Seahawk Changes?

[NorthHawk]

On Pro Football Rumors it was suggested that Grubb might end up being forced out. I've read in forums that he might want to leave and rejoin Kalen DeBoer at Alabama but so far that's just talk and conjecture.
Some times with a new staff, things don't work out and there are personality conflicts or maybe what was expected from the HC isn't what was delivered so they part ways.

Here's a link to the article:
https://www.profootballrumors.com/2025/ ... on-hotseat

[Stream Hawk]

Heard on 710 just now that Grubb’s been fired. Wonder where/who we will go to next.

[c_hawkbob]

Yep, Grubb is out. Works for me. https://www.fieldgulls.com/2025/1/6/243 ... oordinator

[Aseahawkfan]

We need an OC that can develop a new QB. It's going to be important for true contention again. Hopefully MacDonald has someone in mind.

I have zero idea if MacDonald has any idea how to develop a QB or manage an offense. Pete had a clear idea of bringing people in to compete until someone won the job permanently. I imagine MacDonald has some idea like this, but when that will happen I don't know. Geno makes too much right now to do much competition.

I'm expecting Tyler Lockett to be cut as well unless he takes a huge pay cut. Maybe an extension with a cut for D.K. or maybe a sign and trade.

[TriCitySam]

Some positives and negatives with Grubb, but in several post game pressers MacDonald made comments that reflected he wasn't happy with some of the play calls (neither was Lockett).

[Spohawk5092]

Some positives and negatives with Grubb, but in several post game pressers MacDonald made comments that reflected he wasn't happy with some of the play calls (neither was Lockett).

Grubb, like the team, and Smith and others had some good games, and some not very good games......not surprised he's gone. Personally I am open for a new QB as well. Geno was good in some games, and many he was not. #2 in the NFL this season for interceptions. Not good. But whom is available? I don't know..

[TriCitySam]

Prior to playing the resting Rams, they were 23rd in PPD, lowest points since 2017 21st in EPA, lowest since 2011; 20th in red zone efficiency; 24th in 3rd down conversion and 30th in goal line efficiency. Seahawks moved to 14th in total defense, and with the offensive struggles didn't get the record bump they hoped for.

[NorthHawk]

We haven’t been good at short yardage for a number of years and I think that’s a result of an underperforming OL.
Having said that, this Offense ran too much Shotgun so play action was of limited value. As well, when they did run play action it was often off of plays they hadn’t used so Defenses weren’t fooled.
With an inexperienced OC, there were bound to be some growing pains and the Offense showed a lot of different pass formations and passing philosophy from Carroll, so hopefully we can sign an experienced OC like maybe Daboll, former HC of the Giants who can take what worked and fix what didn’t.

[jshawaii22]

Finding a good OC is not easy as you can't raid another team to move someone sideways. The candidate must be unemployed in the NFL as an OC/DC.
About 1/2 way through the year, Raiders hired as a 'consultant' (to his son, the OC) Norv Turner. WE could do a lot worse, especially with our young defensive HC. Vegas went back and forth with 3 crappy QB's and injuries and at the end were playing pretty good.

If Pete gets the Chicago HC job, and JS wants to go with him, I would show him the door. I don't understand to this day why he wasn't fired with Pete.
He was good, real good for 3 years, then average, at best, for about 8.

[4XPIPS]

I'm expecting Tyler Lockett to be cut as well unless he takes a huge pay cut. Maybe an extension with a cut for D.K. or maybe a sign and trade.

There are no sign and trades in the NFL.

[NorthHawk]

But they could restructure and trade however any signing bonus would be paid by Seattle and it goes directly onto the Cap. So if they keep Lockett, it will most likely be an extension with protections for the club like void years and a much lower Cap hit.

[TriCitySam]

Pretty interesting article on SI.com regarding the issues with Grubb and the decision to move on....

