Next up: the draft

[Aseahawkfan]

I must say I'm a bit surprised. Y'all are acting like you really don't know the difference between a 4-3 DT vs a true 3-4 Nose Tackle. The most important element of a well functioning 3-4 is a NT that demands a double team on every play, whether it's a run or a pass.

Do you draft a NT with a top 5 pick? If he dropped to 20 or even 15, then sure. A top 5 pick NT? I don't know.

[c_hawkbob]

I must say I'm a bit surprised. Y'all are acting like you really don't know the difference between a 4-3 DT vs a true 3-4 Nose Tackle. The most important element of a well functioning 3-4 is a NT that demands a double team on every play, whether it's a run or a pass.

Do you draft a NT with a top 5 pick? If he dropped to 20 or even 15, then sure. A top 5 pick NT? I don't know.

That's actually a very good question. I say if your defense is your weakness (especially your run defense), and you're a team serious about making a 3-4 work, the answer is yes.

[Hawktawk]

I don’t know if Carter is who Bob says he is or Asea or someone in the middle . What I don’t do is fault him for this wasted recruiter crashing and dying . As a few of us have pointed out ad nauseum he was driving a vehicle with over 700 horsepower capable of 0-60 in 3 seconds and a quarter mile of 12 flat at 125 mph. She was in a tank 6 k lbs expedition pool vehicle . It wasn’t a race . She thought it was .
I don’t think anything Carter did there is evidence of a character flaw . Just a young man having fun winding up connected to an awful tragedy not of his making .
Pete and John are quite bad at picking d linemen it seems , even in the championship year free agents were the bulk of our talent . That said if Pete and John think he’s worth drafting and there’s not another standout player offense or defense available at 5 take him . He isn’t going to last till 20 imo .

“ RD No one, at least no one in here, has blamed Carter for the fatal car crash. But nor should we say that he has no fault whatsoever. We don't have all the facts so none of us should jump to any conclusions, but if he was involved in a race, then he bears quite a bit of responsibility and should be held criminally liable.

But what we do know, and what others and I have noted, is Carter's completely irresponsible behavior immediately following the crash. We've all seen the actions of true heroes that risk their lives to save that of a complete stranger. Carter knew those people that were involved, and we can assume that they were friends of his, yet when it's obvious that their lives were in danger, he puts his tail between his legs and leaves the scene like a scolded puppy before first responders arrive. That's a huge character flaw IMO, and there's no way you can paint a smiley face on it. Two people died, for crying out loud.[/quote]

And there you go . 2 people died . He didn’t cause it and isn’t charged with causing it . He is a guy who showed up to a scene of horror and I’m not judging his reaction . He wasn’t at fault , he returned to the scene and got his story straight eventually . He wasn’t drunk unlike the college employee 27 years old 3 times the legal limit driving college students around in a university pool vehicle . That’s the character issue I’m concerned more about . The U of a Georgia should be sued out of existence for this .
They are dead because of the driver , not Carter . I won’t waste any more time on it other than to say been there done that being a young guy with a fast car . Also unfortunately awoke to a dead man laying on what was left of my dash . I’ll not judge anyones reactions to a fatal car crash . It will be fascinating to see what does happen to the young man’s stock in the draft and his career after .

I read a report Seattle had also inquired with Chicago about the first pick . Might be rumor but if so doesn’t that make pretty clear they are targeting a qb, perhaps a specific one . They might all be gone by 5 . I wouldn’t be shocked if Hooker Hendon went late first . It is pretty fun to be in the mix with a top 5 pick but hopefully the value is there.

[Aseahawkfan]

That's actually a very good question. I say if your defense is your weakness (especially your run defense), and you're a team serious about making a 3-4 work, the answer is yes.

Our run defense does suck. If we drafted Jalen and that changed, I certainly would not cry at the pick.

I hope we get someone very, very good at number 5. Top 5 picks are so rare in Seattle. We may not be New England, but Paul Allen kept us in the top tier of teams for 20 years. So we don't see too many high picks in Seattle.

[RiverDog]

And there you go . 2 people died . He didn’t cause it and isn’t charged with causing it . He is a guy who showed up to a scene of horror and I’m not judging his reaction . He wasn’t at fault , he returned to the scene and got his story straight eventually . He wasn’t drunk unlike the college employee 27 years old 3 times the legal limit driving college students around in a university pool vehicle . That’s the character issue I’m concerned more about . The U of a Georgia should be sued out of existence for this .

They are dead because of the driver , not Carter . I won’t waste any more time on it other than to say been there done that being a young guy with a fast car . Also unfortunately awoke to a dead man laying on what was left of my dash . I’ll not judge anyones reactions to a fatal car crash . It will be fascinating to see what does happen to the young man’s stock in the draft and his career after .

