Offense Needs To Improve

[Eaglehawk]

Hey Monkey,

Yes, you say conservative all along. That does equal to the slump over the last few games. You and I say the same thing bro. I give the Saints game a pass due to the weather. So we actually agree that that game needed to be called conservatively. Not so much the other games.
Monkey, its not just conservative, our offense has fallen off a cliff!

So yeah I understand Pete's conservative play calling. Fine. I just don't like it. I take it you don't either from what you have written as to his calling plays during the game.

Its Pete's call. He is calling conservative games. I don't like it. Maybe you do Monkey, or you feel it is inevitable so why worry cause its NOT going to change.
You know what Monkey, I think it will change come this Sunday. You will see RW pass for more yards and you will see our receivers step up. You disagree? Go on the record brotha and say so, or forever hold your piece, I mean peace.(ah, you get my drift Monkey)

If we lose, it will be because they have not utilized all the offensive tools in their tool kit in my humble opinion.
I suspect they will open things up a bit this SUNDAY. They have to. We have one of the smartest 2nd year qb's in the league and while I laud conservative playing at times during inclement weather, I want to be a bit more aggressive, I want to see some gadget plays, some screens, some TE sets. Some IMAGINATION from our offense.

Whether we will see it or not Monkey who the hell knows. You think we won't, I think we will my friend.

[monkey]

Well, Bevell is the play caller, but Pete and Darrell want the same thing so...yeah I guess you can blame Pete if you want.
Personally I do think it's inevitable so why bother worry about it? It's been a winning formula, and when a change was needed, in order to come from behind, (like the Falcons, Patriots, Bears, and Buccaneers games)Darrell and Pete had no problem making that change, and with letting Russell Wilson cut loose.

So yeah, I don't see the need to worry since we keep winning, and when we've needed to be less conservative to win games, we've done that as well.
It's just the way it is, Pete and Darrell will be as conservative as they reasonably can until they can't any longer, but in the end they will do what they have to in order to win, and we have a QB who is more than capable. That's why I don't worry

[monkey]

I maintain Wilson is fatigued and Bevell and Pete are seeing this in practice. I mean no offense, but it's a bit absurd, IMO, to think we are smarter than those guys and that they are intentionally holding Wilson back even though he is capable of much more. Why would they engage in such lunacy?

Dude, it's his philosophy. You may think of it as lunacy if you like, but they engage in it, because they hate turnovers.

I'm curious, do you know about the Fieldgulls website?
I ask because they've written article after article after article about Pete's (and Bevell's) philosophy regarding offense, and turnovers. Good articles too, well researched good stuff.
It's not just there either, it's in virtually every press conference, and interview that Pete and Darrell do, if you know how to read between the lines of what they are saying. They straight up TELL YOU that they are intentionally putting a governor on the offense, so as not to make turnovers. Go to Fieldgulls (if you haven't) and read some of the old stuff written about Pete and Bevell's philosophy, it will explain so much. Here's a link to a recent article talking about exactly this stuff. http://www.fieldgulls.com/2014/1/14/5307048/touchdown-seahawks-when-they-feel-like-it
Wilson isn't fatigued, it's the play calling.

Now, htere is another possibility that you haven't mentioned about the way Wilson has looked in recent games, you could make the case that he's been in a slump, the same way that pitchers go through slumps.
That is something that is a reasonable debate. I think there may even be something to that...Wilson has looked to be in a bit hesitant to throw lately, and has been a bit off accuracy wise for periods in recent games.
Of course, there's no way to know that for certain, and I might be completely wrong.

[Eaglehawk]

Well, Bevell is the play caller, but Pete and Darrell want the same thing so...yeah I guess you can blame Pete if you want.
Personally I do think it's inevitable so why bother worry about it? It's been a winning formula, and when a change was needed, in order to come from behind, (like the Falcons, Patriots, Bears, and Buccaneers games)Darrell and Pete had no problem making that change, and with letting Russell Wilson cut loose.