[Agent 86]

Pretty interesting article on SI.com regarding the issues with Grubb and the decision to move on....

https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/seahawks-news/disillusioned-and-incompatible-inside-seahawks-decision-to-fire-ryan-grubb

[Aseahawkfan]

The article implies Grubb wasn't being adaptable against NFL teams. MacDonald wasn't happy with it. They may focus on a proven NFL OC if one is available.

[Oly]

Really good article, and confirms what many of us have been saying about Grubb's philosophy not matching Macdonald's. I'm excited both by the possibility of a more balanced offense but also by what this this shows us about Macdonald. Just like with his LBs, if he sees that he got something wrong, he makes quick, decisive decisions to fix it. He's not afraid to admit mistakes and move on.

[River Dog]

Really good article, and confirms what many of us have been saying about Grubb's philosophy not matching Macdonald's. I'm excited both by the possibility of a more balanced offense but also by what this this shows us about Macdonald. Just like with his LBs, if he sees that he got something wrong, he makes quick, decisive decisions to fix it. He's not afraid to admit mistakes and move on.

That's certainly one take, the positive one. Another angle is that Macdonald is floundering, grasping for straws, is impatient, in full panic mode, doesn't have a clear idea of where he wants to go.

I'm not saying that either version is correct, just that there's two sides to the coin.

[NorthHawk]

The article discusses the lack of a run game being one of the issues.
The lack of talent up front and continued inability to grind out short yardage 1st downs or TDs would probably impact any play caller and the ratio of runs to passes.
I have to wonder if we had a more competent OL, would that ratio be much different? There are probably some scheme changes that could help, but with limited talent comes a limited ability to vary the schemes.

[River Dog]

The article discusses the lack of a run game being one of the issues.
The lack of talent up front and continued inability to grind out short yardage 1st downs or TDs would probably impact any play caller and the ratio of runs to passes.
I have to wonder if we had a more competent OL, would that ratio be much different? There are probably some scheme changes that could help, but with limited talent comes a limited ability to vary the schemes.

That was the point I was trying to get at. It's hard to blame an OC for not running the ball more when you can't run. What's he supposed to do, just keep pounding his head on the wall, or do you respond by putting the ball in the air? Critics will say that Grubb gave up on the run too early, but his defenders will say that he had no choice.

One of the areas where we were very poor at was in time of possession. We were ranked 28th, not a good spot you want your team to be in when you're a defensive minded HC. A lot of that is due to the lack of a consistent running game. I don't think there is any question that Mac wants someone that will run the ball more often.

[Oly]

That was the point I was trying to get at. It's hard to blame an OC for not running the ball more when you can't run. What's he supposed to do, just keep pounding his head on the wall, or do you respond by putting the ball in the air? Critics will say that Grubb gave up on the run too early, but his defenders will say that he had no choice.

One of the areas where we were very poor at was in time of possession. We were ranked 28th, not a good spot you want your team to be in when you're a defensive minded HC. A lot of that is due to the lack of a consistent running game. I don't think there is any question that Mac wants someone that will run the ball more often.

Poor OL play is absolutely a big factor. But there were times that Grubb had creative run blocking schemes with pulling guards and other stuff that worked, and this showed me that he could have had at least enough success to keep the defense guessing and open up the play action game. Like the article noted, calling all passes when Howell came in was just...bizarre. Did he really think Howell was so much more likely to deliver the game than anything he could get from the run game? To me, that showed his tendency to get tunnel vision and get stuck on Geno-passing-from-the-shotgun as the only way to move the ball.

[NorthHawk]

Those schemes work until the Defense understands what the Offense is doing and counters it, but I get your point that they should have used it more until it was stopped, and maybe even run play action off of the successful run plays.