I read a report Seattle had also inquired with Chicago about the first pick . Might be rumor but if so doesn’t that make pretty clear they are targeting a qb, perhaps a specific one . They might all be gone by 5 . I wouldn’t be shocked if Hooker Hendon went late first . It is pretty fun to be in the mix with a top 5 pick but hopefully the value is there.

Have you ever participated in a root cause analysis? We used to do them all the time at work. In it, you identify not only the root cause, but also contributing factors without which the occurrence would not have happened. It's like a perfect storm. Take one factor out of the equation, say no wind shear at 10k feet, and the hurricane doesn't form. Was the lack of wind shear the root cause of the hurricane? No, of course not. But if there had been high winds up high, it would not have formed.

In this case, if Carter was racing with the deceased driver, then he is a contributing factor without which the accident in all likelihood would not have happened. It takes two to Tango. No one to race, and the driver likely doesn't drive that fast.

Whether Carter gets charged or not IMO is irrelevant. What we already know is extremely concerning, that rather than do what he could to help his friends, he left them to die, likely because of a consciousness of guilt and fear of being implicated.

[jshawaii22]

I read a report Seattle had also inquired with Chicago about the first pick . Might be rumor but if so doesn’t that make pretty clear they are targeting a qb, perhaps a specific one . They might all be gone by 5 . I wouldn’t be shocked if Hooker Hendon went late first . It is pretty fun to be in the mix with a top 5 pick but hopefully the value is there.

Carolina GM that they wouldn't be against trading down from #1 to recoup some of the cost to move up. Interesting notion if any of the Seahawk rumors are true. They've never had the #1. Which QB would they be after? Personally, I would rather have one of the top two D-Ends with the #5 and keep the pick. Moving up to #1 would cost at least the #5 and a couple of 2's +... Jamal Adams? Diggs?

[RiverDog]

I read a report Seattle had also inquired with Chicago about the first pick . Might be rumor but if so doesn’t that make pretty clear they are targeting a qb, perhaps a specific one . They might all be gone by 5 . I wouldn’t be shocked if Hooker Hendon went late first . It is pretty fun to be in the mix with a top 5 pick but hopefully the value is there.

Carolina GM that they wouldn't be against trading down from #1 to recoup some of the cost to move up. Interesting notion if any of the Seahawk rumors are true. They've never had the #1. Which QB would they be after? Personally, I would rather have one of the top two D-Ends with the #5 and keep the pick. Moving up to #1 would cost at least the #5 and a couple of 2's +... Jamal Adams? Diggs?

I wouldn't want to pay that kind of a price to move up for a DE, at least none of those that we've seen this season. There's too good of a chance for them to fall to us anyway. Only if they have their eyeballs on a quarterback would paying a high price to move up would I go along with it. I'm actually of the mindset to do the opposite, trade down a few slots and pick up some more draft capital for next year.

And I agree with Hawktawk. It's nice to be in that mix for a top pick as it adds some intrigue to the lead-up to the draft. It also added some interest to last season, watching and hoping for Denver to lose. That would be one of the advantages if we were to trade down and pick up some other team's 2024 first rounder.

[Hawktawk]

And there you go . 2 people died . He didn’t cause it and isn’t charged with causing it . He is a guy who showed up to a scene of horror and I’m not judging his reaction . He wasn’t at fault , he returned to the scene and got his story straight eventually . He wasn’t drunk unlike the college employee 27 years old 3 times the legal limit driving college students around in a university pool vehicle . That’s the character issue I’m concerned more about . The U of a Georgia should be sued out of existence for this .

They are dead because of the driver , not Carter . I won’t waste any more time on it other than to say been there done that being a young guy with a fast car . Also unfortunately awoke to a dead man laying on what was left of my dash . I’ll not judge anyones reactions to a fatal car crash . It will be fascinating to see what does happen to the young man’s stock in the draft and his career after .

I read a report Seattle had also inquired with Chicago about the first pick . Might be rumor but if so doesn’t that make pretty clear they are targeting a qb, perhaps a specific one . They might all be gone by 5 . I wouldn’t be shocked if Hooker Hendon went late first . It is pretty fun to be in the mix with a top 5 pick but hopefully the value is there.

“ Have you ever participated in a root cause analysis? We used to do them all the time at work. In it, you identify not only the root cause, but also contributing factors without which the occurrence would not have happened. It's like a perfect storm. Take one factor out of the equation, say no wind shear at 10k feet, and the hurricane doesn't form. Was the lack of wind shear the root cause of the hurricane? No, of course not. But if there had been high winds up high, it would not have formed.

In this case, if Carter was racing with the deceased driver, then he is a contributing factor without which the accident in all likelihood would not have happened. It takes two to Tango. No one to race, and the driver likely doesn't drive that fast.

