What former players/coaches are saying about Deflate Gate

[RiverDog]

I realize that we already have a thread running about Deflate Gate, but I thought that the issue was broad enough to justify another thread.

Here's what some notable former players and coaches had to say about the issue and is part of what led me to change my mind on this matter:

It’s obvious that Tom Brady had something to do with this,”
- Troy Aikman

"That would have to be driven by the quarterback," "That's something that wouldn't be driven by a coach or just the equipment guy. Nobody, not even the head coach, would do anything to a football unilaterally, such as adjust the amount of pressure in a ball, without the quarterback not knowing. It would have to be the quarterback's idea."
- John Madden

“Tom Brady knows exactly what was done to the ball or what wasn’t done with the ball as every other quarterback in the National Football League (does). . . . Nobody is going to touch the ball in that locker room but Tom Brady.
“I thought in the press conference he was very uncomfortable because he knows,”
- Fran Tarkenton

"It's cheating," "Regardless of how you may want to spin it.
- Hines Ward

"I think you have to really put an asterisk on it, because this is going to follow them, you know, for the rest of their lives,”
- Jerry Rice

“I’m disappointed in you, Tom Brady” ... “I can’t believe — I needed to take a sip of water,” Bettis said. “I could not believe what I heard. I’m so disappointed. I thought this was the perfect opportunity for Tom Brady to go and say, ‘you know what? I made a mistake. I blew it. It’s on me. I’ll take the blame here and this will go away.’ He didn’t do that.”
- Jerome Bettis

“I did not believe what Tom had to say. Those balls were deflated. Somebody had to do it and I don’t believe there’s an equipment manager in the NFL that would on his own initiative deflate a ball without the starting quarterback’s approval. I just didn’t believe what Tom Brady had to say.”
- Mark Brunell

“It’s unbelievable for you not to know what you touch every play.”
- Brian Dawkins

Another thing that made me realize how significant this air pressure issue was is that Mark Brunell was given a number of footballs all up to the standard pressure except for one that was 1.5 psi below the standard. Brunell immediately picked out the one that had the low pressure. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the ball with a little give to it is going to be easier to grip than one that is as hard as a rock.

[Hawktawk]

RD I saw a test that was conducted with everyday people who dont even play football and THEY could tell the difference.Brady is LYING. Billacheat is LYING.
Oh and BTW why did Seattle get jumped on for using an MLK quote in a promo and Brady can tell the world "this isn't ISIS". Where is the moral outrage? That is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard any athlete say when trying to cover his ass.Talk about a callous disregard for the people who have had relatives publicly beheaded and shot like dogs in the street.

The more I think about it the more I have to ask. HOW LONG has it been going on? It is widely suspected that Spy gate went on from the beginning of Billacheats tenure. Why is this any different? The Colts complained after the first meeting.At a minimum something changed dramatically for Brady and the Pats after they were drubbed by KC and Brady was benched in the second half after multiple turnovers.


One could make the case they would have beat the colts with 20 lbs of air in the ball but the Ravens were certainly an opponent they may well have beaten only due to their competitive advantage.The Pats came back from 14 down twice in the divisional round. Flacco uncharacteristically threw a couple of killer picks in the inclement conditions while Gronk was making circus catches and Blount was error free from a turnover standpoint.The ball is easier to catch and hang on to deflated slightly, not just throw. Its a microcosm of the Nerf ball philosophy.
Goodell will lose any shred of credibility he has which isn't much if they whitewash this scandal.Some of the punishment should be handed down right now IMO.

[RiverDog]

RD I saw a test that was conducted with everyday people who dont even play football and THEY could tell the difference.Brady is LYING. Billacheat is LYING.
Oh and BTW why did Seattle get jumped on for using an MLK quote in a promo and Brady can tell the world "this isn't ISIS". Where is the moral outrage? That is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard any athlete say when trying to cover his ass.Talk about a callous disregard for the people who have had relatives publicly beheaded and shot like dogs in the street.