[mykc14]

Without a doubt our OL issues were part of the problem, but there were a few times that Grubb HAD to run the ball and he didn't. The end of the game vs Minnesota was a really good example of a time when he needed to run. We really needed to get ourselves into field goal range in that situation and he didn't get it done. Another really good example is the Giants game. Only 12 runs in that game is inexcusable. Another issue that the article didn't discuss was the red zone issues, especially the interceptions. Even though those INT's ultimately fall on Geno Grubb has to take some of the blame. At the end of the day the biggest issue is that Grubb would not change, even after it was clear that Macdonald had talked to him about it. Macdonald is the head coach and if the head coach wants you to the run the ball more you figure out a way to run the ball more or you are going to be out of a job. Personally I liked the potential that Grubb had but I was very frustrated a few times when he would not run the ball and we needed to. I think another thing that is important to look at is that you have to be able to run the ball to be good in the NFL right now. So many teams are playing Cover 2 and taking that extra defender out of the box, preventing the big pass play that you've got to run to open up the pass a little bit. If you look at run % in the NFL it's pretty clear that you need to be able to run the football to win. 7 of the top 10 teams running the football made it to the playoffs while only 2 of the bottom 10 made it. I know it's not a direct correlation as teams who are worse are going to be losing more and are going to have to throw more. At the same time, if you're a bad team you should be running more early on to shorten the game as much as possible, so it does even out a little bit.

[TriCitySam]

Wouldn't agree with Mac "floundering". The run/pass ratio and # of attempts (17th in YPC but 29th in attempts) are a real concern; and moving from 30th to 14th in total D is an accomplishment.

[Aseahawkfan]

From what I read in the article, the Giants game really pissed MacDonald off given how low rated the giants were against the run and high rated against the pass. He expected Grubb to focus heavily on the run against a team weak against the run, but Grubb decided to pass a lot which played into the Giants strength as a pass defending team. Grubb should have known to pound the run. It sounds like this happened a few more times to MacDonald's chagrin. Grubb is a very pass happy OC. Sounds like MacDonald wants offensive plans built to exploit the weaknesses of the teams we face.

[Stream Hawk]

That was the point I was trying to get at. It's hard to blame an OC for not running the ball more when you can't run. What's he supposed to do, just keep pounding his head on the wall, or do you respond by putting the ball in the air? Critics will say that Grubb gave up on the run too early, but his defenders will say that he had no choice.

One of the areas where we were very poor at was in time of possession. We were ranked 28th, not a good spot you want your team to be in when you're a defensive minded HC. A lot of that is due to the lack of a consistent running game. I don't think there is any question that Mac wants someone that will run the ball more often.

I saw that article and loved it for its clarity of the situation. The in-game examples had me reliving a lot of frustrations. In fact, we were able to run in a lot of those games. The Giants, Packers, Vikings, and Bears game for instance had several examples of stubbornness.

In the Packers game, down by 10 points with a very shaky QB, he never ran again after Charb ripped off a big time running TD. It sounds like Mike was just as frustrated with Grubb as the rest of us. The next week against Vikings, with a chance to take the lead on the line, he refused to run to kill the clock and put us in position to win. Instead, he left Geno out there like a sitting duck and we all know what happened next. In the Bears game, we were running the hell out of the ball on the opening drive and then went spread O on 3rd and 3 in the RZ to cause yet another near Int.

I hope Mike has a good grasp on who he wants to bring in. I like the candidates I've seen from GB, Det, or McFleur from LAR. Even Schotty sounds reasonable. Let's go with a running-centric OC with the new-age creative WCO pedigree. Yes, I know we have to fix the line first.

[NorthHawk]

Most Offenses are run first in that it sets up the pass. If you look at the teams that pass successfully they usually have an effective run game. It may not be the dominant part of the Offense, but when they run they get some good yardage and this keeps the Defense from just rushing the passer. The WCO uses short passes to the RBs as an extension of the run game and it keeps the Defense honest because they have to respect the run - and that opens up the pass game.
What I would like to see from the new OC is a continued modern pass game and an improved run game which ultimately means upgraded performance from the OL.

[4XPIPS]

Most Offenses are run first in that it sets up the pass. If you look at the teams that pass successfully they usually have an effective run game. It may not be the dominant part of the Offense, but when they run they get some good yardage and this keeps the Defense from just rushing the passer. The WCO uses short passes to the RBs as an extension of the run game and it keeps the Defense honest because they have to respect the run - and that opens up the pass game.
What I would like to see from the new OC is a continued modern pass game and an improved run game which ultimately means upgraded performance from the OL.

