TNF Cardinals hosting the Seahawks

[4XPIPS]

It should be an exciting game, as both teams are fighting for NFC West supremacy. Below is the recent injury report, posted 9 hours before I started this thread. This could change tomorrow.

Did not participate
T Josh Jones (ankle)
FB Robbie Ouzts (ankle)

Limited participation

TE Elijah Arroyo (groin)
S Nick Emmanwori (ankle)
S Julian Love (hamstring)
LB Boye Mafe (toe)
C Jalen Sundell (ankle, elbow)
DE Leonard Williams (elbow, shoulder)
CB Devon Witherspoon (knee)

Full participation

RB Zach Charbonnet (foot)
LB Ernest Jones IV (shoulder)

So it looks like we should be getting Spoon and Love back for this game, but nothing has been ruled at this time. I am still advocating for benching Woolen for Jobe, and using Kendrick on 3rd downs.

Hoping Ouzts injury is just precaution, but given a short week, I can see the team not risking getting him injured.

I know the Cardinals are missing key players as well, especially in their secondary; they are missing 3 starters. With Connor done for this season, Vegas has flipped us to a small favorite to win this game. These rival types of games can be rather close, but Connor is well-loved with the Cardinals, and I can see their team playing spiritedly for him.

I'm hoping we can get Walker back on a good outing this game, because last game his numbers were below average, and every big run he got was called back from a penalty. This should be a good game for Darnold with JSN/Kupp/Horton to exploit their hurt secondary. It will be exciting to see this one play out.

[NorthHawk]

It should be interesting.

I would think that not participating on Tuesday before a Thursday game would mean those players are probably out.
I'm hoping the others just have some bruising and after getting through this game the 10 days off will put them back on track. 3 extra days can be a real benefit for some injuries.

[River Dog]

Although still not in the category of a "signature win", tomorrow's game with the Cards should tell us if last Sunday represents the start of a trend or an anomaly. The Cards a decent but not great team. If we win decisively, we'll jump into the top 10 in the power rankings.

I'm hoping that we can get some sort of semblance of a ground game going. Zach Charbonnet should be a full go as he was a full participant in practice yesterday. According to both the PFF rankings and the eye test, our interior OL remains an issue, with all 3 positions ranking in the bottom half of the league.

I'm going to have to multitask as the Mariners first pitch is at 6:40 PT, or about the 2nd half of the Hawks game.

[NorthHawk]

The OL is a unit so even if 1 player is playing great the others not playing well means less productivity. The IOL is also a unit within the OL and even if Zabel is the best of the bunch, the others are probably holding this group back at the moment. But as was said in another post it's still early and they might get it together as a group. We could have had Tate Ratledge though who's starting on the Lions OL at RG but they went another way in the draft.

[4XPIPS]

As already posted, Ouzts is out, and Nick Emmanwori is listed now as Doubtful. I am not sure why they just didn't use IR 4 week tag on him, considering this will be he is 3rd game already missed. Anyhow, I watched the Jon Gruden 40 min vid on this game, and although it is very Jon Gruden talk, he did bring up interesting takes that I completely missed.

Takes

1)We have won the last 7 straight games against the Cardinals. I kind of forgot about this, but since Gannon has been the HC he has not beaten the Hawks ever. The last Cardinals win against us was win Colt McCoy came in late in the season and beat us at the CLINK 11/21/2021. We have not lost to the Cardinals in over 4 years.


2) Kyler Murray is 2- 8 vs the Seahawks, and his last win was at home 10/25/2020, and he had his best statistical game ever in his career. He was 34/48 365 yards, and 3 TDs and 1 INT, and his rushing, 14 attempts and 67 yards and 1TD. This game will always live on as this famous DK running down Buddha right before the half, the Hawks lost in OT. I was at this game!


3)Both the Cardinals and Seahawks are 1-5 each on TNF, so neither team has a good history playing on a short week. HOWEVER!! BIG HOWEVER, being that we are 1 win and 5 losses in our last 6 TNF games, that one win has been with Mike Macdonald as our HC, and we won last year with a baseball score of 6-3. Maybe Mike knows how to prepare his team better on a short week than Pete did.

4)Sam Darnold, snapping under under-center has the best passer rating in the league, vs taking snaps in shotgun or pistol. So playing heavy set formations, and snapping under center is a staple of the Kubiak system, and we run more out under center plays than most teams, and we are just slightly above the 49ers in player personnel taking snaps under center. However, to think Darnold's efficiency is much higher when he is under center is interesting, and play-action pass plays are 85% more effective when snapping under center. I expect this trend to continue.

