Next up: the draft

[Hawktawk]

Despite what Pete and John say, I do not rule out Jalen Carter:

1: From a talent perspective, Carter continues to be in the top 5 in everyone's rankings, some of the best (that I respect) continue to rank him as the #1
talent in the draft and despite the recent issues has not slid down the board.
2: We are not in a position to evaluate Carter's character, what we know is what we read on the internet. It does not match the indepth dive that teams do.
There are multiple issues to consider and evaluate. No doubt, leaving the accident scene was a really bad decision, a panic move. But he's not the first
young person to made a bad decision and turn out highly successful or football player. Many of these young men come from backgrounds that do not put
them in a position to make good decisions.
3: Having "good character" doesn't mean are they 100% clean, but rather is it acceptable and can we manage it?
4: Pete has a history of drafting some with "character' issues. In the case of Frank Clark, JS said: “Our organization has an in-depth understanding
of Frank’s situation and background,” Schneider remarked. “We have done a ton of research on this young man. There hasn’t been one player in this draft
that we spent more time analyzing and scrutinizing than Frank.” And, I think that worked out OK.

Not saying they will take him, but if they're comfortable, I'm comfortable. And I do believe he's drafted inside the top 10.

Great point about Clark . It’s fair to say he was one of the best linemen drafted in the currrent era and he was accused of beating a woman in a drunken rage . I think most would see that as every bit as serious a charge as Carter . When I heard the specifics of Clark’s situation , she initiated the confrontation and at some point started biting his nose . I don’t hit women . I’ve been hit by women and I don’t retaliate . If someone latched onto my nose I’m laying them out . So clark was off the hook with me . I don’t blame Carter at all for a wasted 26 year old university employee in a university vehicle killing herself and another and injuring 2 others . Sick and tired of hearing it . I worry a lot more about his motivation and conditioning . I don’t think he’s a bad kid . Not off my board .

[NorthHawk]

Wasn't talking about the off field stuff, but that is a concern.
The difference between Clark and Carter is Clark was all in on Football. He was one of the leaders on that Michigan Defense and often lead the drills. Bruce Irvin was much the same.
What is being said about Carter? Is he considered a leader? Is he all in on Football? What we can see, the answer is no, he's not. He can't even get himself into proper shape, let alone lead a team.
I get the feeling he's one of those people who've never had to really work hard to succeed. He's extremely talented and that's got him as far as it has today, but he never had to work for it. Now he's going to have to work harder than he ever has and who knows if he has it in him to do that? That's a huge gamble to take at a position that rotates in and out and at the NFL level he's going against grown men who are often as talented as him but with far more experience and much better technique.
He'll no longer be the biggest and quickest just by showing up.
The question is can he change, and that's far too big of a gamble at #5 when there are a number of players expected to go later that are almost as good and are all in.

[RiverDog]

Despite what Pete and John say, I do not rule out Jalen Carter:

1: From a talent perspective, Carter continues to be in the top 5 in everyone's rankings, some of the best (that I respect) continue to rank him as the #1
talent in the draft and despite the recent issues has not slid down the board.
2: We are not in a position to evaluate Carter's character, what we know is what we read on the internet. It does not match the indepth dive that teams do.
There are multiple issues to consider and evaluate. No doubt, leaving the accident scene was a really bad decision, a panic move. But he's not the first
young person to made a bad decision and turn out highly successful or football player. Many of these young men come from backgrounds that do not put
them in a position to make good decisions.
3: Having "good character" doesn't mean are they 100% clean, but rather is it acceptable and can we manage it?
4: Pete has a history of drafting some with "character' issues. In the case of Frank Clark, JS said: “Our organization has an in-depth understanding
of Frank’s situation and background,” Schneider remarked. “We have done a ton of research on this young man. There hasn’t been one player in this draft
that we spent more time analyzing and scrutinizing than Frank.” And, I think that worked out OK.

Not saying they will take him, but if they're comfortable, I'm comfortable. And I do believe he's drafted inside the top 10.

I wouldn't use Frank Clark as an indicator that Pete and John might be willing to overlook the character concerns with Carter. 2 years after they drafted Clark, they drafted Malik McDowell, another player with known character issues, that they later came to deeply regret. It's been said that they might have learned a lesson from the McDowell fiasco and adapted more of a "character matters" attitude since then.