Whether Carter gets charged or not IMO is irrelevant. What we already know is extremely concerning, that rather than do what he could to help his friends, he left them to die, likely because of a consciousness of guilt and fear of being implicated.[/quote]

One more time . As I or Bob or any other car guy would point out he’s got twice the horsepower . He’s a lead foot like always which caused tickets . She was the lead vehicle when she crashed . The only way he’s behind her is if he intentionally slowed down . He would have sucked the headlights out of that massive expedition, been miles ahead in short order if he was racing .

He was returning to campus in conjunction with a woman who is obliterated drunk . She decides it’s a race .

As a supercharged grand Cherokee owner I can confirm everyone wants to race . Every one of my fast cars someone wants to race .

When it’s a person driving a huge pool suv with half the power it’s not a race . He’s not charged in the deaths . He didn’t cause them , instigate them or anything of the sort . A blotto drunk U of Georgia employee is responsible for her death and another . Can’t charge dead people though.

It’s a senseless tragedy , avoidable had someone stopped what had to be a wasted staggering drunk from driving at all. At that BAC she may well have killed someone else . We have no idea how she drives normally , was she a speeder?

And you have no idea what Carter was thinking during his actions after seeing a buddy laying dead in the road after being ejected because the Georgia employee didn’t make sure his seatbelt was fastened . We’re all good at pointing the finger at a 22 year old young man . Don’t judge if you haven’t been there with what this was .

I would not use this as a reason to take the guy off the board . It might mature him in a good way . I would be more concerned about some of the work ethic stuff and poor conditioning .

[NorthHawk]

I would not use this as a reason to take the guy off the board . It might mature him in a good way . I would be more concerned about some of the work ethic stuff and poor conditioning .

That's really the crux of the issue, isn't it?
Will he mature, how is his work ethic and why is he poorly conditioned even after declaring that his goal before his draft year was to get in better condition?

After trying to answer those questions, another question arises, namely is it worth gambling the #5 pick on him in the hope he is a team changer and culture leader like we expect the top picks to be?
I don't see any evidence that he is that person outside of flashes of extreme talent. Some FO's don't even want to have that doubt around their team even if selected in the 4th round as it can negatively impact the whole team dynamic.
But I'm sure one team will take a chance at some point, however it's doubtful it's us at least early in the draft.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

One more time . As I or Bob or any other car guy would point out he’s got twice the horsepower . He’s a lead foot like always which caused tickets . She was the lead vehicle when she crashed . The only way he’s behind her is if he intentionally slowed down . He would have sucked the headlights out of that massive expedition, been miles ahead in short order if he was racing .

He was returning to campus in conjunction with a woman who is obliterated drunk . She decides it’s a race .

Not sure how it will be viewed legally, but, if he was keeping pace with her at all, I would think he would be considered as racing with her.

As a supercharged grand Cherokee owner I can confirm everyone wants to race . Every one of my fast cars someone wants to race .

As commonplace as you are making this sound, I hope this isn't true, and it's moronic if they indulge in this behavior. Racing belongs on race tracks; not public roads. This certainly wouldn't be a valid defense for reckless driving.

When it’s a person driving a huge pool suv with half the power it’s not a race . He’s not charged in the deaths . He didn’t cause them , instigate them or anything of the sort . A blotto drunk U of Georgia employee is responsible for her death and another . Can’t charge dead people though.

Again, depends on if he kept pace with her at all. Just because his car is much faster doesn't mean he wasn't participating.

It’s a senseless tragedy , avoidable had someone stopped what had to be a wasted staggering drunk from driving at all. At that BAC she may well have killed someone else . We have no idea how she drives normally , was she a speeder?

And you have no idea what Carter was thinking during his actions after seeing a buddy laying dead in the road after being ejected because the Georgia employee didn’t make sure his seatbelt was fastened . We’re all good at pointing the finger at a 22 year old young man . Don’t judge if you haven’t been there with what this was .

I would not use this as a reason to take the guy off the board . It might mature him in a good way . I would be more concerned about some of the work ethic stuff and poor conditioning .

Very true, and there's details I'm sure we are not aware. Seeing as how none of us were there, we can't speak to what really happened or what his motives were. As for his draft stock, I would be steering clear of him. I'm not big on the youth do stupid things so cut them some slack. There's still consequences, and if he drops down or off boards entirely, so be it.

[RiverDog]

I would not use this as a reason to take the guy off the board . It might mature him in a good way . I would be more concerned about some of the work ethic stuff and poor conditioning .

Very true, and there's details I'm sure we are not aware. Seeing as how none of us were there, we can't speak to what really happened or what his motives were. As for his draft stock, I would be steering clear of him. I'm not big on the youth do stupid things so cut them some slack. There's still consequences, and if he drops down or off boards entirely, so be it.

