Offseason Defenseive Talk Only

[4XPIPS]

This part of the year things tend to get quiet. I was wondering what everyone's thoughts were with the defense under our new HC. Personally I am satisfied as we made some strides to improve, but not overjoyed because at times we seem to get picked apart. I like the direction we are going, but I think we are two seasons away from being a top 5 defense, and I am confident MM can get us there. The only sort of disappointment was Byron Murphy, as he was considered a can't miss pick. I know he is a rookie, and I wouldn't say he was a major disappointment, but I was just expecting a little more from him considering he was selected in the 1st round. It's tough to see guys like Cooper Dejean get selected in the 2nd round, and set the league on fire.

[NorthHawk]

My thoughts are that the first year is a feeling out type of season with the new coaches trying to understand who plays well within the new scheme and who has the potential to excel but hasn't been used much in it.
So it's going to take a couple of years before the players settle in and everyone is on the same page. We saw a little of that last year when the Defense was getting better as the year wore on, but there are still some holes to fill and changes to be made.
In general I think it's been a good step forward for the Defense and expect it to get even more consistent and better in most areas this year.

[River Dog]

Just for what it's worth, here's how PFF ranked our defensive players by position:

CB-116 ranked. Devon Witherspoon, #12. Tariq Woolen, #44. Josh Jobe, #107.

Safety-98 ranked. Julian Love, #7. Coby Bryant, #22. Rayshawn Jenkins, #87.

Linebacker-84 ranked. Tyrice Knight, #41. Ernest Jones, #54.

DT-118 ranked. Leonard Williams, #4. Jarran Reed, #21. Byron Murphy, #60. Roy Robinson-Harris #81. Jonathan Hankins, #115.

DE/Edge-119 ranked. Boye Mafe, #24. Derrick Hall, #77. Dre Mont Jones, #97.

That would seem to meet the eye test as the strength of our defense was clearly in the secondary, although there were some holes in it. Leonard Williams had a fantastic, DPOY worthy season, and that's reflected in his #4 overall ranking, the highest position ranking of any player on our team, offense and defense. And yes, Murphy was a bit of a disappointment.

We definitely need to upgrade the linebacker position, and we could use another edge rusher (who doesn't?). We need to move on from Woolen, give someone else his playing time. He's been benched by two completely different coaching staffs in each of the last two seasons.

[NorthHawk]

I think Earnest Jones is better than ranked - maybe because he fits this Defense quite well. I think our Defense started to play a lot better once he was signed and he had some really good games.

[c_hawkbob]

My homer draft target this year is Deone Walker, DT out of Kentucky. He's 6'7, 340, great lateral quickness, solid against the run and even better inside pass rush. Starter since his freshman year (started 36 of 37 games I believe) and 2 years team captain. Would be a great 2nd round pick but not really a reach in the first.

[NorthHawk]

That's pretty tall for a DT. I hope he watches film of Calais Campbell to see how he counters the leverage advantage of shorter OL.
He might be worth a 2nd day pick or early 3rd if he's still on the board.

[River Dog]

That's pretty tall for a DT. I hope he watches film of Calais Campbell to see how he counters the leverage advantage of shorter OL.
He might be worth a 2nd day pick or early 3rd if he's still on the board.

Yeah, good point, especially if you're going to be playing the Eagles and try to defend against the Tush Push or Brotherly Shove. You need a DT shaped like a bowling ball for those situations.

[Irish Greg 2.0]

I think the defense showed good progress. When they simplified things and then acquired a legit Mike (Jones), the defense looked much better. I am surprised that they haven't re-signed Jones yet, but they still have a few weeks before FA kicks off.

Its going to take a few seasons to get Macdonald's vision for his defense matched to the right players.

There are a lot of ways to assess DTs, bit IMO Murphy was a disappointment. I think they need to move him to a different position (maybe 3-tech?). It's way too early to bail on him, but for a top-20 pick and comparisons to Donald, it's hard not to feel let down. He definitely opened things up for Leonard Williams and others, but I need to see more pocket penetration and disruption.