[4XPIPS]

Zach is a go, and there was a discussion up to the bell if Anthony Bradford may or may not suit up and rookie Mason Richman may have gotten dressed for the game, but good news to have both of tailbacks back and ready to go along with Love and Spoon.

LETS GO HAWKS!

[Aseahawkfan]

Seahawks took care of business. Not a strong win, but a win.

[4XPIPS]

I will always take a win, especially on a short week, but the game should never have gotten to that point. A lot of good, and a lot of ugly in this game. Before the game kicked off I always felt we had the better roster, especially on defense, and Kyler isn't an elite QB, although he is being paid like one. Anyhow, this game got sideways real quick at the end, but glad we came out with a win and now have a few extra days to rest up for our week 5 home game against the Bucs.

The goods

It's time to recognize our defensive front 4. No matter who we rotate in, we are one of the best in the league. We are getting pressure with just rushing 4, and not having to blitz much. Murphy is stepping up, it was good to see Uchenna get in there, and of course, Big Cat and Mafe being disruptive. We got 6 sacks in this game, and caused Kyler to throw some errant passes, and could have had more INTS in this game.

Sam looked good, but wasn't asked to do much, and for the most part, it was nice to see a mix of AJ Barner and Elijah in there on big personnel, creating positive gains. I like how we are using our TEs more effectively in DBL TE sets, and still can open up the passing game.

The Ugly

Although we won, I am over Riq Woolen; he doesn't need to be benched, he needs to be cut. He has failed so many times when it comes to deep man-to-man coverage, and when he is beaten on a play, he is called for PI's almost every time. This wasn't just this game, but it's been like this for a while with him. These 4 games with Riq have been a disaster this season. He is a Pete Carroll-type of Corner, and just doesn't work anymore. He is becoming a liability in man coverage, and I would rather have Jobe and Kendrick out there.

Spoon has been disappointing, and I am harder on him because he is hyped up to be this superstar, and he is playing far from it. If you're going to talk the talk, then walk it. Got beat on a high point pass in the endzone to Marvin Harrison, and I can give him a slight pass on that as Marvin is bigger and Kyler put it high enough where Marvin can make that play, but again, a stud CB should make that play. Spoon had two critical missed tackles in the open field, one extended a drive, and the other was the final TD that Demercado got a pass in the flat, and all Spoon needs to do is tackle him. Demercado didn't do anything fancy, didn't juke, didn't highstep, he just ran for the corner of the endzone, and Spoon couldn't make an open field tackle. He needs to play better.

I have no idea what to make with Kenneth Walker at this point. This was one of the weirdest love-hate games for K9 I had to watch. There were plays where he would hit the hole and break off for a 15-yard run, and you get excited for it. Then he has a play where the blocking isn't there and maybe all he can get is 1 yard or no yards, but he decides to pause... back up... and try to create something with the defense crashing on him and takes a 4 to 5 yard loss. He did this quite a bit in this game and would put the offense in 2nd & 14/16. It was frustrating to watch. I think K9 is trying too hard to make a big splash run on every touch. Sometimes, all you can get is 1 yard or 2 yards, or no yards, but it's reckless for him to do that on every touch. It appeared in the game that one of the coaches was schooling him on this. Not to mention, he had a bonehead unsportsman like call that killed a drive and took us out of FG range.

All in all, it's good we came away with a win. A couple unfortunate things happened early that gave points, and left points on the table. The Cobe Bryant INT that we caused a fumble back to the Cards, that rarely happens, but kept their drive alive. The K9 personal foul call, which killed that drive. Kept it close early on, but our defense didn't let up and played exceptionally for the first 3.5 quarters. So still a lot to clean up, but looking better week after week.

[River Dog]

I'm luke warm about this victory. We should have won this game handily. Our defense played well, at least until the 4th quarter when we were playing with a lead. We kept Kyler Murray in check with some pretty consistent pressure, sacking Murray 6 times. And we came through in the end, with Darnold moving us into scoring position for a walk-off FG.

Sam Darnold played well. After watching how methodical and under control he plays, it's no wonder PFF has him as their top ranked QB. He managed the pocket well, made some good decisions, and didn't turn the ball over. He spread the ball around, completing passes to 8 different receivers.

But there were a lot of problems. I still don't understand how they failed to overturn that ruling on the fumble after the interception that gave the Cards their first FG. Had that call gone the other way, we would have shut them out in the first half and likely added at least another FG to our lead.

