Mebane and Sweezy, gone.

[HumanCockroach]

The Russell Okung deal is actually structured as a one-year, $5m deal with a team option for the final four years at $12m per year. ( Mike Garafolo @MikeGarafolo 3m ago )
-- if you can't pro rate the $5M for 2016 for Okung- and he hit incentives- SEA could not match because SEA does not have $13M in 2016
( DAVIS HSU @DavisHsuSeattle 3m ago )

Interesting tidbit...

[jshawaii22]

So it was another 'poison pill' contract written to keep us from matching? Ha, they can have him then.

I'd rather see JS trade up to draft a LT. Just outside a top-ten. Go ahead and trade one first, second and one of the 3rd round picks. ND's Stanley?

[NorthHawk]

I don't know what the incentives are, but if they include playing a full year, it probably won't be met as he hasn't played a full year, yet.
One thing I read lately is Clady has missed more games than Okung the last 2 years, so they are replacing one fragile LT with another.

What will they do?
A guess would be to move Gilliam to LT as he is pretty quick (Britt played LT in College so he might fit in a pinch or could surprise us).
Britt or maybe Webb might play RT, or they could select in the draft a Tackle who could play on the right or compete for LT if he's good enough.
We also need help up the middle, so maybe 2 OL early in the draft.

[obiken]

I give up on John and Pete in even using the Draft to improve the OL. I think Chuck Powell of KJR, is correct, they don't value Offensive Lineman as a commodity. I think SH, is correct, they are willing to play Russian Roulette, with Russell Wilson. Its all Fun and Games until he ends up like Jim Zorn. Gary "Big hands" Johnston, put his career on the scrap heap, with one good hit. They just keep giving lemons to Cable to make lemonade out of. I think this is year we pay. Hope I am wrong. All Post Season, we kept saying the OL was THE #1 priority this year, the Seattle Time reiterated, and every Sports Talks show in the NW, has echoed them. Now there is nothing left in FA and we don't have the money to buy even IF there was. So unless we get JT to make a pillar out of, we got NO one who is NFL quality IMHO, to do the job. RW better have a Rabbits foot, horseshoe, and a 4 leaf clover, on top of everything else, he is going to need it.

[HumanCockroach]

Uggh. You said the same thing last year, and the year before. The same was said about Carpenter, Sweezy, Giacomini and 4 years ago about Unger. Your like a broken clock. Doom and gloom always and forever. Even IF you were right ( huge if) what of it? Last I checked, this philosophy has worked BETTER than any philosophy the Seahawks have used in history, AND I might add is one several teams have indeed employed in runs to the SB, all of which did so with LESS mobile QBs than Seattle currently employs.

[obiken]

Ok, this year isn't gloom its Fear Human. We lost one All Pro after another on the line, and IF you remember we didn't win the Division this year. Nor did we defend the NFC Title. Hope your right Human I really do.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

For now, the coach speak is that Gilliam is moving to LT. I am reminded of the scenario when Big Walt retired and they moved Locklear to LT. We all saw how well that worked out, but Locklear was an average RT and very possibly was not the athlete Gilliam is. He might have the chops to be an LT, but I would still expect there to be growing pains when retooling like this.

As much as I'd like to see some love from the draft, there are very few good LT prospects, and I don't think Schneider will sell the farm to get one of them. FA prospects are all gone as well, so, barring a trade for Joe Thomas, I think we won't see a big difference from what we already have.

http://espn.go.com/blog/seattle-seahawk ... good-shape

[NorthHawk]

Pete might just be blowing smoke before the draft. He said earlier that the OL needs attention, so while losing a former Pro Bowl LT and a starting Guard, and delivering 2 signings of players who haven't achieved much in their careers doesn't look like much improvement.

The OL needs players that will push the starters - more competition if you will and especially so in the middle of the line.
Bailey was a big disappointment last year, and he's gone and they need someone who can actually play Guard or Center to compete with Glowinski, Britt, and Lewis.
Pericak wasn't better than Nowak, and Sokoli wasn't ready (who knows if he ever will be), so we need someone who can eventually replace Lewis and can do so competently if Lewis is dinged up.

We saw the weakness up the middle last year and teams know that, so that has to be addressed.
Stopping Wilson is simple - push up the middle and flush him to one of the DE's for the sack or to chase. Carolina and the Rams did it effectively with their DT's, others will probably try blitzing up the middle if they don't have the DT's to create pressure, but if one of the Guards isn't up to it, we will be in the same trouble as early last year.

