Next up: the draft

[Aseahawkfan]

Bringing in Carter is doing due diligence. Hopefully Pete and John can see if this guy can be motivated to be worth a pick at 5 or 20.

[c_hawkbob]

The only way to evaluate Carter now (his tape speaks for itself) is face to face, asking hard question and getting the right answers. At this point it's a matter of Pete getting the answers he needs and trusting him to evaluate the quality and honesty of those answers. None of us will be in a position to second guess, we simply don't have the access to the information Pete will.

I'm good with trusting Pete's gut.

[jshawaii22]

I'm talking to a group of friends at Southpoint and they are pretty good wealth of knowledge. We were discussing the ditching of last year defensive tackles all the 'new' defensive linemen we need and it was stated that now that we are in a 3 - 4 base defense the existing defensive players were all let go because they were not fitting the 3 -4.

This led me to ask about Carter, and the answer is NO, he doesn't play in a defense that fits us. We should be looking for a true nose tackle. These are the top 3 NOSE tackles and the NFL Website rating:
#37. Mazi Smith ; #50. Keeanu Benton ; Position Rank. #55. Siaki Ika.

What do you all think about that? How much does the 3-4 change our draft?

[Hawktawk]

I'm talking to a group of friends at Southpoint and they are pretty good wealth of knowledge. We were discussing the ditching of last year defensive tackles all the 'new' defensive linemen we need and it was stated that now that we are in a 3 - 4 base defense the existing defensive players were all let go because they were not fitting the 3 -4.

This led me to ask about Carter, and the answer is NO, he doesn't play in a defense that fits us. We should be looking for a true nose tackle. These are the top 3 NOSE tackles and the NFL Website rating:
#37. Mazi Smith ; #50. Keeanu Benton ; Position Rank. #55. Siaki Ika.

What do you all think about that? How much does the 3-4 change our draft?

I think superior athletes can adapt to any scheme . Is that a description of Carter ? Not at pro day . It sounds like when he’s tuned up he’s a bowling ball with razor blades . I don’t worry about scheme with the guy . Conditioning and motor .

[govandals]

I'm talking to a group of friends at Southpoint and they are pretty good wealth of knowledge. We were discussing the ditching of last year defensive tackles all the 'new' defensive linemen we need and it was stated that now that we are in a 3 - 4 base defense the existing defensive players were all let go because they were not fitting the 3 -4.

This led me to ask about Carter, and the answer is NO, he doesn't play in a defense that fits us. We should be looking for a true nose tackle. These are the top 3 NOSE tackles and the NFL Website rating:
#37. Mazi Smith ; #50. Keeanu Benton ; Position Rank. #55. Siaki Ika.

What do you all think about that? How much does the 3-4 change our draft?

It absolutely changes draft perspective and roster management. Mazi Smith, Ika, Keondre Coburn, Jerrod Clark and Broderick Martin are prototype NT's. Benton and Jaquelin Roy, whom i both really like, have played a lot of NT but don't really have the size. Not really a good year to have a big hole at the position. I question if Pete will spend a highish pick there. It's gonna take just that to acquire Smith. I think Ika is overrated, he sure gets pushed around a lot for a big guy. I like Coburn mid late rounds but he has shorter arms. Clark plays a little top heavy, but he is a late round guy anyway.

I think the switch to the 3-4 is not a fit for Poona, hence the lack of urgency to bring him back. (although I heard somewhere he is asking for around $10 million a year). Rasheem Green wasn't a fit either, they let him walk away. Good 4-3 end, but not the size for a 3-4 end.

[c_hawkbob]

Sorry but Carter would absolutely top the list of NT in this draft, even if you were limiting his evaluation to just that position.

[NorthHawk]

I don't think that they would play him there as his primary position. I could see some type of pressure package with him up the middle, but he would be more effective as a DT with one of those NT's mentioned by jshawaii22. He's athletic enough to be able to impede the horizontal game that we go against in SF and Rams primarily, but with some other teams as well. But in the end it depends on how they want their DEs to play. Are they pressing or are they reading and reacting? I'm not so sure reading and reacting is his game, or at least the best use of his abilities. And it depends on the game situation, of course.

[c_hawkbob]

Of course they wouldn't, they would do exactly what Georgia did and move all around the line, make the offense account for him. Anywhere they put him if you don't put two blockers on him he's wrecking the play.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Of course they wouldn't, they would do exactly what Georgia did and move all around the line, make the offense account for him. Anywhere they put him if you don't put two blockers on him he's wrecking the play on passing downs.