And as North Hawk said, if Carter's behavior in the street racing incident were his only character issue, one might be able to rationalize it as you have. But it's supplemented by the work ethic and lack of conditioning issues. Not rising to the occasion in the biggest games of his college career and not being motivated enough to get in shape for NFL scouts are big concerns.

Carter could be on our board if he were to make it to #20, but I don't think he gets past the Eagles at #10.

[Hawktawk]

Despite what Pete and John say, I do not rule out Jalen Carter:

1: From a talent perspective, Carter continues to be in the top 5 in everyone's rankings, some of the best (that I respect) continue to rank him as the #1
talent in the draft and despite the recent issues has not slid down the board.
2: We are not in a position to evaluate Carter's character, what we know is what we read on the internet. It does not match the indepth dive that teams do.
There are multiple issues to consider and evaluate. No doubt, leaving the accident scene was a really bad decision, a panic move. But he's not the first
young person to made a bad decision and turn out highly successful or football player. Many of these young men come from backgrounds that do not put
them in a position to make good decisions.
3: Having "good character" doesn't mean are they 100% clean, but rather is it acceptable and can we manage it?
4: Pete has a history of drafting some with "character' issues. In the case of Frank Clark, JS said: “Our organization has an in-depth understanding
of Frank’s situation and background,” Schneider remarked. “We have done a ton of research on this young man. There hasn’t been one player in this draft
that we spent more time analyzing and scrutinizing than Frank.” And, I think that worked out OK.

Not saying they will take him, but if they're comfortable, I'm comfortable. And I do believe he's drafted inside the top 10.

“Rd
I wouldn't use Frank Clark as an indicator that Pete and John might be willing to overlook the character concerns with Carter. 2 years after they drafted Clark, they drafted Malik McDowell, another player with known character issues, that they later came to deeply regret. It's been said that they might have learned a lesson from the McDowell fiasco and adapted more of a "character matters" attitude since then.

And as North Hawk said, if Carter's behavior in the street racing incident were his only character issue, one might be able to rationalize it as you have. But it's supplemented by the work ethic and lack of conditioning issues. Not rising to the occasion in the biggest games of his college career and not being motivated enough to get in shape for NFL scouts are big concerns.

Carter could be on our board if he were to make it to #20, but I don't think he gets past the Eagles at #10.[/quote]

I wasn’t aware McDowell had pre draft red flags . He was lost to Seattle in an ATV accident . That’s not a character flaw unless being young and having fun and crashing is a character flaw . Since his brain got smashed he’s definitely had issues with the law which many victims of severe head trauma do . But I don’t see where this was character related . It was Seahawks luck . Ask Penny, Blair , Adams , Carson . We are the unluckiest team in the league .

[c_hawkbob]

Carter will not, under any circumstances, make it out of the top ten.

[obiken]

Carter will not, under any circumstances, make it out of the top ten.

Thats a fact Jack!

[RiverDog]

Carter will not, under any circumstances, make it out of the top ten.

I agree, but why do you have him in your mock at #20?

[RiverDog]

I wasn’t aware McDowell had pre draft red flags . He was lost to Seattle in an ATV accident . That’s not a character flaw unless being young and having fun and crashing is a character flaw . Since his brain got smashed he’s definitely had issues with the law which many victims of severe head trauma do . But I don’t see where this was character related . It was Seahawks luck . Ask Penny, Blair , Adams , Carson . We are the unluckiest team in the league .

I'll have to admit that after looking at his incidents, they all appear to have happened after he was drafted, so my bad. It sure appeared that way when I first read about John Schneider's comments (read the comments below and you'll see how I made that assumption).

While Schneider hasn't delved specifically into the ill-fated McDowell pick and didn't discuss it on Tuesday, it's evident the Seahawks have placed a greater emphasis on the character element of player evaluation since then. They haven't taken chances on prospects with red flags, instead stockpiling mature rookies and preferencing former team captains, including second-round pick Boye Mafe, third-round pick Abraham Lucas, and fourth-round pick Coby Bryant in last year's decorated class.

Based on their recent track record following the McDowell fiasco, such a red flag may take him (Jalen Carter) out of consideration, depending how things play out in coming weeks with his legal situation.

https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/news/se ... ng-combine

But my point remains the same as far as it pertains to using Frank Clark as an example of the Hawks rationalizing the character issues. They appear to have changed their philosophy since then.