Especially when you're talking about a highly visible top 5 pick, teams are extremely jittery about anything even slightly off kilter. Coaches and GM's have a short life span and are always skating on thin ice, and if a player that had any red flags busts, it gives all of us armchair coaches plenty of ammo to call for their heads. This is a league where a player dropped out of the top 10 because a video surfaced of him wearing a bong mask.

I'm with Mack on the young and dumb excuse. Carter turns 23 next month. We're talking about an adult, not an adolescent. Besides, Carter was cited for speeding at nearly twice the posted speed limit, 89 in a 45, just a few months prior to this accident:

https://fansided.com/2023/03/12/jalen-c ... -speeding/

The cop told him that he didn't want him making news by hauling him to jail on a reckless driving charge, so he let him skate by with just a speeding ticket:

The police officer who stopped Carter apparently told him he wasn't taking him to jail because he didn't want to make the news.

That's not going to bode well for him if they decide to press charges. Zero sympathy from me.

[obiken]

River, refresh my memory but Warren Sapp did not have a work ethic tag, he had a weed rumor, I am wrong on this? So the analogy some have made to him and Carter is false and pejorative. I would stay off Carter, too many other good players to be had.

[RiverDog]

River, refresh my memory but Warren Sapp did not have a work ethic tag, he had a weed rumor, I am wrong on this? So the analogy some have made to him and Carter is false and pejorative. I would stay off Carter, too many other good players to be had.

There were some rumors about Sapp having failed multiple cocaine and marijuana tests that leaked out the night before the draft that likely scared some teams away from him. He was projected to go in the top 5 but slid to #12 overall where the Bucs took him. I never heard of any work ethic issues, though.

Sapp may not be a fair comparison to Carter, but he is an example of just how jittery teams are when it comes to high draft picks. And I'm with you, I don't want to use our #5 overall on Carter. If we happened to trade down into the teens, then maybe.

[govandals]

Pete and John have specifically spoken of acquiring high character guys since the last draft. I don't think Jalen Cater is on their board at all.

[Hawktawk]

Carter was a 22 year old (sober ) lead foot with tickets to prove it . Maybe at 22 he should learn to slow down . His jeep is shiny and wrinkle free.
I believe the deceased university of Georgia recruiting department employee who drove off a sharp curve at over 100 mph was 27 years old I believe . Who was irresponsible ?
Seems to me all Carter could have done is parked or he’s linked to a blotto drunk who crashed and died . I heard Kirby Smart adress the press after this and the Stetson Bennett wasted stupor in public case . Asked if there is a culture issue at Georgie “ not a chance “ as they bury a recruiter and player , watch 2 others drop in the draft due to personal issues. I really don’t like Georgia anymore . They are up with Alabama . Neg or reckless . Fine. It’s an insult to call it a race .

[c_hawkbob]

Pete and John have specifically spoken of acquiring high character guys since the last draft. I don't think Jalen Cater is on their board at all.

Because he drives fast? Oh my.

[RiverDog]

Pete and John have specifically spoken of acquiring high character guys since the last draft. I don't think Jalen Cater is on their board at all.

Because he drives fast? Oh my.

The issue, in my mind, isn't so much that Carter 'drives fast'. It's that he left the scene of a fatal accident that involved two people of whom he knew, one being a teammate, even before first responders arrived. With a friend like that, who needs enemies? Couple that with a poor work ethic, low motor, or whatever, and it raises a huge red flag, at least for a top 5 pick.

And Hawktawk, for the umpteenth time, no one is saying that Carter was responsible for the accident, so please quit implying that we are. What is being said is that it's very likely that he was a contributing factor. At the very least, he did not intervene even though just a few months earlier, Carter was stopped for speeding, given a huge break by the cop who showed some mercy by not considering it reckless driving, a criminal misdemeanor that would have landed him in jail, and begged him to tell his friends to throttle it back, a plea that fell on deaf ears.

[govandals]

Because he drives fast? Oh my.

A lot more to it than just that as RD has stated above. All those red flags add up. If driving fast was his only issue, this would not even be a discussion.

[NorthHawk]

Add to it the importance of the value of a top 5 pick. Hopefully we never have to be there again, so it's really important to get it right.
He may end up being the best DT to ever play, but he may also end up like Albert Haynesworth at the end of his career who seemed to be just looking for the money.
It's the high risk that most of us are worried about at a position that can be addressed in a number of ways unlike a QB for instance.

[c_hawkbob]

As of now anything more than 'drives fast' is speculation.

[RiverDog]

As of now anything more than 'drives fast' is speculation.