I hope they select a Center, or Guard that can transition to Center within the first 3 rounds. There are some good players that have experience playing Offense in the first 3 rounds, so even if they don't go OT, where we need quality competition too, we might be able to solidify the interior of the OL.
Keep in mind these "projects" only get one practice a day in TC and limited contact the rest of the year so the sooner you can get them on the field, the sooner you can take advantage of their first contract savings (relative to their 2nd contracts) before letting them go in FA.

[HumanCockroach]

Ok, this year isn't gloom its Fear Human. We lost one All Pro after another on the line, and IF you remember we didn't win the Division this year. Nor did we defend the NFC Title. Hope your right Human I really do.

What all pro did we lose? There hasn't been one on that line in Carroll's time in Seattle that they have "lost". They traded one ( the ONLY one, Unger for Graham), other than that, not a one. You crack me up, they aren't NFL caliber when they are here, but after they leave they're "All Pros". ROTFLMFAO. Whatever, you're comfortable in your bubble, enjoy it, if fear and pessimism is your thing, relish it.

[obiken]

Ok, Human sorry If I considered Okung an All-Pro caliber. Hope your right. I really do.

Your forgetting that I am not the lone "Chicken little" on this. EVERY expert I have seen, has raised serious concerns about the OL. IF they seriously address the OL in the draft, I am going to have serious allies.

[HumanCockroach]

The same "experts" that said the same before Seattle's second straight SB appearance? The same experts that claimed Wilson a wasted pick? To short? A game manager? The same experts that picked Carolina tho finish 5-11 last year and Denver to flame out in the WC round? The same experts that called Seattle's receiving core pedestrian just two seasons ago? The same experts that continue to insist Luck not Wilson have had a better career so far? The same experts that claimed Seattle's defenses demise for the last three seasons? The same experts that said Wilson wasn't "black" enough, and the team had NO shot at the playoffs, much less that second SB? The same experts that claimed Seattle didn't have a chance at beating the "best offense in history" in the first SB? Oh no, what ever shall we do? Your right, we should simply forfeit the next 16 games and all games until we can draft 5 Walter Jones caliber players to replace the derth of NFL talent on the Seahawks.... LMAO. You do realize that 3/5 of the starting offensive line is returning right? 3/5 of a top ten offensive line from week 9 through the divisional round, and the two that were lost were two that many here and across Seattle land didn't want here ANYWAY. Okung because of his injuries ( which he actually happens to be dealing with right now) and Sweezy who I've seen described on this board multiple times as "below NFL level" or horrid ( despite him signing a HUGE contract, same as Carpenter the year before, and Giacomini the year before that).

The truth is. YOU weren't "happy" with the line for the last three years ( you and many others) you wanted change, well you got it. Now you want to moan about that change, and everyone's suppose to go along with it? Nah. I don't fret, until there's a REASON to fret, and 3 months until the season starts there is zero reason to do so. Honestly even IF nothing changes between now and then there is still no reason to fret, the ONLY reason to fret is if whomever Seattle lines up doesn't get the job done, and as of right now, no one, not you, me or the "experts" ( who by the way are "wrong" more often than even casual football fans, but get PAID to make noise and outlandish claims) know whether or not they can get the job done or not.

[RiverDog]

I'm with obi on this one. The state of the OL is giving me jitters. It was an undeniable weakness last season and was primarily responsible for the slow start that led to our losing the division and causing our W/L to slip to the worst record since 2011 and a poor showing in the playoffs. So far this offseason, we have done very little if anything to address that weakness.

Glownowski did a good job in limited action last season and hopefully can replace Sweezy, but I'm worried that the only plan we have for replacing Okung will be to move Gilliam over to LT and to hope someone and just holler "next man up!" and wait for someone to materialize to fill the RT slot. It's eerily similar to the situation we were in last season when we traded Unger without a viable replacement to take his place.

[obiken]

Thanks River. Human, YOUR RIGHT, I wasn't happy with the OL when we won the SB, because it was out biggest weakness. Its gotten continually, worse. As the Zen Master would say we'll see. Can RW run for his life, can he get the ball out quick enough, can the Running game pick up with zone blocking? Stay tuned to as the QB Legs churn!

