Seahawks Mt. Rushmore

[Oly]

There are threads at .net and Field Gulls based on a recent NFL Throwback video making a Mt. Rushmore for each team. Those threads are interesting, but the discussions here are better so I thought I'd start a new thread.

Here's the NFL Throwback list:
Wilson
Largent
Jones
Wagner

Now, my TL;DR version:
Largent
Jones
Kam
Tez

VL;WR (very long; worth-reading) version:
I think it's important that the question is the *Mount Rushmore* of Hawks, not the best Hawks. If we're just going for the best Hawks, then the HOFers (Largent, Jones, Easley, Tez) would be a good choice.

But the Mount Rushmore of Hawks should be about which players defined important eras because that's what Mount Rushmore is all about:

Gutzon Borglum selected these four presidents because from his perspective, they represented the most important events in the history of the United States.

So, with that in mind, my Rushmore has two easy selections:
1. Largent. He was our first HOFer and was, IMO, the most iconic Hawk from the first era of the franchise. I think Easley was a much better player, but for most Hawk fans, Largent is the face of the 80s teams. His hit on Harden is legend, he broke the decades-long TD record, etc. He was great, he gave us moments, and he was loyal for his career.
2. Jones. The Holmgren years brought us our first SB appearance and his teams were all about the offense. The fact that the best player in Hawks history played in our first SB and on the side of the line that defined that team makes him an easy choice.

Now it gets tough, because we need a representative of the next most important team (chronologically), the SB-winning team. That team has to have a member of the LOB because the LOB defined that team. I think you could make a good argument for Wags here because he's the only surefire HOF player from that defense. And if you think of him being part of the "LOB defense" then that makes sense. But I always think that the LOB = Kam, ETIII, and Sherm, so for me it has to be one of those guys. I think ETIII was the most important player in terms of scheme because Pete's defense doesn't work without him. But he was never a representative for that defense. Plus, with how he left, there's no way in hell he gets up there. Sherm was the best known face/voice and has The Tip and the interview after that, and he has a marginal HOF case, so you could go with him and I wouldn't argue. But I'm going with...

3. Kam. He was the soul of that defense, the reason the LOB was feared. And he had the most iconic moment of the biggest game of Hawks history. When he laid out Thomas (like Vernon Davis before him) I had no doubt the Hawks would win. He'll never get into the HOF, but the Mount Rushmore isn't about our best players. It's the era-defining ones, and I'll take Kam.

The fourth one is also tough, because I'm not sure there is a fourth important era of Hawks teams. What other team was good enough to demand a representative? None, IMO. We could go with Paul Allen, because he saved the team. But an owner is weird on this, to me at least. You could go with Pete, because obviously, but I would rather have just players. Personal preference and I wouldn't argue with others who are okay with non-players. We could point to the SB-winning team and say we need a second representative because the win is the most important moment in Hawks history, and then you can go with Wags (most likely HOFer), Wilson (most important position), or BeastMode (he was the first player to give the Hawks an identity as a physical team, plus he's my favorite Hawk because he's just awesome). But I think that team doesn't need a second rep. That's why I'd have the fourth face be...

4. Tez. There is nothing about this team or era worth memorializing, but I think he's the second-best Hawk of all time (barely nudging Easley because there are fewer elite DTs than safeties), and he's from a different era than we already have.

We've now got each of the four decades (roughly) represented. Two offense, two defense, different personalities, different positions. This feels well-rounded, respectful of history, and true to the team I've loved watching for 40 years.

[River_Dog]

My list includes, as almost all lists would have to, our 4 HOF'ers:

Steve Largent Widely considered the best receiver in his era, retired owning the triple crown of receiving records of most receiving yards, most receiving TD's, and most receptions.

Walter Jones Not just the best Seahawk offensive lineman or the best in his era. Big Walt has to be part of any conversation involving the best left tackle of all time. He was called for holding just 9 times in his entire career. Walt has as many Pro Bowl appearances as he had holding penalties. Plus, I got to shake hands with him.

Cortez Kennedy Best interior defender we've ever had, excellent run stuffer and pass rusher. Even though he's in the HOF, he doesn't get the credit he deserves because he played on some of the worst teams in the league during his tenure.

