Our Investment In Our Defense Since 2018

[Old but Slow]

Whether Pete stays or goes is not particularly important to me at this point. The defense, however, needs to change. The team switched from a modified 4-3 to a 3-4, but tried to do it with basically the same players. It did not fit. A 3-4 requires run stopping defensive ends with rush linebackers. Taylor, for instance, is a good defensive end in a 4-3, but does not contain the run as well as a 3-4 end should. We put Poona at DE instead of in the middle, and had nobody to effectively play the 3 technique.

Add to that the tendency to play cheap free agent vets over the young players that need to develop. I don't know if Hurtt is the problem as he did not have a lot to work with. The poor tackling and failure to fill running lanes, though, is mostly coaching.

My view is to either make a big overhaul of the personnel or go back to the 4-3, and give up this defensive experiment.

[RiverDog]

Pete has done a lot for Seattle football but his time has pretty much come to an end.
He’s had 5 years to fix the Defense and it’s still not performing well enough to compete at the highest level. He’s
even abandoned his 4-3 under scheme in an effort to improve it to no avail. He’s given up his Offensive philosophy
and that seems to have worked but we’re still in a severe talent deficit with holes all over the lineup.

I really appreciate he brought a championship and he should be celebrated for that but we’ve only won 1 playoff game
the last 6 or so years. Meanwhile the Rams have won a SB and the 49ers have gone deep into the playoffs while we watched from the sidelines.

Some people may be happy with just being competitive, but I’m one of those who thinks we should strive for a lot more.

Well said, and I agree completely. And I'll add that you can blame Pete for those of us who aren't satisfied with .500ish seasons and one and done playoff appearances as it can be said that he spoiled us with the products he put on the field in the first part of his tenure.

At this point, IMO it's probably wise to give him another year as I feel that we're in a better position to achieve our goal of getting back to the Super Bowl than we were at this time last season. But it wouldn't hurt my feelings at all if he were to call it a career and pass the baton to the next generation of great Seahawk head coaches.

[obiken]

Pete has done a lot for Seattle football but his time has pretty much come to an end.
He’s had 5 years to fix the Defense and it’s still not performing well enough to compete at the highest level. He’s
even abandoned his 4-3 under scheme in an effort to improve it to no avail. He’s given up his Offensive philosophy
and that seems to have worked but we’re still in a severe talent deficit with holes all over the lineup.

I really appreciate he brought a championship and he should be celebrated for that but we’ve only won 1 playoff game
the last 6 or so years. Meanwhile the Rams have won a SB and the 49ers have gone deep into the playoffs while we watched from the sidelines.

Some people may be happy with just being competitive, but I’m one of those who thinks we should strive for a lot more.

My take exactly NH!

[obiken]

IF I could trade off Pete for Sean Peyton, or a Stefanski, I would do it in a heartbeat River!

[Aseahawkfan]

If Pete don't rebuild the front seven or at least show it's well on its way to being rebuilt next year, he and John need to be put on a clock. Those units have been terrible for years. It has to be fixed or the people responsible for failing to fix it have to go.

I know most on here love a great offense. But I love a great defense. This defense is terrible. The personnel are not great.

I get jealous watching Bosa in Frisco. I want a monster defensive player like that.

[Hawktawk]

IF I could trade off Pete for Sean Peyton, or a Stefanski, I would do it in a heartbeat River!

Sean Payton last won a Super Bowl in 2009. His only appearance . He was ripped off by corrupt officiating in the 2019 conference championship “ worst no call in playoff history “ but I digress .

In 2012 suspended for the season for encouraging his players to injure other players. My guess Pete has as many wins in 13 years with Hass, Whitehurst , TJack , Russ and now Geno as Peyton has in 15 with 14 a sure fire first ballot hall of famer Brees.

His only year without Brees he went 8-9 with the #3 scoring D playing Jamies Winston , Tasem Hill who he paid 90 million , and some denver reject . Then he quit with 2 years on his deal .
Now it will cost at least 1 mid to high first rounder if not 2. Beyond that the man is reportedly asking for 20-25 per year , more than the greatest coach of all time . I can handle a couple of years of Carroll for that . I think the guy is smug , full of himself preening around for interviews but he may be the most overrated coach I can remember . Just a hunch for the most part but also looking at the track record he will be as a free agent coach as bad as 3 was a highly coveted target .