[HumanCockroach]

I'll wait the 6 months before working myself in a lather over something that many of you were ASKING for for the past year. The "replacement" plan for a player that tended to miss a third to a half of a season may very well be an improvement, the replacement plan for a Guard only a handful of us felt was good and improving may very well be better, I'll just go ahead and SEE them play before p#ssing my pants over it.

Just the way I work. Don't go looking for things to worry about before I need to worry about them, especially when I haven't a clue whether I ever will need to worry about them. Gilliam certainly is FAR more athletic than Okung, and so far more DURABLE, I'll go ahead and wait and see if he is a problem there, before saying he's one. Same goes for whomever Sweezy's replacement ends up being.

The funny thing is, is all these "glaring" weaknesses are STARTING on other teams, guys that many of you professed below NFL level, guys you couldn't run out of town fast enough ( Sweezy, Carpenter, Giacomini, Bailey, Bowie, etc) were ALL average to ABOVE average, and many of you wanted no part of them, didn't want to pay them, thought they were substandard. Truth is, many of you make it seem that only the $$$$$ attached to the player makes them any good. Which is absurd. No matter what player is brought in, either they are going to be not "good" enough ( because they either weren't a high draft pick, or overpriced FA) or after about a season, they'll be underperforming or overpaid. There will NEVER be a "happy" majority in regards to line play in Seattle. You expect two Jones on the ends, two Hutches at guards and Unger or some other all pro manning center...... Guess what? It's not going to happen, get over it already.

When Jones was called a "once in a generation tackle" it meant you were going to see it ONCE. When Hutch was racking up all Pros and was considered BETTER than Jones, it wasn't a "common" thing, it's over. Get USED to REAL players, in the now.

[c_hawkbob]

You're delusional if you're actually trying to convince yourself Gilliam is an upgrade over Okung, at least in the near term. Sweezey may not have left the hole Okung did but make no mistake we have a glaring hole at LT right now.

I'm with Obi too, with the caveat that there is still plenty of offseason to go for Pete and John to get something done.

[HumanCockroach]

Not trying to convince myself of anything. Haven't seen the guy play left tackle. Have you? I'm not busy convincing myself one way or the other. As for being an "upgrade" I never said he would or wouldn't be, I said he was more athletic ( which he is) and more durable ( which he has been). Those two things are simply the truth. No "convincing" necessary, whether he flounders or excels remains to be seen. This pretending like Okung had excelled last season though obviously involves some convincing.

I judge players on how they perform, not on how I think they might. The only question that really needs to be asked is if Gilliam is an "upgrade" over Bailey, not Okung, because odds are that someone was going to start in place of Okung for a third to a half of the season ( last year that would be Bailey) or Britt. Will he perform better? I don't know, and neither does anyone on this board, INCLUDING you Bob. I'm not making lemonade in my drawers over something that might or might NOT be a problem.

[monkey]

You're delusional if you're actually trying to convince yourself Gilliam is an upgrade over Okung, at least in the near term.

I absolutely think that the likelihood of getting 16 games out of our LT for the first time in six flipping years, is in fact, an upgrade over Okung, who when he played was pretty good, in spite of all the boneheaded penalties, but who was ALWAYS hurt.
Gilliam will have some growing pains I am sure, but his athleticism ought to translate well to LT, which is in fact what he was being groomed for since day one.
So, am I delusional?

In the end, while I don't necessarily see him as becoming a more TALENTED LT than Okung was, I do see him becoming a better run blocker, and he's already ahead of Okung in the important stat of complete seasons played.

[RiverDog]

I absolutely think that the likelihood of getting 16 games out of our LT for the first time in six flipping years, is in fact, an upgrade over Okung, who when he played was pretty good, in spite of all the boneheaded penalties, but who was ALWAYS hurt.
Gilliam will have some growing pains I am sure, but his athleticism ought to translate well to LT, which is in fact what he was being groomed for since day one.
So, am I delusional?

In the end, while I don't necessarily see him as becoming a more TALENTED LT than Okung was, I do see him becoming a better run blocker, and he's already ahead of Okung in the important stat of complete seasons played.

I'm reminded of the comments 30 years or so ago of a new head football coach when he took over at Oregon State after he was told that he had 19 returning starters and 30 some returning lettermen. His comment was "that's not very reassuring when your team went 0-11", the point being that having all those returning starters back doesn't mean a lot if they aren't worth a damn.