Kenny Easley A little shaky because of the length of his career was just 7 seasons, cut short by a permanently damaged kidney which ultimately led to his premature death. He could eventually be replaced by ET as I fully expect him to qualify by putting on a gold jacket. But he was an unquestioned force on defense. The first place an opposing QB looked when they broke their huddle was to see where Easley was lining up.

Earl Thomas and Richard Sherman, providing they make the HOF, deserve to be on that list. Personally, I'm reluctant to include Kam because he held out shortly after signing a new contract, arguably starting the demise of the LOB era. Beast deserves an honorable mention. There isn't a snowball's chance in hell of me ever including Russell Wilson because (1) he won't make the HOF and (2) the way he left our team. ROH, yes, once the scars heal. But not Mt. Rushmore.

[Aseahawkfan]

1. Jones
2. Largent
3. Wilson
4. Carroll

Gotta have a coach up on the Rushmore. What Pete did as coach is better than all the players in my opinion. Four time number one points allowed defense which is an NFL record even stacked up against the Steel Curtain, The Doomsday Defense, and even more recent defenses like Baltimore Ravens record setting defense. Back to back Super Bowl appearances and one win. First bonafide super star QB drafted. Pete gotta be on my Mount Rushmore of Seahawks. We may never see a better era of football in Seattle than the Carroll Era of Seahawks football. If I'm building a Rushmore style of monument, Pete is on that monument.

Wilson because he has set the bar for all other QBs. When he was flying, our offense was dynamic and amazing. Obviously a better QB can replace him down the line, but right now he's on my Rushmore.

Big Walt and Largent do not really need much be said. Seahawk fans know who they are.

[River_Dog]

1. Jones
2. Largent
3. Wilson
4. Carroll

Gotta have a coach up on the Rushmore. What Pete did as coach is better than all the players in my opinion. Four time number one points allowed defense which is an NFL record even stacked up against the Steel Curtain, The Doomsday Defense, and even more recent defenses like Baltimore Ravens record setting defense. Back to back Super Bowl appearances and one win. First bonafide super star QB drafted. Pete gotta be on my Mount Rushmore of Seahawks. We may never see a better era of football in Seattle than the Carroll Era of Seahawks football. If I'm building a Rushmore style of monument, Pete is on that monument.

Wilson because he has set the bar for all other QBs. When he was flying, our offense was dynamic and amazing. Obviously a better QB can replace him down the line, but right now he's on my Rushmore.

Big Walt and Largent do not really need much be said. Seahawk fans know who they are.

The fan base would never sit for Russell Wilson being on Mt. Rushmore, at least not for a long, long time. Hawktawk wasn't alone in his hatred. And if we're going to put a non-player in granite, I'd opt for Paul Allen instead of Pete. Nothing against Pete, he's the best coach we've ever had and responsible for the best period of Seahawk football in franchise history. But Paul Allen is the man who made it happen, saved the franchise from being moved to SoCal, who hired the Walrus, fired Jim Mora after one season, and hired Pete.

[Stream Hawk]

I can get behind River’s list. I saw the same list on nfl.com or wherever it was. I definitely do not think Bobby Wagner is on the Mount Rushmore. I think there are way too many recent bias 1212s out there. I got into a bit of a back-and-forth discussion about this on Twitter when I said Tez over Wagner any day.

Interesting inclusion of Kam, but I’ll take him over Wilson to rep the LOB.

[River_Dog]

I can get behind River’s list. I saw the same list on nfl.com or wherever it was. I definitely do not think Bobby Wagner is on the Mount Rushmore. I think there are way too many recent bias 1212s out there. I got into a bit of a back-and-forth discussion about this on Twitter when I said Tez over Wagner any day.

Interesting inclusion of Kam, but I’ll take him over Wilson to rep the LOB.

Tez's curse was that he played on some God-awful teams, and yes, I do think there are still some biases out there. The fact that Gen Z and many of the Millennials never saw Tez play tends to weight these types of lists towards the more recent players.

Part of my list is based on personalities and what they meant to the fans, not just pure football play. Kam was just one year into a 4-year contract extension that was already paying him top dollar. It was the beginning of the end for the LOB, and something that is going to take some time for many of us fans to get over. He was never the same player when he returned.

