More Wilson Contract stuff

[NorthHawk]

Really?

Mike Florio is who you guys are throwing your lot in with?

That's almost as bad as deciding to go with Skippy Brainless' take on things ...

It's just talk about possibilities that may turn out to be real.
It won't get serious until the bill comes due next year.

[Anthony]

So it is funny I am relistening again to what Jason said and he reiterates he was not told his by Wilson or his agent, and all he really has is that fact his agent did not deny it. Last I checked that is not something he should deny given they are still negotiating. Add to that Wilsons agent already went on record saying you cannot believe 90% of what the media is saying what more does he need to say. In the end we do not know anything.

[HumanCockroach]

So now that it isn't the FO slowing down negotiations, or "disrespecting" Wilson we don't know anything, but we did before?

Got it....

5 yrs/ 105 million isn't disrespectful or an insult, period.

[Anthony]

So now that it isn't the FO slowing down negotiations, or "disrespecting" Wilson we don't know anything, but we did before?

Got it....

5 yrs/ 105 million isn't disrespectful or an insult, period.

Ahh we still do not know if the FO is slowing it down or disrespecting Wilson, what part of not knowing anything did you miss. Even your 5 year 105 mil which I have not seen is still only a guess since no one that would know said that was offered.

[jshawaii22]

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=13154831

Now it's John Clayton's turn. It's a lot more then PFT. Not saying it's true. I actually thought he wanted a lot more, like 6 @ $150 w/100m guaranteed.

We can only hope they are this close with a year to work it out.

[Zorn76]

The sooner the better, obviously, because both sides need piece of mind before the regular season starts.

An interesting bit in Clayton's take is that RW's agent doesn't want his client's contract to be "outdated" too soon, meaning that it could be noticeably less than Luck's, for example, whenever he does his deal.

I think he's grasping at straws a little there, but, whatever.

I also think that letting Wilson play out this year at 1.5 mil would be a mistake. You could argue that he's already earned the mega millions contract he has coming, and then some.

If there ever was an exception to this F.O.'s rule, it's our QB.

[RiverDog]

The sooner the better, obviously, because both sides need piece of mind before the regular season starts.

An interesting bit in Clayton's take is that RW's agent doesn't want his client's contract to be "outdated" too soon, meaning that it could be noticeably less than Luck's, for example, whenever he does his deal.
'
I think he's grasping at straws a little there, but, whatever.

I also think that letting Wilson play out this year at 1.5 mil would be a mistake. You could argue that he's already earned the mega millions contract he has coming, and then some.

If there ever was an exception to this F.O.'s rule, it's our QB.

Nice to see you posting again, Zorny! I always worry about posters that suddenly drop out for no apparent reason.

I don't agree with paying a player for past performances. That was the mistake we made when we resigned Shaun Alexander. You resign them based on what you think they can provide for you in the future. But in Russell's case, his past performance is not that much different from what we could reasonably expect in the future.

[NorthHawk]

The sooner the better, obviously, because both sides need piece of mind before the regular season starts.

An interesting bit in Clayton's take is that RW's agent doesn't want his client's contract to be "outdated" too soon, meaning that it could be noticeably less than Luck's, for example, whenever he does his deal.

I think he's grasping at straws a little there, but, whatever.

I also think that letting Wilson play out this year at 1.5 mil would be a mistake. You could argue that he's already earned the mega millions contract he has coming, and then some.

If there ever was an exception to this F.O.'s rule, it's our QB.

We don't know if Wilson has decided to gamble and play out his current contract regardless of the offer.
His agent's comments about the outdated contract might mean they want to take the guaranteed $25 million a year (or thereabouts) FA tender next year and then sign after that thus ensuring he gets the latest QB price and something close to Andrew Luck. The following year would be about $40 million so they know that is completely unrealistic.

[NorthHawk]

Having just posted above, I find a statement in PFT that it's the guaranteed part to be put in escrow and Paul Allen doesn't want to write that check.

