Black Monday 2025

[NorthHawk]

RD usually starts this thread, but I thought some changes were interesting.

Here are the HC changes so far:
We know that Saleh of the Jets, Allen of the Saints and Eberflus of the Bears were let go but today there are some more:

Jerod Mayo of the Pats
Doug Peterson of the Jaguars

[Stream Hawk]

So does Pederson need a job? His vision may align better with Macdonald's vision than Grubb.

[4XPIPS]

A little shocked that Daboll was kept.

[NorthHawk]

A little shocked that Daboll was kept.

Me, too. If they get off to a slow start and struggle like this past year he might be the first HC to be fired in 2025.

[River Dog]

RD usually starts this thread, but I thought some changes were interesting.

Here are the HC changes so far:
We know that Saleh of the Jets, Allen of the Saints and Eberflus of the Bears were let go but today there are some more:

Jerod Mayo of the Pats
Doug Peterson of the Jaguars

Yeah, I went to the Seahawks-Rams game and got home late last night (late for me, anyway). Thanks for covering for me.

I saw where the Jets are going to interview Rex Ryan for their HC opening. It would be just like them to hire him. They might as well hire Urban Meyer. I've also seen that Pete Carroll might be interested in the Bears job.

[NorthHawk]

There might be even more HC changes with Jerry Jones trying to create some drama with his decision. It might be another bad decision for them if he waited too long, but who in this forum really cares about Dallas?
For the Bears sake, I hope they don't sign Carroll because they need a younger Offensive HC who can develop Williams properly, not a HC who stifles their creativity. I could see him end up in Jacksonville where they really need a culture change and have a lot of young players to work with.

[River Dog]

There might be even more HC changes with Jerry Jones trying to create some drama with his decision. It might be another bad decision for them if he waited too long, but who in this forum really cares about Dallas?

Me. I care about Dallas. I hope they go 0-17 every season for the rest of my life.

For the Bears sake, I hope they don't sign Carroll because they need a younger Offensive HC who can develop Williams properly, not a HC who stifles their creativity. I could see him end up in Jacksonville where they really need a culture change and have a lot of young players to work with.

There's a lot of talk about the Bears hiring Ben Johnson, perhaps the hottest HC prospect on the market. He'll have his choice of several jobs, but the Bears are probably the best suited to take the next step.

[4XPIPS]

Well it's a Jerry thing to do, as he pivots when he wants to and looks like McCarthy is going to be out after all

[River Dog]

Yeah, Jones fired his head coach, but the guy he should really can is that general manager of his.

[Aseahawkfan]

Yeah, Jones fired his head coach, but the guy he should really can is that general manager of his.

That GM built his Super Bowl teams, not Jimmy Johnson. He has the third ring to prove it. That GM's ego will never admit Jimmy Johnson built and developed that team even though 30 years later he still hasn't sniffed a Super Bowl again. He'd rather lose or fail year after year then ever admit he's not as good at picking the groceries as Jimmy Johnson was.

[River Dog]

Yeah, Jones fired his head coach, but the guy he should really can is that general manager of his.

That GM built his Super Bowl teams, not Jimmy Johnson. He has the third ring to prove it. That GM's ego will never admit Jimmy Johnson built and developed that team even though 30 years later he still hasn't sniffed a Super Bowl again. He'd rather lose or fail year after year then ever admit he's not as good at picking the groceries as Jimmy Johnson was.

Jones pulled off one of the biggest fleece jobs of a trade in the history of professional sports when he traded Herschel Walker to the Vikings. That one trade, along with some sleepers like Troy Aikman and Michael Irvin, set the stage for his 3 rings. It went to his head. Since then, he hasn't done squat. He ranks up there with George Steinbrenner as one of the most despised owners in professional sports.

Jones is 82 years old and has shown no signs of stepping aside. He's like Al Davis and will die before he hands the reigns over to someone else.

[Aseahawkfan]

Jones pulled off one of the biggest fleece jobs of a trade in the history of professional sports when he traded Herschel Walker to the Vikings. That one trade, along with some sleepers like Troy Aikman and Michael Irvin, set the stage for his 3 rings. It went to his head. Since then, he hasn't done squat. He ranks up there with George Steinbrenner as one of the most despised owners in professional sports.

Jones is 82 years old and has shown no signs of stepping aside. He's like Al Davis and will die before he hands the reigns over to someone else.

I contend Jimmy Johnson arranged that trade and then he created his trade value chart. Jerry Jones has been basking in the glory of Jimmy Johnson for 30 plus years thinking he did it when everyone in the NFL knows Jimmy Johnson pulled off that fleece job and picked and developed the talent as well. Jones can't stand the fact that everyone that looks at the Cowboys remembers either Tom Landry and the 70s Cowboys or Jimmy Johnson and the 90s Cowboys. No one thinks Jerry Jones did much but bask in the glory of owning one of the most storied franchises with two eras built by one of the most legendary coaches in NFL history and one of the most successful coaches in the 90s.