Well if I had an offseason "Wish List" I would go with this, and most of this has been tossed around through out the season. First off congrats to John and Mike for overachieving this year. It's hard to win in the league, and to do it in your first season. So I am mildly disappointed we missed the post season, but to be honest we wouldn't have gone too far. However, given the circumstances it's noteworthy to be happy to see the team transition to a new coaching staff and see some positives.

I think John got spoiled with prime Russ for many seasons not having to invest in a good OL. A player with Russell' ability to think quick and make plays with a collapsing pocket do not come around often. I would like to see John step his game up and invest more resources and time into getting the OL better. I am not worried about the trajectory of our Defense as I think Mike Macdonald has that pointed in the right direction. As we saw improvement from last year to this year. As the season ended, record aside we were the top in our division with total points, and best in our division for points allowed. I think we are 2 seasons away from being a top 5 defense.

Must improve the run game, and I know Grubb took the hit on that, and at times I felt myself yelling at the TV "run the ball!" Well Grubb is gone, so the focus is to tailor the offense to suit the type of team that Mike wants. Hopefully, after a year holding the captain's seat of the ship Mike has a better grip on coaching the entire team better.

As for Geno, I am not sure giving him an extension as of yet. The Hawks will have to look at the entire landscape before throwing him an extension, from the Draft to FA options. If the Seahawks had a top 5 rushing attack, and a top 5 defense..hmm then maybe we could make a run to the SB with Geno, but unfortunately he isn't able to elevate his game further to over compensate. I like the idea of Sam Darnold, as he has had some experience and he is only 27 at this point.

Anyhow, it doesn't matter Geno or whomever, without a stud OL this offense isn't going anywhere. So priorities should be to get this OL better, and continue to develop this young defense. As for QB, I would like to see the organization take a step towards finding the QBOTF, whether that be a trade or draft this offseason.

[NorthHawk]

I think John got spoiled with prime Russ for many seasons not having to invest in a good OL. A player with Russell' ability to think quick and make plays with a collapsing pocket do not come around often. I would like to see John step his game up and invest more resources and time into getting the OL better. I am not worried about the trajectory of our Defense as I think Mike Macdonald has that pointed in the right direction. As we saw improvement from last year to this year. As the season ended, record aside we were the top in our division with total points, and best in our division for points allowed. I think we are 2 seasons away from being a top 5 defense.

Wilsons ability to escape might have played a role in the OL not being developed, but I think it's been shown to be more than that and is a core philosophy of Schneider. After all, he traded away a Pro Bowl Center then never replaced him in 10 years and continually revolved castoffs or former good players who had little left in the tank but came cheap, with the results being a piss poor OL performance for about a decade now. Have these past couple of years opened his eyes or made him rethink that point of view or will this continue in this draft? We'll see in the next few months but I have my doubts and expect him to wait until the 4th round or later in the draft and the final week of FA before signing players as usual with the expected OL performance next year being pretty much the same.

As for Geno, I am not sure giving him an extension as of yet. The Hawks will have to look at the entire landscape before throwing him an extension, from the Draft to FA options. If the Seahawks had a top 5 rushing attack, and a top 5 defense..hmm then maybe we could make a run to the SB with Geno, but unfortunately he isn't able to elevate his game further to over compensate. I like the idea of Sam Darnold, as he has had some experience and he is only 27 at this point.

After this year, I think Darnold might be more expensive than Geno and wonder if he's a product of a very good HC/OC/QB coach along with a good OL and WR corps. He wouldn't have 2 of those here and the OC/QB coach is currently in limbo.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Seahawks just said to Geno 'Here's our offer, we need to bring the Cap hit down and if you can find a better deal elsewhere, then good luck'. The challenge that comes with that is finding the next Geno or other QB like Darnold who would want to play at a much less expensive Cap hit.