Edit: "Anywhere they put him if you don't put two blockers on him he's wrecking the play" *on passing downs*

From his NFL.com prospect profile:

Could use a little more mass against NFL guards.
Loses momentum when swapping power with true heavyweights.
Neutralized by the size/strength of Florida’s O’Cyrus Torrence in 2022.
Tank ran out of gas in College Football Playoff semifinal against Ohio State.

If the Seahawks get him, assuming they maintain a 3 lineman front, Carter would be a DE on run downs and could move inside for passing downs. They'd still have to draft a true NT. Carter isn't one, and he'll need one to be consistently effective. Getting doubled on run blocking is a completely different animal than getting doubled on pass blocking. I doubt his ability to push back or even stand up two NFL OL pushing against him on run plays.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I'm talking to a group of friends at Southpoint and they are pretty good wealth of knowledge. We were discussing the ditching of last year defensive tackles all the 'new' defensive linemen we need and it was stated that now that we are in a 3 - 4 base defense the existing defensive players were all let go because they were not fitting the 3 -4.

This led me to ask about Carter, and the answer is NO, he doesn't play in a defense that fits us. We should be looking for a true nose tackle. These are the top 3 NOSE tackles and the NFL Website rating:
#37. Mazi Smith ; #50. Keeanu Benton ; Position Rank. #55. Siaki Ika.

What do you all think about that? How much does the 3-4 change our draft?

Agree with this. Also like Coburn late.

[RiverDog]

Of course they wouldn't, they would do exactly what Georgia did and move all around the line, make the offense account for him. Anywhere they put him if you don't put two blockers on him he's wrecking the play *on passing downs*.

From his NFL.com prospect profile:

Could use a little more mass against NFL guards.
Loses momentum when swapping power with true heavyweights.
Neutralized by the size/strength of Florida’s O’Cyrus Torrence in 2022.
Tank ran out of gas in College Football Playoff semifinal against Ohio State.

If the Seahawks get him, assuming they maintain a 3 lineman front, Carter would be a DE on run downs and could move inside for passing downs. They'd still have to draft a true NT. Carter isn't one, and he'll need one to be consistently effective. Getting doubled on run blocking is a completely different animal than getting doubled on pass blocking. I doubt his ability to push back or even stand up two NFL OL pushing against him on run plays.

I saw the same thing in the CFB playoffs, that his tank ran out of gas, and when you couple that with his horrid performance at his pro day, it really makes one wonder how he'll hold up against NFL competition.

[c_hawkbob]

When you quote me Mack, don't alter what I wrote, even in asterisks. Please write your addendum outside the quote so in future quotes, like Riv's, what said doesn't look to have been your altered version.

If I'd wanted to say "on passing downs" I would have. He wrecks run plays as well as pass plays, check his TFL's.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

When you quote me Mack, don't alter what I wrote, even in asterisks. Please write your addendum outside the quote so in future quotes, like Riv's, what said doesn't look to have been your altered version.

c_hawkbob, if you have a request to make of me, could you please phrase it as a request instead of a directive. A possibly better option would be a private message to me requesting the change. I think you know it wasn't a deliberate attempt to misstate what you said; I was just trying to save extra words and delineate my addendum as clearly as possible, but I've edited my post to clear any confusion. I'll avoid it in the future.

If I'd wanted to say "on passing downs" I would have. He wrecks run plays as well as pass plays, check his TFL's.

The TFL's are great, but a product of having 3 other down linemen. I don't rate him as a take-all-comers DT. If he comes to the Seahawks and their 3-4, he's going to need the help of a true NT on running plays. Why else do the benchmarks for 3-4 defenses go out of their way to get a specialized NT?

[c_hawkbob]

c_hawkbob, if you have a request to make of me, could you please phrase it as a request instead of a directive. I'm going to venture a guess that you would like me to do the same for you.

I did say please, I thought that made it a request.

[obiken]

I saw the same thing in the CFB playoffs, that his tank ran out of gas, and when you couple that with his horrid performance at his pro day, it really makes one wonder how he'll hold up against NFL competition.

Riv, when is the Draft 20th or 27th?

