Offensive line shakeup

[RiverDog]

Didn't we have Britt penciled in to replace Okung at LT next year?

[NorthHawk]

Didn't we have Britt penciled in to replace Okung at LT next year?

I never heard that, but he did play LT in college, so maybe.
I'm more worried about this year than replacing Okung - if he does move on in FA next year.
It's early yet, but there are limited practice hours to get thing on track.

[monkey]

Didn't we have Britt penciled in to replace Okung at LT next year?

No, actually Cable has never talked about him playing LT.
Cable specifically mentioned that he could potentially play any of guard, Center or RT, but never LT. I remember reading Cable quotes and making the mental note that he specifically did not say anything about LT.

IMO this move makes a lot of sense as Britt is the type of blocker who WANTS contact (at heart he's still a wrestler), whereas Gilliam has quicker feet (used to play TE). We'll see if this actually works, but on paper it makes a ton of sense, plus could end up upgrading LG immensely, especially in run blocking. Even if Gilliam is basically a wash at RT, the move makes a lot of sense, and don't be surprised if GiIlliam ends up looking a lot more natural at RT than Britt, again, because of his quicker feet.

[mykc14]

To me this confirms exactly what we all saw on Friday, the offensive line struggled. The question is this:

A) Was Britt so bad that they thought he needed to be moved
B) Were the combination of guys we had at LG so bad that they needed to be replaced
C) It was all so bad we need to try something
D) Just an attempt to get the best 5 OL on the field, like Cable said

[NorthHawk]

To me this confirms exactly what we all saw on Friday, the offensive line struggled. The question is this:

A) Was Britt so bad that they thought he needed to be moved
B) Were the combination of guys we had at LG so bad that they needed to be replaced
C) It was all so bad we need to try something
D) Just an attempt to get the best 5 OL on the field, like Cable said

I'll go with:
C) It was all so bad we need to try something

Nobody played well across the OL.

[c_hawkbob]

I think it's A & D. Britt got his arse handed to him at RT (and worse, his initial reaction seemed to be to stand straight up as if to ask himself (now how did that happen" while the play was still live!) and the play at LG has been weak enough, regardless of who's in there, that we needed to get Gilliam in the mix somewhere.

Since Britt's feet seem to be nailed to the turf right now, Gilliam at RT makes more sense (you need your Tackles to move). And perhaps having the security of a Lineman on either side of him will loosen Britt back up some and he'll remember what his feet are for.

[RiverDog]

I probably heard the Britt at LT from an analyst, not from anyone with the Hawks. But it would make sense that he'd be a candidate for the position.

I'm just looking down the road. It's a foregone conclusion that this will be Okung's final year as a Hawk. Even if we wanted to resign him, we're not going to be able to afford what he's most certainly going to get in FA. If we're throwing in the towel on Britt as a tackle, which may or may not be the case, we're going to have an even larger problem to face next season with both OT's to fill as I haven't seen anyone that can truly play the position well. And unless the unthinkable happens, we won't be in a position to draft one unless we move up in the first round, which hasn't been our M.O.

It just seems like our OL situation keeps getting worse and worse. We keep losing decent players (Carpenter, Unger, The Big Russian, Miller) and the ones we're replacing them with aren't as good as the previous incumbent. I have to wonder where the breaking point will be. Or does everyone think we can go on like this indefinitely?

[kalibane]

This is just making me all the more worried about the offensive line and all the more disgruntled over the front office deciding to bypass higher pedigree offensive line talent in favor of raw athletic projects, even if Tom Cable likes those guys.

The pass blocking on Friday was a complete embarrassment, we'll never get to see how good Wilson can be if they keep trotting out lines of this quality. Last year was unacceptable, this year looks even worse. When you find yourself thinking, "I wish we could have found a way to keep James Carpenter" there is a serious problem.

[NorthHawk]

Let's see how they look this week before heading towards the ledge.
The old expression the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts might just fit here if they begin to work together.
Britt looked bad, as did Sweezy, Bailey, and even Okung didn't look that good, either.
Maybe it was JeanPierre's fault for not calling the proper blocking assignments.
There's a lot of blame to go around with that group.
Couple that with a Denver Defense that is pretty good at giving pressure, and you have what we saw last Friday.

What we do know is there isn't much time and limited practices to get their act together.
I hope the coaches are concentrating on the OL and working together rather than spending time on projects who don't even know hand positions and OL angles let alone how to block at a high enough level to play in the NFL.

[kalibane]

I don't think having a negative critique is heading towards the edge. This unit has been an issue for a while and it's just not a good sign when you're mixing and matching positions in training camp especially with a position where there was supposed to be an established starter.

If they start to turn it around I'll give them a positive critique but last week is as bad as we've seen from the O-Line, and Britt in particular we should see some improvement from last year but one game in they are moving him to Guard? I wouldn't feel right giving my honest take considering this has been an ongoing discussion for two years.

I'd really like to see what Wilson can become if he actually has time to set up in the pocket consistently.