So yeah, I don't see the need to worry since we keep winning, and when we've needed to be less conservative to win games, we've done that as well.
It's just the way it is, Pete and Darrell will be as conservative as they reasonably can until they can't any longer, but in the end they will do what they have to in order to win, and we have a QB who is more than capable. That's why I don't worry

Monkey you have ice running through your veins. I am worried silly about our offensive production on Sunday. You, my friend, are an oak.

[monkey]

Well, Bevell is the play caller, but Pete and Darrell want the same thing so...yeah I guess you can blame Pete if you want.
Personally I do think it's inevitable so why bother worry about it? It's been a winning formula, and when a change was needed, in order to come from behind, (like the Falcons, Patriots, Bears, and Buccaneers games)Darrell and Pete had no problem making that change, and with letting Russell Wilson cut loose.

So yeah, I don't see the need to worry since we keep winning, and when we've needed to be less conservative to win games, we've done that as well.
It's just the way it is, Pete and Darrell will be as conservative as they reasonably can until they can't any longer, but in the end they will do what they have to in order to win, and we have a QB who is more than capable. That's why I don't worry

Monkey you have ice running through your veins. I am worried silly about our offensive production on Sunday. You, my friend, are an oak.

It's easy when you know the kind of person that Wilson is, the kind that works harder than everyone else, the kind that refuses to allow things to get in the way of his goals.

It's also easier when you know the enemy, specifically Kaepernick. Between the two of them, which is the more likely to make the big mental error?
The answer is so obvious. When the chips are down, I'm betting on Wilson EVERY TIME!!! I'm also betting against Kaepernick in Century Link every time!

[monkey]

Not trying to monopolize the conversation, or to beat anyone over the head with what I think, but I do have the final, and definitive word on this subject, so I thought I would share.

“If we keep taking care of the football, it will give us our chance to get the wins,” Seattle coach Pete Carroll said. “We would like to make it easier and see the yards there, but as long as we’re playing within the formula, then we’re OK.”

Carroll thinks people are making too much out of the team’s lack of explosiveness on offense. And he has no problems with Wilson’s performance.

“He’s doing what we need to do in these games,” Carroll said. “We can always do better, but he’s very concerned about leading us in the way that keeps our philosophy intact, which is take care of the football. He’s done a great job of that, and he’s done that all year long.”

So, like I've been saying, it's all about taking care of the football, staying within his philosophy.

[Anthony]

I personally think the following:
1. Bevell and PC are two sides of the same coin. PC is in control, but Bevell is absolutely what PC already wanted.
2. I love the post about PC coming from the Lineage of Martyball. Now we have Bevell Ball.
3. I don't like Bevell Ball.
4. We have won games playing Bevell Ball.
5. We have lost games playing Bevell Ball.
6. Last time RW was in rhythm was during the Giants game against a piss poor team. (Correct me if my memory fails or if you disagree).
7. We can't use the Saints game as a full comparator to judge our offensive play due to the weather.
8. Our offensive production has plummeted because we have as PC admitted played conservative.
9. We have several theories about why we have suddenly gone so conservative after clinching the playoffs. From RW being fatigued, to weather, to don't play to lose, to keep the lead, this is the way PC always wanted it, RW's protecting the ball, etc.

Personally, I don't know. I don't know why our offense has slipped so far in these last few games. I think someone commented about the weather. Maybe in part though. We didn't have bad weather for all these last games.
Another point was maybe we are playing against better defenses. Cards and Rams D and Saints D are no joke. That could explain it.

When did Wilson's inaccurate throws start? (More than usual I mean, not just here and there). I'll take that back, maybe this is not even an issue, right? I saw just 3 off throws during the Saints game. One to Harvin when RW was running for his life and the two missed slant throws. This is normal IMO.
Brees was even more off. Again due to weather. Difference is with RW I just think he missed, short slant is not the equivalent of going back 2 steps and chucking the ball 40 yards to Chucky Cheese in the endzone against a 30 mph headwind. But nothing where I would get too upset about.

RECEIVERS: Now there some posters may have hit the nail on the head. I looked at some games, and what did I notice? Our receivers were not getting much separation from their men. The Saints game as well, I looked at the coaches film and saw everyone covered. Even Baldwin on that circus catch was closely covered.