Not at all. We know for a fact that Carter was charged with speeding AND reckless driving in the incident that killed two people. We know for a fact that he left the scene of an accident his friend and teammate were involved in before first responders arrived. And we know for a fact that he was stopped and ticketed several months earlier for speeding nearly twice the speed limit.

I'm not sure why some of you are trying to trivialize his behavior as 'just speeding.' It seems as if you're trying to make it sound normal, like something any one of us might be guilty of.

[Hawktawk]

Because he drives fast? Oh my.

" GV
A lot more to it than just that as RD has stated above. All those red flags add up. If driving fast was his only issue, this would not even be a discussion.[/quote]

Im 63 , white raised middle class. My dad said to me growing up "dont ever admit anything to a police officer. Make them prove it." Unfortunately I didn't take his advice a few times and it was used against me for sure.

Now you have a young black man in 2023.....Hes already been in trouble for speeding which he was doing again for sure . Hes gone from the scene a little over an hour, eventually tells the cops everything about his actions. He wasn't drunk.
The focus is on the wrong culprit period. Thats U of Georgia .

I highly doubt any team or the draft rank people were unaware hes 22 with fast car he speeds in sometimes. He was ranked 5, period up till these insinuations he was responsible for this crash. Not some drip drip of hes a thief, accused of rape, drugs, wasted in public.The first real motor and conditioning things I've heard were from my fellow shackers. Is he such a premier talent he was #5 with those type of concerns?
If you never drove a Jeep with 700 horsepower, a drug administered with the right toes that will hit 80 in about 5 seconds you will never understand.
I understand though I haven't had a ticket yet in 3 years. I pick my spots. Plus my wife drives it most of the time which helps.I would have been in more trouble than him if I had that growing up.

[c_hawkbob]

Speeding AND reckless driving, as well as prior tickets are all 'drives fast'. And did he actually leave the scene or did he not stop in the first place? Your always telling us what we don't know for a fact yet unless the judge says so, except in this case.

[RiverDog]

Im 63 , white raised middle class. My dad said to me growing up "dont ever admit anything to a police officer. Make them prove it." Unfortunately I didn't take his advice a few times and it was used against me for sure.

Now you have a young black man in 2023.....Hes already been in trouble for speeding which he was doing again for sure . Hes gone from the scene a little over an hour, eventually tells the cops everything about his actions. He wasn't drunk.
The focus is on the wrong culprit period. Thats U of Georgia .

I highly doubt any team or the draft rank people were unaware hes 22 with fast car he speeds in sometimes. He was ranked 5, period up till these insinuations he was responsible for this crash. Not some drip drip of hes a thief, accused of rape, drugs, wasted in public.The first real motor and conditioning things I've heard were from my fellow shackers. Is he such a premier talent he was #5 with those type of concerns?
If you never drove a Jeep with 700 horsepower, a drug administered with the right toes that will hit 80 in about 5 seconds you will never understand.
I understand though I haven't had a ticket yet in 3 years. I pick my spots. Plus my wife drives it most of the time which helps.I would have been in more trouble than him if I had that growing up.

First of all, quit saying that Carter wasn't drunk. You don't know that. All we know is that officers did not detect the presence of alcohol. Carter left the scene for several hours, enough time to brush your teeth and burn off a couple hundredths on a BAC (our bodies burn off alcohol at a rate of .016 per hour). I'm not saying that's what he did, but it is a possibility.

Secondly, please quit trying to introduce race into this subject. There is no evidence whatsoever that it was a factor. If anything, the fact that he was given a huge break by a white police officer just a few months earlier should have re-assured Carter that he wouldn't be profiled. To his credit, Carter himself has not said that race was a factor, so I don't understand why you keep bringing it up, perhaps to defend a weak argument.

We don't know why Carter left the scene and all any of us can do is speculate as to his reason. But he would have to have been deaf, blind, and mute not to have known that the accident was damn serious and that his friend's lives were in jeopardy. To his credit, he did return later, but the fact that he left rather than at least check on their status is extremely concerning.

[c_hawkbob]

I'm not sure why some of you are trying to trivialize his behavior as 'just speeding.' It seems as if you're trying to make it sound normal, like something any one of us might be guilty of.

And I can't for the life of me figure out why you're trying to vilify his behavior as something any of us might not be guilty of!

I've been that age, driving muscle cars, gotten speeding, exhibition of speed and reckless driving tickets and even involved in a major accident drag racing (still not saying that's necessarily what happed here yet) accident and none of that made me the kind malfeasant you're trying to make this guy out to be.

[RiverDog]

Speeding AND reckless driving, as well as prior tickets are all 'drives fast'. And did he actually leave the scene or did he not stop in the first place? Your always telling us what we don't know for a fact yet unless the judge says so, except in this case.

