Next up: the draft

[NorthHawk]

Getting back to the draft it looks like now that we've picked up a penetrating (or disruptive) type of D-Lineman we will be focusing on a big run stuffing NT.
Mone was seriously injured last season and there's some doubt about his career, but we still have Al Woods, however he's about 35 years old now and nearing the end.
I would think that this would put the focus on to drafting a big guy in the middle like Siaki Ika or Mazi Smith. Both these players are huge with Smith being more athletic but 14 lbs lighter at 337 lbs.
I think Smith would be a better fit just because of his athleticism but with Jones having an issue run stopping, maybe Ika would be the better plug in the middle. Another guy to keep an eye on is Keeanu Benton at 315 lbs.

[RiverDog]

My thinking is that now that we've addressed some of the concern in our interior DL, that it opens the door to draft a center, hopefully Schmitz, perhaps as high as our #20 overall.

And I think if there isn't a QB left and if Will Anderson is gone, that trading back would be a great idea if we can find a dance partner.

The Dolphins don't have a first round pick in this draft and they seem to be in the mindset of being a player or two away from being a serious SB contender, they might be desperate to trade into the first round if they see someone they think can have an immediate impact for them.

[NorthHawk]

At 5, there’s a lot of flexibility so who really knows what will happen.
I doubt all 4 of the top QBs will be gone , at least right now, but if they are then Anderson isn’t a bad 2nd choice and maybe if someone wants to trade up and depending on which team, we could score a load of future picks.
That might be a better long term option than one player who might be one of the best players in this draft because of all of the needs on our team.

[govandals]

Here is where I stand as of today:
If Levis, Stroud or Richardson are there at 5, you take them, If it's Young or Anderson, you consider a trade down, and if it's not a good enough deal, you happily take either of them.

[RiverDog]

Here is where I stand as of today:
If Levis, Stroud or Richardson are there at 5, you take them, If it's Young or Anderson, you consider a trade down, and if it's not a good enough deal, you happily take either of them.

I'm with ya on your first 3 names, but I don't want another sub 6' quarterback. I'd love to have Anderson, although I think he goes just ahead of us to the Cards.

[govandals]

I'm with ya on your first 3 names, but I don't want another sub 6' quarterback. I'd love to have Anderson, although I think he goes just ahead of us to the Cards.

I keep trying to talk myself in to Bryce Young, and I think I have, mainly because I think he is the most likely of the Qb's to be there at 5.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Not that Barton was irreplaceable, but he needs to be replaced. With another hole in the roster has me wanting to trade back from 5 almost regardless of who’s on the board.

The needs abound. A trade back could potentially net LB, DT, C and G who can contribute immediately.

[RiverDog]

Not that Barton was irreplaceable, but he needs to be replaced. With another hole in the roster has me wanting to trade back from 5 almost regardless of who’s on the board.

The needs abound. A trade back could potentially net LB, DT, C and G who can contribute immediately.

I don't think we need to be preoccupied drafting a LB. There's a lot of high quality free agent linebackers out there. Germaine Pratt of Cincy is one of them, a solid tackling LB with good pass coverage skills, two attributes in our linebacking corps that's been sorely absent in the past few seasons.

[NorthHawk]

Deion Jones, Devin Bush, or maybe even Lavonte David are 3 players to look at for ILB.
David is older but if healthy he could still be of value and the others are younger and might fit the scheme.

[jshawaii22]

With Indy tossing Ryan to the side, It looks like at least 3 QB and maybe 4 going ahead of us. That #5 looks better all the time.
I predicted a long time ago that AZ trades their #1 to a team that's QB needy and it could be 4 for 4 QB's.

Then we have our pick of DE's to draft. I can't imagine us not taking a DE since we seem to be stocking up on tackles in the FA market.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

If they can shore LB with FAs, I’m on board, but still looking at needing youth infusion. Not worth taking anybody too high, but I won’t be upset if they get a LB a little early if he’s the guy.