My point is that although Okung was hurt a lot and not worth being paid in the top tier of offensive tackles, he was still a better than average LT when he did play, and I'll take 10 or 12 games of above average play out of Okung over 16 games of sub par performance out of his replacement. There's more to playing the position than merely suiting up every Sunday.

I'm not going to go so far as call you guys delusional, but if you feel that without having seeing him play the position that Gilliam is going to be an upgrade over Okung simply because he's more likely to stay healthy, an assumption in and of itself, I'd say that you are being overly optimistic.

[HumanCockroach]

I'll once again ask where I said he would be an upgrade? I don't work in absolutes. I said he may be an upgrade, truth is I don't know, just like YOU don't know he won't. I don't condemn anyone before actually seeing them play, something it seems I'm in the minority about. I pointed out facts, he has been more durable ( doesn't mean he will continue to be) and he is more athletic ( pretty easy to see considering he played TE and has a touchdown catch on his resume) none of those things mean he will be an upgrade, nor does anything posted about it mean he won't be. I'll go ahead and wait for him to actually, ya' know, PLAY before making those assessments.

It really is zero different than judging a rookie tackle before he's ever played a snap, whether it be Walter fricken Jones or not. No one knows before playing the position whether he'll pan out, because none of us has seen him play. Good Lord.

[RiverDog]

I'll once again ask where I said he would be an upgrade? I don't work in absolutes. I said he may be an upgrade, truth is I don't know, just like YOU don't know he won't. I don't condemn anyone before actually seeing them play, something it seems I'm in the minority about. I pointed out facts, he has been more durable ( doesn't mean he will continue to be) and he is more athletic ( pretty easy to see considering he played TE and has a touchdown catch on his resume) none of those things mean he will be an upgrade, nor does anything posted about it mean he won't be. I'll go ahead and wait for him to actually, ya' know, PLAY before making those assessments.

It really is zero different than judging a rookie tackle before he's ever played a snap, whether it be Walter fricken Jones or not. No one knows before playing the position whether he'll pan out, because none of us has seen him play. Good Lord.

Just as you never said that he was an upgrade (I didn't say that you did), I never said that he wouldn't be an upgrade or make any kind of assessments. Like you, I deal in absolutes.

But what you appear to be doing is lecturing some of us for expressing our concerns about Okung's replacement and the overall status of our offensive line, that we should be like you and start singing "Don't worry, Be Happy!"

[HumanCockroach]

No, I simply pointed out that Obi once again is banging the deathnell of the Seahawks .... Again.... Just like every year. No one knows what's going to happen, and as of right now, what's to worry about? Its 5 months until preseason, 6 months until a real game, and no one had seen Gilliam take a fricken snap at left tackle EVER...

He may indeed surprise the doom sayers, I'll go ahead and wait to see how he performs, it isn't like Okung was dominating last season, and he certainly wasn't close to this "all pro" tackle Obi was claiming he was, unless it was an all pro turnstile, false start machine. The bar hasn't been set exceptionally high for Gilliam or anyone else to duplicate in that regard. Basically Seattle will be facing a season with a rookie LT, something they've done before, there will be mistakes made, of that I have little doubt, and then we'll all be in familiar territory. Many here will claim he's worthless, not NFL level talent, should be dumped, then more than likely in a couple seasons he'll sign a huge contact somewhere, be a starter, and many will bemoan his loss, while claiming that he was an "all pro" talent that Seattle ' let go'.... It's what people here do. Ie Carpenter, Sweezy, Giacomini, Okung etc. I'm used to it, doesn't mean I'm going to complain about it ( seems to me they've done alright the last couple years) nor am I about to be worried about it. I trust this FO and coaching staff to evaluate and make the moves necessary too succeed ( been doing a pretty good job so far).

But it sure would be super if we could get to the point of seeing the guy play before skipping to the last step ( claiming he isn't NFL caliber)... As for the "saying he would be an upgrade thing" that's EXACTLY what Bob posted I said and you certainly seemed to be inferring that with this statement....

I'm not going to go so far as call you guys delusional, but if you feel that without having seeing him play the position that Gilliam is going to be an upgrade over Okung simply because he's more likely to stay healthy, an assumption in and of itself, I'd say that you are being overly optimistic

And it certainly seemed you were making an assessment of Okungs "replacement" right here, were you not?