Russell's exit, the lies he told, were bad enough to where I wouldn't put him on my list for at least another 5, perhaps 10 years.

[Aseahawkfan]

The fan base would never sit for Russell Wilson being on Mt. Rushmore, at least not for a long, long time. Hawktawk wasn't alone in his hatred. And if we're going to put a non-player in granite, I'd opt for Paul Allen instead of Pete. Nothing against Pete, he's the best coach we've ever had and responsible for the best period of Seahawk football in franchise history. But Paul Allen is the man who made it happen, saved the franchise from being moved to SoCal, who hired the Walrus, fired Jim Mora after one season, and hired Pete.

Damn. Paul Allen can replace Russell. He was the bedrock of 20 plus years of great Seahawks football.

[River_Dog]

The fan base would never sit for Russell Wilson being on Mt. Rushmore, at least not for a long, long time. Hawktawk wasn't alone in his hatred. And if we're going to put a non-player in granite, I'd opt for Paul Allen instead of Pete. Nothing against Pete, he's the best coach we've ever had and responsible for the best period of Seahawk football in franchise history. But Paul Allen is the man who made it happen, saved the franchise from being moved to SoCal, who hired the Walrus, fired Jim Mora after one season, and hired Pete.

Damn. Paul Allen can replace Russell. He was the bedrock of 20 plus years of great Seahawks football.

If you want to put Largent, Big Walt, Paul Allen, and Pete Carroll up there, which is what I think you were saying, then I could agree with you. But the impression I got was that this proposition was about players, not coaches and owners.

[4XPIPS]

Mack Strong has to be on there, 14 years, which is practically unheard of these days at the running back position.

[Aseahawkfan]

If you want to put Largent, Big Walt, Paul Allen, and Pete Carroll up there, which is what I think you were saying, then I could agree with you. But the impression I got was that this proposition was about players, not coaches and owners.

I was thinking my Rushmore. That's a pretty set in stone monument, pun intended. I consider our best owner and best coach to have been more key than players for our greatness. Carroll gave me a defense for the ages. This I have wanted as much as a Super Bowl. Nothing made me happier than having a named defense. It wasn't some goofy, meaningless name. The Legion of Boom stands for greatness. They earned that name. For about five years no one was as good as our defense. We had the most feared secondary in all of football. They rag dolled Peyton Manning's record setting Denver Bronco offense during his career year. Pete drafted and developed that secondary as well as drafting Bobby Wagner and KJ Wright.

And Paul Allen made sure we had head coaches to have a real shot at a Super Bowl. Holmgren and Carroll were brought in by Paul Allen.

It's hard to imagine a Seahawk Rushmore without Allen and Carroll. I don't think any player had more of an impact on our best years of football than those two.

[River_Dog]

Mack Strong has to be on there, 14 years, which is practically unheard of these days at the running back position.

Very deserving and definitely ROH worthy, but he just doesn't have the firepower to get into the top 4, which is the number of busts that appear on the real Mt. Rushmore.

[Oly]

It's hard to imagine a Seahawk Rushmore without Allen and Carroll. I don't think any player had more of an impact on our best years of football than those two.

This is so obviously true, but that's precisely why I didn't consider non-players. Owners, coaches, and GMs, just by the nature of their roles, have so much more power to shape a franchise than players do. It's unfair to expect a player to ever be as important as the person who drafted and coached them, and the owner(s) who made the team happen. If we consider non-players, then I think that the Rushmore of most important people associated with the franchise are Allen, Holmgren, Schneider, and Carroll, with Knox being in the conversation. Then come Walt, Wilson, and Largent in some order.

But as I noted at the top, I think the Rushmore discussion is different than "best" or "most important," and that's what makes it fun for me. Which players symbolize the most important moments in the franchise's history?

The more I think about it, the more I am inclined to make room for Lynch, because he has certainly been a symbol for the team during it's peak run and even continued to be an odd sort of ambassador in the years since. I still think a member of the LOB has to be on Rushmore though. Not having one of them would be like not having a Purple People Eater on the Vikings Rushmore. Not many units in football history are great enough for a name, and we were lucky enough to have one in Seattle, so they get a guaranteed spot on my Rushmore. So Kam can only be replaced by ETIII (hell no) or Sherm. That leaves me with the Lynch or Tez debate, and it feels wrong to do Tez dirty like that. I'm still mulling that one over.