[RiverDog]

With Indy tossing Ryan to the side, It looks like at least 3 QB and maybe 4 going ahead of us. That #5 looks better all the time.
I predicted a long time ago that AZ trades their #1 to a team that's QB needy and it could be 4 for 4 QB's.

Then we have our pick of DE's to draft. I can't imagine us not taking a DE since we seem to be stocking up on tackles in the FA market.

It's a good news/bad news situation. I'd really like to see us draft one of those QB's, but it would be a nice consolation prize if we ended up with Anderson or Wilson.

[NorthHawk]

I’m not so sure about Wilson.
He has the size, but he didn’t have the production that I would want from the 5th pick. Maybe it’s a little of the Collier experience influencing my perception.
If the QBs go 1-4 then Anderson will have to be there at 5.

[govandals]

For those of you who want Jalen Carter at #5, check this out. Looks like he just doesn't care anymore

https://twitter.com/billym_91/status/16 ... 2Deb1GAdLg

[TriCitySam]

I’m not so sure about Wilson.
He has the size, but he didn’t have the production that I would want from the 5th pick. Maybe it’s a little of the Collier experience influencing my perception.
If the QBs go 1-4 then Anderson will have to be there at 5.

Yeah, with Dre'Mont signed, Wilson doesn't fit well. And we've all heard JS repeat "character" multiple times in the past 2 weeks, so if that would make Carter an unlikely pick as well. Anderson would be great.....if not, then who knows. They could take a QB if one is there or start the move down the board.

[Stream Hawk]

For those of you who want Jalen Carter at #5, check this out. Looks like he just doesn't care anymore

https://twitter.com/billym_91/status/16 ... 2Deb1GAdLg

Yeah I heard he's 9 lbs heavier. Didn't do much of what he was supposed to do. Hard pass at 5. I would be willing at 20 of course. However, there is a huge problem if he's dropping that far!

[NorthHawk]

That speaks to the character issues that have been reported. Unless that extra 9 lbs is all solid muscle, but it didn't look like it.

[NorthHawk]

It will probably push him far down the boards of teams thus creating a scenario of one of the QBs being there at 5 because AZ needs Defensive help and Anderson is probably the best in the draft.

[mykc14]

Carter a huge no for me. I was on the fence before, after watching him play in the Playoffs and National Championship game and then I was thinking about taking him off my board after the racing incident, but he's basically off my board right now. If he can't get it together for the most important job interview of his life I don't really want anything to do with him.

[Stream Hawk]

Someone else can deal with Carter's issues. I also was underwhelmed by his playoff play. I was into him a few weeks back when I heard someone on the radio showcasing his upside. His pro day performance today killed it for me.

I am warming up to Tyree Wilson at 5. Apparently, his ceiling is higher than Anderson's and he's huge (in a good way).

[RiverDog]

For those of you who want Jalen Carter at #5, check this out. Looks like he just doesn't care anymore

https://twitter.com/billym_91/status/16 ... 2Deb1GAdLg

Yeah I heard he's 9 lbs heavier. Didn't do much of what he was supposed to do. Hard pass at 5. I would be willing at 20 of course. However, there is a huge problem if he's dropping that far!

I hadn't heard that, but North Hawk is right, that it goes to the heart of the man's character and dove tails with all of the negative stuff that's gone on around him over these past few months. I sense an air of entitlement and selfishness. I'm not even sure if I'd take him at #20.

Of course, now that I said that, watch him carve out a HOF career.

[mykc14]

I haven't heard this name mentioned much and for good reason but do you guys think there is anyway that the Hawks would draft Bijan Robinson with their first pick? I'm not an advocate of it but it does sort of fit with their MO and although I can certainly see why they would let Penny walk without drafting a RB early it would make sense that if Robinson is on their radar they wouldn't even try to resign him. He is ranked as a top 5 prospect on everybody's draft board. Because he's not a need, it's not a high value position, and the Hawks have used recent high draft picks on the position I can see why nobody is talking about him and the Hawks. I'm just throwing this out there- what do you guys think?

