Training Camp Battles

[Irish Greg 2.0]

Camp is only a week away (finally)! I thought it would be fun to look at some of the camp battles coming up. What is interesting this time around is - we have yet another new system (third in three seasons), a new OC (Klint Kubiak), new OL line coach (John Benton), new run game coordinator/senior offensive assistant (Rick Dennison), new QB coach (Andrew Janocko), new run game specialist/assistant OL (Justin Outten), new offensive assistant (Michael Byrne). Kubiak, Benton, Dennison, Janocko and Byrne all coached together in New Orleans last season; Outten comes over from Tennessee. Why this is interesting in the context of positions is - we really don't know which skill sets are going to fit the offensive model. Right away, Kubiak talked about using a fullback. Which receivers fit his scheme? Tight ends? We know that the offense is outside zone, which will definitely impact the OL decisions as well.

QB
New acquisition Sam Darnold is clearly the starter, and I think Drew Lock will be the #2. However, 3rd round pick and phenom Jalen Milroe will get a package of plays every game - whether he is on the 53 or just elevated for game days is to be seen, and more dependent on the peripheral roster needs.

RB
Can Ken Walker stay healthy? Does Zach Charbonnet push him for starter reps?

Kenny McIntosh seems like a good player to me, and finally got a chance to show he can play a little last season (5.5 ypc over 31 attempts). George Holani is back, and Damien Martinez was drafted in the 7th round.

FB/H-BACK
Brady Russell vs Robbie Ouzts (R)

-As mentioned, Kubiak has said we will be featuring a fullback/H-back much more in this offense.

WR
Likely 6 spots to fill. JSN, Cooper Kupp and Jake Bobo are likely set at this point. Marquez Valdes-Scantling is probably the 4th at this point, and he shows some flourishes in this system in New Orleans. Obviously, the bottom of the WR depth will need to be guys who can play special teams.

After that, there is a lot of competition. You have Dareke Young, who has mostly played specials and has never really flashed as a receiver; Steven Sims, a free agent from the Ravens who is likely mostly a returner; Cody White, who seems to have a knack for the game and always makes plays when given a chance; 5th round pick Tory Horton (my rookie crush), who has a lot of upside; 7th round pick Ricky White, who can also return kicks; former QB John Rhys Plumlee, who is making the shift to WR; UDFA Tyrone Broden (who is 6'7"); and UDFA Montorie Foster.

TE
Noah Fant is the incumbent starter, but also has a cap hit of $13.4 million this season. AJ Barner, who showed some play making last season, is back for his second season. Eric Saubert was signed from the 49ers. Elijah Arroyo was drafted in the 2nd round. You also have UDFAs Marshall Lang and Nick Kallerup.

Barner is the in line guy (Y). Fant is "supposed" to be the game breaker, but I think they envision Arroyo becoming that guy - and his roster spot is secure considering his draft slot.

If they keep a 4th, do they call Russell a TE and just play him at FB/H-back? I don't see room for Saubert to stick, and the UDFAs are probably looking to land on the P.S.

OL
LT (Charles Cross) and RT (Abe Lucas) are set in stone. Then, the fun begins.

LG-C-RG is going to be very intriguing. Right now, it seems like it's our #1 draft pick Gray Zabel - Olu Oluwatimi - and either Christian Haynes or Anthony Bradford. This is where the outside zone will help shape decisions. Is Bradford cut out to be a outside zone guy?

After OTAs and mini camp, there has been lots of buzz in the media circles about Jalen Sundell winning the starting center spot. Keep an eye on him. I think they would love for Haynes to grasp the starting spot, but Sataoa Laumea will have a chance to claim it, too.

Draft picks Bryce Cabeldue and Mason Richman are guys to keep an eye on as well. A lot of pundits were high on Cabeldue, specifically, for his upside.

**Keep in mind, the Seahaws currently have about $28M in cap space on the books (after adding Shaquill Griffin at $3M). Second rounders Nick Emmanwori and Arroyo have not been signed yet. I wouldn't be shocked to see them either scan for a veteran OL cut later into camp, or even make a trade.


DL
This is also going to be intriguing to watch how it shakes out. They brought in Demarcus Lawrence from the Cowpies, who will pair very nicely with Big Cat in the dual run stopping/pass rush role. I think they will experiment with Byron Murphy at 3T and maybe even other spots. Jarran Reed is back, as is Johnathan Hankins. They drafted Rylie Mills, who has a lot of upside, but I am not sure where he will be coming off of his injury at Notre Dame. They need to figure out Mike Morris, who has been a complete non-factor and who might have a tough time making the final 53.