[obiken]

It points out what I and a lot of us have said for a long time, Pete's Kryptonite is the OL and the way he has managed it. Peter King of SI is right, our OL is a sieve. We lose an All Pro center, we go after Clark and leave Grassu on the table, sorry panic no, but major concern yeah.

[NorthHawk]

I've been one of the biggest critics of our matador OL blocking schemes and the FO not providing better players for it to improve, but we have to make do with what we have at the moment.
From that PoV, I'm hoping it's largely a coordination thing and not being overwhelmed by superior DLs.
Denvers DL looks like it might be one of the best this year and with Von Miller healthy they will be trouble for every team.

But it was only the first game.
It was a disappointment up front and there is precious little time before the games count, so let's hope they concentrate on making the players that have experience playing OL better before they take valuable time working on transitioning players from DL to OL.
We'll have a better idea this week against the Chiefs who also have some good pass rushers.
Let's hope it doesn't become a case of "Run Russell, Run!".

Edit:
I did see a little bit of Glowinski doing OK last game.
He made some mistakes, but also made some solid plays, so maybe he will be someone to look forward to.

[obiken]

Sorry NH except for VM the Broncos are not the Rams, Steelers, Cowboys, Packers, or the Ravens. We have to face all of these teams. I agree it is what it is at this point, but why make the Britt move now, why not do it in camp.

[NorthHawk]

Sorry NH except for VM the Broncos are not the Rams, Steelers, Cowboys, Packers, or the Ravens. We have to face all of these teams. I agree it is what it is at this point, but why make the Britt move now, why not do it in camp.

I thought we were in camp...
I also think the Broncos with Wade Philips as DC will be much better at pressuring the QB than they have been in the recent past.

[Seahawks4Ever]

Last season we had to use our TE's to chip block to help out Britt, that is ok to do that once in a while but on every pass play is not good. We need our TE's to be running routes most of the time and only blocking occasionaly on pass plays.

We have to admit that the play calling by Darrell Bevell continues to spotty and very predictable. Going into the shot gun formation on first down is just STUPID. All the defense has to do is pin their ears back and destroy the pocket. They have studied all the films, opposing D's know exactly what RW is going to do and where he is going to go when our pocket breaks down.

Better and more imaginative play calling would help a young inexperienced O-line. Who else besides me kept screaming the whole 2nd. half of the SB at the idiotic play calling of Darrell Bevell??? all we needed was ONE TD and we would have wrapped it up, our defense was playing THAT GOOD. But, for most of the 2nd. half we couldn't move the ball because we had got really conservative. When you play not to lose, you don't win. Finally, D.B. opened it up and we should have won, BUT there was one more final and fatal BRAIN FART. I don't buy for a second that it was Pete's call, that pass was Bevell's call and he should have been fired for it.

[obiken]

I thought we were in camp...
I also think the Broncos with Wade Philips as DC will be much better at pressuring the QB than they have been in the recent past.[/quote]

I meant before the 1st exhibition game, sorry.

[HumanCockroach]

Sorry NH except for VM the Broncos are not the Rams, Steelers, Cowboys, Packers, or the Ravens. We have to face all of these teams. I agree it is what it is at this point, but why make the Britt move now, why not do it in camp.

I would take that Bronco defense over any you listed, and the pass rush over several. Kind glossed over some pretty above average pass rushers, guys like Ware... Could have sworn Denver also spent their first round pick on a pure pass rusher this last draft, and I believe they were top five in the NFL last season, maybe I am remembering incorrectly?

[mykc14]

I would take that Bronco defense over any you listed, and the pass rush over several. Kind glossed over some pretty above average pass rushers, guys like Ware... Could have sworn Denver also spent their first round pick on a pure pass rusher this last draft, and I believe they were top five in the NFL last season, maybe I am remembering incorrectly?[/quote]

Yeah Denver D is much better than most people in Seattle realize. They were really good before Manning got there and have been even better since (except, ironically the SB season when their D had a ton of injuries) ranking in the top 3 two of the last 3 years.

[RiverDog]

But it was only the first game

Normally I wouldn't be too concerned as it was only the first game and it was just a preseason game, a glorified scrimmage. But for some reason while watching this game and its jail breaks, I'm not saying to myself "aw, it's just the first game, no biggie" What my inner voice is telling me is "Oh, chit, here we go again!"

[NorthHawk]

I'm trying to mitigate my fears, RD.
Don't ruin my Mo Jo.

[RiverDog]

Like Yogi Berra once said: It's déjà vu all over again.

[c_hawkbob]

déjà vu was a rock band back in the day wasn't it? It seems that I asked this before, at one time. Did I?

Not a band but a very famous album by Crosby, Stills and Nash.

[savvyman]

It looks like it will be necessary as a contestant would have once said on the old Hollywood Squares:

"I will take Jimmy Graham.....TO BLOCK"

[RiverDog]

déjà vu was a rock band back in the day wasn't it? It seems that I asked this before, at one time. Did I?

I thought it was a strip club.

[NorthHawk]

Getting back to the Offensive Line, it's interesting that the NFC West doesn't have a team with a very good or great OL.
The Cards might have the best one, but they lost Iupati for 6-8 weeks, the Rams have been looking to upgrade theirs for years, and the 49ers lost some key players along the line in Davis (for this year, anyway) and Iupati.

