MJ

[Eaglehawk]

Trying not to think too much about the game and a bit bored, is everyone and their mother smoking weed in Seattle these days since its now legal? Driving to work, walking to the game? AT THE GAME? I remember walking to the game and getting the occasional whiff. But nothing more than that.

Has anyone in Washington State noticed anything different from before?

Just curious.

[RiverDog]

Trying not to think too much about the game and a bit bored, is everyone and their mother smoking weed in Seattle these days since its now legal? Driving to work, walking to the game? AT THE GAME? I remember walking to the game and getting the occasional whiff. But nothing more than that.

Has anyone in Washington State noticed anything different from before?

Just curious.

My understanding of the legislation is that it's still illegal to smoke it in public, much like drinking alcohol in public is barred, so it's doubtful anyone will see any outward changes in public behavior. The state attorney general gave an opinion that local governments are free to ban the sale of it within their jurisdiction, and a number of them, including Pierce County, already have. Banks are refusing to accept money from revenue generated by the sale of marijuana. The law is poorly written, and likely will have to go back to court a few times to clarify it. One thing is clear: The state is not going to erase budget deficits due to huge increases in tax revenue that some of the proponents of this legislation predicted.

[Eaglehawk]

Interesting stuff. Haven't kept up with this. So I guess everyone is, as that Steve MIller Band song goes, a "midnght toker".

I guess for users, its better than nothing.

Here for stuff like that, back in the day, they'd conduct a kangaroo trial, shoot me with a bullet to the back of the head, then charge my family for the price of the bullet.

[FolkCrusader]

In certain areas of downtown you will encounter the smell and haze of marijuana more than others. Although the law does not allow for public use, local law enforcement has made any sort of enforcement of old or new laws lowest priority. Which essentially means to them they don't enforce anything. This is how it is in the city, the city has dense population, young population. Naturally the city will tend to have different behaviors than in the suburbs.

The situation in Washington will not greatly change until this June or later. The state has been processing applications for growers, processors, and retailers. The priority was given to growers since the law required that they essentially grow the new retail crop from seed. This is not typical as growers usually propagate their crop from clones of healthy plants. Seeds typically being used for hybridization. The state is allowing only a certain amount of square feet of growing space. As far as I know the maximum amount of growing space has more than been applied for. From this the total legal crop can be calculated. This crop is estimated by most to fall far short of the state wide demand.

The big change for most of us will be seeing marijuana in retail storefronts. Current medical marijuana users have dispensaries but without a card you can't go in and check it out.. In June we start to see dedicated storefronts around the state. As RD points out some municipalities and counties have chosen to pass ordinances disallowing for storefronts in their jurisdictions. It's likely such issues will be quickly resolved when revenue from the state is cut off due to failure to observe state law. The State LCB has already said they will not take in to account local ordinances when awarding licenses to applicants. I'm not sure how a city hopes to enforce such a rule. If they charge a retailer with federal law the feds have already said they will not process it. If they charge them with in state court they get thrown out of court. I guess they plan to overwhelm their municipal courts with actions that inevitably have to be tried in state court.

As far as revenue goes, current projections in Colorado are in the $70 million range for the first year. Washington predictions have ranged from $200 - $500 million. Many have pointed out that the legal system is probably still smaller than the black market system and the medical system. If the system works and pot comes out for sale in the $200 an ounce range it will likely be very successful. If the system drives the price up beyond that of the black market or medical systems then the future is much murkier.

[c_hawkbob]

This being off topic and all, shouldn't it be in the off topic forum?

[RiverDog]

In certain areas of downtown you will encounter the smell and haze of marijuana more than others. Although the law does not allow for public use, local law enforcement has made any sort of enforcement of old or new laws lowest priority. Which essentially means to them they don't enforce anything. This is how it is in the city, the city has dense population, young population. Naturally the city will tend to have different behaviors than in the suburbs.

The situation in Washington will not greatly change until this June or later. The state has been processing applications for growers, processors, and retailers. The priority was given to growers since the law required that they essentially grow the new retail crop from seed. This is not typical as growers usually propagate their crop from clones of healthy plants. Seeds typically being used for hybridization. The state is allowing only a certain amount of square feet of growing space. As far as I know the maximum amount of growing space has more than been applied for. From this the total legal crop can be calculated. This crop is estimated by most to fall far short of the state wide demand.