[c_hawkbob]

Carter will not, under any circumstances, make it out of the top ten.

I agree, but why do you have him in your mock at #20?

Actually he's a trade back possibility. As you know we can't put trades in our mocks, but we can put as many names as we think are possibilities. Besides, of the six names in the first round only the two in bold matter as to where they are.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Aside from character and worth ethic, Carter doesn’t fit the nose tackle role. I don’t think you draft a guy like him at #5 to be a 3-4 DE. I think they wouldn’t draft him based on that alone. The other stuff just makes it an even easier decision.

[c_hawkbob]

STRENGTHS
Has elite quickness and agility considering his size. Has an impressive first step and always leaves the blocker off guard
Carter has impressive lateral speed able to shadow backs in the run game
Awesome change of direction skills - a super quick twitch athlete who consistently dominates slower-footed lineman
Has the strong core and powerful hands to shed blockers and shows excellent instincts with the ability to quickly locate the ball.
Can make the impressive chest-to-chest bear hug tackle in the hole due to his ability to wreak havoc in the backfield.
Carter is easily strong enough in the lower body to hold up at the point of attack, and he displays a good feel as a grappler in the phone booth, consistently getting blockers off-balance before powering them to the ground
Has the skills to play all positions along the line at Georgia he was used as a 1-tech, 2i, 3-tech, and 5-tech
Immense strength gives ends a chance to twist inside and linebackers free lane to the passer on blitzes.
He’s a good lateral mover who shows surprising speed for a 300-pounder when chasing the ball carrier in pursuit.
An instinctive natural pass rusher who possesses an array of moves to dominate - needs to be double-teamed
Not just an interior pass rusher - became a dominant run defender in 2022

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Jal ... DL-Georgia

Strengths
Interior player with good pass-rush ability (very rare trait);
Incredible raw athlete, excellent size-speed-strength combination;
Very high motor, can chase runners sideline-to-sideline;
Good versatility, can play 0, 1, 3 and 5-techniques;
Excellent at occupying and obstructing rush lanes;
Able to wriggle free from blocks to impact ballcarriers;
Explosive first step;
High functional strength, enough to get blockers to backpedal;
Has the ability to slip through blockers with surprising agility;
Three-sport athlete entering college (led to comparisons to Hall-of-Famer, Warren Sapp).

https://lastwordonsports.com/nfl/2023/0 ... ng-report/

Carter has been called the best defensive player on that historic 2021 Georgia defense. His motor runs hot on both run and passing plays. Carter does not lack effort. He is seen chasing the ball to the far sideline and upfield as a backside defender. In the run game, despite not having the frame of a traditional nose tackle, Carter holds up well at the point of attack reduced inside. He plays the 0,1, 3, and 5-techniques. I love his body control to handle double teams and corkscrew/twist through blocks to impact the ball carrier. I noticed improvement with his lower body to anchor and hold his ground to clog running lanes. His power can be overwhelming for opponents. He can stonewall zone-reach blocks to sit and occupy that lane. Carter cuts off those block attempts and leverages gaps well for a young player. He shuts the door/designed gap in the face of running backs. He’s a difficult task to move consistently in the run game.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/sr-prospect ... 855e0ea0f/

I have read a lot of scouting reports on Carter and heard local and national sports radio jocks go on and on about him and have never heard or read anyone say his skills are limited to "a 3-4 DE".

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I didn’t specifically say he was only limited to 3-4 DE. My assertion is he isn’t a 3-4 NT so if he were drafted by the Seahawks he’d be a DE in a 3-4. If we ran a 4-3, I’d be more on board with the pick. The scouts in your articles think he can play that NT role, that’s fine. I don’t think he’s cut out to anchor the 3-4 against the run. It’s not what I would do if I were the Seahawks.

From his NFL.com prospect profile:

Could use a little more mass against NFL guards.
Loses momentum when swapping power with true heavyweights.
Neutralized by the size/strength of Florida’s O’Cyrus Torrence in 2022.
Tank ran out of gas in College Football Playoff semifinal against Ohio State.

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jalen-car ... 42e762bc39

That doesn’t sound like a guy you want to use for a 3-4 NT (0-tech). His comparison is Jeffery Simmons. He needs to be in a 4-3.

[RiverDog]

Carter will not, under any circumstances, make it out of the top ten.