The more I think about it the more I have to ask. HOW LONG has it been going on? It is widely suspected that Spy gate went on from the beginning of Billacheats tenure. Why is this any different? The Colts complained after the first meeting.At a minimum something changed dramatically for Brady and the Pats after they were drubbed by KC and Brady was benched in the second half after multiple turnovers.


One could make the case they would have beat the colts with 20 lbs of air in the ball but the Ravens were certainly an opponent they may well have beaten only due to their competitive advantage.The Pats came back from 14 down twice in the divisional round. Flacco uncharacteristically threw a couple of killer picks in the inclement conditions while Gronk was making circus catches and Blount was error free from a turnover standpoint.The ball is easier to catch and hang on to deflated slightly, not just throw. Its a microcosm of the Nerf ball philosophy.
Goodell will lose any shred of credibility he has which isn't much if they whitewash this scandal.Some of the punishment should be handed down right now IMO.

I'm not convinced that Belichick is lying. I do believe that the head coach could have been completely oblivious to the entire thing. That's not to say that I think he's innocent, either. Both him and Robert Kraft must be held accountable and any punishment handed down has to include both of them.

I think there is about a 99% chance that Brady is lying. The only thing I can think of in his defense is that perhaps some enterprising ball boy, knowing that Brady likes underinflated footballs, took some air out of them after they were inspected and given back to the Pats without Brady's specific approval. But Brady had to have known that they were under inflated. He's not the type of quarterback to ignore details, and after reading some of the comments from former quarterbacks, it's inconceivable to me that he didn't notice that they were under inflated at the start of the game or re-inflated at the start of the second half. After all, it was Brady that campaigned for the league to allow them to play with their own, exclusive footballs, so you know that he is a very detail orientated player.

It's impossible to tell what kind of effect it had on the outcome of the AFCCG or any other game. Brady supporters will point out the fact that Brady played his best football in the 2nd half of the AFCCG after the balls were inflated to the proper pressure. The actual effect it had is not the point. The point is that the balls were significantly altered and that the alteration resulted in an unfair competitive advantage no different than a player getting caught using PED's.

I also think it is extremely unlikely that the AFCCG was the only game in which the Pats played with intentionally deflated footballs. If it is proven to have happened in the AFCCG, then it almost certainly was done in numerous games prior, perhaps years prior.

Edit: I am listening to Sirius NFL, and Drew Bledsoe is supposed to be on at 10:20-10:30. It will be interesting to hear his take.

[NorthHawk]

Brady said he checked the balls and accepts them as just like he wants them before they are put in the bag before the game.
That he wouldn't know they are different when the game starts is inconceivable.
My guess is he had a tacit agreement with the ball boy or equipment manager to slightly deflate the balls.

I've heard some different theories about how it could have happened - one of them is they were inflated and tested in a very hot room and when they went outside the pressure naturally decreases. It might be true, and maybe work, but who would agree to heat the room up that much in order to do that? It seems to me that it would have to be a team management decision to knowingly bend the rules to their advantage. That sounds like something the Pats would do considering their past and what they did in their playoff match with the Colts with their eligible/ineligible player changes.


Proving deceit in this case will be a difficult task unless someone confesses.

[RiverDog]

Brady said he checked the balls and accepts them as just like he wants them before they are put in the bag before the game.
That he wouldn't know they are different when the game starts is inconceivable.
My guess is he had a tacit agreement with the ball boy or equipment manager to slightly deflate the balls.

I've heard some different theories about how it could have happened - one of them is they were inflated and tested in a very hot room and when they went outside the pressure naturally decreases. It might be true, and maybe work, but who would agree to heat the room up that much in order to do that? It seems to me that it would have to be a team management decision to knowingly bend the rules to their advantage. That sounds like something the Pats would do considering their past and what they did in their playoff match with the Colts with their eligible/ineligible player changes.


Proving deceit in this case will be a difficult task unless someone confesses.

I'll have to bounce that one off my PhD chemist friends that are coming over to watch the SB with me. I know that when my truck tires at 35 psi sit outside in zero degree weather for 12+ hours, they will lose a couple psi. But in a matter of a few minutes? And the weather wasn't that cold as it was raining, not snowing, so we're talking about a temperature differential of about 30 degrees.

