Plenty of Reasons for RW to WANT to leave Seattle

[SalmonBB]

I love Seattle, and I love the Seahawks. The smoked salmon, mountain hiking, and huge rush of emotion during a 12 Flag raising ... all of 'em mash into this conglomeration of perfection that just make me believe it doesn't get any better than what we have in the Pac NW. And I know I'm not alone.

But when it pertains to Russell Wilson and his contract extension in Seattle, I keep hearing an overwhelming sense by everyone an assessment that both the Seahawks and RW want to get this deal done. I've heard some call it "logical" for RW to sign for the 80M for four years supposedly on the table, and several other similar sentiments that assume that RW must think he's in football nirvana - and wants to stay here first and foremost. Yet this is from our own perspective.

How about Russell's?

I'll give several reasons why he may not sign an extension with the Seahawks, and wait out this year - or the next couple in case of a franchise tag situation.
1. He's got some reasons NOT to like Seattle
- scene of his divorce
- part of lockerroom in which an element of it supposedly accused him of not being "black enough," and too buddy-buddy with the coaching staff and F.O.
- maybe, like many Americans, he actually isn't sold on the smoked salmon, mountain hiking, and misty winter afternoons that we personally love.

2. The money
- The Seahawks may be making him a fair deal proposal, as Mike Holmgren alluded to, but on the merit of money, why take what is "fair" when you can get way beyond that by waiting? There are a few teams that I think would jump at the chance to offer RW a 5-6 year contract that would get much closer to what Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers make.
- He's got an insurance policy to cover him during this waiting period
- If the 80M at 4 years is accurate, why not make over half that in 2 yeras with a couple franchise tags, and then strike out in FA to make bigger money? Do the math ... a "fair" deal looks pretty stupid compared to a "what is possible" deal
- And as far as assessments about RW being "greedy," I think that misses the mark. HE HAS GOALS. One of 'em is to own an NFL franchise. To do that, he'll need money.

3. SoCal beckons.
- Whether with the Sandiego Chargers, or L.A. Rams/Chargers/Raiders, there are teams there that would welcome RW. I think the SD/LA Chargers make the most sense, with their current situation with Philip Rivers. I've seen him rated higher than RW in some polls and in some statistical areas, but they seem like they're ready to offload him for a younger prospect. They didn't take anyone in the draft, and they didn't trade Rivers then, either ... as had been posited as a potential move. They could just be waiting for RW to become available in 1, 2, or 3 years.
- A-list friends. Buddies with the Entourage cast. Where do you think they'd prefer to hang out?
- Rock-star girlfriend. L.A. or Seattle? WHich one do you think is more conducive?
- RW spends offseason practice time in San Diego. His place of choice. As he's stated, "not a bad place to be" for his workouts.
- Children's Hospital: RW has been great going to the Seattle Children's hospital, which may cause some to point that out as a reason for him to stay. But he now has connections and has made visits to the one in san Diego. Don't get me wrong ... this is a very GOOD thing.
- His dad tried out for the Chargers. He knows the Chargers fight song. Bottom line ... he seems to have
- Bottom line: he seems to have good memories of - and a fondness for - San Diego.

4. Pete Carroll.
- Pete Carroll likely isn't going to coach for decades beyond now. I know they're saying that human lifespans are projected to get ridiculously long in the not too distant future ... but I can see Pete either hanging it up, or giving it another shot with another team before he does. So Cal, I believe, beckons Pete as well. And here, he could potentially coach RW again, or at least mentor him. If Pete moves to So Cal, it's just another reason for RW to go there.
He's got his eyes on an onother team.

None of these things on their own would probably cause me to think that RW was contemplating an NFL life outside Seattle. But taken together, personally, I think he's moved beyond Seattle already. I think he has a plan. To his great credit, he'll be a great teammate and true-blue Seahawk during his time here, even without a contract extension in place. And just because he has goals, desires, and plans outside Seattle doesn't make him evil or non-commmitted. If and when he leaves, it won't change my opinion of RW as a person. I will, of course, feel a little hurt that he doesn't love Seattle as much as I do.

Hope I'm wrong.

GO SEAHAWKS!!!

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Are you trying to ruin my Sunday morning?

Very thought-provoking analysis, sir. Perhaps they let him play the last year of his contract, then franchise him for one more, maybe two, while the core of the team is still in its prime. Not what I want, but it would still be a heck of ride since he came on board.