RW is not FORCING THE BALL. This is very very good indeed and probably why we are still winning games.

I suspect and I hope that PC-Bevell now knows that everyone in the sports world thinks his offense is vanilla. Which is why they will open up the gates of hell this Sunday with some new stuff. Just my guess. You will see Wilson take more shots and you will see our receivers step up.

One question: I think the guy with the best hands on the team is MIller, with Kearse Baldwin Tate coming in a close 2nd. Why did we wait until the 4th Q last game to throw him the ball? As another poster said, no screens, few read options. Some but not many. Again Saints game we give them a bit of a pass due to weather.

I don't know guys, I have a sneaky suspicion that PC and Bevell wants the NIners to exactly scheme for run run pass, because come Sunday there will be other options for them to take advantage of and catch the Niners iffy secondary sleeping. Or PC could just continue to do what they have been doing and drive some fans on this forum crazy, yet continue to "win baby win".

No way we lose to SFO in our house. NO WAY. Sorry for the novel.

Don't be sorry no matter the results this was a great post and I think hit the nail on the head.

[Anthony]

Two quick things.
We haven't "suddenly gone conservative"...we've been conservative all along.

It was asked, "When did Wilson's inaccurate throws start?" Huh?!? When did that wind that was ripping across Century Link start? I'm not a weatherman, but maybe Drew Brees knows. His throws were inaccurate as all heck, maybe he noticed when the wind started.
Look, every QB throws inaccurate passes at times. Wilson throws fewer passes by design so you guys notice the inaccurate ones more. BUT, he is NOT throwing MORE inaccurate passes than usual, or more on average than other QB's, (with the exception of that windy game, where Brees too was throwing horribly off target wounded ducks, at least two of which should have been picked off).

I don't quite understand what you guys are all worried about. This conservative approach is NOT new. All year long Pete has used his timeouts in such a way, that lets you and everyone else know, he trusts the defense, and he wants the defense on the field with time running out, because he wants to play ultra conservative, and make sure no turnovers can possibly happen. Look at the Rams game in St. Louis, and the way Pete left his timeouts in his pocket with time ticking off. Actually he's done that all year long.
If you can't remember that, ask Riverdog if that's true, Riv and I have both been TICKED off at Pete's use of timeouts, because he's not giving Wilson and that offense a chance to win games at the end.
But that's just his philosophy. I don't like it one little bit myself, I disagree completely with Pete on that. I think you should ALWAYS do whatever you can to give Wilson one last shot. Pete disagrees obviously, he's shown time and time again that he wants the defense on the field as time ticks down.
It doesn't get more conservative than that!! But it's who we've been all along.
The offense will be what it is, and what that means is, Wilson won't get to throw a lot, and the offense will often look out of synch, as it has at times at various times throughout this season. Get used to it, it's not Wilson's fault, it's the fault of the philosophy, and it's NOT going to change.

You could be right, but if it does not change a little or at least go back to PRE NO, we will struggle to win. By the way Rocket Raccoon nice.

[THX-1138]

I'm pretty much done with the contingency that fails to see the possibility RW may be getting worn down. Common sense would suggest as much. Not many humans could carry the load he has dealt with on and off the field over the past 2 seasons. A generous portion of that time with an O-line no better than Bama's.

So you're not even going to entertain any opposition to your statement? You can't find it in you to consider an opposing view? C'mon, man.

Tom Brady doesn't look fatigued. Neither does Manning, or Kap. So why should RW be, especially in light of the reasons I stated? It's nothing personal, it's just disagreement. But it's disagreement that is totally germane to the discussion at hand, that being the Seahawks inefficiency on offense. I really don't think it's because RW is tired.

Look, you can respond or not, but don't get bent out of shape that not everyone agrees with your point. From my point of view, on a discussion board you can either argue your point or be convinced of the evidence provided by those that disagree with you enough to change your position. Or just drop it. But my pet peeve is when people make declaratory statements like "I'm through with you people". To me it's the internet equivalent of saying that you are going to take your bat and ball and go home.