From Carter's own statement:

An Atlanta Journal-Constitution report on Wednesday said Carter, 21, initially told police he was about a mile away from the crash, then later said he was following the car that had crashed.

Carter then told police, per the report, that he was alongside the other car. The report said Carter left the crash scene and returned 90 minutes later.

https://nypost.com/2023/03/01/jalen-car ... gia-crash/

I'm not making this stuff up.

[RiverDog]

[

I'm not sure why some of you are trying to trivialize his behavior as 'just speeding.' It seems as if you're trying to make it sound normal, like something any one of us might be guilty of.

And I can't for the life of me figure out why you're trying to vilify his behavior as something any of us might not be guilty of!

I've been that age, driving muscle cars, gotten speeding, exhibition of speed and reckless driving tickets and even involved in a major accident drag racing (still not saying that's necessarily what happed here yet) accident and none of that made me the kind malfeasant you're trying to make this guy out to be.

Once again, I am not as concerned with the racing as much as I am his leaving the scene of the accident. Until I hear a reasonable explanation as to why he left, I'll continue to characterize his behavior as very concerning.

[c_hawkbob]

From Carter's own statement:

An Atlanta Journal-Constitution report on Wednesday said Carter, 21, initially told police he was about a mile away from the crash, then later said he was following the car that had crashed.

Carter then told police, per the report, that he was alongside the other car. The report said Carter left the crash scene and returned 90 minutes later.

https://nypost.com/2023/03/01/jalen-car ... gia-crash/

I'm not making this stuff up.

Carter's statement is not contained in that article, (except the one where he says there's a lot of inaccurate reports). That was a reporter summarizing a police report. And taken individually each point could well be true! He could have been behind and next to at various times and still been a mile away when the accident happened! For all we know he could have waited for them to show up, eventually gotten worried and after an hour or so backtracked looking for them.

Don't tell me about what's more likely, lets just see how it shakes out.

[NorthHawk]

The car crash is only one part of it, though.
He said before the last year his goal was to get in better shape. As it turns out he didn't achieve that as he was seen on the sidelines gasping for air during important times of games. Along with that are reports of immaturity and selfishness from more than one source in the media who talked with scouts.
The selfishness and immaturity would fit with leaving the crash scene, but if a team is counting on him to be all in on football, these issues can really put the seeds of doubt in a Front Office's mind and may cause him to fall down the board.
Are they going to spend a very high pick on a player who has a very high ceiling but who also is a much higher risk than most players considered to be the in the top players of a draft?
A lot of teams that value culture and focus might not consider him as someone they want to take a chance on - and I think we are one of those teams.

[RiverDog]

From Carter's own statement:

An Atlanta Journal-Constitution report on Wednesday said Carter, 21, initially told police he was about a mile away from the crash, then later said he was following the car that had crashed.

Carter then told police, per the report, that he was alongside the other car. The report said Carter left the crash scene and returned 90 minutes later.

https://nypost.com/2023/03/01/jalen-car ... gia-crash/

I'm not making this stuff up.

Carter's statement is not contained in that article, (except the one where he says there's a lot of inaccurate reports). That was a reporter summarizing a police report. And taken individually each point could well be true! He could have been behind and next to at various times and still been a mile away when the accident happened! For all we know he could have waited for them to show up, eventually gotten worried and after an hour or so backtracked looking for them.

Don't tell me about what's more likely, lets just see how it shakes out.

I'm expressing my opinion as to the likeliness of what happened just as you are telling me your opinion of what 'could' have happened.

Could the reports that Carter left the scene of the accident be false? Sure, they could. But they're strewn all over the place, and more than one publication would have to be very wrong for it not to be true. At this point, I'm accepting it as a fact. With what's at stake, you'd think Carter would have corrected at least that aspect of the story if it wasn't true.

As far as the topic is concerned, it's very relevant to our draft and a legitimate subject for discussion. I'm sure that we'll continue to express our concerns and speculate about his behavior and his character as the draft gets closer.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

And I can't for the life of me figure out why you're trying to vilify his behavior as something any of us might not be guilty of!

I've been that age, driving muscle cars, gotten speeding, exhibition of speed and reckless driving tickets and even involved in a major accident drag racing (still not saying that's necessarily what happed here yet) accident and none of that made me the kind malfeasant you're trying to make this guy out to be.

If I were looking at drafting you number 5 overall for a millions of dollars commitment for 4 years, I wouldn’t rank an incident history like yours very highly on my list. Doesn’t make you a bad person, but it’s a tough sell.

[c_hawkbob]

And I can't for the life of me figure out why you're trying to vilify his behavior as something any of us might not be guilty of!

