Game vs Bucs

[NorthHawk]

From PFT:

They will not have safety Julian Love (hamstring), cornerback Devon Witherspoon (knee), outside linebacker DeMarcus Lawrence (quad) or backup offensive tackle Josh Jones (ankle).

Witherspoon, Lawrence and Love will not need a stint on injured reserve, coach Mike Macdonald said.

I guess this means Woolen will see more action.

[River Dog]

From PFT:

They will not have safety Julian Love (hamstring), cornerback Devon Witherspoon (knee), outside linebacker DeMarcus Lawrence (quad) or backup offensive tackle Josh Jones (ankle).

Witherspoon, Lawrence and Love will not need a stint on injured reserve, coach Mike Macdonald said.



I guess this means Woolen will see more action.

Oh, goody!

But we should get Nick E. back as he was a full participant in practice.

[4XPIPS]

Well, I was hoping to see Love play more than Spoon at this time. At least we will get some more Kendrick time, as I think he has been playing better than all the corners up til this point. I am not advocating for Spoon to be benched, but he has been playing poorly this season, and I would rather him get fully healed up and come back and play with that high intensity he showed when he was a rookie.

Bucs are banged up too, and it looks like Bucky Irving is out, and that is a huge blow as he does so much in the passing game as well as their lead tailback. Baker is going to play, but he banged up too.

It would be nice to see what Nick Emmanwori can bring to the game, as we have heard so much about him during the offseason. Remember Nick Emmanwori is the first Mike Macdonald DB top pick since he has taken over, and all the other DBs he inherited. So this is the 3rd part to each level up his drafting. Last year, it was the front line with Murphy, and the 2nd level with Tyrice Knight at LB, and now the secondary with Nick Emmanwori. So this could be the beginning pieces for Mike Macdonald's dynasty defense in the making, with a core player at each level. We could be looking at the future of the number one defense for years to come. I know there are massive contributors like Love, Big Cat, Spoon. but this is the young core we are starting with.

I do believe, with injuries taken into consideration across the league, we have the best defense in the NFL. DVOA has us ranked #1 as well. Bucs would be a big statement game if we can pull this off, and hold the Bucs to under 16 pts. If we can keep the Bucs under 16 points, we should get this win. The Bucs have a propensity to play close games, so we shall see. Baker is sort of a wildcard QB, where certain parts of the game he can be accurate and unorthodox.

[4XPIPS]

Also, I just read that both teams are going to wear their throwback uniforms for this one, as they have a shared history coming into the league together. I wasn't alive when they both were introduced, but it would be cool to see what the face value of a ticket to the Kingdome back in 1976? I have a question on this throwback? Was the Kingdome built for the Seahawks, or was it already up and ready to be used for other events before Seattle was awarded an NFL franchise?

[River Dog]

Also, I just read that both teams are going to wear their throwback uniforms for this one, as they have a shared history coming into the league together. I wasn't alive when they both were introduced, but it would be cool to see what the face value of a ticket to the Kingdome back in 1976? I have a question on this throwback? Was the Kingdome built for the Seahawks, or was it already up and ready to be used for other events before Seattle was awarded an NFL franchise?

Yeah, I saw that, too. Two of the worst logos in football in one game, the gay pirate vs. the stoned seagull. 1976 wasn't a good year for logo creation IMO.

As far as what ticket pricing used to be, I can't say what it was in '76, but in 1984, a friend of mine and I bought two season tickets for seats a few rows from the top of the Kingdome off the corner of the end zone for $150 per seat, which included 8 home games and 4 exhibition games. I used to get freebee tickets to Hawks games from suppliers for the company I worked for that would buy season tickets then give them to their customers who would in turn give them to their employees. That practice later became prohibited with my employer under our conflict-of-interest policy. Several people I knew got fired for violations of it.