[RiverDog]

I saw the same thing in the CFB playoffs, that his tank ran out of gas, and when you couple that with his horrid performance at his pro day, it really makes one wonder how he'll hold up against NFL competition.

Riv, when is the Draft 20th or 27th?

It's actually a 3 day long event, starting on Thursday the 27th (Round 1), 28th (Rounds 2-3), and 29th (Rounds 4-7).

[Aseahawkfan]

It's actually a 3 day long event, starting on Thursday the 27th (Round 1), 28th (Rounds 2-3), and 29th (Rounds 4-7).

You going somewhere for the draft?

[obiken]

It's actually a 3 day long event, starting on Thursday the 27th (Round 1), 28th (Rounds 2-3), and 29th (Rounds 4-7).

Thanks man! I liked it better when it started on Sat on ESPN and was over by Sunday afternoon, instead of the giant production it has become!

[RiverDog]

It's actually a 3 day long event, starting on Thursday the 27th (Round 1), 28th (Rounds 2-3), and 29th (Rounds 4-7).

Thanks man! I liked it better when it started on Sat on ESPN and was over by Sunday afternoon, instead of the giant production it has become!

Yeah, and I remember the days when you didn't even find out who your team drafted untll the day after. It's all part of the NFL's master plan, to squeeze as much revenue as possible out of every event.

[Hawktawk]

I cant remember being as engaged for any draft in my life. Its been a wacky year.
My current tradition for the first round is the Ten Pin Taproom. It began when my GM from the MLCC invited me down for the 2010 draft

2017 was interesting . I was real tired but hell with it its the draft. I was sitting on a high stool with a beer and water talking to a Giants fan named Larry. All of a sudden the lights started slowly dimming and I woke up with Larry holding me up. Said I had been out for a minute. I wound up in an ambulance headed to Wenatchee for a 3 day stay from loss of blood from a GI bleed. So not many memories of 2017 that are good.

Ill have my huge Hawks fan son with me for the first time. Cant wait!

[NorthHawk]

For me the draft goes like this:
Day 1: Wait for our pick or picks and know a lot about the players and think I know who are the better fits for us. I'm usually wrong on who we select, but still have an opinion.
Day 2: This is the meat of the draft where some really good value picks are available. Often Pro Bowlers and All Pros are found in these rounds. Like Round 1, I'm usually wrong on who we pick.
Day 3: I don't know a lot after round 4 but it's where the real surprises come along including upon occasion the Undrafted Free Agents we end up signing.

[RiverDog]

HT, if you're like me, the reason you're so engaged in this draft is because we haven't had the picks we've had in any previous draft in recent history, with the closest being Pete's first year when we had 2-#1's.

I'll be pretty engaged on Day 1 and Day 2, but likely won't even take a peek until after it's all done. I'm not the draftnik that others on this forum are.

[Hawktawk]

Hooked on the first round live. They got me on that one . I’m excited because of the entire thing from the trade to a spectacular draft to my weird premonition we would overachieve to Denver’s face plant putting us where we are . 2013 is far and away the greatest season in team history but this has been the craziest most entertaining 12 months in my 40 + years of fandom. And if we get it right on the 27th this team could contend this upcoming year .we are solidly second in our division right now . Don’t sleep on Seattle

[NorthHawk]

AHA! Fairweather Draftniks. I could tell by your vastly uninformed choices. /s

It's really just a guess as to who we will select and you have to have a fair amount of time to devote to researching players.
For me it starts with the media big boards to get an idea of the players themselves, then try to find games to watch them play and do my amateur scouting. Along the way I often find comments about players that tell me if they are risky or not from a motivational/team fit PoV. It doesn't always work as I missed on Charles Cross, thinking he would have a much tougher time than a LT from a more traditional or Pro Offense, but was right about Lucas being the better player early. And for a later round prospect, I didn't know much of anything about Woolen outside of him being a fast and long CB which fits Pete's athletic profile for a CB. His maturity is what has separated him it seems, and allowed him to become a better player than his draft slot would indicate. But teams miss out on players in the draft, too. Doug Baldwin was undrafted and so was Hall of Famer John Randle, so players can and are regularly found all through the draft and that's what's interesting to me.

[Hawktawk]

It’s a crap shoot . Zach Wilson was ? #2 overall ? Russ 3rd round . Brady 6th. But then there’s Mahomes etc. we had a guy back in the day , Krieg undrafted from Milton that closed who has some career stats that are very impressive , could have won it all with a few more pieces and some luck . I also think Jermaine Kearse was undrafted and actually made some of the biggest catches in the history of the franchise .I believe he brought good trade value from the jets too .