[River_Dog]

The more I think about it, the more I am inclined to make room for Lynch, because he has certainly been a symbol for the team during it's peak run and even continued to be an odd sort of ambassador in the years since. I still think a member of the LOB has to be on Rushmore though. Not having one of them would be like not having a Purple People Eater on the Vikings Rushmore. Not many units in football history are great enough for a name, and we were lucky enough to have one in Seattle, so they get a guaranteed spot on my Rushmore. So Kam can only be replaced by ETIII (hell no) or Sherm. That leaves me with the Lynch or Tez debate, and it feels wrong to do Tez dirty like that. I'm still mulling that one over.

Good point about Beast.

The other thing to consider is the eras they represent. Largent, Tez, and Walt all come from different, distinct eras, so it would be fitting to have just one representative of the LOB era, and Lynch is perhaps the best symbol of the LOB era.

The other player of whom I'm surprised hasn't at least gotten an honorable mention is Shaun Alexander, the franchise's only league MVP.

[Aseahawkfan]

This is so obviously true, but that's precisely why I didn't consider non-players. Owners, coaches, and GMs, just by the nature of their roles, have so much more power to shape a franchise than players do. It's unfair to expect a player to ever be as important as the person who drafted and coached them, and the owner(s) who made the team happen. If we consider non-players, then I think that the Rushmore of most important people associated with the franchise are Allen, Holmgren, Schneider, and Carroll, with Knox being in the conversation. Then come Walt, Wilson, and Largent in some order.

But as I noted at the top, I think the Rushmore discussion is different than "best" or "most important," and that's what makes it fun for me. Which players symbolize the most important moments in the franchise's history?

The more I think about it, the more I am inclined to make room for Lynch, because he has certainly been a symbol for the team during it's peak run and even continued to be an odd sort of ambassador in the years since. I still think a member of the LOB has to be on Rushmore though. Not having one of them would be like not having a Purple People Eater on the Vikings Rushmore. Not many units in football history are great enough for a name, and we were lucky enough to have one in Seattle, so they get a guaranteed spot on my Rushmore. So Kam can only be replaced by ETIII (hell no) or Sherm. That leaves me with the Lynch or Tez debate, and it feels wrong to do Tez dirty like that. I'm still mulling that one over.

I don't agree about Holmgren. He did not win a Super Bowl and his units weren't particularly great. Carroll's QB Wilson even passed Hasselbeck on the best QB list and Carroll was a defensive coach. Schneider still has to prove himself without Carroll. We have no idea if Schneider can do anything without Carroll. Knox did next to nothing and isn't even in the conversation. Barely made the playoffs and is remembered well because he was an early coach, but he's not even close to in the Rushmore Conversation.

What Carroll did is so far ahead of any other head coach that it isn't even close a conversation. Drafted and developed the best Seahawks QB. Drafted and developed the best Seahawks defense. Not just best for Seattle, but one of the best defenses in NFL history that set a points allowed record by holding number one for four straight years that had never been done not even by the Steel Curtain or the Purple People Eaters. Took us to back to back Super Bowls winning one. And absolutely crushed a record setting Broncos offense. This was an offense that statistically was one of the best in NFL history led by a Peyton Manning that threw 55 TDs. Peyton won MVP and Offensive Player of the Year and the Seattle defense took him and made him look like some rookie chump who threw for a single TD. It had to be one of the greatest defensive performances in a Super Bowl in NFL history given how well that Denver offense performed in the year.

We don't have Carroll or Holmgren with all the playoff runs and Super Bowl trips without Allen. Basically, we don't have a Lombardi.

I can't do a Rushmore without Carroll and Allen. It feels wrong to me.

I don't see any other coach or owner or GM as close to what Carroll and Allen did. Allen made us competitive during his entire time as owner. And Carroll turned this franchise in Alaska as we all used to make fun of into the hottest team in the NFL and raised our profile far beyond what it had been. He made Seattle a little bit Hollywood with that secondary and characters like Lynch and Wilson.

I personally doubt we will ever see an era of football as good as the Carroll Era in Seattle. A bunch of us will die remembering what Pete Carroll and the Legion of Boom and that team did from about 2012 to 2015.