[NorthHawk]

The problem with the San Diego theory is there probably won't be a team there for long.
The other theory of wanting to own a team may be correct, but every team has the same Cap, so if he wants so much money that it impinges on that team being successful, then it will happen in ANY NFL city. Some team like the Browns or Buffalo might want him, but would he want to go there if So Cal is in his heart? Would the Chargers or Rams gut their roster to pay for him if they end up there in LA? The Raiders already have a good young QB with a great arm and looks like a leader, so they're probably out of the picture.

As well, no player will make enough money playing to afford a multi billion dollar franchise - as that is what it will probably cost by the time he retires. The best he could probably afford is a small percentage of a team. Even the added money from endorsements won't get him to that point.

I think he's well aware that being defined as the best means the team also has to be successful. I go back to Archie Manning who might have been the best of his era, but he's often overshadowed by those that won championships or often came close.

In the end, your theory might very well be the case, but there are more than a few arguments against it.

[RiverDog]

I agree about Pete, that he'll either retire or move to another team, perhaps back to college. I can't see putting as much heart and soul into a job as Pete does and being able to avoid getting emotionally burned out. He could be a SB 49 casualty and be gone after 2016, or earlier if he decides to go back to the colleges.

Who knows what Russell is thinking. He's as politically correct as any athlete on the planet, will give you nothing more than canned, well crafted generic responses that offends no one and that everyone wants to hear. He's quite a bit more diplomatic than someone like Bruce Irvin.

We'll just have to wait and see, but the longer RW goes unsigned, the more I'll be leaning towards SBB's nightmare scenario.

[Futureite]

Historically great D, probably best back in the NFL, one of the best coaches in the NFL, loudest stadium in the NFL, loyal fanbase and one of the most popular US cities in the NFL. Oh, and he has the 3rd highest contract for a QB in the NFL sitting on the table.

LOL yes, I can see plenty of reasons he'd want to leave.

[Anthony]

Well while I do not believe he is looking to leave there are other reasons he might want to leave

1. go to a team that passes more, with a better oline and wrs corp.
2. go to team were he is not living in the shadow of the defense and Lynch, as long as they are here he will never get the credit he deserves.

These 2 worry me more than all the others.

[Futureite]

Well while I do not believe he is looking to leave there are other reasons he might want to leave

1. go to a team that passes more, with a better oline and wrs corp.
2. go to team were he is not living in the shadow of the defense and Lynch, as long as they are here he will never get the credit he deserves.

These 2 worry me more than all the others.

Those could be valid reasons. If they are though, the entire mantra about him being a selfless player who is entirely concerned with victories and team accomplishments would be invalidated. And the flip side is, if he goes to a team that is more pass oriented, they'll likely nix the RO and other elements of his game that are so effective.

The truth is, at some point Lynch will decline and the D probably will too, and RW will have to take the reigns and do more. I am sure he knows this and the entire organization does as well. So, if he just sits tight he'll get the chance to do everything you're suggesting, and I am 100% certain he believes he can carry the team if need be. I think he'd be nuts to leave.

[RiverDog]

Well while I do not believe he is looking to leave there are other reasons he might want to leave

1. go to a team that passes more, with a better oline and wrs corp.
2. go to team were he is not living in the shadow of the defense and Lynch, as long as they are here he will never get the credit he deserves.

These 2 worry me more than all the others.

I'm not sure that Russell is that unhappy with our style of play or our cast of characters, at least not with regards to their on field performance. I know that if I were a quarterback, I'd much rather play with a back like Beast and a defense like ours than a team like the Chargers or Raiders.

What's more concerning to me is some of the emotional aspects SBB mentioned, ie the desire to start a new life after a bitter divorce (I can speak directly to that sentiment) and the rumors about the locker room discontent, ie the 'not black enough' crapola, brown nosing management, etc.

[Anthony]

I'm not sure that Russell is that unhappy with our style of play or our cast of characters, at least not with regards to their on field performance. I know that if I were a quarterback, I'd much rather play with a back like Beast and a defense like ours than a team like the Chargers or Raiders.

What's more concerning to me is some of the emotional aspects SBB mentioned, ie the desire to start a new life after a bitter divorce (I can speak directly to that sentiment) and the rumors about the locker room discontent, ie the 'not black enough' crapola, brown nosing management, etc.

Lets see play with us with a bottom 10 pass blocking oline and bottom 10 wr corps or go to say Buffalo who has a top 10 defense, top 10 rb, top 15 pass blocking oline and top 12 wr corp? Hmm OS say Houston I can go on, there are teams out there he could go to. I mean you pick to teams that have a QB so he would not go there any way. Or maybe the Rams, I can go on.

He wants to be the best, he will never be considered the best as long as we have Lynch and that #1 defense. All you need to do is read any list on him and it always mentions that great D and Lynch as why he is so good.