I'll always consider the 90s Cowboys the team Jimmy built, not Jerry. I'll never forgive Jerry for firing Jimmy Johnson without allowing him his shot at a threepeat with that amazing team Jimmy Johnson built. That 90s Cowboys team was stacked on both sides of the ball back to front. One of the greatest teams ever drafted and developed. Jimmy Johnson did it, not Jerry.

That's why Jerry has done nothing since Jimmy left. Not a damn thing of note. Jerry Jones didn't know football worth a damn. Jimmy built him a juggernaut, then he backstabbed Jimmy Johnson. Then he wins with Jimmy's team with that clown Switzer as head coach, Jerry's stooge. Maybe Switzer doesn't deserve that label, but it's what he was.

Nothing pissed me off more than to see Jimmy Johnson fired at the height of the Cowboy's greatness.

Just like when dumbass Jerry Krause fired Phil Jackson at the height of the Bull's greatness making Michael Jordan decide to retire rather than go for a four peat and seventh championship I think they would have won.

I hate owners and GMs who can't see greatness when they have it because their pathetic egos want more credit. I'll always consider the 90s Cowboys Jimmy's team. Just like Phil Jackson was the Bulls best head coach and he and Michael built Chicago into what it was and it's been nothing since they left. Same as the Cowboys.

GMs and owners too stupid to know when they have legendary greatness and not letting a head coach finish what they started piss me off.

I know you hate the Cowboys, but I loved watching that 90s Cowboys team. That was a fun team to watch. Seeing that Cowboys vs. Frisco rivalry was must see football. Same as the Lakers with Magic and the Celtics with Larry in the 80s.

[River Dog]

Jones pulled off one of the biggest fleece jobs of a trade in the history of professional sports when he traded Herschel Walker to the Vikings. That one trade, along with some sleepers like Troy Aikman and Michael Irvin, set the stage for his 3 rings. It went to his head. Since then, he hasn't done squat. He ranks up there with George Steinbrenner as one of the most despised owners in professional sports.

Jones is 82 years old and has shown no signs of stepping aside. He's like Al Davis and will die before he hands the reigns over to someone else.

I contend Jimmy Johnson arranged that trade and then he created his trade value chart. Jerry Jones has been basking in the glory of Jimmy Johnson for 30 plus years thinking he did it when everyone in the NFL knows Jimmy Johnson pulled off that fleece job and picked and developed the talent as well. Jones can't stand the fact that everyone that looks at the Cowboys remembers either Tom Landry and the 70s Cowboys or Jimmy Johnson and the 90s Cowboys. No one thinks Jerry Jones did much but bask in the glory of owning one of the most storied franchises with two eras built by one of the most legendary coaches in NFL history and one of the most successful coaches in the 90s.

I'll always consider the 90s Cowboys the team Jimmy built, not Jerry. I'll never forgive Jerry for firing Jimmy Johnson without allowing him his shot at a threepeat with that amazing team Jimmy Johnson built. That 90s Cowboys team was stacked on both sides of the ball back to front. One of the greatest teams ever drafted and developed. Jimmy Johnson did it, not Jerry.

That's why Jerry has done nothing since Jimmy left. Not a damn thing of note. Jerry Jones didn't know football worth a damn. Jimmy built him a juggernaut, then he backstabbed Jimmy Johnson. Then he wins with Jimmy's team with that clown Switzer as head coach, Jerry's stooge. Maybe Switzer doesn't deserve that label, but it's what he was.

Nothing pissed me off more than to see Jimmy Johnson fired at the height of the Cowboy's greatness.

Just like when dumbass Jerry Krause fired Phil Jackson at the height of the Bull's greatness making Michael Jordan decide to retire rather than go for a four peat and seventh championship I think they would have won.

I hate owners and GMs who can't see greatness when they have it because their pathetic egos want more credit. I'll always consider the 90s Cowboys Jimmy's team. Just like Phil Jackson was the Bulls best head coach and he and Michael built Chicago into what it was and it's been nothing since they left. Same as the Cowboys.

GMs and owners too stupid to know when they have legendary greatness and not letting a head coach finish what they started piss me off.

I know you hate the Cowboys, but I loved watching that 90s Cowboys team. That was a fun team to watch. Seeing that Cowboys vs. Frisco rivalry was must see football. Same as the Lakers with Magic and the Celtics with Larry in the 80s.