I've been that age, driving muscle cars, gotten speeding, exhibition of speed and reckless driving tickets and even involved in a major accident drag racing (still not saying that's necessarily what happed here yet) accident and none of that made me the kind malfeasant you're trying to make this guy out to be.

If I were looking at drafting you number 5 overall for a millions of dollars commitment for 4 years, I wouldn’t rank an incident history like yours very highly on my list. Doesn’t make you a bad person, but it’s a tough sell.

I guess then we disagree. I reserve that for DUIs, drug involvement, DV, gun charges or gang involvement. Not misdemeanor traffic violations.

[RiverDog]

And I can't for the life of me figure out why you're trying to vilify his behavior as something any of us might not be guilty of!

I've been that age, driving muscle cars, gotten speeding, exhibition of speed and reckless driving tickets and even involved in a major accident drag racing (still not saying that's necessarily what happed here yet) accident and none of that made me the kind malfeasant you're trying to make this guy out to be.

If I were looking at drafting you number 5 overall for a millions of dollars commitment for 4 years, I wouldn’t rank an incident history like yours very highly on my list. Doesn’t make you a bad person, but it’s a tough sell.

I guess then we disagree. I reserve that for DUIs, drug involvement, DV, gun charges or gang involvement. Not misdemeanor traffic violations.

Sigh. Here we go again, back to trivializing the incident. What Carter is being charged with isn't as bad as a DUI or vehicular homicide, drugs, et al, but neither is it a simple misdemeanor traffic violation. He's being charged with street racing and reckless driving. Reckless driving in GA is a criminal misdemeanor punishable by up to a year in jail. I'm not sure what the range is for street racing, but any conviction requires a minimum of 10 days in jail.

Think about it: Would he have flown back from Indianapolis during the combine just to address a "misdemeanor traffic violation"?

Athens-Clarke County Police on Wednesday recommended charges of street racing and reckless driving against Carter in connection with the wreck, according to a news release.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/new ... %2C%202023

That's why the cop that pulled him over a few months earlier for doing 89 in a 45 told him that he was giving him a break by just giving him a speeding ticket even though he considered what he was doing was reckless driving.

[c_hawkbob]

Sorry but yes, by definition misdemeanor traffic offenses.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Like I said, doesn’t make you a bad person. My issue is it adds another layer of risk. Draft picks panning out as far as talent and mentality to make it in the NFL go is risk enough. I don’t want to add a reckless person who makes questionable decisions that could lead to injury and legal trouble off the field. Not at #5 overall. Too much is at stake at that high of pick.

[RiverDog]

Sorry but yes, by definition misdemeanor traffic offenses.

Your 'definition' left out the word 'criminal', which adds a whole different flavor to it. Simple misdemeanor traffic offenses don't include jail time.

You're also conveniently forgetting that two people died in the incident in which Carter is being charged. I would think that fact wouldn't be lost within a man of your good character.

[Hawktawk]

Sorry but yes, by definition misdemeanor traffic offenses.

Your 'definition' left out the word 'criminal', which adds a whole different flavor to it. Simple misdemeanor traffic offenses don't include jail time.

You're also conveniently forgetting that two people died in the incident in which Carter is being charged. I would think that fact wouldn't be lost within a man of your good character.

Good God were still on this>?For the zillionth time River you point out 2 people died without making the distinction he didn't cause it. Then you chide us when we say hes not accused of it. You do it every time you write the words" 2 people died"

Carter is a leadfoot. The deceased woman responsible for the 2 deaths was almost 3 times the legal limit and drove off a sharp curve at 100+ as a U of Georgia employee in a university vehicle.

It's not hard to see whos at fault or the shiny object syndrome distraction these accusations against Carter provide for the university.

As for the GMs and scouts looking for these boy scout 22 year old multimillionaires who drive priuses and follow the laws good Fing luck. Athetes have been crashing and dying in hot cars forever. Ask Jerome Brown and Bobby Phills for 2.

But for the grace of god there goes I and probably you too unless you were boring and drove a pinto. Otherwise stop lying about ever lining up against another car.

The FA pickup probably means hes not on our board and yeah hes a leadfoot but hes a victim here. Nobody would be talking about a SOBER!!!!!!! kid out punching his throttle if not for the negligence of the university of Georgia which you will not even address. Not sure your chub for this kid.Accused him of being drunk now I see. Jesus man.

[RiverDog]

Sorry but yes, by definition misdemeanor traffic offenses.

Your 'definition' left out the word 'criminal', which adds a whole different flavor to it. Simple misdemeanor traffic offenses don't include jail time.

You're also conveniently forgetting that two people died in the incident in which Carter is being charged. I would think that fact wouldn't be lost within a man of your good character.