I am not saying he wants to leave or will just that I could understand why.

[obiken]

That's it River, if RW leaves it wont shock half of us. Its the why that we will never get that will kill us.

[RiverDog]

Lets see play with us with a bottom 10 pass blocking oline and bottom 10 wr corps or go to say Buffalo who has a top 10 defense, top 10 rb, top 15 pass blocking oline and top 12 wr corp? Hmm OS say Houston I can go on, there are teams out there he could go to. I mean you pick to teams that have a QB so he would not go there any way. Or maybe the Rams, I can go on.

He wants to be the best, he will never be considered the best as long as we have Lynch and that #1 defense. All you need to do is read any list on him and it always mentions that great D and Lynch as why he is so good.

I am not saying he wants to leave or will just that I could understand why.

I don't agree. If Russell wants to be considered to be the best, then the easiest way to do that is to win Lombardi's like Montana did and like Brady did. If his ego is such that the only way to be completely satisfied is to be the best that ever lived, then he needs to go with the team he thinks offers him the best opportunity to get to and win the most Super Bowls. If that's what his personal goals are, then our team is an advantage to him, not a disadvantage.

[kalibane]

You could be talking about any city in the United States and list every thing that other cities all across the country have that "City X" doesn't and the list of why someone would want to live somewhere else will always be longer than the list for the city.

I don't really see the point of this exercise, especially considering none of us knows Wilson's thought process.

[RiverDog]

You could be talking about any city in the United States and list every thing that other cities all across the country have that "City X" doesn't and the list of why someone would want to live somewhere else will always be longer than the list for the city.

I don't really see the point of this exercise, especially considering none of us knows Wilson's thought process.

True, which is why I was phrasing my comments in the context of what I would feel if I were in Russell's situation. And you're right, it is a pointless exercise. But what else do we have to do this time of year?

[kalibane]

Training Camp starts Thursday!!!!!

[Anthony]

I don't agree. If Russell wants to be considered to be the best, then the easiest way to do that is to win Lombardi's like Montana did and like Brady did. If his ego is such that the only way to be completely satisfied is to be the best that ever lived, then he needs to go with the team he thinks offers him the best opportunity to get to and win the most Super Bowls. If that's what his personal goals are, then our team is an advantage to him, not a disadvantage.

Brady is not considered the best just because he has SBs he is also considered the best because the perception is he carries the team, he has thrown for over 4k yards and 30 tds. Montana was a different era so not apples to apples. IF things stayed the way they are now he would be known as a guy who wins with a great defense and running game and he is along for the ride. Heck a lot of our own fans say that.

[SalmonBB]

Training Camp starts Thursday!!!!!

Let's just hope RW's signed to an extension by then. If not, then given the history of this agent he has, we may have lost our chance. But then again, if RW truly desires to go somewhere else, then the whole thing is already history anyways.

GO SEAHAWKS!!!

[Vegaseahawk]

Great thread. I believe RW will qb the next ten years in Seattle. When you work for Paul Allen, there is none higher. I see him as a John Elway, playing his career in Seattle, & moving into business and/or politics. What a great leader he would be in the political field.

[RiverDog]

Brady is not considered the best just because he has SBs he is also considered the best because the perception is he carries the team, he has thrown for over 4k yards and 30 tds. Montana was a different era so not apples to apples. IF things stayed the way they are now he would be known as a guy who wins with a great defense and running game and he is along for the ride. Heck a lot of our own fans say that.

When the comparison is between Brady and Peyton, the Brady camp will always bring up rings in the first sentence of the discussion. It was the same 20 years ago when the comparison was Montana vs. Marino. SB rings/appearances are assigned a higher value than this perception of carrying the team thing you refer to. Taking your team to the SB and winning it is a huge feather in the cap of any quarterback, and not having it will haunt them in any subsequent discussion of all time greats.

[Anthony]

When the comparison is between Brady and Peyton, the Brady camp will always bring up rings in the first sentence of the discussion. It was the same 20 years ago when the comparison was Montana vs. Marino. SB rings/appearances are assigned a higher value than this perception of carrying the team thing you refer to. Taking your team to the SB and winning it is a huge feather in the cap of any quarterback, and not having it will haunt them in any subsequent discussion of all time greats.

When people are comparing Brady and Manning they are comparing guys who have both thrown over 4k yards over 30 tds so using SBs as the tie breaker makes sense. Right now when people talk about comparing Luck and WIlson they automatically say luck carries his team, throws for more yards ant TDs and when the Sb get brought up its always he is long for the ride any QB could win with that Defense and RB.