During his interview at the combine yesterday, JS mentioned wanting more speed on defense. I think they will probably move on from Dre'Mont Jones (massive cap hit) and possibly Uchenna Nwosu, and look to upgrade the edge talent. I also think they will move on from Rayshawn Jenkins and look for a young, violent, and fast assassin at Safety.

[Irish Greg 2.0]

Regarding moving on from Jenkins, as I alluded to:

https://x.com/Schultz_Report/status/1895210744356184179

[NorthHawk]

I would think there are a number of players that don't fit what MacDonald wants to do on Defense but are possible starters or good backups in other schemes.
Offense will probably be similar with a new OC and his philosophies/schemes.
It's another year of discovery and change.

[Irish Greg 2.0]

I would think there are a number of players that don't fit what MacDonald wants to do on Defense but are possible starters or good backups in other schemes.
Offense will probably be similar with a new OC and his philosophies/schemes.
It's another year of discovery and change.

That's exactly right, which is why I said it will take a few years to fully integrate his defense. He assumed a lot of players on the roster that he had to sift through and see if they were going to work.

[NorthHawk]

Knowing this would be the case after the firing of Carroll I'm not disappointed in the Defense. And I'm not at all worried about Murphy as I think he was asked to do some different things by the coaches to determine his abilities and limits.
He was essentially drafted as part of fixing the run defense, and I think there has been some improvement there and he wasn't much of a pass rusher in College against top OL's so that was a known. I think he's going to be a much more consistent player this year as he can focus on his technique and not have to adjust to the speed and power of the NFL along with how to handle the longer season.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm not disappointed in Murphy. He's not Aaron Donald, never put up Aaron Donald stats, and I picture him more as Brandon Mebane with maybe a higher upside. He is there to anchor the line against the run, not for pass rush ability. Run defense was improved, but we still need better backers to shut the run down as Murphy can only do so much anchoring the line. The backers have to make the tackle and read where the runner is going hitting him in the hole.

[Oly]

I'm not disappointed in Murphy. He's not Aaron Donald, never put up Aaron Donald stats, and I picture him more as Brandon Mebane with maybe a higher upside. He is there to anchor the line against the run, not for pass rush ability. Run defense was improved, but we still need better backers to shut the run down as Murphy can only do so much anchoring the line. The backers have to make the tackle and read where the runner is going hitting him in the hole.

This is my take. I like the "higher upside Mebane" line...that feels right to me. I also feel like that position is particularly tough for rookies because of the number of double teams Murphy had to face. I looked at some of Jalen Carter's highlights, and the vast majority are when he's 1-on-1 against the guard. That's not how Murphy was used, so I hesitate to expect more flashy plays. I think more time in an NFL weight room and hand technique will help him improve next year.

[Irish Greg 2.0]

I'm not disappointed in Murphy. He's not Aaron Donald, never put up Aaron Donald stats, and I picture him more as Brandon Mebane with maybe a higher upside. He is there to anchor the line against the run, not for pass rush ability. Run defense was improved, but we still need better backers to shut the run down as Murphy can only do so much anchoring the line. The backers have to make the tackle and read where the runner is going hitting him in the hole.

That's fair. My only real counter is it's kind of hard to digest using the 16th overall pick on a run-stuffing DT. You want a lot more bang for your buck expending that draft capital.

I still think he is playing out of position. I am hoping they get a real 1-tech anchor and use him more as a 3-tech.

[Oly]

I still think he is playing out of position. I am hoping they get a real 1-tech anchor and use him more as a 3-tech.

I think the challenge is that you want your best rush DT playing 3-tech, and that's Williams. So they have to choose between keeping the #16 pick on the bench except to spell Williams, pulling our best DL off the field more of the time, or playing Murphy at 1-tech. Of those three bad options, I think they chose the best one. I'd be curious if they go to more of a 3-man line with Murphy and Williams flanking a NT and then moving the EDGE players around more to prevent Williams and Murphy from getting double-teamed by the OT all the time. My memory of the Ravens was that they did lots of creative stuff in the box with EDGEs rushing from a two-point stance, but I don't remember if they had the three down linemen playing like that.

[NorthHawk]

He’s no longer a wide eyed rookie trying to figure out how the NFL works and what’s required to play at this level so I expect he’ll be better this year and if becoming a 3 tech is in his future it will be an easier transition.