LB
Lots of options here. Ernest Jones is back as the defensive QB. Tyrice Knight is back for his second year.

The rush backers are Uchenna Nwosu, Boye Mafe, and Derick Hall. Is Nwosu finally 100%? He took a pay cut to stay with the team, and eyes are on him. Mafe has shown an ability to start out very strong but then fade down the stretch. Hall emerged last season (8 sacks, lots of pressures, and a defensive TD).

**A dark horse guy to watch as a pass rusher is DE Jared Ivey, a UDFA. This dude can ball.

I think Macdonald and Durde will be focused on finding the right mix and package composition this summer, both with the DTs, the run stopping, and the pass rush.

DBs
Lots of possibility with this group, as well. Spoon is the Alpha, but I think they will continue to use him as a hybrid type vs traditional coverage guy. Can Riq Woolen be more consistent? Will Josh Jobe take another step? They brought in Griffin and Shemar Jean-Charles (from New Orleans). Will Nehemiah Pritchett elevate?

The safety group is strong with starters Julian Love and Coby Bryant, who finally found a home. They drafted the athletically gifted Emmanwori in the 2nd round, and will look to get him on the field as much as possible as a roaming safety, box safety, and even as a pass rusher (I believe). Veteran D'Anthony Bell was brought in from Cleveland.

Spoon is the primary Nickel guy for now, but Damarion Williams (former Raven and member of the Hawks P.S. last season) and Tyler Hall (Hawks P.S. last season) will have a chance to find reps there, too.

Which position battles do you find most interesting?

[River Dog]

The QB position is obviously the most highlighted, so that one will almost certainly will command the most attention. I'm not so sure that Lock will be the back-up and would expect him to get cut as not many teams carry 3 QB's. IMO we'll see a lot of Milroe on short yardage situations, much like the Steelers utilized Justin Fields after Russell returned. The big rap on him is his accuracy, so that will be something to watch.

I'll be interested in how our rookie free safety, Nick Emmanwori, looks like. For me, he's the most intriguing of our draft picks and sounds like another Kam Chancellor.

I'm not much interested in training camps. I got so tired of all those glowing reports that turned out to be fool's gold. I'll pay somewhat more attention during the preseason.

[NorthHawk]

I heard a comment that Mlroe's progress was like night and day from a fundamentals PoV and he has obviously put in a lot of work. His accuracy had improved and he looked like he knew what he was doing.

I'm intrigued by Damien Martinez. I've heard some good things about him and his running style.

Arroyo at TE will be a big change (if they ever get him signed) as he's a real move type TE that gives an Offense an added dimension. Barner might be a surprise, too with a season under his belt.

With an emphasis on the run game, I'm not sure the WR group will be as prominent as it has been and may be part of why the FO agreed so quickly to trade DK.

On the OL side, I'm glad they addressed the LG spot but Zabel will struggle at times playing at this level until he learns what is required and adapts. I'm disappointed that they didn't go after a Center and/or RG because the IOL has been such a basket case for the better part of a decade. With a better coaching staff, this group should be better even with the possible soft area of C/RG. Maybe Bradford can take that next step - he did do well in College blocking in the Outside Zone scheme and he's said to have lost some weight to make him a little quicker. Late round OL draft picks? I hope they stick, but we don't have much of a history of selecting competent players in the late rounds.

Cap space is maybe JS hoping he can make a deal for Hendrickson and sign him for a longer term than the Bengals want to.

DL should be much improved with Murphy settled and knowing what his role is right from the start. Hankins played a lot last year and he wore down near the end but if Murphy can stay healthy all year that should take some snaps from him.
But that depends on whether MacDonald wants to use either at DT or NT. If Mills gets healthy he could be the steal of this draft but I don't expect much from him this year.

LBs are interesting. The Seahawks haven't discussed an extension with Mafe so he might be on the bubble and MacDonald is said to really like Hall. Earnest Jones is underrated in my opinion.

Wollen might be the most frustrating DB to coach with his talent but he sometimes seems to lose his focus. Maybe he isn't studying enough or thinks his talent will just hand him the starting job. He might be in for a surprise if it annoys MM too much.

I will be most interested in how the Offense changes and its development over the course of the year. It might be fun to watch.