If my memory is correct, the first major event held in the Kingdome was a soccer game featuring the New York Cosmos and their star player Pele, a player from Brazil who was supposedly the best soccer player in the world, in the spring of 1976 before the Hawks played their first game. I can remember who scored the first touchdown in the first Seahawk game ever, an exhibition (they didn't call it preseason back then). It was Ron Howard, a tight end who I saw play sports at Pasco High when I was in junior high in Walla Walla.

The Kingdome was approved by King County voters in the late 60's prior to the city being awarded an MLB team that eventually became the Seattle Pilots. The Pilots played one year at Sicks Stadium, in 1969, in a literal shithole of a minor league stadium, while the Kingdome was being built. The ownership of the Pilots filed for bankruptcy and the team was sold to Bud Selig, who promptly moved them to Milwaukee to become the Brewers in 1970. The state of WA successfully sued MLB for moving the Pilots and as a condition of the settlement, were awarded a team that became the Mariners, who started play in 1977. Seattle was awarded an NFL franchise in 1974 and began play in 1976. There were a number of delays in getting the new dome built, including siting and structural concerns.

Anyhow, thanks for triggering my trip down memory lane. It dusted off some cob webs.

[4XPIPS]

This game is a disaster to watch. Our big plays being called back because of penalties, and the play calling is a joke. 2nd and 18 and Klint calls for a pitch out side for 2 yards, and leaves us 3rd and long.

Milroe needs to stay benched until he is ready to actually play like a normal QB, that option disaster is another Klint boneheaded play call. He isn't Taysom Hill so lets stop trying this crap.

[trents]

This game is a disaster to watch. Our big plays being called back because of penalties, and the play calling is a joke. 2nd and 18 and Klint calls for a pitch out side for 2 yards, and leaves us 3rd and long.

Milroe needs to stay benched until he is ready to actually play like a normal QB, that option disaster is another Klint boneheaded play call. He isn't Taysom Hill so lets stop trying this crap.

Part of the problem, though, is that MacDonald only puts Milroe in for those kind of plays. So, the defense already knows what's going to be run. But yes, he's not ready. He should have held onto the ball on that option play. By the time Milroe pushed the ball out to the back, the angle was all wrong.

[4XPIPS]

<<Halftime>>

Well, a much-needed late TD pass from a lazer by Darnold. About the only thing that is working on our offense at this point is the short passing game of Sam, and I would hope when we get the ball for the 2nd half, we can try to establish the run game better and clean up these stupid penalties.

[4XPIPS]

Part of the problem, though, is that MacDonald only puts Milroe in for those kind of plays. So, the defense already knows what's going to be run. But yes, he's not ready. He should have held onto the ball on that option play. By the time Milroe pushed the ball out to the back, the angle was all wrong.

Exactly, it's not like the defense is going to be fooled into thinking Milroe is going to sit in the pocket and fire a pass. But it's Klint calling everything from personnel groups to the plays, so that play call is on Klint.

[4XPIPS]

Part of the problem, though, is that MacDonald only puts Milroe in for those kind of plays. So, the defense already knows what's going to be run. But yes, he's not ready. He should have held onto the ball on that option play. By the time Milroe pushed the ball out to the back, the angle was all wrong.

Exactly, it's not like the defense is going to be fooled into thinking Milroe is going to sit in the pocket and fire a pass. But it's Klint calling everything from personnel groups to the plays, so that play call is on Klint. Mike may override him at times, but as we saw with Grubb last year, the play calling is 100% the OC.

[c_hawkbob]

Our secondary is horrible, and now we look to be losing Pritchett.

[Aseahawkfan]

This game turning into a crazy shootout.

[c_hawkbob]

Damn, I was just starting to feel comfortable with us having the last possession.

[Aseahawkfan]

how did they score 10 points in like 3 minutes. What happened. That was sad.

[NorthHawk]

The Seahawks seemed to leave the middle of the field open almost all day. How many times did the Bucs complete a 15 or more yard reception when they were 3rd and long?

Outside of a couple of strange play calls, I liked how the Offensive plays were called. Like us, the Bucs have a good Defense and we scored a lot of points today. I still maintain that had we had an Offense like this in 2013 - 2017, we would have won a lot more championships. But we were stuck with Pete’s mundane limited Offense.