[NorthHawk]

I haven't heard this name mentioned much and for good reason but do you guys think there is anyway that the Hawks would draft Bijan Robinson with their first pick? I'm not an advocate of it but it does sort of fit with their MO and although I can certainly see why they would let Penny walk without drafting a RB early it would make sense that if Robinson is on their radar they wouldn't even try to resign him. He is ranked as a top 5 prospect on everybody's draft board. Because he's not a need, it's not a high value position, and the Hawks have used recent high draft picks on the position I can see why nobody is talking about him and the Hawks. I'm just throwing this out there- what do you guys think?

He might be the best player in this draft, but there are too many very good RBs for him to go at 5, but I doubt he lasts until 20.
I really like Zach Charbonnet from UCLA. He’s bigger than Walker and was a good receiver out of the backfield for Chip Kelly and would be an added component to our Offense. Kind of like how Shanahan uses Deebo in SF.

[mykc14]

He might be the best player in this draft, but there are too many very good RBs for him to go at 5, but I doubt he lasts until 20.
I really like Zach Charbonnet from UCLA. He’s bigger than Walker and was a good receiver out of the backfield for Chip Kelly and would be an added component to our Offense. Kind of like how Shanahan uses Deebo in SF.

Yeah, I don't think he goes at 5. If we draft him I imagine it would be after trading down in the 9-15 pick area. We definitely need a RB and Charbonnet looks like a good prospect. Personally I would like more of a pass catching speedster like Gibbs if we do go RB fairly early and it's not Robinson.

[Aseahawkfan]

For those of you who want Jalen Carter at #5, check this out. Looks like he just doesn't care anymore

https://twitter.com/billym_91/status/16 ... 2Deb1GAdLg

A guy whose work ethic has been questioned not caring anymore is exactly the type of player he has been sold as. A guy with elite genetics who hasn't produced because he doesn't work to develop his abilities.

Not worth the number 5 pick at all.

[RiverDog]

I haven't heard this name mentioned much and for good reason but do you guys think there is anyway that the Hawks would draft Bijan Robinson with their first pick? I'm not an advocate of it but it does sort of fit with their MO and although I can certainly see why they would let Penny walk without drafting a RB early it would make sense that if Robinson is on their radar they wouldn't even try to resign him. He is ranked as a top 5 prospect on everybody's draft board. Because he's not a need, it's not a high value position, and the Hawks have used recent high draft picks on the position I can see why nobody is talking about him and the Hawks. I'm just throwing this out there- what do you guys think?

I've actually heard his name mentioned quite often, especially in the other forum that I frequent.

No way do I want ANY running back with a top 10 pick. Not only is running back not a high value position, ie they aren't on the field for all 3 downs and it's a quarterback's league, it is a position that is very subject to injury, a fact that we're all too painfully aware of. In addition, there's no sense taking a running back that early as no other team is going to, either. Even if he was an Adrian Peterson-Derrick Henry generational talent, of which he isn't, he could be had at #20.

I suspect that he may be an option with one of our two 2nd round picks, and although I wouldn't like it, I could be forced to swallow it. But I'd much rather see us focus on fixing the interior offensive line and our defense.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Carter's pro day just pushes him completely off our board for me. I'm enamored with trading down. In that scenario, you could possibly score a guy like Bijan Robinson in the 10-15 range assuming the trade partner is there and still get Schmitz and Ika.

If QB they have pegged or Will Anderson falls to them at #5, I won't have any heartburn if they go that route.

[TriCitySam]

For those of you who want Jalen Carter at #5, check this out. Looks like he just doesn't care anymore

Yeah, not too impressive. Said he had stomach cramps, not sure why, but with weight it could be poor conditioning. Obviously, we don't know what the Hawks know about his issues, but on the surface: pass at #5 - and with Reed/Jones signed, would suggest maybe their look elsewhere.