I'd never presume to tell anyone how to conduct themselves, especially when, like yourself, they aren't behaving like d**ks. But don't give everyone the brush-off as if their point of view is beneath you.

I guess you are a bit late to the party. With much to say for someone late to the party. We have entertained countless scenarios...and yes, I have paid close attention and given thought to all. As I will do with yours. Manning and Brady have done this for a VERY long time. They have dealt with the media, they have dealt with stardom, they have dealt with countless endorsement obligations and have teams of publicists and assistants that carry a lot of the load for them. They understand the dynamics of pace.

Kaep is playing for a team that has a bunch of titles. Of course he feels pressure but I wouldn't think along the lines of Wilson. he is carrying the weight of this city on his back and has been forced to do so without a line that remotely resembles Kaep's. Unsure how much you know about football, but do take notice how much more pressure Wilson is under than Kaep...who sometimes has an eternity in the pocket.

FYI, I wasn't given anyone with any common sense the "brush off". If you feel you got the "brush off", well, common sense is none too common, is it?

When I decide to post is not relevant to what I have to say. You are brushing me off. Then you insinuate that I have no common sense. How clever.

I didn't know I was required to pass some test that measured my knowledge of football in order to post here. Nonetheless, I believe my knowledge is quite sufficient in order to form and express an opinion. Yes, I noticed that Wilson is under more pressure this year than last. I would hypothesize and submit that it may in part be due to the fact that at the end of last year he was a far more mobile QB, utilizing the read option or rolling out to his right to take advantage of his mobility and to get LB's that were just sitting back and spying him to commit to either run or coverage. Now that he is sitting back in the pocket more (again, I don't have numbers to bear this out, just the eyeball test) LB's or safeties are less apt to "get caught looking" or even taking a step in the wrong direction and DE's can focus more on going for a sack instead of having to honor their containment assignments. In short our offense is getting easier to scheme for and starting to be less explosive and unpredictable, resulting in more 3 and outs. Maybe Pete and Darrell were counting on Percy being the X factor and confusing defenses, allowing Wilson to be more of a pocket passer and keeping him from taking unnecessary hits. Perhaps, just perhaps Darrell and Pete have not made an adjustment from this way of thinking with Harvin being a non-factor all season long. Stay the Course, if you will, even when the conditions changed.

And I would like to re-iterate:
Screen passes!

[Anthony]

When I decide to post is not relevant to what I have to say. You are brushing me off. Then you insinuate that I have no common sense. How clever.

I didn't know I was required to pass some test that measured my knowledge of football in order to post here. Nonetheless, I believe my knowledge is quite sufficient in order to form and express an opinion. Yes, I noticed that Wilson is under more pressure this year than last. I would hypothesize and submit that it may in part be due to the fact that at the end of last year he was a far more mobile QB, utilizing the read option or rolling out to his right to take advantage of his mobility and to get LB's that were just sitting back and spying him to commit to either run or coverage. Now that he is sitting back in the pocket more (again, I don't have numbers to bear this out, just the eyeball test) LB's or safeties are less apt to "get caught looking" or even taking a step in the wrong direction and DE's can focus more on going for a sack instead of having to honor their containment assignments. In short our offense is getting easier to scheme for and starting to be less explosive and unpredictable, resulting in more 3 and outs. Maybe Pete and Darrell were counting on Percy being the X factor and confusing defenses, allowing Wilson to be more of a pocket passer and keeping him from taking unnecessary hits. Perhaps, just perhaps Darrell and Pete have not made an adjustment from this way of thinking with Harvin being a non-factor all season long. Stay the Course, if you will, even when the conditions changed.

And I would like to re-iterate:
Screen passes!

So basically uou are saying our Wr cannot get open unless Rw scrambles and makes the defenses pay attention to him and not the WR. Then we need new WRs

[THX-1138]

When I decide to post is not relevant to what I have to say. You are brushing me off. Then you insinuate that I have no common sense. How clever.