We still need to upgrade the RG and maybe Center if Sundell has reached his peak for this Offense to really take the next step.

In all though this team is taking a step forward this year and I’m happy about that.

[4XPIPS]

What an exciting game. I know there are a lot of Darnold haters, but he did enough to win the game, engineered 5 scoring TD drives, and threw for 4 TDs. That sort of production should be enough to win a football game, and the run game was better in the 2nd half.

I have to eat my own words, as this defense, even after a long mini bye, could not defend the middle for crap. I know Nemiah is just a depth player, but once you are playing him in place of Riq, you are in real trouble for shifty cross route runners like Emeka.

The Myers miss was huge, but this defense failed in this game, and there is no other excuse other than they need to get back to the drawing board and get healthy and start dominating.

I am not sure what is with our team playing home games, and stinking it up. Is it because players at home, and there are more distractions, but I almost wish we played every game on the road as we are a completely different team on the road.

Back to Sam, he did throw that interception, but really, he balled out. I looked back at numerous threads on this forum, with the theme of "time to bench Geno" the last two seasons, and I know for sure there is no talk about ever benching Sam. Sam has been efficient, and deserves credit for ballin out.

[Aseahawkfan]

This defense won't be good again until we draft some better linebackers and maybe some better safeties.

[HawkSis]

Or get back 3 key players. We were top 3 in scoring until today. No excuse for the loss, but please on this defense won’t be good.

[Aseahawkfan]

Or get back 3 key players. We were top 3 in scoring until today. No excuse for the loss, but please on this defense won’t be good.

Top 3 in scoring against weak teams isn't very meaningful when once you run into some better teams you get buzzsawed.

This is an incredibly weak schedule the Seahawks are playing.

[trents]

There was no defense played by either team. It was a shootout. Besides our secondary not being able to cover the middle of the field, we could not get pressure on Mayfield. And of course, those two things work together. And of course, Mayfield is a mobile QB, which exacerbated the problem of not being able to pressure him.

[Aseahawkfan]

We still need stronger linebackers. And at least one strong safety. We're a few drafts away from being a strong defense that can compete and dictate to good teams.

I can't even tell if the Bucs are any good. I wonder what the standings will look like about 10 or 11 games in. Picture should be clearer.

[NorthHawk]

We don’t have quality depth yet. I hope we start to get some with perhaps a trade or two before the trade deadline.
Very even teams played today and one was going to win, unfortunately they got it done.
I think Darnold is playing great and is nearly the least of my concerns.
LB was thought to be suspect before the season started and it seems to be true. It would also be better to have an upgrade at pass rushing and maybe a real burner at WR.

[River Dog]

Not having Spoon and Love sure showed up yesterday. Even so, it was a game we should have won and very frustrating that we didn't. I'm losing confidence in Jason Myers as he missed another very makable FG and had a couple kicks that I had to hold my breath on. Darnold continues to play well. JSN is having a helluva season. Who was that big guy we had at WR the last couple of years that some accused of propping up JSN?

It isn't the end of the world. There is no dominant team in the division, indeed not one in the league in general. We need Sis to come in here and start a "3-2 is a disaster" thread.

[NorthHawk]

This is another stepping stone year in that we are trying to get better. I see that in the Offense and it looks like we can be competitive in a shootout, but quality depth is an issue.
The Bucs were hobbled by injuries, too so the teams were quite evenly matched. Overall, I like where we are headed but improvements are still needed.

[Aseahawkfan]

I don't think you can say much about league dominance yet. I think there are still some dominant teams that if you face them in the playoffs full ready, focused on you, they're going to whip your ass. One regular season unexpected loss doesn't much change it. Eagles and Buffalo definitely a load for any bad team. Detroit is pushing too. KC on a win or go home game still has Patrick Mahomes.

There are some key injuries messing some teams up. Ravens and Bengals are cooked without their QBs. 49ers are weaker without Bosa. Chargers lost their LT Joe Alt and it's showing in their QB play. Herbert isn't mobile.