[c_hawkbob]

I wouldn't see Darnold as a major upgrade over Geno anyway. I like that MacD wants to stand pat with Geno (at least for now, obviously remain active looking for our QBOTF) and concentrating our effort right now elsewhere. And I really like that we've got the Lions O-line coach Hank Fraley as a primary candidate for OC! Shows that perhaps he's seeing O-line as more of a priority than recent staffs have.












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[Aseahawkfan]

The Schneider philosophy for O-line seems to be spend high picks on tackles, but don't spend much on guards or centers. He seems to value the O-line edges, but thinks nothing of the interior O-line. The interior O-line is an area John doesn't want to spend a pick higher than the 2rd round on and often waits until the third or lower round to spend a pick on a guard or center.

[4XPIPS]

I wouldn't see Darnold as a major upgrade over Geno anyway. I like that MacD wants to stand pat with Geno (at least for now, obviously remain active looking for our QBOTF) and concentrating our effort right now elsewhere. And I really like that we've got the Lions O-line coach Hank Fraley as a primary candidate for OC! Shows that perhaps he's seeing O-line as more of a priority than recent staffs have.

Well it will be contingent on money. Darnold may have played himself into a fat payday and like Northhawk stated he won't be cheap. I can see a team over paying him because of what he has done with the Vikings this year, and he has played quite well with the Vikings. Just given his age it would be a bridge from Geno to him. I do like Geno, but I can't see him taking anything around $30 per year anymore as the QB market has changed. We can all agree that the highest paid players at their respective positions doesn't always mean they are the best in at their position. With young QBs striking up $50 to now $60 mil per year, Geno at $30 per year is a bargain for a competent starter. However I can see him wanting to angle his worth higher, but I just not sure if it's worth investing into him this late in career. How much of the redzone issues this year were on Geno, or Grubb? I know Grubb isn't taking the snaps out there, but he called in the plays for Geno.

As for Sam Howell, I am not sure he is the future starter either. Given his short time on the field he looked lost. At least when Lock was thrown in, he tried pushing the ball downfield

Hank Fraley, I like that idea. He was an undrafted rookie and played himself into a solid career as a center. A player like that who started at the very bottom and had to work for everything is someone I would think young offensive lineman can bond with and learn from.

[4XPIPS]

The Schneider philosophy for O-line seems to be spend high picks on tackles, but don't spend much on guards or centers. He seems to value the O-line edges, but thinks nothing of the interior O-line. The interior O-line is an area John doesn't want to spend a pick higher than the 2rd round on and often waits until the third or lower round to spend a pick on a guard or center.

Maybe it's time for him to change his beliefs and thought process moving forward. Clearly what he has attributed to constructing an OL this far has been an F. We have spent draft pics on OL, but it doesn't seem to be one of those, Trent Williams or Jason Peters type of player who had a nice long run as an anchor to a team. So where is the fall out, is the scouting, is it that scouts prioritize other positions more? I think it's time John changes what he does and go a different route to prioritizing the big uglies.

[NorthHawk]

He owns a Super Bowl ring doing it his way so I’m not hopeful that JS will change his outlook. But like you, I think this team sorely needs a change in how the OL is put together.

[4XPIPS]

He owns a Super Bowl ring doing it his way so I’m not hopeful that JS will change his outlook. But like you, I think this team sorely needs a change in how the OL is put together.

Well if he isn't willing to change, and continue to revert to what he feels makes the team a Superbowl team and continues to undervalue the need for a quality offensive line, then we certainly are in for a many more as Aseahawkfan would say "middling" seasons from 8 to 11 wins per year.

[River Dog]

I wouldn't see Darnold as a major upgrade over Geno anyway. I like that MacD wants to stand pat with Geno (at least for now, obviously remain active looking for our QBOTF) and concentrating our effort right now elsewhere. And I really like that we've got the Lions O-line coach Hank Fraley as a primary candidate for OC! Shows that perhaps he's seeing O-line as more of a priority than recent staffs have.

