/blog/seattle-seahawks/post/_/id/24030/seahawks-fall-short-of-super-bowl-goal-during-average-season

Great read. We cant just retool the OL we only have 5.1 million unless you get rid of Graham.

reread it, it says we only have 5.1 mil committed to the oline, we are over 30 mil under the cap for next year

[mykc14]

http://www.espn.com/blog/seattle-seahawks/post/_/id/24030/seahawks-fall-short-of-super-bowl-goal-during-average-season

Great read. We cant just retool the OL we only have 5.1 million unless you get rid of Graham.

The article doesn't say we only have 5.1 mil in cap space next year, it says we only have 5.1 mil spent on the oline. Spotrac has us at 37.8 mil in space next year with every starter still under contract except hauschka, mike Morgan, and tony McDaniel. You could also throw marcel Reece in there as well. All of those are cheap resigns, if we want them. We are actually in really good salary cap space heading into the offseason.

[Hawktawk]

Bye hauchka. Fire Bevell twice and use graham, don't trade him. Cut kearse so there is no way Russell can target him anymore.

[Hawkstar]

Bye hauchka. Fire Bevell twice and use graham, don't trade him. Cut kearse so there is no way Russell can target him anymore.

I'm firmly in the Frie Bevell camp. It's time. Definitely keep Graham. Definitely cut Kearse.

[HumanCockroach]

Give it a rest RD, You aren't baiting me, I could care less, and honestly rubbing salt in open wounds of someone that bleeds blue and green and has for thirty years is pretty low class, and more something I expect of Niners or Boys fans, not 12's.

I don't remember seeing jabs after the 90 yard opening drive, or the Detroit game, young players need to find consistency, that's life. I can cope, even if you can't, or aren't willing to.

[NorthHawk]

RT, DL, OLB to play Irvin's role, RB, and CB are what I see as areas to address.
The OL should be a lot more consistent with a full off season and TC behind them, but I hope there isn't the wholesale change like this year or we will see more of the same.

RB is, to me an unknown as neither Rawls or Prosise has been able to stay healthy. This draft has a number of possible backs, so I expect an addition.

[HumanCockroach]

No need to completely revamp anything. We NEED to improve along the oline. We have an extremely talented roster that has the financial flexibility to improve. The window isn't closing and we don't need to clean house. Improve Oline, get healthy, stay healthy seems like a recipe for a good run to me...

Yep, but only if there's an available upgrade, with tread left, and isn't going to eat all of the available cap space. Unfortunately for Seattle, there isn't going to BE any tackle upgrades wandering the streets, regardless of how much we need or want them, seems to be a major sticking point or a point of confusion for many, year after year after year.

Best we can hope for is a team up against the cap being dumb enough to release one ( fat chance) or trading up for a high draft pick ( unlikely to part with the bulk of our draft for a single rookie line prospect) or keep drafting them repeatedly, how our injured players come back fully healthy, and pray that one of them blows up the odds and excels far greater than expected, and learn a little patience allowing them to fully develop.

There really is no realistic alternatives, barring pipe dreams like trading for Thomas or something which is highly unlikely and doubtful at best.

[Hawktawk]

Our front 7 was as pathetic as any unit on the field . Their inability to stop the run or consistently get pressure on Ryan is the biggest story of the game. I guess Bennett tried to gouge an offensive lineman in the eye and threatened a reporter who asked about the anemic pass rush.

Et will help but this defense is going sideways and cannot stop good teams anymore or even bad teams with a good offense as Az showed. The last 3 decent to excellent offenses rolled it up on us. It ain't all the offensive line

[mykc14]

Yep, but only if there's an available upgrade, with tread left, and isn't going to eat all of the available cap space. Unfortunately for Seattle, there isn't going to BE any tackle upgrades wandering the streets, regardless of how much we need or want them, seems to be a major sticking point or a point of confusion for many, year after year after year.

Best we can hope for is a team up against the cap being dumb enough to release one ( fat chance) or trading up for a high draft pick ( unlikely to part with the bulk of our draft for a single rookie line prospect) or keep drafting them repeatedly, how our injured players come back fully healthy, and pray that one of them blows up the odds and excels far greater than expected, and learn a little patience allowing them to fully develop.

There really is no realistic alternatives, barring pipe dreams like trading for Thomas or something which is highly unlikely and doubtful at best.