I agree, but why do you have him in your mock at #20?

Actually he's a trade back possibility. As you know we can't put trades in our mocks, but we can put as many names as we think are possibilities. Besides, of the six names in the first round only the two in bold matter as to where they are.

Ahh, IC. That makes sense.

[NorthHawk]

Chicago and Philadelphia at #9 and #10 are the biggest chance to stop his fall if he starts to slide. If he gets past them, he may end up in the 20's.
It really depends on the other teams decision matrices and how much risk they want to take with a 1st round pick as well as other players/needs of teams.

[c_hawkbob]

There are 6 teams, from 5 through 10, that need him. One of those six will pull the trigger.

[NorthHawk]

There are 6 teams, from 5 through 10, that need him. One of those six will pull the trigger.

Yah. Philadelphia or Chicago. They have the draft capital or solid enough teams to absorb a bad pick should he turn out to be a bust. It's been reported the Raiders have taken him off their board and that's understandable considering their history with players and car accidents and the bad press that would probably result. The Lions are building something and they don't need a player who's not all in when they could get a solid starter. Atlanta might, but they don't have enough draft picks to gamble on a high risk/high reward player. The problem with Carter is he has an extremely high ceiling and extremely low floor. Teams don't always take that risk with limited selections.
But like you said, all it takes is one team to think he's the best value to select him and assume that risk.

[RiverDog]

There are 6 teams, from 5 through 10, that need him. One of those six will pull the trigger.

Yah. Philadelphia or Chicago. They have the draft capital or solid enough teams to absorb a bad pick should he turn out to be a bust. It's been reported the Raiders have taken him off their board and that's understandable considering their history with players and car accidents and the bad press that would probably result. The Lions are building something and they don't need a player who's not all in when they could get a solid starter. Atlanta might, but they don't have enough draft picks to gamble on a high risk/high reward player. The problem with Carter is he has an extremely high ceiling and extremely low floor. Teams don't always take that risk with limited selections.
But like you said, all it takes is one team to think he's the best value to select him and assume that risk.

That's why I don't think Carter will slide past the Eagles at #10. They're riding high after last season's improbable run to the SB, so they can afford the PR hit if Carter ends up being a bust. With as much publicity as he's received over the past few months, all eyes will be on him. Plus, like us, they have two first round picks, so they can look at their #10 as a bonus, that they're playing with house money.

[TriCitySam]

I know from a value perspective they got zip from McDowell, but we have zero idea about how good he might have been. No way to predict an accident like that.

Interesting stat I saw, the last QB's to go 1&2:

Trevor Lawrence/Zach Wilson
Goff/Wentz
Winston/Mariota
Andrew Luck/Griffin III
Tim Couch/McNabb
Peyton /Leaf

As franchise QB's goes, that's about a 67% miss. Which is how it goes in the draft, so if it were me, I'd take the highest rated guy on my board.

[RiverDog]

Apparently, we're not the only ones that think Jalen Carter won't drop out of the top 10:

Drew Rosenhaus made headlines when he stated his client, Jalen Carter, would only workout for top 10 teams in the 2023 NFL Draft, which includes the Seattle Seahawks.

Whether or not it plays out how Carter and Rosenhaus want remains to be seen, but they feel confident that the defensive tackle will be taken inside the first 10 picks.

So, while Carter's college tape has him as one of the best prospects in the draft, his off-field issues coupled with his pro day workout and now the inability to want to work out for teams outside the top 10 is rather interesting.

The other question is if, for some reason, Carter isn't taken with one of the first 10 picks (Seattle currently has pick five), then who will take him, having yet to see him workout privately? It will make for interesting viewing to see precisely where he lands.

https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/news/se ... -nfl-draft

Is Carter's limiting his private workouts to the top 10 teams just a matter of practicality as JS suggests in the article, or will some teams interpret it as arrogance? It can be viewed both ways.

[NorthHawk]

I heard a former GM who was talking about visits and said most of the organizations he worked for used them for players they weren’t sure about, not teams who had done their homework and decided on the players value within their team. So limiting teams in the top 10 would seem to be a mistake as teams outside the top 10 might want to move up. If they can’t interview him and aren’t comfortable with drafting him then he might be off their board unless he fell but wouldn’t trade up for him.