But even if it was enough to account for a 15% difference, it does not explain why all 12 of the Colts footballs, that were (I assume) inflated at the same time and in the same room as the Pats, were at pressure both before the game and when they were re-tested at halftime while 11 of 12 of the Pats footballs were at pressure before the game and as much as 2 psi low when tested at halftime.

FYI I just heard Bledsoe talk on Sirius NFL. He pretty much backed up Brady and Co., says prejudging them is irresponsible, says he always examined game balls but never knew which ones had low air pressure, etc.

[NorthHawk]

Do the teams inflate their own footballs without observation then give them to the Referees to confirm they are valid?
If so, they could have their own hot room.

I can see how it's possible, but I don't know how hot the room would have to be relative to the field to create such a large degree of pressure change.

[c_hawkbob]

2 to 3%. That's how much the air temperature difference would make. It's a BS explanation.

[HumanCockroach]

Seems to me, all the former players, that DIDN'T play a bulk of career in NE are calling BS, while those that did are playing the "it's irresponsible to judge" card ( meaning the NFL can make any excuse they feel like, and these guys will say "see told you all so") sorry, I'm siding with my OWN knowledge of playing football, and that is, ANYONE who handles/d a ball even semi regularily can tell immediately when a ball is under inflated.

Sorry Drew, Heath, Willie and Tom, your bullsh*t story doesn't wash....

[RiverDog]

2 to 3%. That's how much the air temperature difference would make. It's a BS explanation.

Frankly I would be surprised if it were that much. The air inside a football is not going to cool down by 30 degrees in 90 minutes. Besides, the Colts footballs would have shown the same pressure loss. It's more than BS, it's an insult to our intelligence to offer up that kind of reasoning.

Although I wasn't expecting him to throw his former coach and teammate under the bus, I thought that Bledsoe might have had something substantive to add to the discussion but he really didn't. Most of what he said was personal in nature and didn't give any special insight as to how game balls are handled. I don't get his outrage about the media coverage, either, not when so many former coaches and players have weighed in.

[Hawktawk]

FYI I just heard Bledsoe talk on Sirius NFL. He pretty much backed up Brady and Co., says prejudging them is irresponsible, says he always examined game balls but never knew which ones had low air pressure, etc.[/quote]

News flash Bledsoe backs the Patriots! Where did he get his SB ring again? Come on now:)
Billacheat may not have known the exact deal with the footballs last Sunday but he is lying through his teeth when he says he didn't know the custody process or the regulations. A guy who knows 4 offensive lineman is legal doesn't know the rules that govern the ball? What a load of BS.

This is becoming a huge deal.People are calling in their chips, IOU's so to speak.They are tossing one another under the bus. They realize this could affect their legacy and their paycheck as well.
I just watched an extensive Billacheat news conference where he addressed the deflated footballs at length
I dont know if Ive ever heard him speak as openly about his team as he did about this issue.
My biggest takeaway is that he said atmospheric conditions did not explain the amount of discrepancy. He said the balls were"artificially inflated to 12.5 lbs"a very interesting phrase to say the least .Then he said something to the effect that they had obviously lost air pressure after that.
He is not protecting his QB and seems to be trying to absolutely lay the blame at his feet.

[HumanCockroach]

He said the balls were"artificially inflated to 12.5 lbs

What the hell does that mean? Was something other than simple air used to inflate them? I'm not a scientist, but I would guess there is something similar to air ( weight, pressure etc) that could be used to inflate a ball, that would lose more PSI in cold weather conditions than regular old air would ( while not being helium or something, that maintained similar weight and density)...