I think the cream rises to the top most of the time but I believe guys slip through the cracks . Guys peak in college while others improve their entire career . I believe players are given up on too soon . Especially quarterbacks . But it’s the pressure of a microwave win now league .

[mykc14]

It’s a crap shoot . Zach Wilson was ? #2 overall ? Russ 3rd round . Brady 6th. But then there’s Mahomes etc. we had a guy back in the day , Krieg undrafted from Milton that closed who has some career stats that are very impressive , could have won it all with a few more pieces and some luck . I also think Jermaine Kearse was undrafted and actually made some of the biggest catches in the history of the franchise .I believe he brought good trade value from the jets too .

I think the cream rises to the top most of the time but I believe guys slip through the cracks . Guys peak in college while others improve their entire career . I believe players are given up on too soon . Especially quarterbacks . But it’s the pressure of a microwave win now league .

You can add Doug Baldwin, Poona Ford, Rufus Porter, Michael Bennett, Joe Nash and Eugene Robinson to the list of undrafted Seahawks

[Aseahawkfan]

I don't watch college ball much at all. I barely know the players. Glad there are some on the forum who follow college ball and can point out the players we might want and be able to get.

[RiverDog]

It’s a crap shoot . Zach Wilson was ? #2 overall ? Russ 3rd round . Brady 6th. But then there’s Mahomes etc. we had a guy back in the day , Krieg undrafted from Milton that closed who has some career stats that are very impressive , could have won it all with a few more pieces and some luck . I also think Jermaine Kearse was undrafted and actually made some of the biggest catches in the history of the franchise .I believe he brought good trade value from the jets too .

I think the cream rises to the top most of the time but I believe guys slip through the cracks . Guys peak in college while others improve their entire career . I believe players are given up on too soon . Especially quarterbacks . But it’s the pressure of a microwave win now league .

You can add Doug Baldwin, Poona Ford, Rufus Porter, Michael Bennett, Joe Nash and Eugene Robinson to the list of undrafted Seahawks

We traded an 8th round pick for Steve Largent. Houston HC Bum Phillips had already told Largent that he was being released.

[HawkSis]

Ahhhh… the good old days. I believe my Cousin was drafted in the 12th round in 1978. When the NFL went to a 7 round event, URRFA’s got a lot better.

And not that anyone is monitoring my position on Carter, but if PCJS draft him, I’ll be good with it. It means they know a whole lot more than I do from sunny California. Go figure. I was awesome at powder puff, however. Jeez. What a dumb name…girls football couldn’t work?

[NorthHawk]

Reasons I think we should take a QB with the first pick:

When Seattle traded away their long time starting QB, it's clear that Geno wasn't intended to be the long term answer and it's clear that
they still don't think he is. So they must have had a plan to replace Wilson and it had to include drafting a QB in one of the then two
upcoming drafts. Jody Allen cleared them to trade Wilson, so discussions were held, we know that. And although we don't know what was
said exactly, we can infer that replacing Wilson with a long term solution at QB was part of the plan. Two things didn't happen to plan,
one being Geno playing better than expected, and the 2nd being Denvers face plant in the standings giving us the 5th pick overall. I can
surmise that the original plan was to bundle up this years 2 first round picks and maybe a 2nd or later to move into contention for a QB,
but surprisingly, we ended up with the 5th overall.

1. This is a QB driven league, if a team doesn't have one of the top QBs, they are looking for one. All teams outside of
the teams with top QBs are looking to upgrade if they can.

2. DT's and DE's come along every year and most are in rotations, so they only play 50% of the plays unlike QBs.

3. Just like QB's, DL rarely impact their first year and DL often not much in their 2nd. Look at Quinnen Williams, Derrick
Brown, and Jeffery Simmonds for examples. Top QBs have a better chance in their 2nd year.

4. Geno Smith will be 33 this year. If he is retained by the Seahawks, he will have a Cap hit of $31.2 Million. We
don't know this year if his performance will be the first half season Geno or the 2nd half season Geno when he came back to earth.
If he has a bad year, he will probably be let go as the money won't be worth the production, leaving with us scrambling for a QB.