My point is that although Okung was hurt a lot and not worth being paid in the top tier of offensive tackles, he was still a better than average LT when he did play, and I'll take 10 or 12 games of above average play out of Okung over 16 games of sub par performance out of his replacement. There's more to playing the position than merely suiting up every Sunday

[c_hawkbob]

I absolutely think that the likelihood of getting 16 games out of our LT for the first time in six flipping years, is in fact, an upgrade over Okung, who when he played was pretty good, in spite of all the boneheaded penalties, but who was ALWAYS hurt.
Gilliam will have some growing pains I am sure, but his athleticism ought to translate well to LT, which is in fact what he was being groomed for since day one.
So, am I delusional?

In the end, while I don't necessarily see him as becoming a more TALENTED LT than Okung was, I do see him becoming a better run blocker, and he's already ahead of Okung in the important stat of complete seasons played.

Again, If you have yourself convinced that Gilliam is going to be an upgrade over Okung in the near term you're fooling yourself, so that's a yes.

[RiverDog]

And it certainly seemed you were making an assessment of Okungs "replacement" right here, were you not?

No, I was not making an assessment of Okung's replacement. We don't even know who his replacement will be. Some are making the assumption that it's going to be Gilliam, but I haven't come to that conclusion, at least not yet. I am merely stating that if anyone in here is of the opinion that who ever his replacement winds up being that he's going to be an upgrade, that they're being overly optimistic, and I think that's a fair statement.

If obi wants to be a naysayer or a Debbie downer, then that's his business. It's his opinion, and so long as he's not foisting his views on anyone else, let him have his say. On this particular issue, I think he's completely justified at being nervous about our plans for LT. So am I.

[NorthHawk]

Losing talent is a big concern, but the lack of continuity is just as worrisome.
Considering the very limited coaching time in TC and practice during the year, working together as a group will be the key to success.
In 3 years we have lost all 5 of the starting OL in the Super Bowl, and we have seen a lesser product up front as a result.
The challenge is to solidify the OL with the players we have and if they are young, we might get to see them develop into a good unit once again.
I'm worried, though that the beginning of the year will be a repeat of last year. Maybe having gone through that, a plan to counter the areas of concern might be easier to come by and we might win those close games we would otherwise lose.

[Hawktawk]

We can lament Okungs departure all we want. But it appears the FO really didn't go hard for him even though the price didn't seem ridiculous. My concern with him was always injuries and the shoulder was very concerning to me. Okung has always had ankle, leg issues but when a lineman's upper body starts coming apart, especially a LT then it usually only gets worse. It may have been a factor in Seattle's thinking.

And honestly the guy can execute when healthy but how many false starts, holds, mental errors for a guy in his 6th pro season?

This FO must at least feel they have a plan that will enhance the stability of the position.

[HumanCockroach]

No, I was not making an assessment of Okung's replacement. We don't even know who his replacement will be. Some are making the assumption that it's going to be Gilliam, but I haven't come to that conclusion, at least not yet. I am merely stating that if anyone in here is of the opinion that who ever his replacement winds up being that he's going to be an upgrade, that they're being overly optimistic, and I think that's a fair statement.

If obi wants to be a naysayer or a Debbie downer, then that's his business. It's his opinion, and so long as he's not foisting his views on anyone else, let him have his say. On this particular issue, I think he's completely justified at being nervous about our plans for LT. So am I.

That certainly reads as an assessment, even if it isn't Gilliam or anyone on the roster, almost as if Okung it's the gold standard and whomever lines up there is a "sub par" replacement. Which you have zero idea to be the case.

As for Obi's "opinion" he has every right to express it, did I say somewhere he didn't? He made yet another "the sky is falling" statement and I replied, no different than YOU replying to MY opinion, or Bob replying to Monkeys opinion.

Spare me. The entirety of the board is an opinion, with responses to that opinion, you should know that by now and not need it explained. I'm not going to apologize for pointing out that he says the same thing every year, and to date, he's been wrong, anymore than I will for any other number of things within the same vein.

[c_hawkbob]

You do tend to over read what people say though Roach. For instance my reply to Monkey was strictly about what Monkey actually said, not what it was "almost like" he said.

You're absolutely right, we all have, and are entitled to, our own opinions, but you do tend to extrapolate in your responses to speak to what you think someone is thinking beyond what they actually say. That's why you get a lot of "no, that's not what I said" responses.

[HumanCockroach]

You do tend to over read what people say though Roach. For instance my reply to Monkey was strictly about what Monkey actually said, not what it was "almost like" he said.