I didn't know I was required to pass some test that measured my knowledge of football in order to post here. Nonetheless, I believe my knowledge is quite sufficient in order to form and express an opinion. Yes, I noticed that Wilson is under more pressure this year than last. I would hypothesize and submit that it may in part be due to the fact that at the end of last year he was a far more mobile QB, utilizing the read option or rolling out to his right to take advantage of his mobility and to get LB's that were just sitting back and spying him to commit to either run or coverage. Now that he is sitting back in the pocket more (again, I don't have numbers to bear this out, just the eyeball test) LB's or safeties are less apt to "get caught looking" or even taking a step in the wrong direction and DE's can focus more on going for a sack instead of having to honor their containment assignments. In short our offense is getting easier to scheme for and starting to be less explosive and unpredictable, resulting in more 3 and outs. Maybe Pete and Darrell were counting on Percy being the X factor and confusing defenses, allowing Wilson to be more of a pocket passer and keeping him from taking unnecessary hits. Perhaps, just perhaps Darrell and Pete have not made an adjustment from this way of thinking with Harvin being a non-factor all season long. Stay the Course, if you will, even when the conditions changed.

And I would like to re-iterate:
Screen passes!

So basically uou are saying our Wr cannot get open unless Rw scrambles and makes the defenses pay attention to him and not the WR. Then we need new WRs

Umm.....no. I'm not saying that at all. In any way or fashion. I didn't even use the abbreviation "WR" or the words "wide receivers". The discussion I was engaged in had to do more with a perceived change in the style of play calling and whether or not RW was fatigued. That, and I felt the need, justified or not, to defend my position in regards to HawkWow's veiled assertion that I may not possess the requisite football acumen in order to participate in the discussion.

The wide receiver's ability to get open has little to do with what RW is doing (by and large). A QB can throw a receiver open, certainly, but part of the point I was making had to do with the predictability of play at the QB position and how it relates to the plays called. And vice versa. I'll try to be more clear next time. Sorry for any confusion.

Upon edit: I do agree that we may need some new WR's. It might be a consideration in the off-season. I don't think Rice will be back. And Tate is probably going to demand more money than he is worth. And who knows about Harvin. That leaves us with Baldwin and Kearse. Not exactly making the rest of the league's DB's lose sleep.

[HawkWow]

I maintain Wilson is fatigued and Bevell and Pete are seeing this in practice. I mean no offense, but it's a bit absurd, IMO, to think we are smarter than those guys and that they are intentionally holding Wilson back even though he is capable of much more. Why would they engage in such lunacy?

Dude, it's his philosophy. You may think of it as lunacy if you like, but they engage in it, because they hate turnovers.

I'm curious, do you know about the Fieldgulls website? .
It's not just there either, it's in virtually every press conference, and interview that Pete and Darrell do, if you know how to read between the lines of what they are saying. They straight up TELL YOU that they are intentionally putting a governor on the offense, so as not to make turnovers. .

I pay very little attention to coach speak. But I will this time, since you've urged me to do so. Referring to the underlined statement above...you were able to determine there is zero chance RW is fatigued based on Pete's proclamation that they are playing conservative to limit turnovers? If anything, I think you add to my point with that statement.

I will ask the question again...in Wilson's rookie campaign, Bevell and Pete called a less conservative game than they are now calling with the more proven, more experienced, RW. Unless there is a good reason for this change, yes, going away from RW's strengths would be lunacy. The coaches also like to say "we play like we practice". Is it not a possibility things just might not be going so well in practice?

Eagle and a couple other posters ask some great questions in this thread. One that sticks out for me) Why are we so infrequently going down the seam? Could it have anything to do with RW's desire to almost immediately abandon the pocket as of late?

And one more note on this concept of playing "conservative". This is being said too frequently like it's odd or totally undesirable. How many coaches do not call a rather conservative game? You don't see too many Jack Pateras these days and probably all would like to play conservative to reduce turn-overs. The thing is, their definitions of the word vary dependent on their team strengths....their QB in particular. If Manning throws the ball 40 x, but does so at 5 yards per throw, he and Fox may consider that conservative....even though they threw 30% more than they ran.