Rams I'm not real sure about. I guess we'll see when we play them. Commanders are looking better than expected. Denver looks to be improving, but not in our conference and I still don't think they're Super Bowl ready.

JSN is awesome. Best player on the team on offense and maybe the whole team. Now I just need us to draft a new top dog QB that can build with JSN and we'll be rolling, though Darnold did have a great game. This loss not on him. But Darnold's problem is going to be like all those QBs that can't quite get you there: can't finish a game in the clutch against a great team. That's what separates the elite QBs from the good to ok QBs. The really lousy ones can't even keep an offense on time.

Spoon's injury issues starting to worry me. I hope he can get back and stay back. Though Spoon plays more like a safety. I wonder if we can convert him to a safety as his physical play style and not great hands for interceptions might make him more valuable as a safety.

[NorthHawk]

Our DBs are in trouble injury wise. I wonder if Nick Emmanwori will ever be healthy this year. Ankles can be bothersome for a long time if not completely healed. I keep hearing how they have these great packages for him, but not being a full speed has meant we haven't seen much of it yet. It will be interesting to see how the Secondary adjusts for this next game in Jacksonville.

[Aseahawkfan]

Our DBs are in trouble injury wise. I wonder if Nick Emmanwori will ever be healthy this year. Ankles can be bothersome for a long time if not completely healed. I keep hearing how they have these great packages for him, but not being a full speed has meant we haven't seen much of it yet. It will be interesting to see how the Secondary adjusts for this next game in Jacksonville.

Is Trevor Lawrence playing well? I don't see him lighting it up, but they seem to be winning as a team. Lawrence looks ok this year, but nothing special.

[River Dog]

Our DBs are in trouble injury wise. I wonder if Nick Emmanwori will ever be healthy this year. Ankles can be bothersome for a long time if not completely healed. I keep hearing how they have these great packages for him, but not being a full speed has meant we haven't seen much of it yet. It will be interesting to see how the Secondary adjusts for this next game in Jacksonville.

Is Trevor Lawrence playing well? I don't see him lighting it up, but they seem to be winning as a team. Lawrence looks ok this year, but nothing special.

Tonight will be my first full look at Jacksonville and Trevor Lawrence, but if one looks at the numbers and ratings, he's not having a good season. He's completing just 58.3% of his passes, his TD/INT is 5/4, and his passer rating is just 75.1, 30th amongst starting quarterbacks. PFF has him ranked 26th in overall offense amongst quarterbacks.

The Jags are getting it done on defense. They're currently 4th in the league in point defense. It will be an interesting game tonight vs. the Chiefs, who might be having a down year.

[trents]

Not having Spoon and Love sure showed up yesterday. Even so, it was a game we should have won and very frustrating that we didn't. I'm losing confidence in Jason Myers as he missed another very makable FG and had a couple kicks that I had to hold my breath on. Darnold continues to play well. JSN is having a helluva season. Who was that big guy we had at WR the last couple of years that some accused of propping up JSN?

It isn't the end of the world. There is no dominant team in the division, indeed not one in the league in general. We need Sis to come in here and start a "3-2 is a disaster" thread.

Jason Meyers' pattern seems to be he almost always nails the long ones but his misses seem to come on PATs and shorter field goals.

[4XPIPS]

Jason Meyers' pattern seems to be he almost always nails the long ones but his misses seem to come on PATs and shorter field goals.

And if you noticed, all of his extra point kicks were slicing to the right and were not a straight shot through. I was thinking some of them may actually slice hard to the right and miss but they did go in, so it's the Jason Myers roller coaster, one year he is dialed in, and then he has an off year.

[NorthHawk]

He lines up on the left hash mark so maybe it's by design or maybe the ball flight tends to slide right.

