Mebane and Sweezy, gone.

[mykc14]

This ^^^ exactly.
I want in on this "remember this thread" stuff as well, because you're darned right he's gotten better every year.
Fact of the matter is, while he never did get to be much of a pass blocker, there's a REALLY good reason he's getting paid right now, and it's because of his run blocking, which is every bit as good as any lineman in football right now.
Sweezy's attitude, toughness and run blocking are underrated, marketable skills, and they are worth a lot of money to run first teams. When Pete Carroll talks about "grit", Sweezy absolutely personifies it.
For all the complaining about him, I would have preferred they keep him myself, for exactly the reason that Bob stated; you never get to fully realize the value of project players unless you sign them to a second contract. We end up, as Bob said, developing good linemen for other teams to profit from. But that's the trouble with project linemen.

Now Justin Britt....that's a whole other can of worms.

I agree with Money, Bob, and HC on this one. I think Sweezy has transitioned exceptionally well from the D-line to Guard. If he continues to improve then he almost certainly will be a Pro-Bowler soon. Also, Tampa is a good team for him to go to because they will play to his, run blocking. If we could have signed him to a long term contract this off-season I have very little doubt we would be paying one of the top 5 guards in the league by the time his contract came up. I think the Hawks believe that as well, but they don't want to pay any guard top 2-3 guard money. Just like they don't want to pay any DL or OL top money at their position. They fill like it is easier to plug and play there than anywhere else, IMO (and maybe receiver, we'll see what happens with ADB's contract).

[NorthHawk]

In a passing league, how many poor to average pass blockers will make the Pro Bowl?
If their lead back runs for 2000 yards, he will be a consideration just because of the association, but that is a doubtful total at this point.
The question is has he reached his ceiling or can he improve within another system to the point of being a solid pass blocker?

[NorthHawk]

Seahawks signed J'Marcus Webb overnight. I suspect it's to fill Sweezy's spot.
I hope he has something left, but a veteran presence along the line should help with Okung probably gone.

[Vegaseahawk]

Seahawks signed J'Marcus Webb overnight. I suspect it's to fill Sweezy's spot.
I hope he has something left, but a veteran presence along the line should help with Okung probably gone.

They also signed Sowell, but he's a 2nd stringer.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/199978/how-bradley-sowell-fits-into-the-seahawks-offensive-line-picture

[obiken]

Sowell is Mutt food. My friend in Cleveland is hearing of the Hawks giving up a 1st rounder for Joe Thomas.

[obiken]

ESPN yesterday.


Mar 14, 2016
Sheil Kapadia
ESPN Writer


As the Seattle Seahawks continue to wade through the second wave of free agency, one need stands above all others: left tackle.

Russell Okung has met with the New York Giants, Detroit Lions and Pittsburgh Steelers. He has offers on the table, but has apparently not found one yet that has blown him away. If Okung ends up signing elsewhere, the Seahawks will have to shift their attention to another option.

There are two other established, quality starting left tackles on the market: Donald Penn and Kelvin Beachum. Penn turns 33 next month, but has been extremely durable. Beachum is 26, but coming off of an ACL injury.

The Seahawks have cap space available and will likely focus this week on landing one of those three left tackles. But what happens if they're unsuccessful?

The big picture has to be considered here. Their window to win a Super Bowl is wide-open, and the core of the roster is under contract. The defense is loaded with talent and has led the league in fewest points allowed for four straight seasons. Russell Wilson took another giant step in his development, going on a 24 touchdown/one interception tear to end the 2015 season.

Keeping all that in mind, general manager John Schneider and Pete Carroll appear committed to going into 2016 with as few question marks as possible. That doesn't mean sacrificing the future, but it does mean taking calculated risks. And one move that could fit that description is trading for Cleveland Browns left tackle Joe Thomas.

[HumanCockroach]

In a passing league, how many poor to average pass blockers will make the Pro Bowl?
If their lead back runs for 2000 yards, he will be a consideration just because of the association, but that is a doubtful total at this point.
The question is has he reached his ceiling or can he improve within another system to the point of being a solid pass blocker?

Poor to average pass blocking guards? Most. Poor to average pass blocking tackles? Few.

[Steady_Hawk]

Obi,

Joe Thomas seems like an interesting trade, but the guy is 31 already. I know we are in a win now phase and I guess that could justify the trade but I wish the guy was a bit younger.