[Irish Greg 2.0]

I heard a comment that Mlroe's progress was like night and day from a fundamentals PoV and he has obviously put in a lot of work. His accuracy had improved and he looked like he knew what he was doing.

I'm intrigued by Damien Martinez. I've heard some good things about him and his running style.

Arroyo at TE will be a big change (if they ever get him signed) as he's a real move type TE that gives an Offense an added dimension. Barner might be a surprise, too with a season under his belt.

With an emphasis on the run game, I'm not sure the WR group will be as prominent as it has been and may be part of why the FO agreed so quickly to trade DK.

On the OL side, I'm glad they addressed the LG spot but Zabel will struggle at times playing at this level until he learns what is required and adapts. I'm disappointed that they didn't go after a Center and/or RG because the IOL has been such a basket case for the better part of a decade. With a better coaching staff, this group should be better even with the possible soft area of C/RG. Maybe Bradford can take that next step - he did do well in College blocking in the Outside Zone scheme and he's said to have lost some weight to make him a little quicker. Late round OL draft picks? I hope they stick, but we don't have much of a history of selecting competent players in the late rounds.

Cap space is maybe JS hoping he can make a deal for Hendrickson and sign him for a longer term than the Bengals want to.

DL should be much improved with Murphy settled and knowing what his role is right from the start. Hankins played a lot last year and he wore down near the end but if Murphy can stay healthy all year that should take some snaps from him.
But that depends on whether MacDonald wants to use either at DT or NT. If Mills gets healthy he could be the steal of this draft but I don't expect much from him this year.

LBs are interesting. The Seahawks haven't discussed an extension with Mafe so he might be on the bubble and MacDonald is said to really like Hall. Earnest Jones is underrated in my opinion.

Wollen might be the most frustrating DB to coach with his talent but he sometimes seems to lose his focus. Maybe he isn't studying enough or thinks his talent will just hand him the starting job. He might be in for a surprise if it annoys MM too much.

I will be most interested in how the Offense changes and its development over the course of the year. It might be fun to watch.

On the OL, I think they are counting on the new scheme and new coaches to leverage improvement from guys currently on the roster. I still think they may add a vet after cuts.

The problem with Mafe is that he starts strong and then fades down the stretch, which has happened the last two seasons. He needs to show a lot more consistency for them to throw money at him on an extension.

[NorthHawk]

We've had some real good OL coaches in the past who couldn't do anything with the players we had. I'm hopeful ( just like the last 11 years) but I'm not holding my breath. For me there is too much doubt at the moment about the IOL to really get behind this Offense.

Mafe has some potential but that only gets a player so far. He has to prove he can play at a high level for like you said a whole year.

[Irish Greg 2.0]

We've had some real good OL coaches in the past who couldn't do anything with the players we had. I'm hopeful ( just like the last 11 years) but I'm not holding my breath. For me there is too much doubt at the moment about the IOL to really get behind this Offense.

Mafe has some potential but that only gets a player so far. He has to prove he can play at a high level for like you said a whole year.

But the last two OCs and O line coach combos (Grubb/Huff and Waldron/Dickerson) were not good. For OL coaches, Solari was the last good one we had.

I have a high degree of confidence in Kubiak/Benton/Dennison/Outten to elevate.

[NorthHawk]

Yes. Last year was a disaster, but our history is pretty poor and I put it down to JS not providing the horses to actually improve. We still haven't replaced Unger with a Center that can start and play at a reasonable level in 11 years and he's bypassed future Pro Bowlers during that time often for depth players. Will there be a competition between Olu and Sundell or will Maranges surprise or will it simply be starting the best of a bad lot?
History would say it will be the latter but maybe this staff can get more out of them than I expect. That's a lot of hoping in an area that's in dire need of improvement and opposing Defensive Lines will really test whoever starts inside.

[Irish Greg 2.0]

Yes. Last year was a disaster, but our history is pretty poor and I put it down to JS not providing the horses to actually improve. We still haven't replaced Unger with a Center that can start and play at a reasonable level in 11 years and he's bypassed future Pro Bowlers during that time often for depth players. Will there be a competition between Olu and Sundell or will Maranges surprise or will it simply be starting the best of a bad lot?
History would say it will be the latter but maybe this staff can get more out of them than I expect. That's a lot of hoping in an area that's in dire need of improvement and opposing Defensive Lines will really test whoever starts inside.

For sure. I am no JS fan - I think he was hugely propped up by a couple of incredibly fortunate drafts and a lot of that was Pete.