"It’s become a stumbling block not because of the guarantee itself but because of the league’s funding rule, which requires almost every penny of any future payments guaranteed for skill, injury, and cap to be paid into escrow upon signing."

The article:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... son-talks/

[Anthony]

Having just posted above, I find a statement in PFT that it's the guaranteed part to be put in escrow and Paul Allen doesn't want to write that check.

"It’s become a stumbling block not because of the guarantee itself but because of the league’s funding rule, which requires almost every penny of any future payments guaranteed for skill, injury, and cap to be paid into escrow upon signing."

The article:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... son-talks/

HMMM

[NorthHawk]

I'm not sure I understand the issue with putting money into escrow.
It's not like he isn't going to spend it as part of the Salary Cap in the next few years.

I suppose it's because of the lost opportunity cost that money could have been used for.
Either that or he's considering selling the team and doesn't want to be left holding the bag (however I assume that would be included in any sales contract).

[c_hawkbob]

Having just posted above, I find a statement in PFT that it's the guaranteed part to be put in escrow and Paul Allen doesn't want to write that check.

"It’s become a stumbling block not because of the guarantee itself but because of the league’s funding rule, which requires almost every penny of any future payments guaranteed for skill, injury, and cap to be paid into escrow upon signing."

The article:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... son-talks/

Yeah right, now it's Allen that's the hold up ... on account a him being so short of cash and all.

Florio needs to lay off the peyote.

[NorthHawk]

I have no idea who Florio's sources are, but it's not outside the realm of possibilities.
My guess is like most billionaires, Allen has the majority of his money tied up in other ventures so he would have to make some choices about divest existing assets.
I'm obviously not a billionaire, so I can only guess that he doesn't have approximately $80 million sitting in liquid assets when they could be making a lot more money elsewhere.

[mykc14]

I have no idea who Florio's sources are, but it's not outside the realm of possibilities.
My guess is like most billionaires, Allen has the majority of his money tied up in other ventures so he would have to make some choices about divest existing assets.
I'm obviously not a billionaire, so I can only guess that he doesn't have approximately $80 million sitting in liquid assets when they could be making a lot more money elsewhere.

This is where it makes little to no sense to me. It's not like it is an extra $80 mil that he would be having to liquidize (if he has to liquidize anything), RW's signing bonus was going to be at somewhere around $60 mil anyway, so at the most (I don't think there is any way he is getting $80 mil guaranteed, but lets say he does) its an extra $20 mil. Also, RW certainly is an asset to him as the Hawks are a major money maker and RW will make him that money back with the interest he would lose. I don't know what he would be investing that 80 mil in otherwise but it would be hard to argue that it would be some sort of huge loss on a possible investment, IMO. Florio is grasping at straws here and at least a little part of me thinks his 'sources' just make crap up and laugh at him when he reports it.

[NorthHawk]

It was my statement about $80 million. Even if it's $60 million, I doubt even billionaires have that lying around doing nothing.
They probably have it tied up in investments that are making some good money.
They aren't successful because they are foolish with a dollar.

[mykc14]

It was my statement about $80 million. Even if it's $60 million, I doubt even billionaires have that lying around doing nothing.
They probably have it tied up in investments that are making some good money.
They aren't successful because they are foolish with a dollar.

Im not disagreeing with that, I'm saying he would have to pay that ($60 mil) no matter what if he wants to keep RW. If you own an NFL team and want to sign a franchise QB thats what its gonna cost and I really doubt the richest owner in the league is going to balk at that. In other words being the smart business man he is he has known for sometime that he is going to have to put at least $50-60 mil in escrow for RW. Also, RW is a good investment for him personally (his team) and his wallet (the Hawks are valued at around 1.5 billion and made over 200 mil last year).