[obiken]

I hear you but it could take 2-3 years to bring a rookie online that's if you get lucky. This guy is an All-Pro. Top 5 in the League. I say we go.

[RiverDog]

Obi,

Joe Thomas seems like an interesting trade, but the guy is 31 already. I know we are in a win now phase and I guess that could justify the trade but I wish the guy was a bit younger.

Here's an interesting article from BR about the average productivity per season for all positions, including offensive linemen:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1683 ... fl-players

Yet, peak AV moves the way we expect it: a big jump in the second year, a steady climb to year seven, a drop-off to a plateau from year eight to year 12 and then another big drop-off and decline.


Thomas was drafted in 2007, which means he'll be entering his 10th season, so he has 3 years before he hits the 12th season drop off referred to in the article. In addition, Thomas is arguably the best LT in his era, making the Pro Bowl in every one of his 9 seasons and named All Pro in 6 of those 9 seasons, so you have to think that if anyone is going to beat the odds and produce Pro Bowl quality seasons well into his mid 30's, it would be him. He hasn't missed a game since he came into the league, playing in all 144 games in his 9 seasons. He's on track to be the next Bruce Mathews.

If all we have to surrender is one first round draft pick (less than what we gave up for Percy Harvin) and as long as we didn't end up with a 5 or 6 year guaranteed deal, then I'd take this trade in a heartbeat. I'd love to have this guy covering Russell's blind side. With most of our core players under contract, our window of opportunity is now.

[NorthHawk]

Our Offense is said to be particularly hard on Tackles (a few articles I've read said Detroit and Pittsburgh Offenses would be easier on Okung so he might not be injured as often) so would an older player survive as well as a younger player might considering the punishment of our run first philosophy?

Come to think of it, maybe a part of the OL philosophy takes the beating they take into account when determining whether to keep a player or offer less than other teams might in FA.

[Hawk Sista]

I've heard the Joe Thomas rumor too. As I've said, I'd make a terrible GM because I'd most assuredly inject personal feelings into decisions like this. I would do what I could to get Thomas here - age and all.

And I'm in the camp that didn't want Sweezy to go. Strongly. I can't see paying a guard 7 million bucks. I dunno, maybe that's old fashioned. I'm hoping Glowinski proves to be a stud and that the Hawks brass use this draft to fortify the line. I see them doing Defense in the second round after they trade out of the first. Hopefully for Thomas.

#DRAFTFAT

[mykc14]

I've heard the Joe Thomas rumor too. As I've said, I'd make a terrible GM because I'd most assuredly inject personal feelings into decisions like this. I would do what I could to get Thomas here - age and all.

And I'm in the camp that didn't want Sweezy to go. Strongly. I can't see paying a guard 7 million bucks. I dunno, maybe that's old fashioned. I'm hoping Glowinski proves to be a stud and that the Hawks brass use this draft to fortify the line. I see them doing Defense in the second round after they trade out of the first. Hopefully for Thomas.

#DRAFTFAT

Yeah its hard to pay a guard, especially a Right Guard, that much money. Sweezy has the 2nd highest cap hit of any guard in the league next year at 9.5 mil (although his yearly averages is 10th, but almost all of those ahead of him play left guard). The price for all positions is going up, there is no doubt and as long as these teams are flush with cap space and are being forced to use it that trend will probably continue. Osemele's huge contract really skewed the market for Guards as it represents over a 30% increase over average salary then the previously highest paid (by average) guard (Iupati).

[Steady_Hawk]

Ok Riv, I've got a rock and a hard place scenario for you. Okung leaves, Browns contact Seattle but don't want to trade picks, they want Kam straight across for Thomas.

What say you?

[RiverDog]

Ok Riv, I've got a rock and a hard place scenario for you. Okung leaves, Browns contact Seattle but don't want to trade picks, they want Kam straight across for Thomas.

What say you?

Boy, that's a tough one. It would all hinge on exactly what Pete and JS's personal feelings are about Kam, something no one is privy to. We know that in public, they are only going to say good things about Kam as they would any player.

But my instinct is to say yes to that proposed deal. We're loaded on defense and thin on the OL.

[burrrton]

But my instinct is to say yes to that proposed deal. We're loaded on defense and thin on the OL.

I'm going to give my opinion because internet.