I don’t even know much about Stefanski . It’s not that I think Pete has a blank check . I said before the season I give him 1 year and I want a winning record and playoffs . I think it earned him 1 more . But then when we went 6-3 and then 3 and 5 to blow a real chance at the division with our defense horrible in the clutch , awful fundamentally which is bigger than talent . Outschemed in a defense not suited for the personell. When I hear Pete say post season we played Poona out of position all year I’m like Jesus man you just figured that out .

Pete’s never been the best X and O guy but he’s always been the best motivator , best at getting the most out of inferior athletes and if you line up his roster with wins it’s proven . But at a certain point if the roster isn’t there you can only will them to victory so many times .
My thing is be careful what you wish for and be sure to respect what’s been done right while criticizing what’s wrong .

[TriCitySam]

They had a good season, a great draft and some areas improved. They're in position to improve with a good draft this year....but the armchair's keep whining. Take away the LOB years, in the past 5 years out of 32 teams only 5 (FIVE) have more wins than Seattle. Very hard to win in the NFL - that is a pretty good job by JS and PC.

[c_hawkbob]

They had a good season, a great draft and some areas improved. They're in position to improve with a good draft this year....but the armchair's keep whining. Take away the LOB years, in the past 5 years out of 32 teams only 5 (FIVE) have more wins than Seattle. Very hard to win in the NFL - that is a pretty good job by JS and PC.

Exactly, but try to tell them we haven't been mediocre ...

[NorthHawk]

They had a good season, a great draft and some areas improved. They're in position to improve with a good draft this year....but the armchair's keep whining. Take away the LOB years, in the past 5 years out of 32 teams only 5 (FIVE) have more wins than Seattle. Very hard to win in the NFL - that is a pretty good job by JS and PC.

How many playoff wins?
That's the measuring stick.

If you want to wallow in the middle and never be ready to challenge for a championship, then fine, but many if not most want to have some hope for the future.
Sitting in the middle and having a winning season over and over just doesn't cut it. Not good enough to go deep into the playoffs and not bad enough to rebuild.
That's not much to be pleased about.

[RiverDog]

Yeah, the total wins don't float my boat.

Take a look at the Dallas Cowboys record over the past 9 years. They've had 1 season where they won 10 games, 3-12 win seasons, and one 13 win season. Pretty good, huh? But there's a kicker. Before last weekend, the Cowboys were just 2-4 in the playoffs and haven't been a serious threat to go to the Super Bowl. How many of us would consider the Dallas Cowboys as one of the more successful teams over that period of time? And being the friendly trash talker I am, I love throwing that in the face of Cowboys fans. Living in the past, what have you done for me lately, Jerry Jones?

That's pretty comparable to what we've done recently.

[Hawktawk]

They had a good season, a great draft and some areas improved. They're in position to improve with a good draft this year....but the armchair's keep whining. Take away the LOB years, in the past 5 years out of 32 teams only 5 (FIVE) have more wins than Seattle. Very hard to win in the NFL - that is a pretty good job by JS and PC.

How many playoff wins?
That's the measuring stick.

If you want to wallow in the middle and never be ready to challenge for a championship, then fine, but many if not most want to have some hope for the future.
Sitting in the middle and having a winning season over and over just doesn't cut it. Not good enough to go deep into the playoffs and not bad enough to rebuild.
That's not much to be pleased about.[/quote]

So let’s pay Sean Peyton 25 mil to do the same damn thing ? News flash . When you get to the tournament you have a chance . We scored 17 in a quarter on the best defense backed up by the best offense in the league . Were right in it till a bs call then a fumble with 2:40 left in the third . Before that in 2020 our 12-4 team won the division then lost bad to a team they had just beat 2 weeks before and your favorite qb went 11-29 with a pick 6 . Tell me his big game winning moment in a divisional ? It’s not all about the talent . It has been a team not good in those games . But ask the Texans how they would feel about regularly making the playoffs as a bonus from a coach who got you a Lombardi and 2 appearances in the super bowl .

Not thankful enough . Careful what you wish for

[TriCitySam]

How many playoff wins?
That's the measuring stick.