You're absolutely right, we all have, and are entitled to, our own opinions, but you do tend to extrapolate in your responses to speak to what you think someone is thinking beyond what they actually say. That's why you get a lot of "no, that's not what I said" responses.

I do that because I'm actually attempting to make my position "clear"( though obviously not always successfully), far to often, it goes the other way around Bob, it's not simply on my end that those "almost said" opinions get thrown out my way ( something like "if you're trying to convince yourself that Gilliam will be an upgrade your delusional" or "we shouldn't be required to sing don't worry be happy" or " you're trying to convert us to thinking the way you do" or pretty much EVERY response ever in regards to the line when I preach patience or give them time - which ALWAYS equates to "I'm happy with the line play" somehow.)

It's part of being on this or any board, I'm not all by my onesome in that regard.

[RiverDog]

That certainly reads as an assessment, even if it isn't Gilliam or anyone on the roster, almost as if Okung it's the gold standard and whomever lines up there is a "sub par" replacement. Which you have zero idea to be the case.

As for Obi's "opinion" he has every right to express it, did I say somewhere he didn't? He made yet another "the sky is falling" statement and I replied, no different than YOU replying to MY opinion, or Bob replying to Monkeys opinion.

Spare me. The entirety of the board is an opinion, with responses to that opinion, you should know that by now and not need it explained. I'm not going to apologize for pointing out that he says the same thing every year, and to date, he's been wrong, anymore than I will for any other number of things within the same vein.

You didn't just reply to obi's statement. You characterized it as "the sky is falling" and said things like "I'm not pi$$ing my pants", the implication being that someone else, in this case Obi, is. That's why I reacted the way I did. I didn't think he deserved such an abrasive reaction, especially given that obi's not the only one that has expressed his misgivings about the subject matter. There are a number of us that are very uneasy with the state of affairs along the OL. Whether or not he's been wrong more times than he's been right? I honestly don't know, as I'm not keeping track. I don't really care how often any poster has been right or wrong. IMO it's not relevant to our discussion. Let's at least make an effort to debate the topic, not the poster.

I'm not asking you to apologize for anything as I don't think anything you said requires an apology. Obi's a grown man and doesn't need me to defend him. I'm just explaining my own reaction.

[HumanCockroach]

Come on RD. It has nothing to do with keeping score, just as many here had issues with a certain posters love affair with or current QB and refusal to acknowledge any fault in him, and hated Seattle's former starter and refused to give any credit or leeway, stating the same thing year after year, week after week, day after day - especially when it's the same negative message- gets old, especially when it's seldomly correct, doomsayers become "profits" when they are eventually correct ( broken clock twice a day thing), that said, my stance has been throughout this thread ( and YEARS of threads on the SAME exact vein) has been, wait until we at least SEE THEM PLAY before " pissing your pants about it" as no one here has the foggiest how it will play out, for all you or Obi know, Joe Thomas is a Seahawk later today, starts game one, sucks and is replaced by Gilliam. Running to the bomb shelter because a bottle rocket goes off is silly. Hell of a LOT of time before it becomes an "issue" IF it ever does.

I don't personally "appreciate" someone raining on my parade ( which happens to be the success of Seattle for the last four years) before I even get out of my house, if you're cool with it fine, but I shouldn't be told I should, simply because you and others are "worried" about something you've been "worried" about for FOUR years now. They have gotten the job done, I'm willing to at the VERY least allow them to continue to do that, they as a whole have given me personally very little reason to doubt their success, plan and evaluation ability inn regards to getting that success.

[RiverDog]

Come on RD. It has nothing to do with keeping score, just as many here had issues with a certain posters love affair with or current QB and refusal to acknowledge any fault in him, and hated Seattle's former starter and refused to give any credit or leeway, stating the same thing year after year, week after week, day after day - especially when it's the same negative message- gets old, especially when it's seldomly correct, doomsayers become "profits" when they are eventually correct ( broken clock twice a day thing), that said, my stance has been throughout this thread ( and YEARS of threads on the SAME exact vein) has been, wait until we at least SEE THEM PLAY before " pissing your pants about it" as no one here has the foggiest how it will play out, for all you or Obi know, Joe Thomas is a Seahawk later today, starts game one, sucks and is replaced by Gilliam. Running to the bomb shelter because a bottle rocket goes off is silly. Hell of a LOT of time before it becomes an "issue" IF it ever does.