Good God were still on this? For the zillionth time River you point out 2 people died without making the distinction he didn't cause it. Then you chide us when we say hes not accused of it. You do it every time you write the words" 2 people died"

Carter is a leadfoot. The deceased woman responsible for the 2 deaths was almost 3 times the legal limit and drove off a sharp curve at 100+ as a U of Georgia employee in a university vehicle.

It's not hard to see whos at fault or the shiny object syndrome distraction these accusations against Carter provide for the university.

As for the GMs and scouts looking for these boy scout 22 year old multimillionaires who drive priuses and follow the laws good Fing luck. Athetes have been crashing and dying in hot cars forever. Ask Jerome Brown and Bobby Phills for 2.

But for the grace of god there goes I and probably you too unless you were boring and drove a pinto. Otherwise stop lying about ever lining up against another car.

The FA pickup probably means hes not on our board and yeah hes a leadfoot but hes a victim here. Nobody would be talking about a SOBER!!!!!!! kid out punching his throttle if not for the negligence of the university of Georgia which you will not even address. Not sure your chub for this kid.Accused him of being drunk now I see. Jesus man.

Boy, you're really twisting my words. I accused Carter of being drunk? In all seriousness, can you read what I write or are you just breezing through without comprehending? Am I getting through to you? I specifically said that they saw no evidence of him having been drinking. That doesn't mean that he hadn't been. He left the scene of the accident for some reason, and one possible reason would have been a consciousness of guilt.

And where was it that I 'chided' anyone for saying that he wasn't accused of anything beyond racing and reckless driving? What I was 'chiding' people for was intentionally trivializing the charges by ignoring the word "criminal." And once again, I specifically said that I didn't consider him directly responsible. You and a few others are trying to claim that he had zero responsibility, or at least that's the impression you're giving me, and that's what I'm objecting to.

If you want to address the negligence of the U of Georgia, then go right ahead. I'll be right there with you as IMO they are at least somewhat liable, probably in a civil court, of not doing more to address what seems to be a pattern of behavior within their athletic department. But it doesn't excuse anyone of their responsibility in the accident.

As far as my own personal experience goes, no, I never drove a Pinto, but I never had a muscle car, either. My first car was a '65 Chevy Impala 4 door, 327 V8. I bought it a few months before a graduated from HS with my own funds. With the goal of paying my own way through college, I couldn't afford to waste money on a hot car. There were a number of times when I drove nearly 2X the speed limit, 90 in a 50 maybe, but always on a county road on the way home from Cheney or after I got off work in the summer.

I never 'lined up' to race anyone. Obviously some did, but it wasn't the norm. Some guys would race from stoplight to stoplight over the course of a few city blocks, but never far enough to get much above 40 or 50. I'm sure that there were some racing done out of town, but nothing that I ever attended.

[c_hawkbob]

"My" definition Riv, left out nothing. These words are definitive in and of themselves. Misdemeanor and felony do not require the word "criminal" because they are the words that classify crime. there in no non-criminal misdemeanor. the fact that it doesn't sound serous enough for you is only a problem to you.

[RiverDog]

"My" definition Riv, left out nothing. These words are definitive in and of themselves. Misdemeanor and felony do not require the word "criminal" because they are the words that classify crime. there in no non-criminal misdemeanor. the fact that it doesn't sound serous enough for you is only a problem to you.

Some definitions taken from Georgia law:

What are Some Examples of Misdemeanors in Georgia?
Examples of misdemeanors in Georgia include:

Certain DUI offenses
Domestic violence
Falsifying documents
Reckless conduct
Shoplifting
Simple assault/battery
Trespassing
Unlawful hunting of game
Vandalism

Also remember that the Georgia Wobbler law can classify some misdemeanors as felonies which can therefore increase the penalties. For instance, particularly violent misdemeanors can be classified as felonies. The same applies to repeated offenders of certain misdemeanors who can get a felony sentence after the third offense.

https://georgiacourtrecords.us/criminal ... rds/types/

And here's the GA law regarding street racing, which is also categorized as a misdemeanor:

Anyone convicted of drag racing on a highway or private property would also face graduated penalties within a ten year period:

First conviction: a fine of $300-$750 and 10 days to 6 months in jail

https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/georgi ... -offenders

In other words, all misdemeanors are not created equal as you're trying to claim they are. How many simple misdemeanors have a minimum 10 day jail term?

And answer me this: Why would Carter leave the combine and fly back to Georgia just to address a simple misdemeanor? What he is being accused of is serious stuff, more than just a speeding ticket.

Plus keep in mind that just a few months earlier, Carter was given a speeding ticket for 2x the speed limit, and the cop is on record as telling him that he considered it reckless driving but was giving him a break. I'll honor your request in that I not tell you what's likely, but it's obvious that little piece of information won't play well for him in front of a judge.