Our running game, especially our short yardage offense, still sucks. Some of the play calling was very questionable, like putting Darnold in the gun on 4th and inches then running a slow developing play. I don't understand why we're not using either Barner or Milroe on those short yardage plays. We were just 6-13 on 3rd down. Meyers missed a very makable 53-yard FG that would have virtually clinched the game as it would have given us a 2-score lead with a little over 3 minutes left.

So, now we have a mini bye, not playing again until a week from this Sunday at home vs. Tampa Bay.

[NorthHawk]

It's refreshing to see proper clock management.
The outside run game is OK but we're still weak up the middle. K9 looks better in this system because he can bounce it outside on interior run plays. If the holes opened up inside we would have better production from Zach.
The pass defense at times looks suspect. I don't recall seeing Kendrick last night - did he play much?
If the FG with about 2:30 left in the 4th quarter was good it wouldn't have ended so dramatically.
Maybe with the bad things that went on it was because of the short week. For me it makes it hard to figure out how well the players are playing because of the short preparation time and not being fully recovered from the last game.
The team might have been a bit arrogant after last weeks blowout. Young players do that some time.

[c_hawkbob]

I got no problem with this game; our defense was/is outstanding, individual dipsh!tery not withstanding, and our offense did what they needed to do against a pretty damn good defense themselves. Yeah it got more interesting in the last 6 minutes than it needed to but it was still a division win on the road in a short week. We're in a good place and moving in the right direction.

[NorthHawk]

Kyler Murray runs like the Ginger Bread Man.

[River Dog]

The good news is that we have a mini bye coming at a good time, getting Charbs better healed, Nick E back in the fold, and so on.

One of the things I want to add to 4XPIPS ugly section is JSN's stupid ass USC taunting penalty, tossing the ball at a defender right in front of the ref. He probably had a good reason as they sort of gave his leg a little twist, but the ball toss was long enough after that had happened to where he should have been able to let it go. Hopefully, our entire team learns a lesson from that mistake. The refs aren't going to put up with that crapola.

[NorthHawk]

JSN also almost got a penalty when he called the holding call a load of bullshit and the Ref's mic was open. I agree with him, but players can't do that at critical times.

[4XPIPS]

It's refreshing to see proper clock management.
The outside run game is OK but we're still weak up the middle. K9 looks better in this system because he can bounce it outside on interior run plays. If the holes opened up inside we would have better production from Zach.
The pass defense at times looks suspect. I don't recall seeing Kendrick last night - did he play much?
If the FG with about 2:30 left in the 4th quarter was good it wouldn't have ended so dramatically.
Maybe with the bad things that went on it was because of the short week. For me it makes it hard to figure out how well the players are playing because of the short preparation time and not being fully recovered from the last game.
The team might have been a bit arrogant after last weeks blowout. Young players do that some time.

Kendrick was not active for the game because of Love and Spoon coming back, but to further my point, I would rather have him on than Riq.

[4XPIPS]

The good news is that we have a mini bye coming at a good time, getting Charbs better healed, Nick E back in the fold, and so on.

One of the things I want to add to 4XPIPS ugly section is JSN's stupid ass USC taunting penalty, tossing the ball at a defender right in front of the ref. He probably had a good reason as they sort of gave his leg a little twist, but the ball toss was long enough after that had happened to where he should have been able to let it go. Hopefully, our entire team learns a lesson from that mistake. The refs aren't going to put up with that crapola.

Correct in that it was a boneheaded play to cause a unsportsman like penalty and kill that drive, but that was K9 that committed that, not JSN. JSN was pretty much a non-participant in the first half because the way the defense was bracketing a high-low coverage on him, which opened up the game for the TEs and Kupp to be productive in the first half.

On your prior post about the Barner tush push, I couldn't agree more. It has been 100% successful to this point, and this is a copycat league, so if it's working for the defending SB team, why not use it when it's 4th and less than a yard?

[River Dog]

The good news is that we have a mini bye coming at a good time, getting Charbs better healed, Nick E back in the fold, and so on.

One of the things I want to add to 4XPIPS ugly section is JSN's stupid ass USC taunting penalty, tossing the ball at a defender right in front of the ref. He probably had a good reason as they sort of gave his leg a little twist, but the ball toss was long enough after that had happened to where he should have been able to let it go. Hopefully, our entire team learns a lesson from that mistake. The refs aren't going to put up with that crapola.