Yeah I know. I've been in the camp that we have certainly put resources into the o line in the PC era. I agree that there weren't any realistic upgrades to be had in the offseason last year, and the obvious hope would be that fant improves to be an adequate lineman next year, but that will be a stretch IMO. We need to find an improvement there. Along the same lines my biggest disappointment this year has to be Gary Gilliam. I thought he would be a decent LT due to his improved play towards the end of the year last year but somehow he got worse. We need an upgrade there as well. I would love if the upgrade could simply be to another off-season to improve but I just don't know if its enough. I agree don't over-spend a ton (raiders OG) just to do something or reach just to get an OT in the draft so you have one, but trade, beg, borrow, or steal to improve upfront. There are back ups on other teams that could start for us. We've seen the Hawks find those guys a make a move for them. It's been awhile but PC and JS need to work some online magic this offseason.

[Hawktawk]

Is it time to discuss moving Sherman in the right deal? I know it's Julio but he got embarrassed before and after the catch. We haven't had a pick in 6 games . Is that a 10 Million dollar corner you saw tonight?

Not to mention all the diva bs this year. I had his back at first but put up or shut up.
This team called the pats trade guys in their later prime all the time.
The results speak for themselves .

No attacks please I'm just asking.
The defense has as much to do with the stumble down the stretch as anything....

[HumanCockroach]

Not sure how trading a top five corner in the league, in his prime, helps this team in any way shape or form.

[Hawktawk]

Not sure how trading a top five corner in the league, in his prime, helps this team in any way shape or form.

Ok HC. I might quibble with the top 5 second half of the year, especially after Earl went down . No picks by he or anyone last 7 games actually and sherm looked slow tonight .
i want tackles absolutely. I realize you like the line and I like it some days like last Saturday.
First couple of drives tonight till Ifedi got hurt were good .But 3 sacks and 17 pressures ?

I'm just playing devils advocate . What would it take?

The lob is dead .build another way.

[The POPE]

Sherman has been exposed a little without ET there to cover his ass. He can't play as free and take as many chances without ET. The LOB was great when all the members were there. Not anymore, getting older, slower, and more injury prone. Put Sherman on another team, in a different scheme, with no ET and at best you have an above average corner, but not a top 5 corner. With ET coming back no changes will be made with the major players.The LOB is not to be feared anymore. Teams don't fear Sherman, Kam, or any of the role players anymore. Maybe they can get the swagger back, but some changes will need to be made. It will be interesting to see what those are, if any

[HumanCockroach]

LOL. Only in a place used to excellent defensive backs can people look at this season and think that a better way is to dismantle a defensive backfield with three all pros under thirty years of age.

It is as hard to find corners as Quarterbacks or tackles, they aren't just falling off trees fellas, and about twenty five or so teams don't have that luxury. You guys really want to be Detroit West? I'll pass. Defense matters, period, anyone saying otherwise, either is looking for clicks, or hasn't been paying attention.

[RiverDog]

Sherman has been exposed a little without ET there to cover his ass. He can't play as free and take as many chances without ET. The LOB was great when all the members were there. Not anymore, getting older, slower, and more injury prone. Put Sherman on another team, in a different scheme, with no ET and at best you have an above average corner, but not a top 5 corner. With ET coming back no changes will be made with the major players.The LOB is not to be feared anymore. Teams don't fear Sherman, Kam, or any of the role players anymore. Maybe they can get the swagger back, but some changes will need to be made. It will be interesting to see what those are, if any

I think that's a good take. Earl makes up for a lot of deficiencies in that secondary, and so long as he comes back strong off his injury, I don't think there's a huge concern with the LOB. Not that Earl never whiffs, but Terrell had a really tough night tackling. We ran into a buzz saw against Atlanta tonight and I don't think using their performance against us in their house as a yardstick is a good way to measure our needs. Defensively, we need a little more consistent pressure up front, but I'm not sure we need wholesale changes there, either.

But we need to do something about our offensive line. Enough of the experiments and projects. We need two good bookends, and I would be open to upgrading the interior if a good opportunity presents itself. We have to quit shopping in the bargain basement and look for some quality talent.

And on a slightly different subject, don't let anyone rationalize a tie and tell you that they seldom hurt a team. Had Hauschka hit that chip shot FG against the Cards, Atlanta would have opened against the Lions and we would have been playing that game in our house.

[RiverDog]

Give it a rest RD, You aren't baiting me, I could care less, and honestly rubbing salt in open wounds of someone that bleeds blue and green and has for thirty years is pretty low class, and more something I expect of Niners or Boys fans, not 12's.

I don't remember seeing jabs after the 90 yard opening drive, or the Detroit game, young players need to find consistency, that's life. I can cope, even if you can't, or aren't willing to.

