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by **c_hawkbob** » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:23 pm

"My head" ... Definite concussion protocol for Ryan. Thank god for the upcoming mini bye.

by **Oly** » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:25 pm

jshawaii22 wrote:Ouch!!! that hit to Ryan had to hurt. What a great play. Why did we use it tonight with a 21 point lead?

My thought as well. Save that for a more critical situation!

But I feel bad for Ryan there. Going for glory, but he forgot that he can't carry and that he's slow enough someone is going to catch up. He had visions of a teeder there but got a bit carried away. Now he's probably in the concussion protocol for a few weeks and we're screwed.

by **c_hawkbob** » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:29 pm

that's probably a 'geen light' play, wherein the punter has a standing green light to bolt if he sees the middle of the field open up like the parting of the Red Sea that way.

by **c_hawkbob** » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:30 pm

gawd what an ugly throw.

by **Oly** » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:34 pm

Rawls is understandably frustrated. Just terrible run blocking.

And now Wilson making another stupid decision.

Man, this game is reverting back to the quality at the beginning.

by **mykc14** » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:35 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:gawd what an ugly throw.

Yep and he continues to look for kearse in those situations. I have to think he felt the Rams were offsides and he had a free play...

by **burrrton** » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:44 pm

Three words: One. And. Done.

by **Jjones84** » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:46 pm

burrrton wrote:Three words: One. And. Done.

I'm gonna hold you to those words.

by **mykc14** » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:01 pm

burrrton wrote:Three words: One. And. Done.

LOL...

by **mykc14** » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:08 pm

One thing we can all be happy about... we don't have to look at those jerseys again (at least not this season).

by **HumanCockroach** » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:37 pm

My thought as well. Save that for a more critical situation!

But I feel bad for Ryan there. Going for glory, but he forgot that he can't carry and that he's slow enough someone is going to catch up. He had visions of a teeder there but got a bit carried away. Now he's probably in the concussion protocol for a few weeks and we're screwed.

To be fair to Ryan, he does run a 4.45 forty. ( Or did when times earlier in his career)

Just isn't used to handling the ball.

According to the staff and players, it was a practiced play all week when the Rams gave a specific look, and was called by the sideline.

Who knows maybe they wanted to stuff it down the Rams throat a little bit. It isn't like the Rams haven't done similar with leads in their own territory to Seattle in the past to ice a game.

by **obiken** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:09 am

mykc14 wrote:One thing we can all be happy about... we don't have to look at those jerseys again (at least not this season).

They suck big donkey weenies, we need to trash them!

by **obiken** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:11 am

To be fair to Ryan, he does run a 4.45 forty. ( Or did when times earlier in his career)

Just isn't used to handling the ball.

According to the staff and players, it was a practiced play all week when the Rams gave a specific look, and was called by the sideline.

Who knows maybe they wanted to stuff it down the Rams throat a little bit. It isn't like the Rams haven't done similar with leads in their own territory to Seattle in the past to ice a game.

I agree but anytime you have a punter do anything but punt, you are betting on a sticky wicket as the British would say. The risk outweigh the benefits in that situation.

by **RiverDog** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:42 am

mykc14 wrote:One thing we can all be happy about... we don't have to look at those jerseys again (at least not this season).

Yea, no kidding. I hated watching that game. It looks more like a bowling team than it does a football team.

In all honesty, the fake punt was a bit bush league. We're up 3 TD's in the 4th quarter and we're faking a punt? Pete complained about that kind of stunt to Hairball when they coached against each other in college and now he's doing it against a first ever HC in his first pro game? Sorry, folks. But that was way below Pete's standards.

by **Hawk Sista** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:46 am

Bush league? Seriously? It's the NFL, not pee-wee football. They needed to win and win big to get the taste of the Packer loss out of their mouths. Eff the Rams and all their ST stunts over the years.

by **Jjones84** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:47 am

One good thing, marcell Reece looks outstanding. He has already been in position to make some big plays. They have missed on them, but they will start hitting. The key is, they are there. The play on the goal line was just a great defensive play. Russ has missed him on the rest. But on that play that Russ under threw him for the TD, I was surprised at how fast he looked. For a 31 year old big guy, he still has some wheels. I hope prosise is able to come back in a couple of weeks. With him in the lineup, this could be a good trip of running backs.