At center, the buzz seems to be that Sundell is going to win the job. Olu seems decent, but we definitely need an upgrade. They had hoped Connor Williams would be the guy last season.

If only we could have had a chance at Creed Humphrey instead of Dee frigging Eskridge... oh wait.

I would have gotten rid of JS years ago. But he certainly needs to go after this season if we have yet another s*** show O line.

[River Dog]

For sure. I am no JS fan - I think he was hugely propped up by a couple of incredibly fortunate drafts and a lot of that was Pete.

At center, the buzz seems to be that Sundell is going to win the job. Olu seems decent, but we definitely need an upgrade. They had hoped Connor Williams would be the guy last season.

If only we could have had a chance at Creed Humphrey instead of Dee frigging Eskridge... oh wait.

I would have gotten rid of JS years ago. But he certainly needs to go after this season if we have yet another s*** show O line.

The selection of Eskridge over Humphrey wasn't the only problem with that draft. We went into it with just 3 picks. Granted, that was the draft following the pandemic season but putting yourself in a situation where you have that few picks is unacceptable. With no first rounder, we burned our highest pick on a player who at best would have been a #3 WR.

I'm not a huge JS fan, either, but it was unclear to me who was to blame for the OL woes, him or Pete, so I'm willing to cut him some slack. But if we don't show some progress this season, I'll be off the bandwagon. He had plenty of resources in the offseason and hasn't done much with regard to pursuing free agent OL's.

Olu is a weak link, not the bulldozer center we're going to need if we want to become a run-first offense. I'd love to see Sundell beat him out.

[NorthHawk]

What I’ve read about Kubiak’s Offense is he wants the quicker IOL and not so much the bulldozer types. Bradford has apparently lost some weight and MacDonald thought it was an improvement. I don’t know if that means much or not but if would be consistent with an aim for a quicker IOL.

[c_hawkbob]

Good stuff in here lately Greg (especially this one) thanks! Sorry I haven't been able to contribute much but I'm in my last couple weeks before retirement an I've got too many things going on to do much more than peruse right now.

[River Dog]

Good stuff in here lately Greg (especially this one) thanks! Sorry I haven't been able to contribute much but I'm in my last couple weeks before retirement an I've got too many things going on to do much more than peruse right now.

Welcome to the rocking chair, Bro! Congratulations!

[c_hawkbob]

Thanks man, looking forward to it!

[NorthHawk]

Congrats Bob.

It's 11 years retired for me on August 1st. It's a bit of an adjustment in both pay and extra time and how to apportion it, but if you have a big family nearby, you probably won't get much time to rest at first.
Enjoy it. You've earned it.

[River Dog]

Congrats Bob.

It's 11 years retired for me on August 1st. It's a bit of an adjustment in both pay and extra time and how to apportion it, but if you have a big family nearby, you probably won't get much time to rest at first.
Enjoy it. You've earned it.

I officially retired on April 1st, 2018: April Fool's Day! How appropriate.

One of the things that retirement has done to me is that it's turned me into a huge procrastinator. It used to be that when I had a project I was working on, there was a sense of urgency to get it done on my days/time off. But now, if I get the slightest bit tired or bored, I say to myself "screw it, I'll finish it tomorrow."

Sorry to divert the thread, but Cbob deserves it. Hopefully retirement will provide him with more time to contribute to our little group.

[NorthHawk]

On that note I knew of a lady who when she retired she made a calendar of what she wanted to do each day for about 6 months to ease into retirement.
She scheduled a time allotment for each thing she wanted to do each day and at what time. I'm not that organized or ambitious but like you I have a bunch of half done projects just waiting for me to get enthusiastic about them again.

[River Dog]

On that note I knew of a lady who when she retired she made a calendar of what she wanted to do each day for about 6 months to ease into retirement.
She scheduled a time allotment for each thing she wanted to do each day and at what time. I'm not that organized or ambitious but like you I have a bunch of half done projects just waiting for me to get enthusiastic about them again.

Whenever someone tells me "Have a nice weekend!", I'll be a smart ass and reply: "What's a weekend?", then answer my own question by saying "Oh, wait, I remember! That's when working stiffs get a couple of days off, right?" My wife hates it when I do that, refuses to go anywhere with me on a Friday.

[Irish Greg 2.0]

Good stuff in here lately Greg (especially this one) thanks! Sorry I haven't been able to contribute much but I'm in my last couple weeks before retirement an I've got too many things going on to do much more than peruse right now.

CONGRATS!