[mykc14]

No way do I want ANY running back with a top 10 pick. Not only is running back not a high value position, ie they aren't on the field for all 3 downs and it's a quarterback's league, it is a position that is very subject to injury, a fact that we're all too painfully aware of. In addition, there's no sense taking a running back that early as no other team is going to, either. Even if he was an Adrian Peterson-Derrick Henry generational talent, of which he isn't, he could be had at #20.

I suspect that he may be an option with one of our two 2nd round picks, and although I wouldn't like it, I could be forced to swallow it. But I'd much rather see us focus on fixing the interior offensive line and our defense.

I would be quit surprised if he lasted until round 2 and I am going to project him in the top 20, but I obviously could be wrong. I agree recently (19-22 drafts) RB's haven't been selected until the 20's, but before that it was rare to not have a RB drafted in the top 10. At the same time I agree I wouldn't be excited about picking him in the first or second round and would rather us look later on for RB help.

[RiverDog]

One little tidbit about Jalen Carter's 9 pound weight gain. That was 9 pounds that he gained was between the official weigh in at the combine and Georgia's pro day. The combine started on Feb. 26th and ran until March 6th. Georgia's pro day was March 15th. So that's only a matter of 2-3 weeks that Carter put on the 9 pounds at a time when he should be highly motivated to get in as best shape as he can, especially after the amount of grief he's gone through with his legal issue that might have compromised his draft slotting. He must have been really slugging down the pizzas to put on that much weigh in that short of a time span.

[NorthHawk]

If we’re talking RBs, a sleeper might be Roschon Johnson, teammate of Robinson.
He’s one of those players who might have a good career because he wasn’t beat up in college but has very good talent, like the teammate of Barry Sanders, Thurman Thomas although Sanders didn’t start until Thomas graduated but both were great RBs.

[Hawktawk]

I weigh 250 lbs after 5 weeks of dieting . But I can easily gain 5 pounds in a day or 2 , 10 in less than a week .

What’s this guy ? 100 lbs heavier then me? He might not have taken his #2 yet . Or maybe he did a bunch of lifting and gained the weight . I don’t care about the weight of a tank .

I care about him not doing well at pro day but I guess he says he was sick . I’ll point out he’s got a cloud over his head with his legal issues . I know when I’m depressed all I want to do is eat and sleep .

Maybe he’s just an overblown bum too.
I’d still take him at 20. Too big a potential upside .

[obiken]

One little tidbit about Jalen Carter's 9 pound weight gain. That was 9 pounds that he gained was between the official weigh in at the combine and Georgia's pro day. The combine started on Feb. 26th and ran until March 6th. Georgia's pro day was March 15th. So that's only a matter of 2-3 weeks that Carter put on the 9 pounds at a time when he should be highly motivated to get in as best shape as he can, especially after the amount of grief he's gone through with his legal issue that might have compromised his draft slotting. He must have been really slugging down the pizzas to put on that much weigh in that short of a time span.

Oh no not another Andre Hines! I dont know if you remember him River, but he ate himself out of a job!

[c_hawkbob]

I don't know if Carter was sick or has been in a funk about his legal situation or what but forgetting how to run one of the few drills he ran, complaining about stomach cramps and blowing off the major part of Pro Day sure ain't a good look. He's definitely cost himself some money today.

It's not irreparable, there's still plenty of time before the draft to 'get well' and hold another workout and make some sort of believable explanation, and there is still all that game tape that earned him that top 5 consideration in the first place, but he's fallen a ways down my board.

[NorthHawk]

If you watch some of his games, he disappears. He has great talent but isn't consistent and has often been seen on the sidelines just like on his pro day gasping for air.
It's like he has never been pushed and doesn't know how to prepare for it or has some medical condition.
Some team will think he is good value in the draft. It might be at 6 or it might be out of the 1st round, but he has one more chance to make an impression and if he doesn't do well, who knows how he will be perceived.