I think they will continue to improve going into the playoffs. They will have another slugfest next week, but what a great team to play for the last game. It may be a real chance for rawls to have a great game to build confidence going into the playoffs.

I didn't watch the game last night, had to work late. Well, caught the last quarter. But what I am curious about, are they running Reece from the tailback position at all? If they aren't, I think he deserves a look as the teams number two tailback until prosise gets back. He can play both fb and hb. If you can't tell, I have purchased a ticket for the Reece bandwagon, lol. I see great potential there for a playmaker, they just need to capitalize on it.

by **Jjones84** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:56 am

RiverDog wrote:Yea, no kidding. I hated watching that game. It looks more like a bowling team than it does a football team.

In all honesty, the fake punt was a bit bush league. We're up 3 TD's in the 4th quarter and we're faking a punt? Pete complained about that kind of stunt to Hairball when they coached against each other in college and now he's doing it against a first ever HC in his first pro game? Sorry, folks. But that was way below Pete's standards.

I completely disagree. Why not continue to control the clock if you have a chance. Get the game over with. This is the NFL. They are paid professionals. Nobodies handing out sportsmanship trophies. To hell with their feelings. If they can't stop it, that's their fault. There is nothing unsportsmanlike about trying to control the game til the end. By all means necessary.

I hate this attitude that you have to take your foot off the gas pedal because you are winning by a few TDs. Just to spare feelings? Yeah, that's how teams erase a late lead and get a come from behind win. I love the play, and the mindset behind it. Keep pounding til the last whistle blows.

Edit: forgot to bring up how Pete was trying to also build confidence and a mindset in the team. He wants them to have the bully mentality going into the Po. He wants to keep the intensity level up. Maybe after the game, they should have all met on the fifty yard line to hand out participation trophies to the loser of the game.

by **NorthHawk** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:06 am

It might also be something a playoff team will have to consider when preparing for Seattle.
Showing that you are capable of that play means time will be spent on countering it by the opponents.

by **Hawk Sista** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:09 am

We've come back from deficits in the 4th and while we weren't likely gonna let the Rams back in it, why not take a 1st down and run some more time off and give your O-line more time against a tough defensive front??

by **Hawktawk** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:32 am

I've seen too cute bevfool run a play with a gimpy Wilson catching a pass for a Td.
We saw just last night some double reverse throwback bomb that should have been picked
Now our punter is severely concussed because we fake a punt and nobody tells him to get on the ground.
Seattle has burned trick plays they could use with the season on the line in meaningless situation . Dumb.
Fire Bevell 2 years ago. Get your collective head out of your arse as decision makers.
Line up and beat people and quit pussyfooting around.

by **RiverDog** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:46 am

Hawk Sista wrote:Bush league? Seriously? It's the NFL, not pee-wee football. They needed to win and win big to get the taste of the Packer loss out of their mouths. Eff the Rams and all their ST stunts over the years.

Seriously.

I guarantee you that if the Packers had run a fake punt with 5 minutes to go in the game everyone in this forum along with our players and coaches would have their briefs/panties in a wad.

It was unnecessary. All it did was create more bad blood between a divisional opponent, expose our playbook to a future opponent, and expose a vital player that's not used to contact to injury. Whatcha all going to say if Ryan doesn't pass the concussion protocol and can't play next week and we lose a game on a botched punt and miss out on the 2 seed?

by **burrrton** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:24 am

Jjones84 wrote:I'm gonna hold you to those words.

You should, although it was borne of a few beers and the sinking feeling I'm getting watching this team. I don't present myself as a football Nostradamus.

by **NorthHawk** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:27 am

Hawktawk wrote:I've seen too cute bevfool run a play with a gimpy Wilson catching a pass for a Td.
We saw just last night some double reverse throwback bomb that should have been picked
Now our punter is severely concussed because we fake a punt and nobody tells him to get on the ground.
Seattle has burned trick plays they could use with the season on the line in meaningless situation . Dumb.
Fire Bevell 2 years ago. Get your collective head out of your arse as decision makers.
Line up and beat people and quit pussyfooting around.