I've said this countless times now, but will say it again: I believe in RW and I believe in this team and it's staff. Certain modifications have been made in recent weeks and regardless of the reason, I believe we will be champions this year and next year will be better than this year. Please don't be so offended by the F-word (fatigue)...it's not like I'm calling Wilson a bum. I said I think he is wearing down. Should I have consulted an attorney before expressing this belief? Can't understand why that statement requires hours and hours of defensive debate. If I'm wrong..I'm wrong but look forward to your (better) explanations on why we've changed past winning strategies. Aside from one day of bad weather, Why did we suddenly eliminate so many plays from RW's once vast arsenal?

[HumanCockroach]

Everyone is wearing down, including but not limited to Brady, Wilson, Manning, and Kaepernick, the problem people are having is not that he is wearing down ( he should be, as ALL QB's do after this time, no matter how much you attempt to insist otherwise), but you are NOT saying Wilson is dealing with the rigors of an NFL season, you are pushing some "fatigue" theory and claiming others aren't having the same issues. Providing no type of observation or fact to back it up other than you have trained with some boxers, and all the while protecting your posts with a " I never said for sure he was", backup plan.

As YOU said in your OWN post, Wilson has DONE this before, there is no evidence that he is fatigued other than a theory you pulled out of your own arse, all the while pointing towards others you wish Wilson was more like. You claiming fatigue at this point is like me claiming fatigue made Manning lose all those one and done appearances.

Silly.

[RiverDog]

Is Russell fatigued? Given that we're in Week 19 of a very long season, I suppose everyone that has played in every game as he has is to one degree or another, fatigued. Is it affecting his play? I see no evidence of it. His numbers have taken a dip, but I'm not ready to attribute it to his being tired.

Is our offense too conservative? In my opinion, no, at least not last Saturday. We were up by two touchdowns on a cold, wet, and very windy day, Harvin was knocked out early, Beast was running the ball well, and we had the best defense in the league playing in front of the biggest home field advantage in the league. So what's wrong with being conservative? Lots of teams have lost games like last Saturday's by getting cute or greedy. I'm glad we weren't one of them.

[Eaglehawk]

Don't be sorry no matter the results this was a great post and I think hit the nail on the head.

Anthony, thanks brotha. As you said, with our current offense, we may struggle against the NIners. If they open things up with some screens, etc. just small stuff(he doesn't need to be Johnny Unitas), I can see RW getting into rhythm and in combination with Lynch we will be unstoppable.

[HawkWow]

Is Russell fatigued? Given that we're in Week 19 of a very long season, I suppose everyone that has played in every game as he has is to one degree or another, fatigued. Is it affecting his play? I see no evidence of it. His numbers have taken a dip, but I'm not ready to attribute it to his being tired.

Is our offense too conservative? In my opinion, no, at least not last Saturday. We were up by two touchdowns on a cold, wet, and very windy day, Harvin was knocked out early, Beast was running the ball well, and we had the best defense in the league playing in front of the biggest home field advantage in the league. So what's wrong with being conservative? Lots of teams have lost games like last Saturday's by getting cute or greedy. I'm glad we weren't one of them.

I didn't have a problem with Saturday either. It's easy to not focus on such things after a victory. But just as you point out teams lose games like Saturdays by getting cute / greedy, teams also lose by not stomping the throats of the opponent when given the chance. Saturday's game is a great example of this. No, I was never concerned we might lose. Not even after the onside kick recovery, but teams lose frequently by not putting teams away when that team is ripe for being put away. I thought we backed off too early vs. Indy. That game we lost. This is all just talk in anticipation of the next big game. Whether the playbook has been dummied down, for one reason or another will be immaterial. Whether Wilson was fatigued will be immaterial. I think the book will be as open as it needs to be Sunday and Wilson will be fresh as there shouldn't be a ton of prep for this game...we know each other very well and I hope Pete is giving equal parts rest and work to the team, this week. 27-17 Hawks.

[Eaglehawk]

Is Russell fatigued? Given that we're in Week 19 of a very long season, I suppose everyone that has played in every game as he has is to one degree or another, fatigued. Is it affecting his play? I see no evidence of it. His numbers have taken a dip, but I'm not ready to attribute it to his being tired.