[jshawaii22]

that's not necessarily true. Look at Kaepernicks deal, and you'll see that it's more of year-by-year deal, not 80m or 100m up front to escrow. Now, of course, you may not consider Kap a true top-line QB, but they all don't get those deals.

js

[mykc14]

that's not necessarily true. Look at Kaepernicks deal, and you'll see that it's more of year-by-year deal, not 80m or 100m up front to escrow. Now, of course, you may not consider Kap a true top-line QB, but they all don't get those deals.

js

Atually Kaep had 60 mil in guarantees and all of that had to go into escrow. It's not just the signing bonus or the number of years for the deal its also workout bonuses, roster bonuses, performance incentives, so even though Kaep may not earn all of that 60 mil it all had to go into an escrow account when he signed the contract. Again, I would be completely shocked if Paul Allen hadn't been planning on putting AT LEAST 60 mil in escrow for RW's contract.

[Anthony]

Atually Kaep had 60 mil in guarantees and all of that had to go into escrow. It's not just the signing bonus or the number of years for the deal its also workout bonuses, roster bonuses, performance incentives, so even though Kaep may not earn all of that 60 mil it all had to go into an escrow account when he signed the contract. Again, I would be completely shocked if Paul Allen hadn't been planning on putting AT LEAST 60 mil in escrow for RW's contract.

So long story short if we believe this than the hold up is not Wilson, or PC or JS but Allen. WOW. If this is true the Hawks have screwed themselves. They cannot use the non exclusive tag now. As someone will offer Wilson more guaranteed money than the Hawks according to this are willing to go. So they will not match and he will be gone for nothing. If they do match they then look stupid for not doing it in the first p[lace plus it might cost them even more. So they franchise him and can only do that for 1 year as year 2 of the tag is way to expensive. The message being sent to FOs is not good and you loose your franchise QB. If true this is not good, if true.

[HumanCockroach]

I wouldn't claim two first round picks were "nothing", as for the rest make up your mind, either the info means nothing, or something, when it puts the blame on Wilson for wanting the biggest contract in history, its unreliable, if it puts it on the FO or the owner, its absolutely true. LMAO at all the angst and nervous nellies.

[Anthony]

I wouldn't claim two first round picks were "nothing", as for the rest make up your mind, either the info means nothing, or something, when it puts the blame on Wilson for wanting the biggest contract in history, its unreliable, if it puts it on the FO or the owner, its absolutely true. LMAO at all the angst and nervous nellies.

You should learn to read, I said if it is true and if they do not match like I said they would not they would get nothing. As to the rest again I said if it is true, right now dude you asinine need to ignore what is being said to try to make some point that is not relevant is making you look really bad. "its absolutely true" really what part of "If this is true", great job reading its fundamental.

[NorthHawk]

Would tagging him put the money into escrow with it being one year?
Isn't it just like a signing bonus due at the time the player signs his contract but counts fully under the cap which has to be spent anyway.
As I understand it, escrow is used for future years to ensure the player gets his money.

Can someone please clarify?
Thanks

[Anthony]

Would tagging him put the money into escrow with it being one year?
Isn't it just like a signing bonus due at the time the player signs his contract but counts fully under the cap which has to be spent anyway.
As I understand it, escrow is used for future years to ensure the player gets his money.

Can someone please clarify?
Thanks

No tagging him doe snot as he gets that right away. It is only the guarantees and given the guarantees for Kam, Lynch, Et, And Sherman there is already a lot in there.

Sherman had 40, Okung 9, ET 26, Graham 21, Bennett 16, Lynch 12, KJ 9, Mebane 8. WIliams 7, Baldwin 8.5 and so on, so right now there is well over 156 mil in escrow just on these few players. Of course some of that has been paid so it is probably more like 80 mil. Maybe Allen says enough is enough. Also there is the whole collusion thing, there is a thought that the owners in an attempt to keep salaries down specifically bonuses have agreed not to fund any over a certain amount.