I take it you are saying Bevell had something to do with the fake punt.
That's the ST coach and Pete making those decisions, but I agree with the sentiment.
As a side note, they want to out physical opponents with our OL, but they just aren't there yet.
Maybe with a full TC together, they can begin that process, but DL's like the Rams are tough for every team to play against.

by **RiverDog** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:47 am

Hawktawk wrote:I've seen too cute bevfool run a play with a gimpy Wilson catching a pass for a Td.
We saw just last night some double reverse throwback bomb that should have been picked
Now our punter is severely concussed because we fake a punt and nobody tells him to get on the ground.
Seattle has burned trick plays they could use with the season on the line in meaningless situation . Dumb.
Fire Bevell 2 years ago. Get your collective head out of your arse as decision makers.
Line up and beat people and quit pussyfooting around.

I'm not nearly as displeased with Bevell's performance as a lot of my fellow 12's are. Hawktalk isn't alone.

But last night I thought he did a fantastic job squeezing 24 points out of this inept offense against a team that we historically have had trouble scoring points against. He's been tasked with mitigating the effects of this vastly improved offensive line, which got thrown around like a bunch of rag dolls last night.

And I might add that we were damn lucky that the Rams phucked up two sure TD's and failed to execute on a fake punt. Had those plays gone differently, we could have been having a whole lot different discussion in this thread.

by **burrrton** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:50 am

I hate this attitude that you have to take your foot off the gas pedal because you are winning by a few TDs. Just to spare feelings?

My problem with it isn't someone's feels- it's giving away a play we had up our sleeve that could have benefited us sometime in the future when we actually needed it.

[edit]

It was unnecessary. All it did was create more bad blood between a divisional opponent, expose our playbook to a future opponent, and expose a vital player that's not used to contact to injury.

Except for the bad blood part, over which I don't personally lose sleep, this.

by **burrrton** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:56 am

And I might add that we were damn lucky that the Rams phucked up two sure TD's and failed to execute on a fake punt. Had those plays gone differently, we could have been having a whole lot different discussion in this thread.

I thought the same thing- in the NFL the final score is the final score, but this game was a lot more dicey than the score indicates.

by **RiverDog** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:58 am

c_hawkbob wrote:that's probably a 'geen light' play, wherein the punter has a standing green light to bolt if he sees the middle of the field open up like the parting of the Red Sea that way.

If that was the case, then the Hawks need to re-evaluate their decision making and tell anyone with that kind of authority that it's rescinded in situations like the one last night. We were up 3 TD's with 5 minutes to go in the game. That should demand that we not do anything cute that has the potential of letting the Rams get back in the game, which that play obviously had the potential of doing.

Damn Jon Ryan reminded me of Garo Yepremian. Any old geezers like me remember how that play turned out?

by **Jjones84** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:22 am

RiverDog wrote:Seriously.

I guarantee you that if the Packers had run a fake punt with 5 minutes to go in the game everyone in this forum along with our players and coaches would have their briefs/panties in a wad.

It was unnecessary. All it did was create more bad blood between a divisional opponent, expose our playbook to a future opponent, and expose a vital player that's not used to contact to injury. Whatcha all going to say if Ryan doesn't pass the concussion protocol and can't play next week and we lose a game on a botched punt and miss out on the 2 seed?

Seriously, I wouldn't have a problem with it. I fundamentally do not believe in letting up. If anything, I would be pissed they weren't able to stop it. But seeing how im not the one playing or coaching, I really don't have any right to be pissed off at all.

The packers would have been foolish to let up against the Seahawks. If they thought they had a chance to get a first and kill more time off the clock, and passed up to not hurt anyone's feelings, they would be stupid. Especially against this team.