If you want to wallow in the middle and never be ready to challenge for a championship, then fine, but many if not most want to have some hope for the future.
Sitting in the middle and having a winning season over and over just doesn't cut it. Not good enough to go deep into the playoffs and not bad enough to rebuild.
That's not much to be pleased about.

That's your measuring stick - teams that fire winning coaches for that reason become long term losers - it's not a mindset that works for a long term winner. I don't want to be the Texans or the Jets or the Cardinals rolling thru coaches and not being competitive.

[Aseahawkfan]

The only way it's a good idea is if you obtain an equivalent or better coach. Coaches burnout or become set in their ways. We've seen it a ton of times. You need a new coach who infuse the team with new energy and motivation. Sometimes coaches stay around because no one wants to make the change, even while the team is stuck in a middle of the pack situation with the head coach no longer able to do what it takes to get to the next level. All of us that have been watching football for decades have seen this occur many, many times. Who knows specifically why, but it is a real phenomenon.

If winning a Super Bowl or regular season wins were the barometer of coaching success, you would just hold on to the same coach for thirty plus years. But we've seen that and it doesn't seem to lead to more championships.

There's something to be said for new blood taking the reins and infusing the team with energy and drive to win a Super Bowl. Once you had that Super Bowl win, nothing less than another one becomes enough.

[NorthHawk]

That's your measuring stick - teams that fire winning coaches for that reason become long term losers - it's not a mindset that works for a long term winner. I don't want to be the Texans or the Jets or the Cardinals rolling thru coaches and not being competitive.

Any team not striving for a championship and not making the necessary changes is simply trying for a
participation badge. That may be good enough for elementary school but it doesn’t cut it in Pro Sports.

In the middle is in the middle of nowhere.

[TriCitySam]

Any team not striving for a championship and not making the necessary changes is simply trying for a
participation badge. That may be good enough for elementary school but it doesn’t cut it in Pro Sports.

In the middle is in the middle of nowhere.

Wow...Ok, you were promoting Leftwich earlier. He just got canned as an OC, that should be a fun ride to the bottom.

[RiverDog]

That's your measuring stick - teams that fire winning coaches for that reason become long term losers - it's not a mindset that works for a long term winner. I don't want to be the Texans or the Jets or the Cardinals rolling thru coaches and not being competitive.

Boy, Marty Schottenheimer would have sure loved to have been working for you.

Andy Reid had a 130-93-1 record as the Philadelphia Eagles' head coach when they fired him after the 2012 season. Since then, they've had 3 head coaches, so they must be like the Jets and Cardinals, rolling through coaches and not being competitive, right? Wrong. All 3 coaches since Reid posted overall winning records for the Eagles, they won the Super Bowl once, and had the league's best record this season.

The point is that if we were to fire Pete...and I'm not saying that we should...it doesn't mean that we're destined to become a long term loser. All it would mean is that we're turning the page to the next chapter of Seahawk football.

[Aseahawkfan]

Boy, Marty Schottenheimer would have sure loved to have been working for you.

Andy Reid had a 130-93-1 record as the Philadelphia Eagles' head coach when they fired him after the 2012 season. Since then, they've had 3 head coaches, so they must be like the Jets and Cardinals, rolling through coaches and not being competitive, right? Wrong. All 3 coaches since Reid posted overall winning records for the Eagles, they won the Super Bowl once, and had the league's best record this season.

The point is that if we were to fire Pete...and I'm not saying that we should...it doesn't mean that we're destined to become a long term loser. All it would mean is that we're turning the page to the next chapter of Seahawk football.

If Paul Allen were still the owner, I wouldn't be worried about a new coach at all. Jodi is an unknown, so not sure what she'll do or if she knows a good coach. Hopefully she would do like her brother and hire an expert to find a new coach or lure some high quality name here.

I'm ok rolling with Pete a few more years. It seems he has finally gotten back to his roots now that the last vestiges of his Super Bowl team are gone. No more attachments. Just let the talent compete and may the best man take the job. Then you better compete to hold the job.

But the weak talent along the defensive line is my barometer for moving in the right direction. If Pete and John can't get that fixed, I don't think we're going anywhere. You can't let opposing offenses run over you like this and expect to win, especially with our offensive style of protect the ball and grind yards. It doesn't work.