"The Pro Football Talk story adds another element to the story — that owners may be purposely avoiding paying large guarantees to keep the status quo and avoid setting new precedents. Collusion, in other words, writes PFT."

http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seah ... otiations/

we will see but it also depends on what it the truth and what is not and the reality is we do not know at all.

[Anthony]

Another thing to consider at this point is despite the fact no one really knows anything and it is all speculation, many fans have already started turning on Wilson. In several other forums a large percentage of fans as of now would just as soon trade him as sign him, since they have already decided singing him would mean loosing players like ET, Sherman, etc. Even though those players are already signed. Wilson who I think is pretty on top of how he is viewed here is probably not happy, that they would turn on him after everything he has done and do so base don nothing more than assumptions, and guess work. Even this new stuff were the only real issue is the guarantees and its Allen that is the issue has been turned around on Wilson making him to be the bad guy, even though the repost are Allen will not even just 40 mil in guarantees which he did for Sherman he is unwilling to do. However at this point a lot of fans have just decided it is all Wilson fault. In their minds he should have taken the first deal offered even if it was for 10 mil a year, and yes they said that. Listening to the radios it is the same thing more and more people turning on him. IN their minds now any deal he gets is to much, and would cripple the team. On my part I either stay off now, or say well what do you know for a fact is being offered or wanted? the answer is what they heard and again I ask what do you know for a fact. The answer is nothing, but it does not matter. Some even think his teammates are turning on him. This is getting ugly and unfortunately it is the medias doings. Wilsons agent already said 90% of what you hear is not the truth, it is so bad that an article was written saying he wants to be the highest in the game based on his agent not denying it, of course he did not confirm it either but hey the media knows what sells. It amazes me the venom around this given there was none toward Sherman when he was made the highest CQ in the game, or when lynch held us hostage for more money, or ET highest Safety etc. There are some who want us to not sign him get 2 picks and get Jones. They would rather take a gamble then sign a known. They talk about keeping Sherman and ET because they are core players but Wilson is not a core player. In a way the FO might have gotten what they wanted a lot of fans and more every day think any QB will do. The whole thing is pretty pathetic, and shows a lot of guallability, and lack of knowledge of the game. We will see how it plays out but to me neither side is looking to good, and it is getting worse for both, and if collusion is happening and gets proven oh my god.

[HumanCockroach]

You should learn to read, I said if it is true and if they do not match like I said they would not they would get nothing. As to the rest again I said if it is true, right now dude you asinine need to ignore what is being said to try to make some point that is not relevant is making you look really bad. "its absolutely true" really what part of "If this is true", great job reading its fundamental

If Seattle tags him, and does not match, they receive two first round picks, as for the rest, you are absolutely correct, reading ( and writing) are indeed fundamental, you should read the posts you have made on the subject. SMDH.

[c_hawkbob]

Tagged players still get their money in game checks, one game at a time, just like everybody else.

This whole "escrow" element somebody decided to make part of the discussion is just how it's always been done. All fully guaranteed money is put into escrow upon contract signing (less signing bonus' obviously) and then payed out in game checks. It's not like they're reinventing the wheel, the idiots writing and rewriting this particularly story just want to make it seem so as that has become part of the narrative for this one.

All owners in all major sports have the money put away for contracts and operating expenses ahead of time anyway, as a means of drawing interest on that money until the actual point of expenditure if for no other reason.

[NorthHawk]

Tagged players still get their money in game checks, one game at a time, just like everybody else.

This whole "escrow" element somebody decided to make part of the discussion is just how it's always been done. All fully guaranteed money is put into escrow upon contract signing (less signing bonus' obviously) and then payed out in game checks. It's not like they're reinventing the wheel, the idiots writing and rewriting this particularly story just want to make it seem so as that has become part of the narrative for this one.

All owners in all major sports have the money put away for contracts and operating expenses ahead of time anyway, as a means of drawing interest on that money until the actual point of expenditure if for no other reason.