Maybe not?? But certainly an odd thing to say IMHO... IF there is something like that, and the Patriots USED that knowingly, I would be for, something severe, harsh and historic. ( not saying they did do that, or even that there is something that could do those things) things like lifetime bans would need to be discussed at that point ( though I certainly am not for a lifetime ban, a full year for Brady would be definitely something I would support, and Billechick, and the owner/ GM etc)

[Hawktawk]

HC other than that quote I really didn't hear what he was saying the first time. Upon listening again he was using comments like"true equilibrium of the ball""atmospheric pressure" blah blah blah,That was the context in which he talked about the artificial air pressure. He said the interviewed their ball boys to learn how the balls were prepared then had an independent experimental investigation. He said it proves there are discrepancies in the balls after time outside.So in other words a week after not knowing anything about the process now he knows everything.
It was really unbelievable, total baffle with bullshit.
Its embarrassing watching these grown men tell bald faced lies knowing full well nobody is buying it. Goody said after spy gate that he would use a lower burden of proof with cheaters who are repeat offenders.Where is he?Witness protection program? Has he even addressed this?I dont want to win with an asterisk but if the league had any spine some sanction should be leveled prior to the Super Bowl.

[RiverDog]

Well, there was a rumor years ago that the Raiders were inflating footballs with helium, hence Ray Guy's rain maker punts. Would using a different substance other than regular atmospheric air would qualify as "artificial"?

I just heard Belichick summarizing the Patriots own internal investigation. He sounded pretty convincing, forcefully said that no one within the Patriots organization tampered with any footballs. He still doesn't have any answers as to how they got deflated, though.

What should happen is that they take away the game balls from the teams and let the referees maintain custody of them. Use one football for everything, kicking, punting, plays from scrimmage, everything. This whole issue would never have happened if not for Brady and Manning whining about having their own personal footballs. My old man would be shaking his head in amazement if he knew that each team had their own exclusive footballs, that they used different balls for kicking, etc. People not familiar with the sport are laughing their asses off. Does any other sport get their own exclusive balls/pucks, etc?

[Seahawks4Ever]

Now John Harbaugh is saying that the footballs used for kicking were under inflated during their play off game against the Pats. He chalked it up to the weather but Patriots fans called him a scumbag for mentioning it anyhow.

I can spot a liar, and I believe that both Brady and his coach are lying. Now, what to do? For the Super Bowl, NOTHING! But for next season and beyond Roger Goodell needs to put a smack down so hard on the Belicheat and the Patriots organization that all other NFL teams will take notice and never even think about cheating again. I am talking about losing multiple draft picks for multiple years and Belicheat being suspended for at least 3 seasons. Oh, and Brady ought to spend at least a year sitting on his brains contemplating the possible damage to his legacy.

[savvyman]

Not a Former Player or coach.

But Bill Nye "The Science Guy" says that Belichick's explanation is BS.


http://screengrabber.deadspin.com/bill-nye-the-science-guy-says-bill-belichick-is-full-of-1681658679?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

[RiverDog]

Not a Former Player or coach.

But Bill Nye "The Science Guy" says that Belichick's explanation is BS.


http://screengrabber.deadspin.com/bill-nye-the-science-guy-says-bill-belichick-is-full-of-1681658679?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that Belichick's explanation was B.S. I don't know who briefed Belichick on what to say in his presser, but who ever it was should be fired. That was as tortured of a physics discussion as I've have ever heard. Belichick couldn't explain the difference between his ass and a hot rock.

[Hawktawk]

Belichick couldn't explain the difference between his ass and a hot rock.[/quote]

This is the problem I have with this. Its obvious they are lying. If it were a criminal matter no lawyer would ever advise Brady or Belichick to open their yaps, because they are impeaching themselves worse with every syllable.
I think they realize they are going to get hammered by the league in a very dramatic fashion and they would like to muddle the issue for another week.
The pr offensive is all about making sure it doesn't happen before Sunday. Because the ride might be coming to an end in NE for one or the other of them if not both.

Again, where is Goodell?He has said he would use a lower burden of proof for repeat offenders and frankly there is proof something was done that manipulated the air pressure in the footballs.
I guess the appointment of Ted Wells suggests a whitewash at least in terms of knocking the story off the front pages for the immediate future. It will a topic for this Superbowl regardless.

[RiverDog]

This is the problem I have with this. Its obvious they are lying. If it were a criminal matter no lawyer would ever advise Brady or Belichick to open their yaps, because they are impeaching themselves worse with every syllable.
I think they realize they are going to get hammered by the league in a very dramatic fashion and they would like to muddle the issue for another week.
The pr offensive is all about making sure it doesn't happen before Sunday. Because the ride might be coming to an end in NE for one or the other of them if not both.