Correct in that it was a boneheaded play to cause a unsportsman like penalty and kill that drive, but that was K9 that committed that, not JSN. JSN was pretty much a non-participant in the first half because the way the defense was bracketing a high-low coverage on him, which opened up the game for the TEs and Kupp to be productive in the first half.

On your prior post about the Barner tush push, I couldn't agree more. It has been 100% successful to this point, and this is a copycat league, so if it's working for the defending SB team, why not use it when it's 4th and less than a yard?

Geez, thanks for keeping me straight . Not sure how I got JSN mixed up with K9. I must have added two to the jersey number.

And yes, JSN had a quiet first half. I don't even think he got any targets. But he sure came through for us in the 4th quarter. Or was that K9?

[Aseahawkfan]

If JSN had a QB like Mahomes throwing to him, he'd be one of the best receivers in the league. That dude is great. A perfect all around receiver.

[River Dog]

If JSN had a QB like Mahomes throwing to him, he'd be one of the best receivers in the league. That dude is great. A perfect all around receiver.

Yes, JSN come into his own. But let's not slight Sam Darnold by saying Mahomes would make him a better receiver. Despite playing behind a shaky OL and ho hum running game, Darnold's done everything right and was money last night in that drive to get us into FG range. I kept thinking on that last drive that if Geno were there, he'd find some way to screw it up. Did you take a peek at those PFF rankings I posted?

[Aseahawkfan]

Yes, JSN come into his own. But let's not slight Sam Darnold by saying Mahomes would make him a better receiver. Despite playing behind a shaky OL and ho hum running game, Darnold's done everything right and was money last night in that drive to get us into FG range. I kept thinking on that last drive that if Geno were there, he'd find some way to screw it up. Did you take a peek at those PFF rankings I posted?

I do not believe this at all. I believe Darnold will hold us back like Geno. If we had an elite QB like Mahomes or Allen or Prime Russell, we would truly see how great JSN is.

I don't buy those rankings much. I'm glad you enjoy them, but they mean nothing to me. Any ranking claiming Darnold is better than Mahomes or Allen or Herbert or any of the guys with elite ability are being skewed by weak competition or other factors. JSN is going to be held back until John Schneider picks an elite QB. It's that simple for me. No amount of rankings or beating of weak teams is going to make me think Darnold is the man. He ain't and won't ever be. He's going to hold back JSN like Geno held back DK. I want a real elite QB while JSN is in his prime to make JSN shine like Peyton made Marvin Harrison shine and Brady made Randy Moss shine. Good receivers make QBs like Darnold look better than they are, but great QBs combined with a great receiver like JSN make the entire offense look amazing. That's what I'd like to see this time before JSN ages out and becomes trade bait like DK.

It's like the guys trying to convince us all that Frisco QB is great. He's the definition of game manager. He's doing amazing for being the last pick in the draft, but he isn't elite and is going to have a real hard time winning a Super Bowl without elite talent around him.

I want a real elite QB. A high performing young stud that can build with JSN and those two young TEs to make an offensive monster to go with the much improved defense.

That's what I want. That's what I dream of. Darnold is ok to watch. If Darnold were really great, we would have crushed the Cardinals, beaten the 49ers, and be a team on par with any in the league. That position is still holding us back.

[Stream Hawk]

If JSN had a QB like Mahomes throwing to him, he'd be one of the best receivers in the league. That dude is great. A perfect all around receiver.

Correct that JSN would be pretty amazing with KC. He is a legit wr, that may become legendary here. But do not discount Darnold, as he is having a pretty damn good start to the season. In fact, maybe even better than Mr. Pat himself?

[Aseahawkfan]

Correct that JSN would be pretty amazing with KC. He is a legit wr, that may become legendary here. But do not discount Darnold, as he is having a pretty damn good start to the season. In fact, maybe even better than Mr. Pat himself?

Mahomes is having a bad start for whatever reason. KC isn't the dominant team they were. Mahomes is still Mahomes. Give him a JSN and he'll shine. He's got an aging offense and that team likely needs some new talent infusion.

[NorthHawk]

Their Offensive Line is killing them. They let their All Pro Guard (who moved to LT in last years playoffs) go and haven't drafted OL well for the last few years. Sounds familiar, doesn't it but it's because of Cap space limitations unlike us who don't have an excuse.

[River Dog]

Their (Chiefs) Offensive Line is killing them. They let their All Pro Guard (who moved to LT in last years playoffs) go and haven't drafted OL well for the last few years. Sounds familiar, doesn't it but it's because of Cap space limitations unlike us who don't have an excuse.