That's what I thought, too but was confused by the emphasis being put on the comment that Paul Allen didn't want to put all that money into escrow.
With the teams being forced by the CBA to spend something like 90% of the CAP, it wouldn't matter from an escrow point of view how it's to be divided amongst the contracts.

[Anthony]

If Seattle tags him, and does not match, they receive two first round picks, as for the rest, you are absolutely correct, reading ( and writing) are indeed fundamental, you should read the posts you have made on the subject. SMDH.

yeah I read it and it makes my point that you have no ignored till you decide to bring it up again and I once again make it clear you have not read what I wrote.

[Anthony]

Not sure if this has been posted but here

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-fo ... e-seahawks

[NorthHawk]

I hadn't seen that article, Anthony.
Thanks for the link - it's an interesting perspective from someone who's done contracts in the NFL.

[Anthony]

Russell Wilson want to be with Seahawks for 'really, really long time'

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foo ... -long-time

[Anthony]

Icarus: A Terrible Title for a Russell Wilson Post

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2015/6/27/8813241/icarus

Some very very interesting data here

as an add on the defenses time on the field went form 33 minutes down to 27 minutes form 2011-2012. FYI I length of drive went up significantly as well.

[HumanCockroach]

Whatever Anthony, you have been on the " FO not respect Wilson " " or the fans don't respect Wilson enough" or "special rules for Lynch " or he gets hurt, or walks or numerous other doom and gloom trains for so long, based on "reports" it isn't worth the Damn time to copy, paste and re read all of the posts. Believe what you want, I could give two shakes .

[Anthony]

Whatever Anthony, you have been on the " FO not respect Wilson " " or the fans don't respect Wilson enough" or "special rules for Lynch " or he gets hurt, or walks or numerous other doom and gloom trains for so long, based on "reports" it isn't worth the Damn time to copy, paste and re read all of the posts. Believe what you want, I could give two shakes .

and yet you took time to reply. To bad the links I posted were for those who have not seen them, what they take from them is up to them.

[Anthony]

Here is more on the guarantee thing

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2015/6/29/886 ... teed-money

You know it makes sense, I mean right now the team can pretty much cut a player and they get nothing, but what they already got, Seems like the players should have something.

[NorthHawk]

Here is more on the guarantee thing

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2015/6/29/886 ... teed-money

You know it makes sense, I mean right now the team can pretty much cut a player and they get nothing, but what they already got, Seems like the players should have something.

And with his Agent being a Baseball agent where guaranteed contracts are the norm, higher guarantees might become an issue.
However, it would be an issue with most teams in the NFL as it's not part of the culture.

[Anthony]

And with his Agent being a Baseball agent where guaranteed contracts are the norm, higher guarantees might become an issue.
However, it would be an issue with most teams in the NFL as it's not part of the culture.

Agreed, this could be interesting and it in the end this might be more of a matter were Wilson is a pawn in the agents (collectively) trying to get guarantees more apart of the norm. Hopefully something happens soon though.

[SalmonBB]

If there ever was an exception to this F.O.'s rule, it's our QB.

Exactly. Agree.

GO SEAHAWKS!!!

[politicalfootball]

I heard Wilson is considering playing baseball. Anyone know about that ?

[burrrton]

Here is more on the guarantee thing

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2015/6/29/886 ... teed-money

You know it makes sense, I mean right now the team can pretty much cut a player and they get nothing, but what they already got, Seems like the players should have something.

I have no problem if the players can negotiate guaranteed money, and in fact I think it would be worth guaranteeing whatever it takes to retain RW, but let's be clear- the players *do* "have something".

It's one of the most lucrative jobs on the planet. Just because they can't stay at peak earnings until Medicare eligible, or because they can be fired like everyone else on earth, doesn't mean they're being taken advantage of.

Also, it's worth remembering that guaranteed money hurts the team, and since it's the team I root for, I'd rather not see guaranteed money (all other things being equal) unless that's what it takes to retain a player who's worth the risk (and again, I think Wilson is).