Is our offense too conservative? In my opinion, no, at least not last Saturday. We were up by two touchdowns on a cold, wet, and very windy day, Harvin was knocked out early, Beast was running the ball well, and we had the best defense in the league playing in front of the biggest home field advantage in the league. So what's wrong with being conservative? Lots of teams have lost games like last Saturday's by getting cute or greedy. I'm glad we weren't one of them.

As to last Saturday. Agreed.

[monkey]

. Referring to the underlined statement above...you were able to determine there is zero chance RW is fatigued based on Pete's proclamation that they are playing conservative to limit turnovers? If anything, I think you add to my point with that statement.

I will ask the question again...in Wilson's rookie campaign, Bevell and Pete called a less conservative game than they are now calling with the more proven, more experienced, RW.

Look I'm not trying to sound argumentative with you, that's not my intent right now.
I do have to say though, I disagree completely with the above statement.
In Wilson's rookie season, it wasn't really until the Patriots game where Bevell FINALLY relaxed a little and let Wilson cut loose a bit. Do you remember how so many fans were clamouring for Matt Flynn? Remember why?
I'm thinking you have a bit of revisionist history going on there myself, there's no way that you are remembering accurately if you think we were any less conservative last season!

For the record though I did not say that there is zero chance that he's fatigued. There's always a chance.
There's also a chance that he has hemorrhoids and they are affecting his play. Maybe he has amnesia and he's forgotten how to play...there's a chance! Or maybe, he's been kidnapped by aliens and replaced, and what we are now seeing is some alien replicant...it's possible!

The point is, I see no evidence that he's any more fatigued than anyone else.

[HawkWow]

. Referring to the underlined statement above...you were able to determine there is zero chance RW is fatigued based on Pete's proclamation that they are playing conservative to limit turnovers? If anything, I think you add to my point with that statement.

I will ask the question again...in Wilson's rookie campaign, Bevell and Pete called a less conservative game than they are now calling with the more proven, more experienced, RW.

Look I'm not trying to sound argumentative with you, that's not my intent right now.
I do have to say though, I disagree completely with the above statement.
In Wilson's rookie season, it wasn't really until the Patriots game where Bevell FINALLY relaxed a little and let Wilson cut loose a bit. Do you remember how so many fans were clamouring for Matt Flynn? Remember why?
I'm thinking you have a bit of revisionist history going on there myself, there's no way that you are remembering accurately if you think we were any less conservative last season!

For the record though I did not say that there is zero chance that he's fatigued. There's always a chance.
There's also a chance that he has hemorrhoids and they are affecting his play. Maybe he has amnesia and he's forgotten how to play...there's a chance! Or maybe, he's been kidnapped by aliens and replaced, and what we are now seeing is some alien replicant...it's possible!

The point is, I see no evidence that he's any more fatigued than anyone else.

Christ. I feel like I am on candid camera or something. WTH does Bevell holding Wilson back in his first few games of his rookie season have to do with right now? Unless you are saying Wilson has reverted back to that period and Bevell is no longer "relaxed" about turning him loose?

You can think whatever you'd like about me. WTH have a I "revisited"? I am speaking in the now, you're the one that went back to last year. I am glad you disagree with everything I say, Monkee. if you didn't, I'd consider myself quite stupid.

[Distant Relative]

This here thread will be fun to visit after about 7 pm this Sunday.

[Hawkstar]

This here thread will be fun to visit after about 7 pm this Sunday.

+1

[HumanCockroach]

No stupid would be pulling out some made up drivel without acknowledging the circumstances surrounding the problem, or I guess insulting a long term well respected member of this board by calling them stupid, oops, check, check you have covered both.

Jack is dead, long live Jack.....

[Eaglehawk]

This here thread will be fun to visit after about 7 pm this Sunday.

+1

+2

[NorthHawk]

Ok, let's try this again.
Edit: didn't work.