I don't personally "appreciate" someone raining on my parade ( which happens to be the success of Seattle for the last four years) before I even get out of my house, if you're cool with it fine, but I shouldn't be told I should, simply because you and others are "worried" about something you've been "worried" about for FOUR years now. They have gotten the job done, I'm willing to at the VERY least allow them to continue to do that, they as a whole have given me personally very little reason to doubt their success, plan and evaluation ability inn regards to getting that success.

Yea, I hear ya about Anthony and his man crush on Russell and his anti Hass stance, and you're right, I'm guilty as charged for calling him out. But that's an extreme example. Obi hasn't been harping on Okung's replacement to anywhere the same degree Anthony did with Wilson/Hass. Not even close.

If you want to "wait until we see them play" before "pi$$ing your pants", then that's fine with me. As for me, I'll urinate whenever and wherever I please, whether that be in my pants or somewhere else. I'm not going to bust my bladder by being forced to wait until I see them play.

[monkey]

Again, If you have yourself convinced that Gilliam is going to be an upgrade over Okung in the near term you're fooling yourself, so that's a yes.

I didn't say he would be an upgrade in terms of talent, I said that he will be in terms of health, (and probably run blocking as well). It's hardly delusional to suggest that getting 16 games out of your starting LT is an upgrade over a LT who NEVER ONCE EVER, had a healthy full season of football.
Will he ever be as good a pass blocker as Okung? Unlikely. Though I would bet he'll be every bit as good and maybe better as a run blocker.
Will he ever be good enough that, in spite of his (comparatively) lesser ability as a pass blocker, he can be considered at least in the same class? I'd say yeah, absolutely. He showed enough last season that I think his potential upside is at least comparable (when factoring in his run blocking) to what Okung brought when healthy.

Point is this, let's say that Okung is an 8.5 out of 10 as a LT. Let's further say that (right now) Gilliam is a 7, (though I think we can reasonably expect him to get better as he gets more experience).
I will take a full 16 games out of a 7 with upside, over an 8.5 who never stays healthy ANY TIME!
To me, after factoring in the money saved, and the likely better health, it is an upgrade.

[HumanCockroach]

His statements weren't "just about Okung" anymore than those statements were "just about Carpenter" last year. The drum is tired( just like Anthony's were) and I called him on it, just like you did with Anthony. By all means freak out as often as you want, and I'll continue to call you on it. There's 6 months before a meaningful snap occurs, you want to panic for six months be my guest, doesn't make it crazy to point it how pointless out is.

[monkey]

I personally find it amusing that so many fans are hitting the panic button, BEFORE WE'VE EVEN DRAFTED!!!

Come on guys! At least be sensible and wait until after free agency and the draft plays out (there will be players cut after the draft as well remember) before starting the panic party.

[c_hawkbob]

No one here is panicking, at all.

And Monkey, I'm not talking about "in terms of health", I'm talking about to the team at the position of LT over the course of the season. And My opinion is that even if he is healthy all 16 games he will not be an upgrade over Okung for however many games Okung would have healthy, certainly not this year at least and likely not next.

Making such an observation and holding such an opinion is nothing even remotely resembling panic.

edit: I have also said, at every turn, that there is a lot of offseason left for Pete and John to make good on their stated "focus" for this offseason.

[monkey]

No one here is panicking, at all.

And Monkey, I'm not talking about "in terms of health", I'm talking about to the team at the position of LT over the course of the season. And My opinion is that even if he is healthy all 16 games he will not be an upgrade over Okung for however many games Okung would have healthy, certainly not this year at least and likely not next.

Making such an observation and holding such an opinion is nothing even remotely resembling panic.

edit: I have also said, at every turn, that there is a lot of offseason left for Pete and John to make good on their stated "focus" for this offseason.

I should have directed the panic comment more specifically, it was NOT aimed at you at all. I know better with you. You almost never panic.
I was actually echoing Human Cockroach's comments more than anything.

But to the point I was actually addressing at you, I understand what you're saying, and I'm not trying to play games with the language here...I just actually believe that getting a full season out of a LT is more valuable to the line than a guy who can play at a pro bowl level for 11 games, while missing 5 and parts of others.
If you read Pete's comments about our two new o-linemen, it seems that Pete may feel that way as well.