[c_hawkbob]

You've said that a lot North and I'm sorry but I can't corroborate. I've watched a lot of his games and even the ones wherein he's not getting home on a lot of sack or TFL's he's still fighting double and triple teams all game. It may not be splashy but it ain't nothing. Opposing defenses have plan for him every week, and even when they claim a measure of success it comes at a cost to the rest of their defense.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

He reminds me a lot of Chris Jones out of Mississippi State. Their college statistics, role, and competition are comparable. Jones was also knocked looking winded and taking plays off. Chiefs drafted him 6th in the 2nd round, and he's worked out pretty well for them. In a re-draft of 2016, should the Chiefs or another team have taken him in the first? In the top 5?

I don't rate him as our #5 pick. I did see where he pled no contest to the charges and received probation, a fine, and community service for his involvement. He didn't leave scene until told he could and came back when requested to answer additional questions. His tendency for excessive speeding and his apparent lack of conditioning would push him later in for me, perhaps in the second like Jones.

[RiverDog]

You've said that a lot North and I'm sorry but I can't corroborate. I've watched a lot of his games and even the ones wherein he's not getting home on a lot of sack or TFL's he's still fighting double and triple teams all game. It may not be splashy but it ain't nothing. Opposing defenses have plan for him every week, and even when they claim a measure of success it comes at a cost to the rest of their defense.

I'm not doubting your observation as you've apparently seen him play more than I have, but in the two games where I saw him play, vs. Ohio State in the semi finals when the Buckeyes rang up the Bulldog D for 41 point and in their blowout win vs. TCU, he certainly didn't have that kind of impact on opposing offenses. What I saw was him being rotated out a lot, even on critical 3rd downs, failing to pursue plays on the opposite side and downfield from him, and seemed to be out of breath a lot. He barely shows up in the two box scores, registering 2 tackles vs. TCU and 1 vs. Ohio State with no sacks or TOL's in either game.

By that point in time, ie Jan. 1st and Jan. 10th, we knew that we were going to get a top 5 pick and that he was one of the top candidates for what turned out to be a #5 overall so I was intentionally watching him. It was also well before his racing incident which would nullify any bias I might have acquired about him since.

I posted my impressions on this board as well as Brand X, asked if it was just me that harbored that opinion, and a number of posters of whom I have a great deal of respect for their judgement, said emphatically that it wasn't just me and basically validated my opinion.

Now, he has a very poor showing at his pro day and weighs in 9 pounds heavier than he did just a couple weeks earlier, which again would tend to support my opinion of him.

So in all sincerity, is my judgement about him that off? What is it about Carter that I've missed or that I don't understand?

[c_hawkbob]

If you read my post prior to the one you quoted I think you'll see I've hit on both sides of center, I'm not going to type volumes to say basically more of the same.

[RiverDog]

He reminds me a lot of Chris Jones out of Mississippi State. Their college statistics, role, and competition are comparable. Jones was also knocked looking winded and taking plays off. Chiefs drafted him 6th in the 2nd round, and he's worked out pretty well for them. In a re-draft of 2016, should the Chiefs or another team have taken him in the first? In the top 5?

I don't rate him as our #5 pick. I did see where he pled no contest to the charges and received probation, a fine, and community service for his involvement. He didn't leave scene until told he could and came back when requested to answer additional questions. His tendency for excessive speeding and his apparent lack of conditioning would push him later in for me, perhaps in the second like Jones.

Where did you see that he was told that he could leave the scene of the accident? Who told him? All I've seen is a statement by Carter's attorney, hardly a credible source, that someone told him he could leave without specifying who. It said that reports indicated that he left before emergency personnel arrived. Do the police count as 'emergency personnel'? Was it a cop that told him he could leave? Has anyone seen why it was that he why he wanted to leave so quickly?

I'm not arguing against anyone's account, but it sounds unusual that someone in authority, knowing that he was a witness, would excuse him within what had to be 10 or 15 minutes before emergency personnel were able to respond.