[Oly]

Thoughts on Bucs game:

—I'm in the minority, I think, but I thought the game was boring. Yeah, big plays are exciting, and so at the moment-by-moment level there was either a "hell yeah!" or "WTF?!" moment happening every-other play. But the general gameflow was boring. There was no drama in the outcome beyond who gets the last possession. No good defense to make you think about how the teams were adjusting. No chess match. Just two outmatched secondaries.

—We always knew the secondary was mediocre when healthy (albeit with promise) and super thin. We saw that today and it will continue to limit how good the team can be. With Love and Spoon, I still think the Hawks can win the division, but they're not meaningful contenders until they get better in the secondary. I think a true blue chip outside corner is critical. A FS who can close down those holes in the underneath zone—where the Bucs were deadly—is also important.

—I see OL improvements, but still a work in progress. Like the rest of the offense. I still need to see this offense put up points against better defenses before crowning them legit.

[Uppercut]

Ugh, the Jaguars game will be no cakewalk after watching them beat the Niners and Chiefs

[4XPIPS]

Rams I'm not real sure about. I guess we'll see when we play them. Commanders are looking better than expected. Denver looks to be improving, but not in our conference and I still don't think they're Super Bowl ready.

JSN is awesome. Best player on the team on offense and maybe the whole team. Now I just need us to draft a new top dog QB that can build with JSN and we'll be rolling, though Darnold did have a great game. This loss not on him. But Darnold's problem is going to be like all those QBs that can't quite get you there: can't finish a game in the clutch against a great team. That's what separates the elite QBs from the good to ok QBs. The really lousy ones can't even keep an offense on time.

Spoon's injury issues starting to worry me. I hope he can get back and stay back. Though Spoon plays more like a safety. I wonder if we can convert him to a safety as his physical play style and not great hands for interceptions might make him more valuable as a safety.

Darnold isn't elite and doesn't need to be elite for us to be a legit team. He just needs to be efficient, and for the most part, he is that and much more. Many pundits are dubbing this recent game against the Bucs as a possible NFC title rematch. I am not quite there yet, but I do think the Bucs are a good team, they barely lost against the Eagles, and they went toe to toe without Bucky Irving and Mike Evans in this game.

Our passing game isn't an issue, and it's playing well enough to win games against any opponent. I still have issues with Klint's play calling at times, and we need to trash the Milroe plays. Heck next time they put Milroe in there, let him throw the ball because "that would be the unexpected", he did toss quite a bit TDs at Alabama so just bringing him to run an option play here or there is dumb.

Spoon isn't built to be a safety; he is a cover corner and is most effective covering the slot well. I do think he is our best DB, but this season thus far he has played poorly in big moments and missed key tackles. We need him back healthy. I think Emmanwori is eventually going to fill that role that made Kyle Hamilton a star in Mike Macdonald's defense when with the Ravens. However, his healthy is concern.

Our biggest weak spot is the pass defense, and we got exposed with Prichett was put in place of Riq. Prichett was so bad at man cover, they eventually switched to a bracket coverage on Emeka(one high safety and press zone coverage short), and it gave Emeka free reign to cut the middle up as he was too shifty and quick for Prichett to cover. I don't disagree with you on the linebackers, the way they are playing now isn't good enough, and I still have hope that this part of the defense can get better over time.

Health will play the biggest role going forward how this season shapes out. I think we can take the division still, and I think Darnold is doing what we expected him to do, and we don't need him to be Patrick Mahomes to carry us to a Superbowl run, but he is playing efficient and that is all we can ask for. If we can get healthy and improve our pass defense and adjust, we can certainly have a surprising end to this season. The Eagles have barely won most of their games, and finally got exposed in the game against the Broncos.

If I had to rate the top teams currently in the NFC it would be

1)Lions
2)Bucs
3)Eagles
4)49ers
5)Packers
6)Seahawks
7)Cowboys
8)Rams

Like you said, the week 10 to 11 will shape it up better, but we are still in the mix, and our two close losses, which we had the last possession to win, came against top teams.

[Aseahawkfan]

I would add the Commanders in the NFC list, but we'll see around week 10.