Seattle Drive Summaries
START QTR POSS. YARD PLAYS YARDS RESULT
13:39 1 03:20 NO 40 6 20 Field Goal
05:03 1 04:26 SEA 35 9 34 Field Goal
14:51 2 00:34 NO 24 2 24 Touchdown
13:06 2 04:12 SEA 7 6 21 Punt
06:02 2 04:44 SEA 29 12 63 Field Goal
15:00 3 01:34 SEA 20 3 6 Punt
09:59 3 03:37 SEA 6 6 15 Punt
04:13 3 01:35 SEA 44 3 4 Punt
13:11 4 02:39 SEA 31 5 19 Punt
07:09 4 01:38 SEA 20 3 8 Punt
03:51 4 01:11 SEA 38 4 62 Touchdown

[Anthony]

Ok, let's try this again.
Edit: didn't work.

Seattle Drive Summaries
START QTR POSS. YARD PLAYS YARDS RESULT
13:39 1 03:20 NO 40 6 20 Field Goal
05:03 1 04:26 SEA 35 9 34 Field Goal
14:51 2 00:34 NO 24 2 24 Touchdown
13:06 2 04:12 SEA 7 6 21 Punt
06:02 2 04:44 SEA 29 12 63 Field Goal
15:00 3 01:34 SEA 20 3 6 Punt
09:59 3 03:37 SEA 6 6 15 Punt
04:13 3 01:35 SEA 44 3 4 Punt
13:11 4 02:39 SEA 31 5 19 Punt
07:09 4 01:38 SEA 20 3 8 Punt
03:51 4 01:11 SEA 38 4 62 Touchdown

Hey NorthHawk not wanting to seem dense but what were you trying to show here? I mean I know what it tells me, but what were you trying to say

[monkey]

Christ. I feel like I am on candid camera or something. WTH does Bevell holding Wilson back in his first few games of his rookie season have to do with right now?


You can think whatever you'd like about me. WTH have a I "revisited"? I am speaking in the now, you're the one that went back to last year. I am glad you disagree with everything I say, Monkee. if you didn't, I'd consider myself quite stupid.

Wow is an appropriate name for you. You're the one that made the initial comparison when you said,

in Wilson's rookie campaign, Bevell and Pete called a less conservative game than they are now calling with the more proven, more experienced, RW.

Seriously the tap dance you're doing to try and prove that Russell Wilson is fatigued, when there is quite literally zero evidence of it, makes me say WOW!
When someone points out where something that you said doesn't make sense, you tap dance away and change the subject, or change the parameters of the debate, or change what you claim you meant, or change etc...

All I can say is, WOW! That's quite the tap dance you are doing in order to avoid admitting you said something that just has no evidence for it.
If you want the candid camera feeling to stop, and everyone to stop jumping your case, just man up and admit that what you said about Wilson being fatigued, has no supporting evidence. Call it what it was, pure speculation and nothing more, and people will leave it alone.
You have the right to speculate as much as anyone else after all.
You have the right to your own opinion, but you don't have the right to your own facts, and you've tried to present your purely speculative statement, as fact based...and it's not. That's why everyone is jumping your case.

[NorthHawk]

Ok, let's try this again.
Edit: didn't work.

Seattle Drive Summaries
START QTR POSS. YARD PLAYS YARDS RESULT
13:39 1 03:20 NO 40 6 20 Field Goal
05:03 1 04:26 SEA 35 9 34 Field Goal
14:51 2 00:34 NO 24 2 24 Touchdown
13:06 2 04:12 SEA 7 6 21 Punt
06:02 2 04:44 SEA 29 12 63 Field Goal
15:00 3 01:34 SEA 20 3 6 Punt
09:59 3 03:37 SEA 6 6 15 Punt
04:13 3 01:35 SEA 44 3 4 Punt
13:11 4 02:39 SEA 31 5 19 Punt
07:09 4 01:38 SEA 20 3 8 Punt
03:51 4 01:11 SEA 38 4 62 Touchdown

Hey NorthHawk not wanting to seem dense but what were you trying to show here? I mean I know what it tells me, but what were you trying to say

Sorry, I think I entered this in the wrong thread.
I was trying to use the coding to get the proper formatting.