[RiverDog]

I heard a former GM who was talking about visits and said most of the organizations he worked for used them for players they weren’t sure about, not teams who had done their homework and decided on the players value within their team. So limiting teams in the top 10 would seem to be a mistake as teams outside the top 10 might want to move up. If they can’t interview him and aren’t comfortable with drafting him then he might be off their board unless he fell but wouldn’t trade up for him.

s

Good point about teams looking to move up. There's a lot of teams out there, from 1-32, that are looking for the next JJ Watt. Plus, considering how poorly his pro day went, you'd think that he'd be chomping at the bit to reverse that perception.

IMO he's making a mistake by limiting his private workouts to 10 teams based on their current draft position.

[Hawktawk]

I think Carter has weathered the storm of bad pub and will not drop far at all if at all .

The whole he’s responsible for 2 deaths has subsided . Personally it p@Sses me off to hear it. Wasn’t his fault . It was the deceased wasted driver and her employer U of G.
Most teams get that I think .

Conditioning is the thing but he’s never seen a strength and conditioning regimen like the NFL. Draft him , sign him to a deal with huge incentives to be in shape , huge fines for missing weight .

He’s gonna go one of 2 ways . Take the bull by the horns or go south . This isn’t a middle of the road talent . What percentage of either happening ?I don’t know .

I know more than not still have him as the #1 TALENT on the board . I keep hearing 3 sacks as a senior . When you’re drawing triple teams everyone else on your back to back champions are getting the sacks .

I don’t know he slides at all . I wouldn’t be shocked if Seattle took him and wouldn’t mind either . The odds are greater he will be a star than any of these 4 can’t miss quarterback prospects historically . And we need interior defensive linemen to win now. If the guy is the next Warren Sapp we’re set for a decade . I don’t want to watch him dominate like Aaron Donald. I wouldn’t be shocked if Zona grabs him .
Resigning lock with several million guaranteed tells me they don’t expect to get one of the top 4 anyway . Maybe Hooker but I don’t think he will be around long either .
I always love draft day but I’ll be glued to this one . More than last year . Ten pin tap room for the first round . It’s a 14 year tradition

[NorthHawk]

So why, with all of the negative talk about him outside of the car crash hasn't any of his coaches defended him? Why haven't we heard about how good of a leader he is and how driven to win that all really great players have? How many teammates have come forward and said he's the best teammate and player game in and game out?
These things would assuage the concerns to some extent, but we haven't heard much if anything from others defending him about his play. On the contrary what we here is he practiced when he wanted to and showed up late to meetings and did what he wanted instead of what the coaches wanted him to do. Those are pretty big issues and if it were my teammate and wasn't true, I would be saying something. It's not like there aren't a lot of players on that Georgia team who aren't expected to go in the first 2 or 3 rounds. They have a platform, but nobody has spoken out about him in a positive way including the coaches. All we've heard from the coaches is he wanted to get in better shape but didn't get there.

Does he have the drive to be the best, to push through the drudgery of TC and develop into the best player he can be? Because it's a question that's out there, it breeds doubt about his desire and will probably cause him to fall.
There's no doubt he has the talent, but if given $20Million will he think that affirms his approach or will it motivate him to justify that contract? We know the top 4 QBs are all in and will bust their butts, and Will Anderson is praised by teammates and coaches as already practicing like a Pro, and that goes on with players throughout the draft, but we don't really know about Carter in that manner.

It would be great if one of the top 4 teams took him. I'm pretty sure WE won't. But if some team above us does it will mean one of the top QBs will be there for us at no extra cost. And it's how we should be approaching this draft anyway by taking one of the 4 QBs at the top of this draft.

[Hawktawk]

I understand your position on the top 4 guys and I’m not going to be upset if it happens although my prediction right now is Richardson and Levis will fail as the NFL graveyard is littered with strong armed guys with beautiful bodies . I think Stoud will be excellent as will Young until he gets hurt early and often as he is too small and slight .

But let’s find out . It just seems to me that the signing of Lock made for a crowded room . But Pete showed 11 years ago he will start the best guy no matter the contract . They have said having Geno and Drew doesn’t affect their plans so let’s see. It is the lying season .
As for Carter I haven’t heard negative stuff from coaches and teammates at all. Really it’s been about protecting a university with a booze problem that cost 2 lives and wound up with Stetson Bennett incoherent beating on doors in Florida . I have a lot more problem with U of G and Kirby Smart “ we don’t have a culture problem “ than a 22 year old caught in a horror .