I know I lack data, but head coaches getting attached to their players is one of the reasons why I think head coaches start to fail to return to championship form. One of the reasons Bill B was successful was ruthless churning of talent. Pete has been a little ruthless, but not quite enough and his assessment of players like Jamal Adams and other D-line players has not been great lately.

[Hawktawk]

That's your measuring stick - teams that fire winning coaches for that reason become long term losers - it's not a mindset that works for a long term winner. I don't want to be the Texans or the Jets or the Cardinals rolling thru coaches and not being competitive.

Boy, Marty Schottenheimer would have sure loved to have been working for you.

Andy Reid had a 130-93-1 record as the Philadelphia Eagles' head coach when they fired him after the 2012 season. Since then, they've had 3 head coaches, so they must be like the Jets and Cardinals, rolling through coaches and not being competitive, right? Wrong. All 3 coaches since Reid posted overall winning records for the Eagles, they won the Super Bowl once, and had the league's best record this season.

The point is that if we were to fire Pete...and I'm not saying that we should...it doesn't mean that we're destined to become a long term loser. All it would mean is that we're turning the page to the next chapter of Seahawk football.

Marty Schottenheimer was the most snakebit great coach in history. He was the Greg Norman of NFL HCs except Greg did get one major, should have had 4 or 5. Schottie last opportunity in the league ended with a 14-2 or 13-3 team in the AFC title game when some players on his Chargers team lost their cool in the final seconds and advanced the Pats to the super bowl.
Last I checked they haven't done a goddamn thing since. God rest his soul by the way.
He was a hell of a great coach, like Knox. Not all great coaches win one. Some franchises dont have one . Some have never gone to one much less win one.

When we talk about guys living in the past maybe we're talking about Shula with not a single championship in Marinos amazing career. But what the hell have they won since?
Eagles and Reid? Yeah I suppose but hes got something Siriani doesn't have, A Lombardi. He's looking real good right now and maybe a reunion with his old team in the big one! wouldnt that be fun.

The weird thing with Peterson is he did something Vermeil and Reid and Rhodes and whoever the hell else went through there didn't. Win it all. won it all with NICK FOLES AT QB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Beat GOAT squared. Had Foles catch a pass on 4th down for a TD to shame Belichick. Next year we eliminated them with 50 year old Josh McCown after Wendz pulled up lame self reporting concussion symptoms. A year later unemployed .
I said when Pete looked to be a bit shaky get that guy if Pete leaves. Well Jax did and the man coached up a team to win a playoff game with a QB who threw 4 picks. I know a guy who did that too...........

When Siriano or what the hell gets his lombardi with Hurts=Wilson we can say the Eagles know what they are doing cause if he dont win it all at least once and they and all of us watch Pedersen develop Jax into a power the eagles are gonna look like a stupid organization that got lucky once in the last 40 years . LIke Dallas. Maybe Pederson can get a reunion. Good luck though Eagles aint happening this year.

Seattle? Playoffs 10 of 13, lombardi and 2 superbowl apperances, even playoffs with half the roster new. I think Ive talked myself into another year of this loser has been Carroll.

[Aseahawkfan]

Marty Schottenheimer was the most snakebit great coach in history. He was the Greg Norman of NFL HCs except Greg did get one major, should have had 4 or 5. Schottie last opportunity in the league ended with a 14-2 or 13-3 team in the AFC title game when some players on his Chargers team lost their cool in the final seconds and advanced the Pats to the super bowl.
Last I checked they haven't done a goddamn thing since. God rest his soul by the way.
He was a hell of a great coach, like Knox. Not all great coaches win one. Some franchises dont have one . Some have never gone to one much less win one.

When we talk about guys living in the past maybe we're talking about Shula with not a single championship in Marinos amazing career. But what the hell have they won since?
Eagles and Reid? Yeah I suppose but hes got something Siriani doesn't have, A Lombardi. He's looking real good right now and maybe a reunion with his old team in the big one! wouldnt that be fun.