A little of your own medicine, HC. Along with several others in here that you've taunted, I've been bleeding blue and green for 40 years and that doesn't seem to carry any weight with you when it comes to rubbing salt into wounds. You've bait many in here in the same manner I'm bating you, and not just once or twice, so unless you're willing to back away from the salt shaker, don't cry foul when someone else picks it up and rubs it into one of your wounds.

I disagree with your assessment of our problems on the OL. It's a little more serious than just some younger players needing to find more consistency. We need an infusion of some quality talent, particularly at tackle.

[HumanCockroach]

That's crap. I made a post in what? Week 6? That was indeed accurate regardless of your feelings on it, don't give a golden polished turd what your beef is, the statement at the time was 100 percent accurate, and you've spent the ENTIRE f#cking season going back to it. I've expressed my opinion on it a thousand times, a thousand different ways, interestingly enough, when they played well ( which happened far more often than you have ever been willing to admit) or showed promise, did I personally try to bait you? Did I continually call you out? No? Imagine that. Baiting is directly pointed at someone, not a general statement. You've admitted it, acknowledged it, even gone so far as to apologise for it, and have claimed you were going to end it. Yet every couple weeks, there it is again ( not that I should have ever believed you could do what you said, so I reckon that's my fault somehow).

WTF ever RD. I don't give a F#ck what your opinion of it is, you're pissy ( just like you are after every single loss, and unsatisfied after every win "but it was only insert whatever team you want"). I tend to let go quickly and look forward. You want to revel in the misery, that's your deal, enjoy it, I couldn't care less, leave me out of it. b****, moan and whine to your heart's delight.

Posting an article showing improvement isn't baiting anyone, nor is agreeing with it, nor is noting the improvements made, you seem to have a severe case of an overdeveloped sense of worth believing everything posted needs your judgement and approval, if it doesn't meet your standards, too damn bad.

Peace out.

[RiverDog]

That's crap. I made a post in what? Week 6? That was indeed accurate regardless of your feelings on it, don't give a golden polished turd what your beef is, the statement at the time was 100 percent accurate, and you've spent the ENTIRE f#cking season going back to it. I've expressed my opinion on it a thousand times, a thousand different ways, interestingly enough, when they played well ( which happened far more often than you have ever been willing to admit) or showed promise, did I personally try to bait you? Did I continually call you out? No? Imagine that. Baiting is directly pointed at someone, not a general statement. You've admitted it, acknowledged it, even gone so far as to apologise for it, and have claimed you were going to end it. Yet every couple weeks, there it is again ( not that I should have ever believed you could do what you said, so I reckon that's my fault somehow).

WTF ever RD. I don't give a F#ck what your opinion of it is, you're pissy ( just like you are after every single loss, and unsatisfied after every win "but it was only insert whatever team you want"). I tend to let go quickly and look forward. You want to revel in the misery, that's your deal, enjoy it, I couldn't care less, leave me out of it. b****, moan and whine to your heart's delight.

Posting an article showing improvement isn't baiting anyone, nor is agreeing with it, nor is noting the improvements made, you seem to have a severe case of an overdeveloped sense of worth believing everything posted needs your judgement and approval, if it doesn't meet your standards, too damn bad.

Peace out.

"That is completely and unequivocally the lines fault, haven't you been paying attention?"

Who posted that remark and when? Is that not the same type of sarcasm and about the same subject that you are complaining about that I'm using against you?

It doesn't seem like you want to move on or forget about it at all as you say something similar after every overthrow and dropped pass.

[HumanCockroach]

I'm one hundred percent sure, I replied to another poster ( even has his post attached). Not sure where you got the idea that making a joke with another poster ( you know what that was, hence the lol face at the end) is somehow an attempt to bait you, but it isn't. Am I now to be worried how you're going to take a post made Directly to another poster now? Fear RD's judgement? You've got to be kidding. No one can believe every post, to every member, is somehow a direct attack or reply to them, can they? What kind of ego does that take?

It was a fricken joke about missed receivers, unfortunately, I didn't realize judge RD would take offense, I postulate before the almighty RD, should have known better.

Barf.

Since you seem to have MISSED the whole exchange somehow ( maybe you didn't feel like looking, or are too busy chastising others) I've conveniently posted the link to that Shane here. The comment is OBVIOUSLY in reference to MISSED open receivers, and it's been made crystal clear to me, that the fault lies 100℅ at the feet of the line, solely the line, with zero fault placed upon our QB, by many here including you.