The big change for most of us will be seeing marijuana in retail storefronts. Current medical marijuana users have dispensaries but without a card you can't go in and check it out.. In June we start to see dedicated storefronts around the state. As RD points out some municipalities and counties have chosen to pass ordinances disallowing for storefronts in their jurisdictions. It's likely such issues will be quickly resolved when revenue from the state is cut off due to failure to observe state law. The State LCB has already said they will not take in to account local ordinances when awarding licenses to applicants. I'm not sure how a city hopes to enforce such a rule. If they charge a retailer with federal law the feds have already said they will not process it. If they charge them with in state court they get thrown out of court. I guess they plan to overwhelm their municipal courts with actions that inevitably have to be tried in state court.

As far as revenue goes, current projections in Colorado are in the $70 million range for the first year. Washington predictions have ranged from $200 - $500 million. Many have pointed out that the legal system is probably still smaller than the black market system and the medical system. If the system works and pot comes out for sale in the $200 an ounce range it will likely be very successful. If the system drives the price up beyond that of the black market or medical systems then the future is much murkier.

$200-500 million in tax revenue from marijuana is absurdly high, and one of my biggest complaints about the arguments used by proponents of the law. WA state only collected a little over $300M last year in tax revenue on alcohol sales. Do they really think that tax revenue from weed will be anywhere near that of what alcohol sales are? Do they think the black market will suddenly disappear because of this law? Hell no, the black market will be competing with legal businesses, and if the state jacks up the price by taxing it like they tax alcohol and tobacco, they'll price themselves out of the market, and the market for pot isn't a tenth of what it is for alcohol.

Personally, I'm for legalization, but I'd rather California had gone first. Let them figure out how to manage it.

[Seahawks4Ever]

I heard on the news (KIRO) a couple of days ago that people will be able to use their Food Stamp cards to buy pot. That is just WRONG! Can't buy pop, candy, or alcohol with a Food Stamp card but pot??? I voted against this law and I am in favor of repealing it.

A year after declaring the state should get out of the business of selling hard liquor the call goes out that the state should be in the pot selling business, can you say hypocrisy???

Oh, and after the medical MJ people do most of the heavy lifting leading to legalization they get screwed and treated the same as recreational users. BOGUS!

I say repeal and start over. Did you get all of that Barry?

[FolkCrusader]

In certain areas of downtown you will encounter the smell and haze of marijuana more than others. Although the law does not allow for public use, local law enforcement has made any sort of enforcement of old or new laws lowest priority. Which essentially means to them they don't enforce anything. This is how it is in the city, the city has dense population, young population. Naturally the city will tend to have different behaviors than in the suburbs.

The situation in Washington will not greatly change until this June or later. The state has been processing applications for growers, processors, and retailers. The priority was given to growers since the law required that they essentially grow the new retail crop from seed. This is not typical as growers usually propagate their crop from clones of healthy plants. Seeds typically being used for hybridization. The state is allowing only a certain amount of square feet of growing space. As far as I know the maximum amount of growing space has more than been applied for. From this the total legal crop can be calculated. This crop is estimated by most to fall far short of the state wide demand.

The big change for most of us will be seeing marijuana in retail storefronts. Current medical marijuana users have dispensaries but without a card you can't go in and check it out.. In June we start to see dedicated storefronts around the state. As RD points out some municipalities and counties have chosen to pass ordinances disallowing for storefronts in their jurisdictions. It's likely such issues will be quickly resolved when revenue from the state is cut off due to failure to observe state law. The State LCB has already said they will not take in to account local ordinances when awarding licenses to applicants. I'm not sure how a city hopes to enforce such a rule. If they charge a retailer with federal law the feds have already said they will not process it. If they charge them with in state court they get thrown out of court. I guess they plan to overwhelm their municipal courts with actions that inevitably have to be tried in state court.

As far as revenue goes, current projections in Colorado are in the $70 million range for the first year. Washington predictions have ranged from $200 - $500 million. Many have pointed out that the legal system is probably still smaller than the black market system and the medical system. If the system works and pot comes out for sale in the $200 an ounce range it will likely be very successful. If the system drives the price up beyond that of the black market or medical systems then the future is much murkier.

$200-500 million in tax revenue from marijuana is absurdly high, and one of my biggest complaints about the arguments used by proponents of the law. WA state only collected a little over $300M last year in tax revenue on alcohol sales. Do they really think that tax revenue from weed will be anywhere near that of what alcohol sales are? Do they think the black market will suddenly disappear because of this law? Hell no, the black market will be competing with legal businesses, and if the state jacks up the price by taxing it like they tax alcohol and tobacco, they'll price themselves out of the market, and the market for pot isn't a tenth of what it is for alcohol.