Pete has laid his philosophy out multiple times. They treat every team, every situation the same way. With grit, toughness, intensity and preperation, among many other things. They compete for the entire game, win or lose. They also play without fear. He got concussed, but very well could have not.

What I can't figure out is, why as a fan you would want your team letting up. Or especially why you would want your team worried about pro players or their fans feelings. They are warriors on the grid iron. There is no place for "feelings" in the football world.

by **Jjones84** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:28 am

Quote. "My problem with it isn't someone's feels- it's giving away a play we had up our sleeve that could have benefited us sometime in the future when we actually needed it."

A fake punt isnt a secret play. Everyone has it, everyone practices to stop it. What makes it a surprise is when you use it. It isn't something that you use once and throw away.

by **Jjones84** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:39 am

burrrton wrote:
You should, although it was borne of a few beers and the sinking feeling I'm getting watching this team. I don't present myself as a football Nostradamus.

Lol. It happens. I'm sure we both want the same outcome. Go Hawks. Glad you picked up it was meant as a light hearted challenge. At the end of the day as fans, we are all in this together. Let's just collectively hope we win out, and the Lions lose one. We get the first round bye, hfa for a game, then go from there. I like the Hawks chances for one game against the cowblo, no matter the venue.

Edit:. Was meant to say "cowblos," not "cowblo."

by **RiverDog** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:57 am

Jjones84 wrote:A fake punt isnt a secret play. Everyone has it, everyone practices to stop it. What makes it a surprise is when you use it. It isn't something that you use once and throw away.

Neither is a flea flicker. Every team has one of those, too. It's not the fact that we have a fake punt in our playbook, it's that we've shown that we'll use it.

What we've done is that we've sent up a warning flag. You can bet that the special teams coaches from every opponent for the rest of the season will be showing that play to their punt return team and using it to remind their players that someone has to account for the punter, especially if it's like Cbob said, that the punter has a green light if he sees the Red Sea part. If they know Ryan has a green light, then they are more likely to spend extra attention making sure that they have a spy that's keeping an eye on him. I'd rather they not have shown their hand in a game that's already been decided.

by **c_hawkbob** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:16 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:that's probably a 'geen light' play, wherein the punter has a standing green light to bolt if he sees the middle of the field open up like the parting of the Red Sea that way.

RiverDog wrote:If that was the case, then the Hawks need to re-evaluate their decision making and tell anyone with that kind of authority that it's rescinded in situations like the one last night. We were up 3 TD's with 5 minutes to go in the game. That should demand that we not do anything cute that has the potential of letting the Rams get back in the game, which that play obviously had the potential of doing.

Damn Jon Ryan reminded me of Garo Yepremian. Any old geezers like me remember how that play turned out?

Completely disagree. If the play 's there the play is there and you take the opportunity. That's why you practice it. And three TD's is not an insurmountable lead, you don't stop playing football the way you built the lead because you have the lead ... aren't you one of them always complaining about going into a prevent defense with a late lead?

And Garo's empty hand play was a broken play, he was never intended to throw a pass!

Ryan did put me in mind of that play though, was worried about him physically but couldn't help laughing at it ... not exactly a smooth operator is he? Most awkward ball move from one hand to the other ever.

by **burrrton** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:00 pm

Jjones84 wrote:Quote. "My problem with it isn't someone's feels- it's giving away a play we had up our sleeve that could have benefited us sometime in the future when we actually needed it."

A fake punt isnt a secret play. Everyone has it, everyone practices to stop it. What makes it a surprise is when you use it. It isn't something that you use once and throw away.

I think Pete said it's something they run based on what they see- now teams know at least one more formation for which we will fake punt.

I'm not saying it's now some huge advantage other teams gained on us, nor that it can never be used again- I just think it's clear we removed (or at least dulled) an arrow in our quiver.

by **burrrton** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:05 pm

If the play 's there the play is there and you take the opportunity.

It's a play that depends on surprise, though- it's not going to be surprising anyone for a while now, so it's effectively removed from our arsenal, and for what? Another first down late in a blowout.