I tend to agree about Darnold not being an upgrade over Geno but wouldn't completely close the door on him. He has one advantage over Geno, age. Geno is 34, Darnold 27.

There's going to be a lot of quarterback shake-ups this offseason, with Darnold being one of them. The Viks have a decision to make between him and JJ McCarthy, who ironically was at Michigan the same time Macdonald was the DC there. Aaron Rodgers is almost certainly out with the Jets. The Steelers have a decision to make between Russell and Fields. There are rumors that the Jags might want to trade Trevor Lawrence. The Titans have appeared to have moved on from Will Levis.

Despite all the smoke Macdonald has blown up Geno's rear lately, there's a good possibility that we might see something happen at the quarterback position during the offseason. I doubt that we'll give him a lucrative extension, or at least I hope that we don't. Let him play out his final season under contract then go from there. If he holds out, screw him.

But I'm with you about Mac seemingly recognizing the importance of the OL by our considering Fraley as OC. I don't know if he's the right man for the job or not, but at least it's an indication that Mac prioritizes the OL more than Pete did.












9[/quote]

[Aseahawkfan]

I tend to agree about Darnold not being an upgrade over Geno but wouldn't completely close the door on him. He has one advantage over Geno, age. Geno is 34, Darnold 27.

There's going to be a lot of quarterback shake-ups this offseason, with Darnold being one of them. The Viks have a decision to make between him and JJ McCarthy, who ironically was at Michigan the same time Macdonald was the DC there. Aaron Rodgers is almost certainly out with the Jets. The Steelers have a decision to make between Russell and Fields. There are rumors that the Jags might want to trade Trevor Lawrence. The Titans have appeared to have moved on from Will Levis.

Despite all the smoke Macdonald has blown up Geno's rear lately, there's a good possibility that we might see something happen at the quarterback position during the offseason. I doubt that we'll give him a lucrative extension, or at least I hope that we don't. Let him play out his final season under contract then go from there. If he holds out, screw him.

But I'm with you about Mac seemingly recognizing the importance of the OL by our considering Fraley as OC. I don't know if he's the right man for the job or not, but at least it's an indication that Mac prioritizes the OL more than Pete did.

Blowing smoke matters not at all as we all know. Pete said Tarvaris was his guy years ago and they certainly didn't take actions like that bringing in Matt Flynn and drafting Russ. NFL is a results driven league and Geno isn't going to get the results long-term. It's a matter of when, not if, Geno will be gone. He may get one more year, but it will come down to long-term upside and not short-term performance at some point.

[NorthHawk]

I would guess that Darnold lost himself a lot of money the last 2 games. He's like Geno in that he doesn't handle pressure very well and can panic when he is forced to move out of the pocket but if the pass protection holds up he can make some amazing throws into tight coverage. I think he's a product of the system and coaching in Minnesota and fully expect JJ McCarthy to be their starter next year even if he re-signs with the Vikings.

[Aseahawkfan]

I would guess that Darnold lost himself a lot of money the last 2 games. He's like Geno in that he doesn't handle pressure very well and can panic when he is forced to move out of the pocket but if the pass protection holds up he can make some amazing throws into tight coverage. I think he's a product of the system and coaching in Minnesota and fully expect JJ McCarthy to be their starter next year even if he re-signs with the Vikings.

The Vikings looked like smoke and mirrors to me feasting on weak teams. That's what happened to them in the playoffs.

[curmudgeon]

The Los Angeles Rams will win the Super Bowl…….

[NorthHawk]

Ugh.

[4XPIPS]

I wouldn't mine taking a shot at Will Levis, like for a 6th round Pick. The arm talent is there, and I really believe Titans are an organizational blackhole at QB. Dating back to when they drafted Jack Locker, they have never been able to develop a solid QB year after year even with multiple coaching and GM changes this team just can't develop a QB. I would take a low risk shot at Will Levis and hopefully get a solid QB coach to work with him.