I will never be able to imagine a Rushmore without Carroll's coif and gum chewing face on that mountain. I truly feel I will die never seeing better football in Seattle as much as everyone is looking forward to Mike MacDonald hopefully making us competitive again. The Carroll Era was our Steel Curtain or Patriots Bill and Brady Era. It ain't coming back at least I don't believe it.

Schneider is going to have to prove to me he can do this without Carroll before I believe it.

[4XPIPS]

these are all great points, and somewhat looking at things the glass half full... but just for fun how about looking at the glass half empty. I mean it's always a great debate who would be the 4 players on Mount Rushmore, how about the 4 players who are Mount Failmore.

Brian Bozworth
Dan McGwire
Rick Mirer
Ken Behring

[Aseahawkfan]

Ken Behring we bury under the mountain. He tried to destroy the Seahawks and take them from Seattle. At least the other guys were trying to do well and failed for other reasons, Behring did his crap on purpose.

I still think The Boz would have been an amazing Seattle player if he hadn't blown his shoulders out in college. He gave us all he had, but unfortunately his body was broken. He was at least a fun guy to have in Seattle. Even I remember his T-shirts and tough talk. I just wish he had been healthier.

[River_Dog]

these are all great points, and somewhat looking at things the glass half full... but just for fun how about looking at the glass half empty. I mean it's always a great debate who would be the 4 players on Mount Rushmore, how about the 4 players who are Mount Failmore.

Brian Bozworth
Dan McGwire
Rick Mirer
Ken Behring

Bosworth didn't come close to living up to the hype, but he gave us a couple solid years of linebacker play. Rick Mirer was OROY in his first season, and we recouped a #1 pick when we traded him.

Aaron Curry, for being our 2nd highest draft pick ever, deserves to be up there, as does Steve Neihaus, our first and highest draft pick. Lamar King, Holmgren's first draft pick for us, was a complete bust.

Behring deserves to be in a class by himself. No player deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Behring. Wait! Maybe Dan McGuire, since it was McGuire who Behring insisted we draft instead of Chuck Knox's preference of Bret Favre.

Jeez, just writing down some of those names makes my skin crawl.

[4XPIPS]

Ken Behring we bury under the mountain. He tried to destroy the Seahawks and take them from Seattle. At least the other guys were trying to do well and failed for other reasons, Behring did his crap on purpose.

I still think The Boz would have been an amazing Seattle player if he hadn't blown his shoulders out in college. He gave us all he had, but unfortunately his body was broken. He was at least a fun guy to have in Seattle. Even I remember his T-shirts and tough talk. I just wish he had been healthier.

I guess it was more of a let down considering the hype that was built around the Boz, and the excessive steriod consumption he need to juice himself up. Well let's be honest I wouldn't doubt any top tier player during his time wasn't juicing it up during that time, so I guess it was fair game.

[4XPIPS]

Bosworth didn't come close to living up to the hype, but he gave us a couple solid years of linebacker play. Rick Mirer was OROY in his first season, and we recouped a #1 pick when we traded him.

Aaron Curry, for being our 2nd highest draft pick ever, deserves to be up there, as does Steve Neihaus, our first and highest draft pick. Lamar King, Holmgren's first draft pick for us, was a complete bust.

Behring deserves to be in a class by himself. No player deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Behring. Wait! Maybe Dan McGuire, since it was McGuire who Behring insisted we draft instead of Chuck Knox's preference of Bret Favre.

Jeez, just writing down some of those names makes my skin crawl.

Aaron Curry, how did I forget? I thought it was Tom Flores who drafted big tall Dan McGuire? But I certainly could be wrong there. If weren't for Marcus Tubbs injuries I would have thought he would have had a solid career.

[Old but Slow]

How about a group of individual plays? Beast Mode, Kam's great hit on that TE (what's his name?), Sherman's tip, or Witherspoon's 98 yard pick 6, and Largent's hit on Harden,for example.

[Stream Hawk]

Good idea, OBS! But IMO Spoon’s opening scene pick 6 can’t be on same level as these:
1.Tip,
2. Kearse GW,
3. Any play of 2005 NFC championship,
4. Beast Quake?