From what I've read, trading Walker was definitely Johnson's idea, but as much as it may pain us to admit it, we have to give some credit to Jerry Jones. First off, Jones was Johnson's boss and could have easily killed the idea, but he trusted his coach and took the risk. Secondly, from the accounts I've read, Jones did a magnificent job of running up the asking price by making the Vikings think that there were more teams interested in trading for Walker than there really was and created a bidding war. It was a great game of poker on his part. And lastly, Jones is the one who decided when to pull the trigger.

But I do agree with you that the primary architect of the Cowboys dynasty of the early 90's was Jimmy Johnson. And yes, I hate the Cowboys, and it's almost exclusively tied to the way Jones fired Tom Landry when he first bought the team, not even bothering to tell him in person. I wasn't a huge Tom Landry fan, but I've never seen or heard of such an incredibly insensitive act. The only head coach the team had ever known, he'd been with them for nearly 30 years, won two Lombardis with them, yet Jones treats him like yesterday's newspaper.

[Aseahawkfan]

From what I've read, trading Walker was definitely Johnson's idea, but as much as it may pain us to admit it, we have to give some credit to Jerry Jones. First off, Jones was Johnson's boss and could have easily killed the idea, but he trusted his coach and took the risk. Secondly, from the accounts I've read, Jones did a magnificent job of running up the asking price by making the Vikings think that there were more teams interested in trading for Walker than there really was and created a bidding war. It was a great game of poker on his part. And lastly, Jones is the one who decided when to pull the trigger.

But I do agree with you that the primary architect of the Cowboys dynasty of the early 90's was Jimmy Johnson. And yes, I hate the Cowboys, and it's almost exclusively tied to the way Jones fired Tom Landry when he first bought the team, not even bothering to tell him in person. I wasn't a huge Tom Landry fan, but I've never seen or heard of such an incredibly insensitive act. The only head coach the team had ever known, he'd been with them for nearly 30 years, won two Lombardis with them, yet Jones treats him like yesterday's newspaper.

Jerry Jones gets whatever credit you get for backing a great idea from your new head coach.

I will never consider Jerry Jones a great GM or owner. He's living off Jimmy's glory, everyone that watched the Cowboys during that period knows it, including Jerry who has been trying to prove Jimmy wrong for thirty years.

[River Dog]

From what I've read, trading Walker was definitely Johnson's idea, but as much as it may pain us to admit it, we have to give some credit to Jerry Jones. First off, Jones was Johnson's boss and could have easily killed the idea, but he trusted his coach and took the risk. Secondly, from the accounts I've read, Jones did a magnificent job of running up the asking price by making the Vikings think that there were more teams interested in trading for Walker than there really was and created a bidding war. It was a great game of poker on his part. And lastly, Jones is the one who decided when to pull the trigger.

But I do agree with you that the primary architect of the Cowboys dynasty of the early 90's was Jimmy Johnson. And yes, I hate the Cowboys, and it's almost exclusively tied to the way Jones fired Tom Landry when he first bought the team, not even bothering to tell him in person. I wasn't a huge Tom Landry fan, but I've never seen or heard of such an incredibly insensitive act. The only head coach the team had ever known, he'd been with them for nearly 30 years, won two Lombardis with them, yet Jones treats him like yesterday's newspaper.

Jerry Jones gets whatever credit you get for backing a great idea from your new head coach.

I will never consider Jerry Jones a great GM or owner. He's living off Jimmy's glory, everyone that watched the Cowboys during that period knows it, including Jerry who has been trying to prove Jimmy wrong for thirty years.

I think we're closer to agreeing than we are disagreeing. IMO Jerry Jones is one of the worst GM's/owners in the game. All I'm saying is that you have to give him some credit for those early years.

[Aseahawkfan]

I think we're closer to agreeing than we are disagreeing. IMO Jerry Jones is one of the worst GM's/owners in the game. All I'm saying is that you have to give him some credit for those early years.

This is one of those situations where I'm going to be the hardhead. Jerry Jones treated two great coaches like trash. Tom Landry helped build football as we know it and he fired the guy like he was trash. Then he brings in Jimmy and fires him after Jimmy built him a super team and then insulted him with the comment about his third ring. I don't like the guy and probably never will.

[4XPIPS]

Looks like the Jets found their next victim. Aaron Glenn, going to be the new HC of the Jets. I know it's a dream to becoming a HC, but anyone taking the Jets job is going to be short lived. When you have the owner of the Jets bouncing trade suggestions off his 19 year old son, and rejecting trade offers because their Madden rating isn't high enough, best of luck Aaron.

[River Dog]

Looks like the Jets found their next victim. Aaron Glenn, going to be the new HC of the Jets. I know it's a dream to becoming a HC, but anyone taking the Jets job is going to be short lived. When you have the owner of the Jets bouncing trade suggestions off his 19 year old son, and rejecting trade offers because their Madden rating isn't high enough, best of luck Aaron.