5. If we don't select a QB this year, we will have to pay a kings ransom to move up into QB contention in the future. Probably 3
first round picks or maybe more to get a QB of the future. Or we can end up like the Jets and spend decades trying to find one or like
the Titans with a very good Defense but not have the QB in place to take advantage of the teams talent.

6. This might be the best overall QB class in the last decade with the top 4 having the potential to change a teams fortunes.

7. We are still missing the face of the franchise. The young stud player that every fan base wants and needs to whip up the
enthusiasm and give hope for the future. QBs with great arms and above average athleticism do this.

8. Top QBs can regularly get you wins by their play, other positions don't have that impact.

[RiverDog]

I agree completely, so long as the quarterback is 'their guy' and that we're not drafting one just for the sake of drafting a quarterback. If we feel that we have to trade up to get him, then fine. But I don't want to be pi$$ing away this draft pick like we did when we drafted Rick Mirer. If our guy isn't there and we don't think that there's a true impact player available at #5, then trade down and put some of that draft capital in the bank for next season.

[Stream Hawk]

I agree completely, so long as the quarterback is 'their guy' and that we're not drafting one just for the sake of drafting a quarterback. If we feel that we have to trade up to get him, then fine. But I don't want to be pi$$ing away this draft pick like we did when we drafted Rick Mirer. If our guy isn't there and we don't think that there's a true impact player available at #5, then trade down and put some of that draft capital in the bank for next season.

I was so disappointed we didn’t get Bledsoe that year. It was unfortunate that we won that useless game and New England got him. Never understood Mirer pick as he looked like crap in college. Similar to Levis.

Warming up to the Richardson idea and let him learn behind Geno for a year or two. I really hope we draft dline with the 2nd first round pick if that’s the case.

[c_hawkbob]

Wait, you think Levis looked like crap in college but your warming to Richardson?

[Stream Hawk]

Wait, you think Levis looked like crap in college but your warming to Richardson?

Not exactly. I think I’m warming up to talent potential of Richardson more than Levis. And I’m probably only warming up because of all of the constant press he’s getting especially in Seattle. I’m also warming up to sticking with Carter for the same reason. Levis just doesn’t do it for me, especially at 5.

[jshawaii22]

I agree completely, so long as the quarterback is 'their guy' and that we're not drafting one just for the sake of drafting a quarterback. If we feel that we have to trade up to get him, then fine. But I don't want to be pi$$ing away this draft pick like we did when we drafted Rick Mirer. If our guy isn't there and we don't think that there's a true impact player available at #5, then trade down and put some of that draft capital in the bank for next season.

Agree 100% -- When we get to our pick, unless CJ Stroud is available, and if the top 2 DEnds have been taken (Tree Wilson - Will Anderson) I say trade down with a team looking for that #3 QB. That would be Atlanta, Tenn, Houston, or the Jets ONLY.
Nothing lower then #12. Then we still have good options at DE at #12 and can pick up another 2nd, 5th and a #1 next year for the trade.

I still hope that the QB's go #1, 2, 3. but you just never know. Some writers now are being 'told' Houston won't draft any QB other then Bryce Young and don't want to trade down.

We can look at QB's in Round 2 or later. I don't think Levis or Richardson are worth the #5 or the #20 at this point.

[RiverDog]

Wait, you think Levis looked like crap in college but your warming to Richardson?

Not exactly. I think I’m warming up to talent potential of Richardson more than Levis. And I’m probably only warming up because of all of the constant press he’s getting especially in Seattle. I’m also warming up to sticking with Carter for the same reason. Levis just doesn’t do it for me, especially at 5.

I'm not sold on Richardson, but he's not likely to be there for us unless we trade up with the Cards, something that rarely happens within a division. I'm worried about his accuracy. And as far as Levis goes, it looks like he can be had at #5 as his stock has been dropping. I've seen mocks with him going to us at #20. If JS is good with him, I am, too.

I want nothing to do with Carter, at least not at #5, and although I'd consider him at #20, he's not dropping out of the top 10.

[Oly]

I'm not sold on Richardson, but he's not likely to be there for us unless we trade up with the Cards, something that rarely happens within a division. I'm worried about his accuracy. And as far as Levis goes, it looks like he can be had at #5 as his stock has been dropping. I've seen mocks with him going to us at #20. If JS is good with him, I am, too.

I want nothing to do with Carter, at least not at #5, and although I'd consider him at #20, he's not dropping out of the top 10.