: Official Seahawks vs Falcons Playoff Game Thread
by HumanCockroach » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:23 pm
Hawkstar wrote:
The over throw.... Missing guys all season.


That is completely and unequivocally the lines fault, haven't you been paying attention?



There was only three missed open TDs do to overthrows, come on man ( this game that is, I lost track of the season number). Really, I mean a mere 15 points, it isn't like it matters.

[RiverDog]

I'm one hundred percent sure, I replied to another poster ( even has his post attached). Not sure where you got the idea that making a joke with another poster ( you know what that was, hence the lol face at the end) is somehow an attempt to bait you, but it isn't. Am I now to be worried how you're going to take a post made Directly to another poster now? Fear RD's judgement? You've got to be kidding. No one can believe every post, to every member, is somehow a direct attack or reply to them, can they? What kind of ego does that take?

It was a fricken joke about missed receivers, unfortunately, I didn't realize judge RD would take offense, I postulate before the almighty RD, should have known better.

Barf.

It doesn't matter who you were addressing, HC. It's an open forum and we all read it, and since we've disagreed on the OL, it's directed at me as much as it is the poster you replied to. Besides, if given enough time, I could find another similar quote. That was just the most convenient one to throw back at you.

My "vastly improved" line is no less of a joke than your sarcastic remarks about Russell's overthrows. If you want me to forget it and move on, stop reminding me of it. I really don't have a problem with your sarcasm and I took no offense to your remark that I quoted, but I do have a problem with your whining about having salt rubbed into your wound when it's the exact same tact you've been employing on others.

[obiken]

Our front 7 was as pathetic as any unit on the field . Their inability to stop the run or consistently get pressure on Ryan is the biggest story of the game. I guess Bennett tried to gouge an offensive lineman in the eye and threatened a reporter who asked about the anemic pass rush.

Et will help but this defense is going sideways and cannot stop good teams anymore or even bad teams with a good offense as Az showed. The last 3 decent to excellent offenses rolled it up on us. It ain't all the offensive line

Man you got guts, and I agree with you but I didn't want to be the first to say it. Our DL got run over today. In fact since losing Bryant and Mebane we havent had the shutdown on the run like the ole days. I would not have signed Bennett and I really do not know what to do about Kam. Sherm is going to have a sit down with the man now. He cannot be telling the OC's how to do their jobs.

The OL is priorty however.

[HumanCockroach]

Awesome to know that you also get to decide not only what was meant, but to whom it was addressing RD. What a f#cking joke. Read it again, was it a dig? Or was it simply an attempt to express frustration over Wilson's inability to hit wide open receivers running In for a TD this season while attempting to avoid the Wilson can do no wrong crowd? ( You know you, Anthony etc).... Hmmm? I suppose I could go yours and Obi's deathnell way, and profess Wilson as garbage, talk about trading him, or blowing up the team, act distraught about the SB window being closed, call for coaches heads, or the dumping of players up and down the board, but that's not me, never has been, and never will be.

Get over yourself, life nor this board revolves around your opinion, belief or judgement.

[obiken]

Steve has been a good kicker but he has got to go too, too many misses folks.

[RiverDog]

Awesome to know that you also get to decide not only what was meant, but to whom it was addressing RD. What a f#cking joke. Read it again, was it a dig? Or was it simply an attempt to express frustration over Wilson's inability to hit wide open receivers running In for a TD this season while attempting to avoid the Wilson can do no wrong crowd? ( You know you, Anthony etc).... Hmmm?

Get over yourself, life nor this board revolves around your opinion, belief or judgement.

I told you what your remark meant to me, which was a dig at our differences in characterizing the OL. I didn't say anything about your intentions. If it wasn't for the fact that you've used that 'joke' repeatedly over the past two months, I probably wouldn't have interpreted it as I did.

Now, if you want to change the subject and move on....You're exactly right about Russell's inability to hit open receivers yesterday. We can't expect him to drop in every pass perfectly, but he had his opportunities and failed. He missed Baldwin twice for TD's that I can remember, when he had 2 steps on the DB down the middle of the field and in the red zone when he led him back into the defender instead of throwing more to the corner. He did hit Richardson on two nicely thrown deep balls, though, so it's hard to lay too much blame on him missing open receivers. Russell played relatively well, but not good enough to win.

[HumanCockroach]

Nah, I'm done. I'm honestly, not in the least, interested in this crap anymore. I'm tired, you win RD. I'm out. At least for a while. I'm sure you and Obi and Anthony can enjoy a nice long discussion about the failings of the line, FO and the defense that needs dismantling without me involved. Enjoy, I haven't the energy, or desire to be continually accused of doing or saying things I haven't.