That's small consolation, but we aren't alone.
Now to get better results with the players we have...

[burrrton]

Heck, I'll take an o-line that's no better than last year (assuming no drop off in Lynch/RW/etc).

Any improvement will be gravy in my opinion.

[Zorn76]

It's a tiresome topic, but a relevant one.

OL has given up 40+ sacks for a couple of seasons now (at least the last 2). All things considered, it's remarkable how well this offense functions. Beast and RW make it go, and we'll need plenty of that again this year.

[obiken]

Its a tiresome but relevant topic till PC fixes it. I am not happy because we were talking at the beginning of last season, how bad our OL was during the losses. An infant could have seen it. Now we go through FA and the draft, and don't address it? Why? 1. PC is stupid on the issue, 2. he felt other areas are more in need, or 3 he feels RW's mobility will solve all problems. IF its 2 or 3 see #1. IF you cant block your not going anywhere. John Madden.

[RiverDog]

Heck, I'll take an o-line that's no better than last year (assuming no drop off in Lynch/RW/etc).

Any improvement will be gravy in my opinion.

At this point, I can't see any improvement, only regression. But we'll see.

[obiken]

Spot on River, you cant lose and All-Pro Center, do nothing in the off season and say we will do anything but regress. Even 2 years ago the OL was THE problem, now we don't have nearly the reserves we had then.

[c_hawkbob]

As young as our other linemen were last year we will likely see improvement in their play at least. Whether that'll be enough to offset the loss of Max or not remains to be seen, but it wont be just the same as last year minus Unger.

[burrrton]

Spot on River, you cant lose and All-Pro Center, do nothing in the off season and say we will do anything but regress.

Depends how optimistic you are about the team's ability to find/train new talent.

I agree it doesn't look promising at the moment, but we thought the same things about our secondary when Browner, Maxwell, and Thurmond went down or left, didn't we?

It just depends on who steps in.

[NorthHawk]

Its a tiresome but relevant topic till PC fixes it. I am not happy because we were talking at the beginning of last season, how bad our OL was during the losses. An infant could have seen it. Now we go through FA and the draft, and don't address it? Why? 1. PC is stupid on the issue, 2. he felt other areas are more in need, or 3 he feels RW's mobility will solve all problems. IF its 2 or 3 see #1. IF you cant block your not going anywhere. John Madden.

I get the feeling that they think they can break the generally considered rule that Offensive Lines are the engine of the Offense.
I think they are wrong if they think that, but if you look at the trend, they are trying to go cheap up front and spending the money on players that might make explosive plays.
In my mind, it's a bad game plan because when Lynch leaves town or when he hits the magic number for a Running Back, those 100+ broken tackles will turn out to be short gains and punts.
That in turn will put more pressure on Wilson, who won't have the time to pass and the opposing Defenses will know he's the only guy they have to stop.

I suppose it's what we should expect with a Defensive coach. Holmgren didn't bother with the Defense and concentrated on the Offense while Pete seems to concentrate on the Defense and not bother much with the Offense - at least it seems the focus is on Defense first.

[obiken]

Great analysis, I would argue that Holmy was lucky on Defense due to the acquisition of Reggie White, PC was lucky on Offense in the acquisition of his RW.

[NorthHawk]

On the topic of OL improvements, PFT is reporting Evan Mathis is coming for a visit if he isn't signed by another team.

[jshawaii22]

If it matters, the team that represents the 'other' Washington... their OLine is worse than anything we have trotted out for awhile.

js

[RiverDog]

I agree it doesn't look promising at the moment, but we thought the same things about our secondary when Browner, Maxwell, and Thurmond went down or left, didn't we?

It just depends on who steps in.

The defense is different. I call it organic as it heals Thyself. Pete has a way of finding and developing talent on the defensive side of the ball, particularly in the secondary, that fits his system. You can't say that about the offense, or at least not to the same degree.

[obiken]

All Pro Guard, Evan Mathis is coming to town, but he left the Eagles over money. I don't see him signing with us at all. One can only hope.



Adam Schefter
✔ ‎@AdamSchefter
Former Eagles G Evan Mathis scheduled to visit Seahawks on Saturday, but uncertain if he will go, per source. Has interest from other teams.


4:43 PM - 20 Aug 2015



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[monkey]

The only way Seattle could sign him, is if they cut Mebane. Cutting Kearse could get us close, but not likely close enough. They would possibly have to cut both, just to give Mathis a one year deal...I don't see this happening.
Having said all that, Mathis playing approximately 100% snaps at LG for this season, compared to a run stuffing Mebane playing probably 40% snaps at DT? I'd rather cut Mebane!
Don't get me wrong, Mebane is a stud, and I would really hate to lose him, but the guy will not take a pay cut, and the Seahawks need offensive line help...
IMO you run with TY McGill at NT (a downgrade to be sure) on running downs, and plug the leaky hole at LG and call it a day. But I doubt the front office will see it that way.

[c_hawkbob]

I'd love to get Mathis, whatever it takes.