IMO the Chiefs were overrated last season as they won several games that they had no business winning, and it showed up in the Super Bowl as the Eagles cleaned their clock. Their luck is starting to run out this season as they aren't catching the breaks they did last year. They also started out the season with a couple of very good teams, the Chargers and the defending SB champ Eagles, two teams that are a combined 6-0 so far in 2025. Plus, Mahomes hasn't been playing well, ranking in the bottom third of starting QB's in passer rating.

IMO we're witnessing a changing of the guard in the AFC West. I've been a big critic of Jim Hairball, but he has the Chargers playing championship quality football. Justin Herbert is playing lights out, finally living up to his hype coming out of college. The Chiefs probably have enough gas left in the tank to make the playoffs, but IMO the Chargers will displace them atop the division.

[NorthHawk]

Denver is also going through a bit of a rough patch - or maybe last year they were playing above their abilities from about the half way point of the season. Things tend to even out so it wouldn't be the first time that a team did well the end of one year and then struggled at the start of the next.

Herbert is playing well because the situation allows him to do what he does best. It doesn't rely on him being the hero every play, but it allows him to come up with big plays at important times and he's showing he can make the jump up when his team needs it.

[c_hawkbob]

Sam Schwartzstein, the analytics expert on Thursday Night Football called JSN the best receiver in football during the broadcast.

[NorthHawk]

Sam Schwartzstein, the analytics expert on Thursday Night Football called JSN the best receiver in football during the broadcast.

JSN's play is as silky smooth as it was in College. Not all players can make that transition while making it look the same - and easy.

[River Dog]

A lot of people were saying that the reason JSN flourished last year was due to the presence of DK Metcalf, that teams were devoting their best CB to him, that Metcalf's deep threat is what opens things up for JSN, blah, blah, blah. Well, despite not even being targeted in the first half of the Cards game, JSN is 2nd in the league in receiving YPG, 3rd in receptions, and tied for first in receiving first downs. To be fair, JSN's numbers are from 4 games played while most of the rest have just 3 games under their belts, but nevertheless, those are some pretty impressive stats for someone that was supposedly propped up by a deep threat WR.

And, PFF has him as the #2 ranked WR behind the Rams' Puka Nacua.

[Aseahawkfan]

I don't like to use insane comparisons, but JSN reminds me of Steve Largent or Jerry Rice. Crisp route running, enough speed, great hands, all work mentality, and catches about everything thrown in his vicinity. I thought he might have trouble with DK and Tyler gone, but he's just too good on his own to be stopped. You get that ball near the spot where he can catch it, he's gonna catch it. Probably John's best draft pick in years.

[River Dog]

I don't like to use insane comparisons, but JSN reminds me of Steve Largent or Jerry Rice. Crisp route running, enough speed, great hands, all work mentality, and catches about everything thrown in his vicinity. I thought he might have trouble with DK and Tyler gone, but he's just too good on his own to be stopped. You get that ball near the spot where he can catch it, he's gonna catch it. Probably John's best draft pick in years.

Yeah, and I'll go on record right now in admitting that I was wrong. I didn't like the pick, thought that we were devoting too many resources to wide receivers at the expense of the big uglies. I wanted an offensive or defensive lineman.

I still have that overall philosophy, but JSN is a heck of a ball player, and is proving himself this season. I'm not going to compare him to Largent or Rice, but he's playing as good or better than any receiver in the league.

I like the fact that he's paired with Cooper Kupp, who is one of the best route runners in the league with a very savvy football mind. If Kupp is a good mentor-type, and not every player is, he can really help JSN.

[Aseahawkfan]

Yeah, and I'll go on record right now in admitting that I was wrong. I didn't like the pick, thought that we were devoting too many resources to wide receivers at the expense of the big uglies. I wanted an offensive or defensive lineman.

I still have that overall philosophy, but JSN is a heck of a ball player, and is proving himself this season. I'm not going to compare him to Largent or Rice, but he's playing as good or better than any receiver in the league.

I like the fact that he's paired with Cooper Kupp, who is one of the best route runners in the league with a very savvy football mind. If Kupp is a good mentor-type, and not every player is, he can really help JSN.

I like that our D-line seems to be doing well. I love a strong D-line more than almost any other unit. But until we face a top O-line like Philly, hard to know just how good they are. I don't even know who is good anymore besides Philly and Buffalo and maybe San Diego.