It’s all about the motor . I don’t worry as much about the weight gain with the constant scrutiny and accusations he was under every day . Not off my board . Probably off Seattle’s . Let’s see where he goes.

[c_hawkbob]

I haven't heard from his coaches in his defense but a few of his teammates have:

“One of my favorite guys to be around, ALL-AROUND STUD as a player and as a friend/teammate.” -- Ryland Goede

"Ion ever entertain what y’all say but you don’t know this man. That boy been a real one since day one!!" -- Jackson Meeks

“JC cool, JC fun, fun to hang with, fun to be around,” linebacker Jamon Dumas-Johnson said of Carter. “But when we get on the field, it’s all about business. That’s what I like about him.”

“Jalen heard about that (not being able to afford lunches). I’m the only walk-on in the defensive line room and he goes ‘I’m not gonna let that happen.’ So he used his scholarship money to pay for me to get lunch every single day,” Wallace told Feldman.

[RiverDog]

He’s gonna go one of 2 ways . Take the bull by the horns or go south . This isn’t a middle of the road talent . What percentage of either happening ?I don’t know.

I think that most of us in here, and in the football world in general, are in agreement with this. He's a boom or bust type, which is why I don't want to chance it with our #5 overall. There's too much risk, and we need to make that first pick count.

[NorthHawk]

For a player with obvious immense talent, he isn’t much talked about as a can’t miss player.
Top 10 picks aren’t usually selected with such a boom/bust perception.

[RiverDog]

For a player with obvious immense talent, he isn’t much talked about as a can’t miss player.
Top 10 picks aren’t usually selected with such a boom/bust perception.

Most top 10 picks haven't had the pre-draft publicity that Carter has had, either.

[Hawktawk]

For a player with obvious immense talent, he isn’t much talked about as a can’t miss player.
Top 10 picks aren’t usually selected with such a boom/bust perception.

Who is a “can’t miss” prospect in this draft ? Obviously Carter is more controversial for the racing allegations and being out of shape . But as Paul Moyer pointed out on Brock and Salk how could he not be ready but also how much does the one thing have to do with another ? Carter could emerge from this more mature and focused and whoever drafts him he’s going to nfl style conditioning and certain incentives in his deal .

It’s all boom or bust . You never know .

[RiverDog]

We didn't attend Carter's Pro Day, and although it could be a smoke screen, that we already have our minds made up and didn't want to tip our hand, when you consider everything else that's happened and the statements that JS has said about character guys, I honestly don't think he's on our board, at least not at #5.

But up until the 2022 draft where they pretty much stuck to conventional wisdom and didn't make any reaches, the Hawks draft logic was extremely difficult to figure out, so who knows. That's what makes the draft so entertaining. It's like a murder mystery, a who dunnit.

[c_hawkbob]

We didn't attend Carter's Pro Day, and although it could be a smoke screen, that we already have our minds made up and didn't want to tip our hand, when you consider everything else that's happened and the statements that JS has said about character guys, I honestly don't think he's on our board, at least not at #5.

But up until the 2022 draft where they pretty much stuck to conventional wisdom and didn't make any reaches, the Hawks draft logic was extremely difficult to figure out, so who knows. That's what makes the draft so entertaining. It's like a murder mystery, a who dunnit.

All 32 teams attended his pro day. I believe you meant to say he wasn't on John and Pete's QB tour in Jody's private jet.

[RiverDog]

We didn't attend Carter's Pro Day, and although it could be a smoke screen, that we already have our minds made up and didn't want to tip our hand, when you consider everything else that's happened and the statements that JS has said about character guys, I honestly don't think he's on our board, at least not at #5.

But up until the 2022 draft where they pretty much stuck to conventional wisdom and didn't make any reaches, the Hawks draft logic was extremely difficult to figure out, so who knows. That's what makes the draft so entertaining. It's like a murder mystery, a who dunnit.

All 32 teams attended his pro day. I believe you meant to say he wasn't on John and Pete's QB tour in Jody's private jet.

Actually, I was repeating what I read about the subject in the other forum I frequent and didn't bother to double check it, so my bad.