Earlier I mentioned seeing things the same way. That said, I might be softening my anti-AR stance. Both of us are concerned because accuracy problems in college usually mean accuracy problems in the pros. But I wonder if Richardson's can be fixed just because he's so raw. His footwork and mechanics leave a lot of room to be improved, so there are more reasonable reasons to think that coaching will improve his accuracy. I'd be more concerned with a more polished prospect whose bad habits have calcified. Given that the Hawks could give Richardson a redshirt season to coach him up, I wonder if there are reasons to think he could be an exception to the accuracy rule, like Allen.

Still not hoping for Richardson, just starting to think I wouldn't hate the pick.

[RiverDog]

I'm not sold on Richardson, but he's not likely to be there for us unless we trade up with the Cards, something that rarely happens within a division. I'm worried about his accuracy. And as far as Levis goes, it looks like he can be had at #5 as his stock has been dropping. I've seen mocks with him going to us at #20. If JS is good with him, I am, too.

I want nothing to do with Carter, at least not at #5, and although I'd consider him at #20, he's not dropping out of the top 10.

Earlier I mentioned seeing things the same way. That said, I might be softening my anti-AR stance. Both of us are concerned because accuracy problems in college usually mean accuracy problems in the pros. But I wonder if Richardson's can be fixed just because he's so raw. His footwork and mechanics leave a lot of room to be improved, so there are more reasonable reasons to think that coaching will improve his accuracy. I'd be more concerned with a more polished prospect whose bad habits have calcified. Given that the Hawks could give Richardson a redshirt season to coach him up, I wonder if there are reasons to think he could be an exception to the accuracy rule, like Allen.

Still not hoping for Richardson, just starting to think I wouldn't hate the pick.

Yes, a lot of people have compared Richardson to Josh Allen with regards to the accuracy issues, and Allen is an example of a QB that was actually able to improve his accuracy going to the next level. But is Allen the standard we should be looking at or is he an exception to the rule?

There's another comparison to a physical specimen of a QB coming out of college with footwork and mechanics issues that they said could be fixed but never could: Tim Tebow. So which one applies?

[Hawktawk]

Tebows last TC he was well over 60% completion . He got better . What Tebow was was a winner in college , big time and a wild card winning qb his only year and beating rothlesburger to do it .
Richardson has never been a winner . And it’s not just his lazy footwork causing throws to the tuba player . HE CAN NOT READ THE FIELD.
I’m more comfortable with Levis at this point although I’m not comfortable with him either . His bad throws are bad . His decision making is suspect too. Fundamentals can be taught . Judgement in that blink of an eye maybe maybe not . I keep hearing next Mike Vick for Richardson, Josh Allen for Levis. Just a damn minute . And fine . Geno had a bad second half with rookie tackles and no interior line , no defense at all to gain extra possessions . Genos 13 turnovers were 5 less than Allen and as Geno was being warmly embraced by teammates after the WC loss Allen was being sworn at by Stefan Diggs who left the stadium 5 minutes after the game . How is Buffalo different than Seattle a few years back one and done and we had the guy that you win it with then too .
I love Allen . Where’s the beef ? Never been past the wild card on a strong team with a young coach .

I could ruminate about Bledsoe Mirer . Mirer was destroyed by the hits in Seattle , started ducking and throwing it up . He looked ok as a rookie . Some guys can’t take NFL punishment . Can any of these 4? Bledsoe won exactly what in 15 years on 3 franchises , lost a super bowl to mike Holmgren with Parcells for a coach .

One more thing . If we nail the front 7 and get another dynamic back we can win it all now and win it with Geno too. Sure plan for the future at the position Maybe signing Lock did that in their eyes . We will have to see on draft day . Give me Hooker over Levis or Richardson if you take a qb . Cheaper and better .

[RiverDog]

Tebows last TC he was well over 60% completion . He got better . What Tebow was was a winner in college , big time and a wild card winning qb his only year and beating rothlesburger to do it .

So now, Tebow improved his accuracy because he had a 60% completion percentage in his last training camp?

When are you going to face facts, that Tim Tebow was a horrible passer with a career completion percentage of 47.9%, 40.4% in his two playoff games? He was a flaming bust that cost the HC that traded up for him his job.

For all your truly magnificent insight on Geno's success, it's canceled out by your appraisal of Tim Tebow.