I say no because Kam is integral to our defense, and our defense is integral to our success, while the o-line only needs to be 'just adequate'.

No?

[RiverDog]

I say no because Kam is integral to our defense, and our defense is integral to our success, while the o-line only needs to be 'just adequate'.

No?

Joe Thomas has played in all 144 games of his 9 year career, and he's holding down the LT spot, one of the highest rated positions in the game. Kam had a sub par year last season coming off a serious injury and a holdout, and he's just a safety, one of the lower rated positions.

Just food for thought.

[Hawktawk]

MMMMM. Tough one. I think we need to know what JS has in mind for a replacement for both positions before we can totally answer that. If we get Okung back or they feel OK about someone else why do it?

If its going to be a saloon door on Russel's backside then we need to do it.This offense has top 5 potential but not with Wilson on ir.

[burrrton]

Joe Thomas has played in all 144 games of his 9 year career, and he's holding down the LT spot, one of the highest rated positions in the game. Kam had a sub par year last season coming off a serious injury and a holdout, and he's just a safety, one of the lower rated positions.

Just food for thought.

Solid argument, but even with his sub-par year at a lower-rated position, the difference was dramatic with him in there, wasn't it?

[c_hawkbob]

It's almost like would you trade Kenny Easley nearing the end of his career for Walter Jones nearing the end of his ... I believe I would.

[Hawktawk]

It's almost like would you trade Kenny Easley nearing the end of his career for Walter Jones nearing the end of his ... I believe I would.

Good analogy although Id say they both have more gas in the tank than either Easley or Jones towards the end.

[RiverDog]

"Joe Thomas has played in all 144 games of his 9 year career, and he's holding down the LT spot, one of the highest rated positions in the game. Kam had a sub par year last season coming off a serious injury and a holdout, and he's just a safety, one of the lower rated positions.

Just food for thought."

Solid argument, but even with his sub-par year at a lower-rated position, the difference was dramatic with him in there, wasn't it?

It undoubtedly was in 2014, but not so much in 2015. His presence didn't help us that much in the playoffs. Wasn't it his man that got the Vikings into what would have been a game winning FG had it been properly executed?

Keep in mind that I'm not advocating that we aggressively seek out a deal to trade him. But a straight up Thomas-for-Kam trade would be an offer we couldn't refuse.

It's a moot point anyway. IMO if the Browns want to move Thomas, they are more likely to attempt a Hershel Walker-style trade involving multiple draft picks than they would a player-for-player deal.

[RiverDog]

It's almost like would you trade Kenny Easley nearing the end of his career for Walter Jones nearing the end of his ... I believe I would.

Good analogy. Walter Jones had a 13 year career. Thomas is heading into his 10th season. In Walt's 10th season, he was second team All Pro, his 11th season he was 1st team All Pro, and he was 2nd team All Pro in his 12th.

I'd trade Kam in a heartbeat if we could expect that kind of production out of a LT.

[burrrton]

Good analogy. Walter Jones had a 13 year career. Thomas is heading into his 10th season. In Walt's 10th season, he was second team All Pro, his 11th season he was 1st team All Pro, and he was 2nd team All Pro in his 12th.

I'd trade Kam in a heartbeat if we could expect that kind of production out of a LT.

Yeah, hard to argue with that.

[mykc14]

I know I'm late to the party, but I wouldn't hesitate to make that move. LT is a premier position and you are getting one of the best in the league at a very good price (9-10 mil/yr), which puts him at around the 10th highest paid LT as far as cap hit. At the same time you are giving up a younger player who is one of the best in the league but he is the top 1 or 2 paid players at his position. No brainer. The reality is that the Browns would never make that move, especially because they are already paying Donte Whitner top Strong Safety money.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Okung signed a 5-year deal with the Broncos at $10.6 million/yr. It will be interesting to see what unfolds in our LT search.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... eyear-deal

[obiken]

That's huge. I never saw Denver in the picture. Now he gets to go block for an immobile qb. 10 million a year for a guy that was ranked as the 31st best OT in the league. With his injury problems. Sorry, I have the Broncos ponied up for some insurance.

[NorthHawk]

Sanchez isn't that immobile, but if they have less emphasis on running, Okung might be able to last the year without injury.