[RiverDog]

When people are comparing Brady and Manning they are comparing guys who have both thrown over 4k yards over 30 tds so using SBs as the tie breaker makes sense. Right now when people talk about comparing Luck and WIlson they automatically say luck carries his team, throws for more yards ant TDs and when the Sb get brought up its always he is long for the ride any QB could win with that Defense and RB.

But by the same token, Luck's critics can counter with the fact that he can't win the big one. John Elway had some huge criticism he had to endure before he won his first Lombardi late in his career.

[SalmonBB]

I can also think of plenty of times when RW carried the team. He's not carrying it week in and week out, per se, because we have a great team. But RW seems like the one they turn to when the offensive game plan goes out the door and nothing else seems to work. There's a great video clip, I think it was vs. San Fran, or maybe Tampa, where Marshawn tells Russell something like "Russ, you gotta' take this on your shoulders." Something like that. Anyway, recognition from Beastmode that when all else is failing, he trusts RW to et 'em out of it.

Plus, I gotta' say ... Brady carrying his team? Brady gets pretty good protection year to year, from what I can tell. And its not like his receivers or running backs are bottom-of-the-barrell, either. New England has had a solid TEAM for years now. The real test for Brady - or any QB - would be to place him in Cleveland. Regardless, he's HOF material. And I think RW will be one day as well ... hopefully as a Seahawk.

GO SEAHAWKS!!!

[Anthony]

But by the same token, Luck's critics can counter with the fact that he can't win the big one. John Elway had some huge criticism he had to endure before he won his first Lombardi late in his career.

They could but they do not they say that is because he does not have enough around him

[Anthony]

I can also think of plenty of times when RW carried the team. He's not carrying it week in and week out, per se, because we have a great team. But RW seems like the one they turn to when the offensive game plan goes out the door and nothing else seems to work. There's a great video clip, I think it was vs. San Fran, or maybe Tampa, where Marshawn tells Russell something like "Russ, you gotta' take this on your shoulders." Something like that. Anyway, recognition from Beastmode that when all else is failing, he trusts RW to et 'em out of it.

Plus, I gotta' say ... Brady carrying his team? Brady gets pretty good protection year to year, from what I can tell. And its not like his receivers or running backs are bottom-of-the-barrell, either. New England has had a solid TEAM for years now. The real test for Brady - or any QB - would be to place him in Cleveland. Regardless, he's HOF material. And I think RW will be one day as well ... hopefully as a Seahawk.

GO SEAHAWKS!!!

I am not disagreeing with you but the perception is he carries the team, while Wilson does not.

[Futureite]

I can also think of plenty of times when RW carried the team. He's not carrying it week in and week out, per se, because we have a great team. But RW seems like the one they turn to when the offensive game plan goes out the door and nothing else seems to work. There's a great video clip, I think it was vs. San Fran, or maybe Tampa, where Marshawn tells Russell something like "Russ, you gotta' take this on your shoulders." Something like that. Anyway, recognition from Beastmode that when all else is failing, he trusts RW to et 'em out of it.

Plus, I gotta' say ... Brady carrying his team? Brady gets pretty good protection year to year, from what I can tell. And its not like his receivers or running backs are bottom-of-the-barrell, either. New England has had a solid TEAM for years now. The real test for Brady - or any QB - would be to place him in Cleveland. Regardless, he's HOF material. And I think RW will be one day as well ... hopefully as a Seahawk.

GO SEAHAWKS!!!

Brady's receivers are terrible. Cmon. The best one of them was Edelman, a converted mid major QB. He does have a great TE, but hard to argue much else. And the only yr he did have bigtime weapons, he threw 50 TDs and led the best O on history at that time. He us an example of what I always talk about with big stats; a great QB can game manage OR put up big numbers over an entire season, game in and game out. There are only a handful of those guys in the NFL today. The "stats aee for losers" or "volume" argument applies to guys that put up big numbers but in general, do not even lead their teams to winning a div (Cutler, Stafford, etc).

[burrrton]

So are "stats are for losers" arguments only stupid when supporting a QB and not denigrating him? Asking for a friend...

[Futureite]

So are "stats are for losers" arguments only stupid when supporting a QB and not denigrating him? Asking for a friend...

Not sure what you mean but it's obvious that certain QBs run an entire O by themselves, put up big numbers and win yr after yr. Examples: Luck, Rodgers, Manning, Brady, Brees. Anyone of those guys can play a smart game to win if need be and carry a team over a full season

Then there are a number of QBs who can put up big numbers but lose plenty of games for their teams in the process - Cutler, Stafford, Newton YR 1, possibly Romo (though I'd put him in class #1). Still good QBs but their numbers "can" be inflated.