I'm not saying it was idiotic to do it- I just think it would have been nicer to have kept that one in our back pocket until we're in a game where we *need* that 1st-down.

by **RiverDog** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:21 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:Completely disagree. If the play 's there the play is there and you take the opportunity. That's why you practice it. And three TD's is not an insurmountable lead, you don't stop playing football the way you built the lead because you have the lead ... aren't you one of them always complaining about going into a prevent defense with a late lead?

And Garo's empty hand play was a broken play, he was never intended to throw a pass!

Ryan did put me in mind of that play though, was worried about him physically but couldn't help laughing at it ... not exactly a smooth operator is he? Most awkward ball move from one hand to the other ever.

3 TD's with 5:22 remaining isn't insurmountable? Then what would you estimate the odds are of losing a game when you're up by that amount with that little time remaining? Are there any examples you can think of?

Even if I do accept your premise that a 3 TD lead with 5 minutes to go isn't insurmountable, the only way that a team can get back into a game like that is if their opponent has at least one really bonehead mistake that lets a team back into the game, and a fake punt certainly has the capacity of doing that as was clearly the case when Ryan pulled a Dave Krieg and started to fumble without anyone around him. Suppose he did fumble and it was picked up and returned for a TD? That's what made the play similar to Garo's. You have a specialist trying to ad lib (you yourself said it wasn't a designed play) and do something in a game that's virtually already been decided.

What it boils down to is risk/reward. Is the risk associated with allowing a player that is extremely difficult to replace do something that's out of his comfort zone and run the ball in the open field worth the reward, which was about as insignificant as it comes. Kickers and punters are more prone to injury under those circumstances than other players are. Remember when Hauschka hurt himself making a tackle on a kickoff and how that play nearly cost us big time?

We may not have seen the final consequences of this play, either. Ryan is in concussion protocol, and if he can't play against Arizona, it has a very real chance of affecting our chances of going back to the SB. Quite frankly, I don't understand why an intelligent fan like yourself is defending the play.

by **burrrton** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:29 pm

With as rung as his bell obviously was, I think the chances of him passing concussion protocol before next week are *zero*, or maybe slightly better than that due to the extra days between now and then.

by **RiverDog** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:34 pm

burrrton wrote:With as rung as his bell obviously was, I think the chances of him passing concussion protocol before next week are *zero*, or maybe slightly better than that due to the extra days between now and then.

Yea, and wouldn't that be lovely? I'd be anxious to hear of anyone would change their opinion on that fake punt if Ryan is ruled out against Arizona, we give up a TD on a botched punt and lose to the Cards by 3, and the Lions go 2-1 down the stretch. All of that is much, much more likely than losing a game when you're up by 3 TD's with 5:22 against an offense ranked DFL.

by **NorthHawk** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:53 pm

The Lions have Stafford with a gimpy throwing hand and they play the Giants, Cowboys, and Packers.
They could win 2 of 3, but the chances are a little slim. I would think they win 1 of the 3.

In any event, the risk/reward was questionable.
Any punters coming in for a tryout?

by **Hawktawk** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:07 pm

PC said Ryan was doing well in his report this morning.He does have 11 days.

Apparently our next opponent had no less a leader than Fitz express great displeasure at the release of his "brother" Floyd.
It is reported the feeling is mutual throughout the locker room.

Old lovable Gramps Arians may have lost the team over this.
Something tells me Az isn't going to come up here with much fire in their belly.
Maybe we wont need to punt :lol:

Boy did the pundits mess up on a few teams this year.

by **RiverDog** » Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:12 pm

NorthHawk wrote:The Lions have Stafford with a gimpy throwing hand and they play the Giants, Cowboys, and Packers.
They could win 2 of 3, but the chances are a little slim. I would think they win 1 of the 3.

In any event, the risk/reward was questionable.
Any punters coming in for a tryout?

Questionable? You have a very broad definition of the term, my friend!

There's no better supporting evidence of my argument about the wisdom of that play than the results: Ryan awkwardly bobbles the ball without so much as a finger being laid on him and our he gets injured on the play, badly enough that it may keep him out of the next game.

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