Again, where is Goodell?He has said he would use a lower burden of proof for repeat offenders and frankly there is proof something was done that manipulated the air pressure in the footballs.
I guess the appointment of Ted Wells suggests a whitewash at least in terms of knocking the story off the front pages for the immediate future. It will a topic for this Superbowl regardless.

I listened to a guy on the radio this morning that had worked as an NFL equipment manager for 15 years, and he said that it would be extremely difficult for a person to deflate 11 footballs unobserved in the short amount of time they had between the time the refs handed them over until kickoff. He stopped short of calling it impossible, but he had his doubts.

So what it could come down to is that the Pats won't have a reasonable explanation as to how the balls got deflated but neither will the league or anyone else, and in all fairness, I can't see them coming down hard on either one of them unless there's some evidence of someone, anyone, employed by the Pats that tampered with the game balls.

So I guess my opinion is beginning to swing back to the other side of this issue again. I still think Brady is lying through his teeth when he said he couldn't tell a difference, that the balls had been re-inflated at halftime, but I don't think they are going to be able to pin it on them.

[Hawktawk]

I listened to a guy on the radio this morning that had worked as an NFL equipment manager for 15 years, and he said that it would be extremely difficult for a person to deflate 11 footballs unobserved in the short amount of time they had between the time the refs handed them over until kickoff. He stopped short of calling it impossible, but he had his doubts.

So what it could come down to is that the Pats won't have a reasonable explanation as to how the balls got deflated but neither will the league or anyone else, and in all fairness, I can't see them coming down hard on either one of them unless there's some evidence of someone, anyone, employed by the Pats that tampered with the game balls.

So I guess my opinion is beginning to swing back to the other side of this issue again. I still think Brady is lying through his teeth when he said he couldn't tell a difference, that the balls had been re-inflated at halftime, but I don't think they are going to be able to pin it on them.[/quote]

I'm not so sure the axe wont fall when its all said and done.Billacheat said yesterday that the balls had "never been inflated in a heated room or condition" and had been inflated "either in the locker room or very near there".
This is information that was volunteered without being asked and was delivered in a very parsed manner. In reality RD, its becoming clear that something like that is EXACTLY what happened. Nobody took any air out of the balls.The temperature or humidity of the air was manipulated at the time of inflation leading to the rapid deflation. They were aired up and returned to the sidelines and DID NOT DEFLATE in the second half, even though they spent a lot of time being used on the field The Colt balls had no similar problem before or during the game.The whole impromptu press conference was bizarre, as was Brady's giggling nervous deer in the headlights presser.
I think they are going down, its just a matter of time. Hawks can deal the first death blow to the franchise, a perfect first step to destroying the evil empire.

[Seahawks4Ever]

Mean while, Roger Goodell has been drilling it into the heads of the officials that they are to flag Marshawn Lynch if it even "appears" he put his hand any where near his crotch. The NFL is now saying that they will throw ML out of the game the SECOND time he grabs his gonads. Oh, and I am sure the officials have been told to throw flags at the LOB early and often but let Revis and Browner mug our receivers at will. The Evil Empire is not controlled by Belicheat or Robert Kraft but by Roger Goodell himself. I love that Richard Sherman is telling the truth, but, couldn't he have waited until February 2nd. ??

It isn't going to matter, our Seahawks are going to repeat! Our Seahawks will nit be denied!!!

GO SEAHAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hawk Sista]

I love that Richard Sherman is telling the truth, but, couldn't he have waited until February 2nd. ??

My thoughts exactly. I don't know what the deal is with this situation, but I do know that there is a delta between the fines/treatment Marshawn gets VS. Brady or Bill. Unless there is some hard and fast data that shows otherwise, I will go to my grave with this season being having an * next to it for the PATS.

[Hawktawk]

Maybe there is a smoking gun.Fox Sports is reporting that the investigation is focused on a Patriots locker room attendant who is seen on videotape taking the inspected footballs from the locker room to another room before exiting and taking them to the field. He has already been interviewed.