[RiverDog]

Nah, I'm done. I'm honestly, not in the least, interested in this crap anymore. I'm tired, you win RD. I'm out. At least for a while. I'm sure you and Obi and Anthony can enjoy a nice long discussion about the failings of the line, FO and the defense that needs dismantling without me involved. Enjoy, I haven't the energy, or desire to be continually accused of doing or saying things I haven't.

You were accused of saying things that you hadn't? You didn't defend the "vastly improved" characterization in the article that you posted? What the heck subject was it that we were debating for the past 2-3 months, with your comparisons of sack rates between last season and this year? You're really getting defensive by using some convenient memory lapses and portraying yourself as a victim of some sort of bullying tactic. Go back and re-read some of your own very inflammatory language. You can dish it out, but you can't take it.

But I understand your taking a step back. I've done it myself on occasion. Hopefully it's a short one as I do enjoy debating you and consider you to be very good football mind. Come back when your batteries are re-charged.

[Hawktawk]

BOYS BOYS!!!!lets don't cannibalize one another.

Everyone has a point. The team needs to do some soul searching and the fans need to smell some coffee.

It isn't all the line. It isn't all on Russ. It's not ALL bevfools fault. The shutdown defense isn't any more.

It's everything. There doesn't seem to be the family atmosphere with the players.
Guys got paid . Russ got married .

It's an attitude adjustment needed. Some people need to go in the coaching staff and some players too no matter how popular. These guys are no longer the sum of their parts .

The old boss meet the new boss bludgeoning yesterday was about more than losing a game.

It was a change in the pecking order. Lots of things need to change or even getting to the division Round or possibly the playoffs is going to be a thing of the past. PC and Js are smart people and m sure they understand but they need to assess every aspect of this team. Playing the blame game isn't going to cut it.

[NorthHawk]

I would submit that if the Offense started clicking consistently then everything would work itself out.
As it is, I suspect some on the defensive side are a little tired of having to carry the team week in and week out - and I don't blame them. They can't do it all.

I expect that this next year we will see a better OL. This one year under fire for the rookies will do wonders for their cohesion as a group. Fant may be like a high draft pick come April except that he will be more comfortable with what to expect in the NFL, but don't expect another Walter Jones or even Okung - maybe just a solid LT. I hope the OL coaches send them all home with assignments to improve their fundamentals over the course of the off season and maybe they should get together by themselves to work out and practice together.
The wild card in all this is the Right Tackle. There are often a few in FA that become available like when we got Breno. A road grader type with a mean streak could really help in the run game.
I would like to see more creative formations with our WRs. I can't remember the last time we saw a stacked formation near the end zone during the game. We saw Atlanta do it when Jones scored on a quick slant and it was an easy TD. Put Graham in the same spot behind Baldwin and one of those should be open or at least provide some type of mismatch.

With Hester retiring and Lockett questionable we will also need a good returner. We saw how much that helps with field position.

On Defense, I think the loss of Irvin is bigger than expected. There might be a couple of options in the first round to fill that role. It would provide some pressure we didn't see as much this year.
Another hope might be a solid CB opposite Sherman. Someone who can excel within this system like Maxwell did.

[RiverDog]

BOYS BOYS!!!!lets don't cannibalize one another.

I love HC like a brother, but someone needs to stick up to him every once in awhile. Anthony left because of him, obi's come under some merciless attacks as well. He got what he deserved.

Unfortunately my feelings of anxiety about this team were borne out yesterday. I felt that we'd beat the Lions then lose to the Falcons (didn't document it here so as not to be called a Negative Nancy), possibly even get routed by them, and that's exactly what happened. We have too many young players to blow it up completely, but we need some shake ups. We are not a SB caliber team, haven't been for two seasons now. Heck, as weak as the NFC West was this season, we still only managed 3 wins against divisional opponents. We had a golden opportunity to grab the #2 seed and let it slip away. The team has lost it's identity, no longer plays with a chip on their shoulders.

Having said that, there were some bright spots this year. Paul Richardson was awesome, made a couple of circus catches yesterday. Rawls did a fantastic job running the ball, enough so that I no longer have reservations about him. Jimmy Graham is a better blocker than he was two years ago. Shead has looked pretty good this season, and Bobby Wagner is one of if not the best MLB in the league. Avril had a Pro Bowl season. And most of all, Russell Wilson is fully healthy. And for all our troubles yesterday, we still could have made that a game had one or two plays gone our way.