“Always in our program, we’re looking to give the guys an opportunity to compete, show us where they fit,’’ Carroll said. “Both of these guys, we think have a chance with their versatility and their health and all that, they can be good factors for us. Whereas maybe not everybody saw it that way, that’s the way that we see these guys, and so we’re excited about them.’’

I feel strongly that his mentioning health was no accident, and is a huge hint as to why Pete and John decided to let Okung walk.

[obiken]

Thanks River! I was not panicking.
Come on everyone, We have best QB, in the League. We have a great Defense, when they are all playing, we have a good young RB in Rawls. I am not worried about wins anymore.
Even though you never liked me Human, and you never will, I really am not trying to rain on your parade. Come on we won a SB, its all gravy after that! I am just concerned about RW's future health. I have to think people will be shocked when we don't draft an OLineman in the first 3 rounds, this year, I wont be. I am on to Pete's game, its a gamble, pay the QB and the defense all the money they want, and go cheap everywhere else. Its worked until now. I just hope defenses, don't make a wishbone out of RW's stubby little legs.

[RiverDog]

I personally find it amusing that so many fans are hitting the panic button, BEFORE WE'VE EVEN DRAFTED!!!

Come on guys! At least be sensible and wait until after free agency and the draft plays out (there will be players cut after the draft as well remember) before starting the panic party.

And I find it amusing that the same fans that were telling us not to hit the panic button or to wait until the first snap last year after we traded Unger then didn't come up with a viable replacement until over halfway through the regular season by which time we had for all intents and purposes were demoted to fighting over table scraps are the same ones that are offering up the same advice this season after we failed to bring back both Okung and Sweezy, arguably our two best OL.

As CBob stated, no one is hitting the panic button or running around saying that the sky is falling. We are waiting to see what our plan is going to be for addressing what nearly everyone agrees is the major weakness on this team, that being our offensive line. It's a mystery to us, and especially given the last several seasons where we lost OL and didn't do an adequate job of replacing them, we're quite understandably very anxious to see what that plan is going to be.

[HumanCockroach]

Did they miss the playoffs? Were they not one half of halfway decent football from playing in the conference championship.... Again? Seems to me, that those "scraps" were significant, the expectation that they'll be in the SB every single year seems ludicrous to me, and they did that without a starting RB on a team predicated on running the football. Maybe, I'm giving them too much credit, and have had the wool pulled over my eyes, but I'm going to go ahead and give the guys who have been to the playoffs 4 straight years with 2 SBs the benefit of the doubt here, certainly before I weigh the oh so accurate "experts" opinions, or those of fans that have been complaining incessantly about that line for four straight years non stop ( WHILE winning a SB and appearing in another).

( and people need to stop claiming Seattle "lost" Unger, Unger was traded, not lost.... And by the by, there's quite a few rumors out there that the Saints are going to CUT him or force him to take a huge paycut).

[Hawktawk]

Did they miss the playoffs? Were they not one half of halfway decent football from playing in the conference championship.... Again? Seems to me, that those "scraps" were significant, the expectation that they'll be in the SB every single year seems ludicrous to me, and they did that without a starting RB on a team predicated on running the football. Maybe, I'm giving them too much credit, and have had the wool pulled over my eyes, but I'm going to go ahead and give the guys who have been to the playoffs 4 straight years with 2 SBs the benefit of the doubt here, certainly before I weigh the oh so accurate "experts" opinions, or those of fans that have been complaining incessantly about that line for four straight years non stop ( WHILE winning a SB and appearing in another).

( and people need to stop claiming Seattle "lost" Unger, Unger was traded, not lost.... And by the by, there's quite a few rumors out there that the Saints are going to CUT him or force him to take a huge paycut).

Exactly
I remember hearing Bill Polian after SB 48 discussing the excellent job Wilson had done with very mediocre line play in the game. Specifically of Unger he said "he's got a big name". Pot Roast abused him, Lynch was basically stuffed most of the game. That was the best line of Carroll's tenure but it wasn't like it was the hogs or something.

Max Unger played 6 games in 2014 and Seattle went to the SB. Poor short yards production in the run game all season in 2014 was a factor possibly leading to a horrible decision in the closing seconds of Super bowl 49. I was overjoyed he was traded for Graham and had Jimmy stayed healthy everyone would be.

Could the line be better? sure but what position will be neglected? As has been pointed out with the salary cap you have to pick your poison. Seattle witches brew has been pretty darn effective. With RW under center the line just doesn't have to be as dominant.