[Hawktawk]

Seattle will in fact be hosting Jalen (satan) Carter pre draft according to a report.................Break out the Frank Clark speech. Doesn't appear his awful character has scared them off yet.

In other news I read a report that Levis has come across as arrogant and entitled with a weird quirky personality. "I've got a cannon" is for others to say Will

Some suggestions that if someone slides among the top 4 QBs its him. I've read it a couple of places now. I dont believe it but its out there. I dont mind a little arrogance and cockiness anyway, just back it up.

[NorthHawk]

Probably here to see if he's redeemable or not and if he's got himself into shape yet. They're doing their homework in the event he's there at 20 is what I'd expect, but I doubt even then he would be our choice.

[Oly]

As I said upthread about Carter, for nearly the entire year, he was the only player I wanted. I was looking for reasons to look past small questions and doubts because I think he's clearly the most talented player in the draft at a position of need. But I've still soured on him, and it's not about the car crash. It's the conditioning and whether his position is one of need.

More than any other player attribute, conditioning shows a player's work ethic and a strong work ethic is as close to a hard requirement as there is to succeed in the NFL. He had a hard time making it through the championship game and his pro day. If he can't force himself to put in the work for the two events that could make the difference if several million dollars, how can we trust that he's going to put in the work to fight for his spot during training camp? How can we trust that he's going to watch the film he has to watch? I just don't have the faith that he'll make good on his talent in the NFL. I'd take the risk at 20, but only because we will have already picked earlier.

My other question, and this just shows that I don't fully understand how the 3-4 is going to look, is how a traditional DT would fit in the new scheme. NT isn't important enough for a top-10 pick, and even the DEs are more space-eaters than pass rushers compared to 4-3 ends. If they will have one wide DE that is more of a rusher and then use the other big DE like a DT/DE hybrid, then I could see him fitting as a big DE, but I'm starting to wonder if Carter fits this defense and if that position in this defense is worth that kind of investment. I'd think that a rush DE, OLB/EDGE rushers like Anderson, and a dynamic ILB who can shoot gaps are where you want your pass-rushing investments. Can a most astute football mind tell me how Carter would help this defense? Or is the idea that you fit the scheme around your stars and that the Hawks would mix up 4-3 and 3-4 looks to suit their personnel?

[NorthHawk]

Over the years I've found that the DL in the 3-4 are for the most part larger than the DL in the 4-3. The DL being NT, DE, DE in the 3-4.
The speed rushers are the OLBs and the DE's along with the NT are the inside run stoppers and penetraters.
Will Anderson would fit at OLB because he's quick, fast and strong. Carter would fit at DE (assuming he plays to his potential) because he's like a 4-3 DT playing DE. He has the quickness and power to dominate inside which would make him ideal in the 3-4 as well as the 4-3, so that's added value, too should they decide to change schemes.

[TriCitySam]

All 32 teams attended his pro day. I believe you meant to say he wasn't on John and Pete's QB tour in Jody's private jet.

Well, he's coming in for a private workout, so I suppose he may be on Jody's private jet...not a workout, but an in depth interview, presumably to figure out what we've been talking about: character and what's in his heart.

[Hawktawk]

Tear it up Jalen !

[Oly]

Over the years I've found that the DL in the 3-4 are for the most part larger than the DL in the 4-3. The DL being NT, DE, DE in the 3-4.
The speed rushers are the OLBs and the DE's along with the NT are the inside run stoppers and penetraters.
Will Anderson would fit at OLB because he's quick, fast and strong. Carter would fit at DE (assuming he plays to his potential) because he's like a 4-3 DT playing DE. He has the quickness and power to dominate inside which would make him ideal in the 3-4 as well as the 4-3, so that's added value, too should they decide to change schemes.

Yeah, I had Red Bryant in mind when I was talking about the 3-4 DE, so I get that. My issue is that unless you're JJ Watt or someone of a similar size/athletic profile and skill, is the position worth the #5 pick? Also, he usually lines up as a 4-3 DT in the A gap (2-tech? 3-tech? I don't know). I don't know DL play well enough to know if he'd be able to naturally take the same skillset to dominate as the 4-tech/5-tech DE in a 3-4. Is that really as easy a transition as you've suggested?

Agreed about Anderson.

[NorthHawk]

There are some players that fit the measureables of JJ Watt in this draft, but the heart is the difference. That will to be the best is what separates the greats from the rest of the pack.