Let's talk about John Schneider

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Re: Let's talk about John Schneider

Postby Aseahawkfan » Wed Nov 06, 2024 5:42 pm

River Dog wrote:I pretty much agree except for the part about Russell, at least not the Russell towards the end of his time with us. He held onto the ball so damn long that it put enormous stress on our offensive line, which by all of our estimates, was very suspect to say the least. You can cover for a poor offensive line if you're like Tom Brady or Drew Brees and consistently get the ball out in under 2.5 seconds, but not when you have a QB with a diminishing skill set who refuses to adjust.

I don't want to turn this thread into another Russell Wilson debate, so I'll not comment about his relationship with this subject any further.

At 29, Mahomes is still at the peak of his physical skills, but it won't be very many years before he, too, will have to start adjusting. The guy is insane now, though, obviously the best player in the game today.


I did write Russell in his prime.

Russell later in his career may have been somewhat unhappy because of the lack of building an O-line around him. Who knows what happened behind closed doors. But it seems no matter how many draft picks we spend on O-line, it doesn't seem to be working. I remember reading way back when Pete first arrived he was using that famous Denver O-line coach's philosophy that wanted more athletic lineman and seemed to believe you could build a quality O-line without spending heavy because you would do zone blocking which required the O-lineman to block an area. It didn't work out too well. I think Cable kept that zone blocking philosophy for years even after the original O-line coach Pete brought in left because he didn't like the laid back atmosphere and music.

Is John still hanging on to the zone blocking philosophy that devalues O-linemen?
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Re: Let's talk about John Schneider

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Nov 06, 2024 7:16 pm

Here is my list of teams with as bad or worse Offensive lines as us.
It’s not a good group to be included in.

NFC
Cowboys
Giants
Bears
Possibly the Saints

AFC
Patriots
Jaguars
Titans
Raiders

If my math is correct that leaves 23 teams with better OLs. it’s no wonder we are struggling.
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Re: Let's talk about John Schneider

Postby 4XPIPS » Mon Dec 16, 2024 2:51 pm

This last Packers game was a perfect illustration of contrasting franchises. The Packers continue to build a solid offense line, and like many discussed in the Hawks/Packers game thread, it doesn't appear we as organization can either draft offensive lineman correctly, or develop them correctly.

Since Russ has left the building, we have not drafted or seemed to have a QBOTF in place. I certainly don't think Sam Howell can be the guy, but again it was a small sample size. Not sure what JS plan going forward for the Mike Macdonald at QB, but if we can't build an offensive line to protect better or run block better with in the next 2 years, than I am thoroughly convinced JS isn't the guy that can turn this team into a contender.
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Re: Let's talk about John Schneider

Postby Aseahawkfan » Mon Dec 16, 2024 4:28 pm

I'm impressed Green Bay has drafted and developed a high quality starting QB for the last 30 years or so. Green Bay went from Favre to Rodgers to Love. That is some smart management of the QB position, best in the league. Not sure why no one else has been able to manage it as well.
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Re: Let's talk about John Schneider

Postby 4XPIPS » Mon Dec 16, 2024 5:34 pm

Aseahawkfan wrote:I'm impressed Green Bay has drafted and developed a high quality starting QB for the last 30 years or so. Green Bay went from Favre to Rodgers to Love. That is some smart management of the QB position, best in the league. Not sure why no one else has been able to manage it as well.


Because each of those QBs were not day one starters as rookies, let alone their second year. I think it does so much to a young QB to have them sit for at least a year before thrusting them onto the spotlight and expect them to be great because they were drafted high. Look at Sam Darnold, he is still only 27, but after a few years of playing getting some experience he is panning out to be a decent QB. Imagine if Sam Darnold sat for a few years, and was given time to mature and see the game progress. Who knows if he would be a consistent starter.

I think there are some outliers that are day one Rookie QB starters that do well overtime, but for the majority it stunts' their development and they never develop into a true solid starter, and result to becoming journeyman QBs, or career backups.
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Re: Let's talk about John Schneider

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Dec 16, 2024 5:49 pm

For a QB to develop they also need a good QB coach and a plan on how to develop him. The Packers had Tom Clements who I think coached Favre for a time but also trained Rodgers and the first couple of years for Love. If a team doesn’t have a good quarterback coach they could be wasting a top talent and valuable draft pick.
Oh, it also takes a patient owner who won’t demand the young QB play too soon.
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Re: Let's talk about John Schneider

Postby Aseahawkfan » Mon Dec 16, 2024 5:56 pm

NorthHawk wrote:For a QB to develop they also need a good QB coach and a plan on how to develop him. The Packers had Tom Clements who I think coached Favre for a time but also trained Rodgers and the first couple of years for Love. If a team doesn’t have a good quarterback coach they could be wasting a top talent and valuable draft pick.
Oh, it also takes a patient owner who won’t demand the young QB play too soon.


Who is our QB coach? Is he any good?
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Re: Let's talk about John Schneider

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Dec 16, 2024 6:08 pm

Apparently Charles London is our QB coach. I don’t know much about him.
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Re: Let's talk about John Schneider

Postby 4XPIPS » Mon Dec 16, 2024 6:54 pm

NorthHawk wrote:For a QB to develop they also need a good QB coach and a plan on how to develop him. The Packers had Tom Clements who I think coached Favre for a time but also trained Rodgers and the first couple of years for Love. If a team doesn’t have a good quarterback coach they could be wasting a top talent and valuable draft pick.
Oh, it also takes a patient owner who won’t demand the young QB play too soon.

Aseahawkfan wrote:Who is our QB coach? Is he any good?


We had Dave Canales for many years, as he had pretty good success with Russ, and also Geno's magical first year as a starter. Geno's second year he left for the Bucs and had success with Baker last season, and was thought to be a the QB whisperer who could fix Bryce Young. So the Panthers hired him to be the HC and hopefully help Bryce, but Bryce could be damaged goods at this point.

Not sure if our QB coach is any good, but since Geno has been our starter he had Dave Canales his 1st season, Greg Olson his 2nd season, and now Charles London. Of course with a new coaching staff this season it would expected to have change.
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Re: Let's talk about John Schneider

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Dec 16, 2024 10:21 pm

Bryce Young seems to have turned a corner lately. He may never be as good as a 1st overall selection would expect to be, but he's improving now.
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Re: Let's talk about John Schneider

Postby 4XPIPS » Tue Dec 17, 2024 12:51 pm

NorthHawk wrote:Bryce Young seems to have turned a corner lately. He may never be as good as a 1st overall selection would expect to be, but he's improving now.



I am not sure he has quite won over the Panthers or the fan base. His last game he is 1 TD / 2 INTs and sacked 6 times vs the Cowboys. I know the Panthers have nothing to play for so why not start him and get him some more reps, but with a high 1st round pick coming up, I wouldn't be surprised the Panthers pull the plug on him and draft another QB and start over, no different want the bears did with Fields, and the Cards did with Rosen.

Levis is getting the boot from the Titans, and quite honestly I think he has massive upside but needs to sit a couple of seasons before he could be a starter. I wouldn't mind taking a chance on him with a 6th round draft pick, and bring him and give him a couple off seasons.
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