Poor Lions are having their coaching staff decimated. They've lost both their coordinators, and we might pick off their OL coach.

Now, the drama with the Jets is whether or not Nathanial Hackett and/or Aaron Rodgers stays.

[4XPIPS]

Now, the drama with the Jets is whether or not Nathanial Hackett and/or Aaron Rodgers stays.

It's been drama ever since they signed Aaron Rodgers. I say keep him and keep Hackett, watch the sh1t show continue to evolve. Aaron get's fired up on big plays, similar to what Saleh was like, and I can see Aaron pushing Aaron off like he did to Saleh. It would make great comedy if they keep Aaron and Hackett, who is an OC who isn't calling plays.

[River Dog]

Now, the drama with the Jets is whether or not Nathanial Hackett and/or Aaron Rodgers stays.

It's been drama ever since they signed Aaron Rodgers. I say keep him and keep Hackett, watch the sh1t show continue to evolve. Aaron get's fired up on big plays, similar to what Saleh was like, and I can see Aaron pushing Aaron off like he did to Saleh. It would make great comedy if they keep Aaron and Hackett, who is an OC who isn't calling plays.

Yeah, between the Jets and Cowboys, there's two teams that I love watching flounder, so I'd love to see that tandem make an encore. I can't stand Aaron Rodgers.

[Aseahawkfan]

Yeah, between the Jets and Cowboys, there's two teams that I love watching flounder, so I'd love to see that tandem make an encore. I can't stand Aaron Rodgers.

Rodgers is just annoying. Another one of those great QBs I'd love to have with an annoying personality. Similar to Brady, though Brady seems cooler now that he's retired and having fun.

[River Dog]

Yeah, between the Jets and Cowboys, there's two teams that I love watching flounder, so I'd love to see that tandem make an encore. I can't stand Aaron Rodgers.

Rodgers is just annoying. Another one of those great QBs I'd love to have with an annoying personality. Similar to Brady, though Brady seems cooler now that he's retired and having fun.

I compare my personal experiences during my working life with what others in sports, politics, etc experience. Had I done the things that Brady and Rodgers did and got away with it would have caused me to be fired.

I hear that Pete Carroll may be up for the DC job with the Niners. Is he that desperate to get back into coaching that he'd take a demotion to a DC? And if he took a job with our most hated rival, how would our fan base react? Would he get the same rude treatment that Russell has received?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/ ... ngNewsSerp

[NorthHawk]

It would be interesting to see Carroll as DC with the 49ers but I’m not sure if he could be an Assistant Coach after decades as a HC in both College and the NFL. I heard a comment that Saleh might return to SF if he doesn’t get a HC position.

[Aseahawkfan]

I compare my personal experiences during my working life with what others in sports, politics, etc experience. Had I done the things that Brady and Rodgers did and got away with it would have caused me to be fired.

I hear that Pete Carroll may be up for the DC job with the Niners. Is he that desperate to get back into coaching that he'd take a demotion to a DC? And if he took a job with our most hated rival, how would our fan base react? Would he get the same rude treatment that Russell has received?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/ ... ngNewsSerp

I work in tech. If you can perform your job as well as Rodgers and Brady perform their job in tech, they wouldn't get fired unless they did something so extreme that the company had external pressure to fire. Rodgers and Brady would be the equivalent of top level programmers or engineers. They are not easy to find at all. You cannot fire them and replace them easily without a big loss of capital or a competitor picking them up and gaining a huge advantage.

Could be the industry you work in can easily replace top performers where you can get rid of them easy. I don't know the structure of your business or how valuable a top level performer like those two would be, but in tech you don't get rid of your top performers for much short of murder or jail time.

That explains why we see things differently. Tech or investing is 100 percent performance based at the highest levels much like athletics. Top level performers are extremely hard to replace and would require enormous loss of capital or competitive advantage for a minor moral statement. It's not something companies performing in cutting edge industry can afford to do.

[Aseahawkfan]

It would be interesting to see Carroll as DC with the 49ers but I’m not sure if he could be an Assistant Coach after decades as a HC in both College and the NFL. I heard a comment that Saleh might return to SF if he doesn’t get a HC position.

49ers probably the only team Carroll would tolerate being just a DC again as close to home and nostalgic for him.

[NorthHawk]

Do you think he could put a cap on his seeming control needs?

[Aseahawkfan]

Do you think he could put a cap on his seeming control needs?

No. Carroll would be positioning to take over. He's Pete Carrol. He's been to the mountaintop in college and the pros. Man don't know how to relax and enjoy his retirement. He's still itching for more.

I understand it though. I can't imagine retiring either. Stop working? That is a foreign idea.