I can't believe the Packers again will have another era with a top QB. They just keep on churning out top QBs. I can't even remember the last time Green Bay didn't have a competitive QB. While most teams are spending number 1 picks for QBs or trying to recycle them. How are they the only team to have such a great QB plan and are able to pick a high talent? Do they have some kind of secret blueprint? At least they seem not the best at building the rest of team around them.

[Oly]

Though Spoon plays more like a safety. I wonder if we can convert him to a safety as his physical play style and not great hands for interceptions might make him more valuable as a safety.

I had missed this the first time through. It's a really interesting idea. I doubt it would happen given he's been in the league a couple of years and is good in his position, but I see some of the same traits that made Earl elite. Speed, decisive breaking on the ball, unexpected physicality for his size. I don't really know about the mental stuff, though. Could he change the way he thinks and reacts instinctually? I'd imagine that way a safety occupies and controls space requires very different instincts and I'm not sure if he could make that transition. But still interesting idea.

[Aseahawkfan]

I had missed this the first time through. It's a really interesting idea. I doubt it would happen given he's been in the league a couple of years and is good in his position, but I see some of the same traits that made Earl elite. Speed, decisive breaking on the ball, unexpected physicality for his size. I don't really know about the mental stuff, though. Could he change the way he thinks and reacts instinctually? I'd imagine that way a safety occupies and controls space requires very different instincts and I'm not sure if he could make that transition. But still interesting idea.

Spoon has one interception in three years. He doesn't seem to have good instincts for the ball or good hands. He's a very aggressive corner that plays physically. That fits more the strong safety, though I guess he is too small for a strong safety. He's got a little bit of pass rushing ability. He seems ok with passes defensed. He's a good tackler usually. He plays like a strong safety at the corner position. I wonder if they could bulk him up some and move him to strong safety.

I guess we'll see in time. Corner in the NFL different than corner in college. If you can't intercept the ball, hard to be a top corner.

[River Dog]

I had missed this the first time through. It's a really interesting idea. I doubt it would happen given he's been in the league a couple of years and is good in his position, but I see some of the same traits that made Earl elite. Speed, decisive breaking on the ball, unexpected physicality for his size. I don't really know about the mental stuff, though. Could he change the way he thinks and reacts instinctually? I'd imagine that way a safety occupies and controls space requires very different instincts and I'm not sure if he could make that transition. But still interesting idea.

Spoon has one interception in three years. He doesn't seem to have good instincts for the ball or good hands. He's a very aggressive corner that plays physically. That fits more the strong safety, though I guess he is too small for a strong safety. He's got a little bit of pass rushing ability. He seems ok with passes defensed. He's a good tackler usually. He plays like a strong safety at the corner position. I wonder if they could bulk him up some and move him to strong safety.

I guess we'll see in time. Corner in the NFL different than corner in college. If you can't intercept the ball, hard to be a top corner.

Playing 'Spoon at strong safety matches him up against tight ends, and at 6'0 185lbs, he's pretty small to be going up against players that average 6'5" 250 lbs. Besides, we have a pretty darn good strong safety in the making with Nick E.

[NorthHawk]

This is the 2nd year of a totally different Defense from the Carroll years so it's going to be weak in spots. It's frustrating but barring an unbelievable off season it's the process that has to play out.
To repeat others, pass rush and LB are areas of real need along with quality depth in most positions but today DB with all of the injuries there.
It's lousy to have it exposed this year with the Division seemingly up for grabs but these are the cards we've been dealt.

[Aseahawkfan]

This is the 2nd year of a totally different Defense from the Carroll years so it's going to be weak in spots. It's frustrating but barring an unbelievable off season it's the process that has to play out.
To repeat others, pass rush and LB are areas of real need along with quality depth in most positions but today DB with all of the injuries there.
It's lousy to have it exposed this year with the Division seemingly up for grabs but these are the cards we've been dealt.

It's also not fun to see your 5th overall pick riding the bench hurt in year 3. You would prefer your 5th overall pick was showing yearly progress, not yearly decline.