Problem is, you want to assume any QB with some level of talent automatically falls into group 1 "if given enough chances". It's ridiculous and not even remotely close to the truth.

[RiverDog]

They could but they do not they say that is because he (Luck) does not have enough around him

So then he really isn't carrying his team, is he?

You're running around in circles, Anthony.

[burrrton]

Not sure what you mean but it's obvious...

Translation: Eye Test™. Too easy.

Thanks, Future- I literally laughed out loud.

[politicalfootball]

Wilson may also want to be a major league baseball player

[Futureite]

Burrrton;

Not an eye test. I quantified the diff with Ws and Ls. If a QB is putting up big numbers and winning, he is obviously successful and no one can argue what he does can be duplicated by any QB given enough chances. If that were true, we'd have 32 elite QBs.

You can however use a Josh McCown type example though for that volume argument, because some QBs like him have put up numbers primarily because of the volume of throws he had on a bad team. It's not too hard to discern between the former snd the latter.

In RW's case, it's all conjecture until he actually gets a chance to be that type of QB for 16 games. So, we may never know.

[NorthHawk]

That plays into the argument that he wants to leave because the Offense is restricting him from showing his full range of abilities.

I heard an analytics guy on NFL Radio yesterday talking about Wilson and his stats show he is ranked 30th in 0 - 10 yard passes and 23rd in 10 - 20 yard passes.
As well he's pretty low in the rankings when pressured.

To me this shows why stats are a dangerous thing as it doesn't take into account the players surrounding him including our matador OL pass blocking schemes and no real #1 WR to stretch the Defense. I would think with Graham now in the mix his short yardage stats will improve considerably.

[Anthony]

You're running around in circles, Anthony.

Dude no you are being a smart A$$ as you know exactly what I am saying and what the experts say.

[burrrton]

Not an eye test.

Yeah it was. You selectively include or exclude criteria to back up what you find "obvious" instead of finding obvious what all the criteria tell you.

That's your Eye Test™. Just own it. It's kinda funny now.

[Futureite]

Well my selective criteria says all the guys I referenced in tier 1 were either NFL MVPs or strong candidates (and Luck is next) and all have had huge numbers. And each of their teams won, despite salary cap issues, guttings or yrs in which most of them stepped onto a team that was previously crap before.

All the guys I referenced in tier 2 have been backups ir traded and their teams have had multiple losing seasons, DESPITE the fact that THEY ALSO put up big numbers.

The BS you are trying to push is that all stats are fluff, easy to attain and do not correlate to wins. I just shot that out of the water, so drop the eye test crap. If you can't see the difference then your own eyes are the problem.

[SalmonBB]

... and RW still has not signed. Just a few more hours. After that, we can start talking about the $25M he'll get for 2016, and who will take the spot in 2017.

GO SEAHAWKS!!!

[burrrton]

The BS you are trying to push is that all stats are fluff, easy to attain and do not correlate to wins. I just shot that out of the water, so drop the eye test crap.

LOL. No, Future. I have never made that argument, and never would, so that's *not* what I'm doing. You haven't "shot* anything, down or otherwise, kimosabe.

You're the one that takes wins into account, or doesn't take them into account, or does or doesn't take stats into account, based on what you find "obvious".

I, on the other hand, prefer to take wins, losses, and stats into account and let them tell *me* what's "obvious".

If you can't see the difference then your own eyes are the problem.

Money quote.

[SalmonBB]

Glad I got this one wrong! I'll tuck it away in the paranoia files. Great news today with RW's extension!

GO SEAHAWKS!!!

[jshawaii22]

Evidently, there are at least 60 million reasons not to leave.

[RiverDog]

Dude no you are being a smart A$$ as you know exactly what I am saying and what the experts say.

No, I'm not being a smart A$$. I am simply reading back to you what you have written.

If Andrew Luck 'carries' his team, then why does he need more people around him? Seems like an oxymoron to me. He carries his team but he needs more people around him?

[Futureite]

River;

If Andrew Luck isn't the one carrying them, who is? Trent Richardson and Boom Herron? The D that gave up 58 pts to the Steelers? In this case, I'd love to see how much of a "weapon" Ty Hilton, 34 yr old Reggie Wayne, and Colby Fleener look without Andrew Luck. Be honest - these are not great players. And Seattle has aruabely had equal if not better talent with Golden Tate, Percy Harvin, Zach Miller et al. If Tate put up 99 rec and almost 1,400 yds with Srafford, I am sure he'd look at least as good as TY has with Luck.