Personally, I'm for legalization, but I'd rather California had gone first. Let them figure out how to manage it.

I agree that that revenue number seems difficult, but they hired an outside consultant to audit the revenue forecast and they are the ones that came up with $200 million number. They don't have a dog in the fight so I would think that's going to be pretty close. A big part of that forecast is to collect taxes that are currently going unpaid from the medical side. Also, revenue from Alcohol sales was projected at $425 million for 2013.

[RiverDog]

I think that $425M 'projection' was based on the expectation that the new law allowing the sale of hard liquor in stores would significantly increase sales, and from what I understand, that hasn't materialized like they expected. The last real number was slightly over $300M.

But that's beside the point. My point is that it's ludicrous to expect that marijuana revenue, with an alternate market competing with the legal one, will come anywhere close to alcohol sales, of which nearly 100% of consumption is from legal sales.

Do you think that the market for marijuana will come anywhere near that of alcohol? I'd be surprised if it exceeded 10% of that of alcohol. It's not that popular of a drug, less popular than tobacco.

[Eaglehawk]

I put it here Bob because it wasn't OT OT but OT football related and Hawks related. I changed the title of the thread. Its now just MJ.
Since it relates to game day and what people observe I will leave title at MJ.

Thanks BOB. Ya smart alec.

[FolkCrusader]

I think that $425M 'projection' was based on the expectation that the new law allowing the sale of hard liquor in stores would significantly increase sales, and from what I understand, that hasn't materialized like they expected. The last real number was slightly over $300M.

But that's beside the point. My point is that it's ludicrous to expect that marijuana revenue, with an alternate market competing with the legal one, will come anywhere close to alcohol sales, of which nearly 100% of consumption is from legal sales.

Do you think that the market for marijuana will come anywhere near that of alcohol? I'd be surprised if it exceeded 10% of that of alcohol. It's not that popular of a drug, less popular than tobacco.

The State has already collected $392 million in alcohol revenue. The expectation is that $425 million will be on the low end by the end of the fiscal year in June.

The total amount of pot sales in Washington is estimated at about $1 billion. We'll know much better about a year from now if that figure was correct and if so, what percentage of that went legal and what did not. Either way we are talking about a potential for revenue at least half of what alcohol provides, if not more. That is not an insignificant sum of money.

[RiverDog]

I put it here Bob because it wasn't OT OT but OT football related and Hawks related. I changed the title of the thread. Its now just MJ.
Since it relates to game day and what people observe I will leave title at MJ.

Thanks BOB. Ya smart alec.

Now that the SB is going to be between Seattle (Washington) and Denver (Colorado), the only two states that approved pot initiatives, this thread seems pretty appropriate.

[RiverDog]

I think that $425M 'projection' was based on the expectation that the new law allowing the sale of hard liquor in stores would significantly increase sales, and from what I understand, that hasn't materialized like they expected. The last real number was slightly over $300M.

But that's beside the point. My point is that it's ludicrous to expect that marijuana revenue, with an alternate market competing with the legal one, will come anywhere close to alcohol sales, of which nearly 100% of consumption is from legal sales.

Do you think that the market for marijuana will come anywhere near that of alcohol? I'd be surprised if it exceeded 10% of that of alcohol. It's not that popular of a drug, less popular than tobacco.

The State has already collected $392 million in alcohol revenue. The expectation is that $425 million will be on the low end by the end of the fiscal year in June.

The total amount of pot sales in Washington is estimated at about $1 billion. We'll know much better about a year from now if that figure was correct and if so, what percentage of that went legal and what did not. Either way we are talking about a potential for revenue at least half of what alcohol provides, if not more. That is not an insignificant sum of money.

Yea, we'll see. I'm still very dubious about these estimates of how much tax revenue can be collected off of pot sales. They won't be able to smoke it in indoor areas as they're not going to let pot smokers do what cigarette smokers can't, so how are they going to be able to consume it in public places like bars and restaurants? And unlike cigarette smoking, you can't be under the influence of pot while you're operating a moving vehicle. And I can guarantee you that employers won't allow them to smoke it on their premises. That leaves private residences and a few designated outdoor smoking areas as the only places where one can legally light up. I just don't see how it's going to match in tax revenue what alcohol does.

[mykc14]

I was at the game yesterday and I smelled it walking towards the stadium and back to the car after the game (had to park far away because prices were so high). Sat in the Hawks nest and thee or four times you could smell it, although it looked like it was just one guy who was sitting in the row behind me but about 10 people over.