[NorthHawk]

Putting plays on a Mt. Rushmore type of monument would take up a lot of space, but it might be cool to see the team greats immortalized near the entrances on the outside of the building.
It would be good landmarks for finding people (Meet you at noon at the Cortez Kennedy entrance).

[River_Dog]

Bosworth didn't come close to living up to the hype, but he gave us a couple solid years of linebacker play. Rick Mirer was OROY in his first season, and we recouped a #1 pick when we traded him.

Aaron Curry, for being our 2nd highest draft pick ever, deserves to be up there, as does Steve Neihaus, our first and highest draft pick. Lamar King, Holmgren's first draft pick for us, was a complete bust.

Behring deserves to be in a class by himself. No player deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Behring. Wait! Maybe Dan McGuire, since it was McGuire who Behring insisted we draft instead of Chuck Knox's preference of Bret Favre.

Jeez, just writing down some of those names makes my skin crawl.

Aaron Curry, how did I forget? I thought it was Tom Flores who drafted big tall Dan McGuire? But I certainly could be wrong there. If weren't for Marcus Tubbs injuries I would have thought he would have had a solid career.

McGuire was the 16th overall pick in 1991. Knox was our HC from 83-91, so you were off by a year. You're probably thinking of Rick Mirer, who was drafted by Flores.

Agreed about Tubbs, which is why I didn't mention him. Unless a player had a bad injury history in college, I always try to differentiate between players that didn't reach their potential due to injuries apart from players like Curry and Mirer who didn't have that excuse to fall back on.

[Oly]

I don't agree about Holmgren. He did not win a Super Bowl and his units weren't particularly great. Carroll's QB Wilson even passed Hasselbeck on the best QB list and Carroll was a defensive coach. Schneider still has to prove himself without Carroll. We have no idea if Schneider can do anything without Carroll. Knox did next to nothing and isn't even in the conversation. Barely made the playoffs and is remembered well because he was an early coach, but he's not even close to in the Rushmore Conversation.

I didn't say that Holmgren or Schneider were particularly great, just that they had more power to shape a franchise. And even without being a great coach, Holmgren and even Knox shaped the franchise more than any player could. My point was just that they have so much ability to shape a franchise that it's unfair to expect any player to compete.

What Carroll did is so far ahead of any other head coach that it isn't even close a conversation. Drafted and developed the best Seahawks QB. Drafted and developed the best Seahawks defense. Not just best for Seattle, but one of the best defenses in NFL history that set a points allowed record by holding number one for four straight years that had never been done not even by the Steel Curtain or the Purple People Eaters. Took us to back to back Super Bowls winning one. And absolutely crushed a record setting Broncos offense. This was an offense that statistically was one of the best in NFL history led by a Peyton Manning that threw 55 TDs. Peyton won MVP and Offensive Player of the Year and the Seattle defense took him and made him look like some rookie chump who threw for a single TD. It had to be one of the greatest defensive performances in a Super Bowl in NFL history given how well that Denver offense performed in the year.

We don't have Carroll or Holmgren with all the playoff runs and Super Bowl trips without Allen. Basically, we don't have a Lombardi.

[...] I don't see any other coach or owner or GM as close to what Carroll and Allen did. Allen made us competitive during his entire time as owner. And Carroll turned this franchise in Alaska as we all used to make fun of into the hottest team in the NFL and raised our profile far beyond what it had been. He made Seattle a little bit Hollywood with that secondary and characters like Lynch and Wilson.

I personally doubt we will ever see an era of football as good as the Carroll Era in Seattle. A bunch of us will die remembering what Pete Carroll and the Legion of Boom and that team did from about 2012 to 2015.

Agree with every word.

I can't do a Rushmore without Carroll and Allen. It feels wrong to me.

[...]I will never be able to imagine a Rushmore without Carroll's coif and gum chewing face on that mountain. I truly feel I will die never seeing better football in Seattle as much as everyone is looking forward to Mike MacDonald hopefully making us competitive again. The Carroll Era was our Steel Curtain or Patriots Bill and Brady Era. It ain't coming back at least I don't believe it.

Schneider is going to have to prove to me he can do this without Carroll before I believe it.

I totally get this, and all fair points. Those two are easily the most important people in bringing us the greatest run we've ever seen and may ever see.