Edit:
Comment from PFT:

"The truth, as Mike Garafolo of FOX Sports reports and PFT has confirmed, is that it’s a one-year, $5 million deal with a team option for the final four years and $48 million. The guaranteed money at signing is less than $5 million, according to a source with knowledge of the deal."

[c_hawkbob]

Can't cheap out on a LT. I sure hope we got a plan ...

[Steady_Hawk]

Yup, the plan is called RUN FOR YOUR LIFE RUSSELL!!!!!

Yikes, it looks like the Hawks may have had no real intention of wanting Okung back as the terms he agreed to seem more than fair.

[HumanCockroach]

LOL. That's all.

[Hawktawk]

Russell has won plenty of games without ever having an elite offensive line, plenty without Russell "china" Okung. I wish the guy well and hope he can stay healthy for once. Maybe we will see if the Thomas rumors have any traction.

[HumanCockroach]

Can't cheap out on a LT. I sure hope we got a plan ...

Sure you can, in fact MOST teams do. You don't pay premium money for tackles you don't feel are premium tackles, Okung was really not a premium tackle, and nobody felt he was a premium tackle in the entire NFL which is why he signed the deal he did.

In a guess, I would say they feel comfortable with Gilliam's progress( at least as a "patch") until they either find a better replacement, can draft a long term dominant tackle, or find a better player through trade or late cuts. They aren't simply pulling guys off the street, but it's also not wise to invest 10 million in a player that is injury prone, and has never been "dominant" inn the NFL that currently is rehabbing from yet another injury. Okung is "gambling" on himself, which is fair, but who knows if he'll ever be able to reach the potential he has flashed? Obviously Seattle was done waiting, Denver protected themselves, and Okung rolled the dice.


http://overthecap.com/position/left-tackle/

[RiverDog]

Can't cheap out on a LT. I sure hope we got a plan ...

Couldn't agree more.

I'm not saying that we should have throw an obscene amount of money at Okung as I agree that he's not worth it, but I don't want us to do like we did when we traded Unger and have Pete just go out to the practice field and holler "next man up!"

We need a plan to replace him, whether that be through FA, the draft, or some sort of a trade.

[NorthHawk]

I think a Tackle to replace Okung will be selected in the first 2 rounds. A name that comes up a lot is Germain Ifedi who is raw, but a great athlete, and we know how the FO considers the SPARC scores.

[jshawaii22]

The Seahawks sure don't like to put CAP into the OLine. 5 Million for a year and we wouldn't beat it. (I assume that we at least were called by OKung before he jumped, but you never know.

Now it's possible that we 'trade' for Denver's LT, who is considered better, but is also always hurt. You just can't predict 'healthy' for a player.

js

[NorthHawk]

The Seahawks sure don't like to put CAP into the OLine. 5 Million for a year and we wouldn't beat it. (I assume that we at least were called by OKung before he jumped, but you never know.

Now it's possible that we 'trade' for Denver's LT, who is considered better, but is also always hurt. You just can't predict 'healthy' for a player.

js

Would it make sense to pay more for a player that has been injured as often as Okung and lose another player or draft pick?
I don't know whether that is a consideration, but it doesn't sound like its something they would do.

[obiken]

Yup, the plan is called RUN FOR YOUR LIFE RUSSELL!!!!!

Yikes, it looks like the Hawks may have had no real intention of wanting Okung back as the terms he agreed to seem more than fair.

Oh that's so true and so hilarious!

[Zorn76]

Okung's injury history had a pretty big impact on his odds staying here, naturally, and he got Paid by the Broncos, mostly due to the value of the position. And considering what he's getting, I'm ok with him moving on. I give the guy a C+ for his tenure in Seattle.

We'll see what happens. I have faith in Pete & John that they'll find a way to get a decent replacement. R.O. leaving was somewhat expected, given the likelihood was high of getting better money elsewhere.

[jshawaii22]

"Would it make sense to pay more for a player that has been injured as often as Okung and lose another player or draft pick?
I don't know whether that is a consideration, but it doesn't sound like its something they would do."

Not too many other viable options unless they intend to use the 29th pick in the draft to get one, but that's not a guarantee that whomever we pick would be NFL ready and I read that it's a very small pool of OT's this year in the draft and after the first 12 picks, its slim pickins'. In a perfect world, I would not replace Okung with another oft injured player either, but we do need something better then what we just signed as FA's.