[mykc14]

Maybe there is a smoking gun.Fox Sports is reporting that the investigation is focused on a Patriots locker room attendant who is seen on videotape taking the inspected footballs from the locker room to another room before exiting and taking them to the field. He has already been interviewed.

And of course the gun wasn't being held by Brady. I mean just think about how laughable it would be to think this attendant would, on his own, just decided to deflate 11 footballs. If old Roger really is going to try to pin this on one rogue locker room attendant this thing is going to get a lot more messy. He already looks bad for the Ray Rice incident and set a major precedent in bountygate imagine how stupid he will look when he stands at a podium and reveals the true cheater... the locker room attendant.

[RiverDog]

Maybe there is a smoking gun.Fox Sports is reporting that the investigation is focused on a Patriots locker room attendant who is seen on videotape taking the inspected footballs from the locker room to another room before exiting and taking them to the field. He has already been interviewed.

That would certainly change things, especially as it goes to the team's complicity. But unless the locker room attendant testifies that he did tamper with the balls and that he was doing it with Brady's approval or knowledge, it would be pretty tough to discipline Brady and make it stick. But Belichick and the team would definitely be on the hook.

I still think Tom Brady was lying through his teeth when he told us that he didn't notice a difference, not someone as meticulous as he is about footballs. I don't think he is any less guilty than the rest of you folks do. But its impossible to prove and even if it was proven, lying in a press conference is not against the rules. I just don't see any way the league can hang this on Brady.

[HumanCockroach]

"Ignorance is not an excuse" Rodger Goodall circa two whole years ago...

IF he lets the franchise, player most responsible for the condition of the footballs, and the coach slide, this is going to get real, real messy, real quick.

[Distant Relative]

Bottom line for me is the Pats are guilty. The balls were inspected by officials and marked. Ballboy takes balls early, balls were found to be under inflated and the Colts balls weren't. So at some time during their possession of the balls before game time the balls were deflated. I don't care who did it! They were in the Pats possession and were responsible for what ever happened to them!

I'm sure the equipment guy will be fired and compensated very well for lying. I wonder how he will launder the money?

Would have to be a homer to believe their lies.

Go Hawks!

[savvyman]

Rep for Wilson - Manufacturer of NFL Footballs - Says Belichick's explantion is "BS"

http://deadspin.com/nfl-football-manufacturer-also-says-bill-belichick-is-f-1681802079

[savvyman]

Again the key point from that person who did the statistical analysis is that the under-inflated football is easier to grip - not only by the QB - But even more importantly by the running back and receivers who through that guys statistics showed that the patriots fumbles drop to a near statistically impossible low rate beginning in 2007 - right when the NFL allowed teams to "Bring Your Own Football" to games.

[Hawktawk]

Again the key point from that person who did the statistical analysis is that the under-inflated football is easier to grip - not only by the QB - But even more importantly by the running back and receivers who through that guys statistics showed that the patriots fumbles drop to a near statistically impossible low rate beginning in 2007 - right when the NFL allowed teams to "Bring Your Own Football" to games.

Exactly. Anyone who thinks it hasn't been going on a long time is sniffing glue. There were complaints earlier in the season as has been widely reported already including Ravens kickers saying the balls seemed to not have the distance or hang time. Now we have video of the manager taking ALL the footballs in a bathroom. A report this morning said it was only for 2 minutes but it is undeniable the Patriots balls were underinflated while the Colts balls were not. The simple absurdity of having Billacheat, Kraft, and Brady pleading their case in the court of public opinion is nauseating and unprecedented.

There's an old saying. "the more loudly he proclaimed his honesty the more closely I guarded the silver".
Ten Pinocchio's for the Patsies.

[c_hawkbob]

Rep for Wilson - Manufacturer of NFL Footballs - Says Belichick's explantion is "BS"

http://deadspin.com/nfl-football-manufacturer-also-says-bill-belichick-is-f-1681802079

The writer's last line in that link is hilarious!

The real answer is that you should have paid more attention in school, maybe gone into a STEM field, and maybe you wouldn't be blogging 17 blogs about soft footballs as if this, any of this, could possibly matter in any way, ever, to anyone.