The weird thing with Peterson is he did something Vermeil and Reid and Rhodes and whoever the hell else went through there didn't. Win it all. won it all with NICK FOLES AT QB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Beat GOAT squared. Had Foles catch a pass on 4th down for a TD to shame Belichick. Next year we eliminated them with 50 year old Josh McCown after Wendz pulled up lame self reporting concussion symptoms. A year later unemployed .
I said when Pete looked to be a bit shaky get that guy if Pete leaves. Well Jax did and the man coached up a team to win a playoff game with a QB who threw 4 picks. I know a guy who did that too...........

When Siriano or what the hell gets his lombardi with Hurts=Wilson we can say the Eagles know what they are doing cause if he dont win it all at least once and they and all of us watch Pedersen develop Jax into a power the eagles are gonna look like a stupid organization that got lucky once in the last 40 years . LIke Dallas. Maybe Pederson can get a reunion. Good luck though Eagles aint happening this year.

Seattle? Playoffs 10 of 13, lombardi and 2 superbowl apperances, even playoffs with half the roster new. I think Ive talked myself into another year of this loser has been Carroll.

Pete isn't a loser. He's already won a Lombardi. Most coaches never do that. So he can't be a loser when he's already won.

Pete's legacy is set. Now he's adding to it.

Not sure why you're calling him a loser.

[obiken]

Pete isn't a loser. He's already won a Lombardi. Most coaches never do that. So he can't be a loser when he's already won.

Pete's legacy is set. Now he's adding to it.

Not sure why you're calling him a loser.

I think he was responding to someone who did. HT is a PC's kid! I am with NH, I sincerely thank Pete for his service, but I think he is done, the game has passed him by, happens to the best of them. Its time to move on..

[Old but Slow]

Nice post HT, and I agree with your view of Peterson.

About whether Pete goes or stays, I believe that it will be his decision. They won't fire him.

[RiverDog]

About whether Pete goes or stays, I believe that it will be his decision. They won't fire him.

Agreed. If they were going to fire him, they would have done it last season. Unless we do a complete face plant, these .500ish, one and done playoff teams will be enough for Pete to keep his job. It's certainly plenty to keep many of the posters on this board satisfied.

[Hawktawk]

Marty Schottenheimer was the most snakebit great coach in history. He was the Greg Norman of NFL HCs except Greg did get one major, should have had 4 or 5. Schottie last opportunity in the league ended with a 14-2 or 13-3 team in the AFC title game when some players on his Chargers team lost their cool in the final seconds and advanced the Pats to the super bowl.
Last I checked they haven't done a goddamn thing since. God rest his soul by the way.
He was a hell of a great coach, like Knox. Not all great coaches win one. Some franchises dont have one . Some in have never gone to one much less win one.

When we talk about guys living in the past maybe we're talking about Shula with not a single championship in Marinos amazing career. But what the hell have they won since?
Eagles and Reid? Yeah I suppose but hes got something Siriani doesn't have, A Lombardi. He's looking real good right now and maybe a reunion with his old team in the big one! wouldnt that be fun.

The weird thing with Peterson is he did something Vermeil and Reid and Rhodes and whoever the hell else went through there didn't. Win it all. won it all with NICK FOLES AT QB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Beat GOAT squared. Had Foles catch a pass on 4th down for a TD to shame Belichick. Next year we eliminated them with 50 year old Josh McCown after Wendz pulled up lame self reporting concussion symptoms. A year later unemployed .
I said when Pete looked to be a bit shaky get that guy if Pete leaves. Well Jax did and the man coached up a team to win a playoff game with a QB who threw 4 picks. I know a guy who did that too...........

When Siriano or what the hell gets his lombardi with Hurts=Wilson we can say the Eagles know what they are doing cause if he dont win it all at least once and they and all of us watch Pedersen develop Jax into a power the eagles are gonna look like a stupid organization that got lucky once in the last 40 years . LIke Dallas. Maybe Pederson can get a reunion. Good luck though Eagles aint happening this year.

Seattle? Playoffs 10 of 13, lombardi and 2 superbowl apperances, even playoffs with half the roster new. I think Ive talked myself into another year of this loser has been Carroll.

Pete isn't a loser. He's already won a Lombardi. Most coaches never do that. So he can't be a loser when he's already won.

Pete's legacy is set. Now he's adding to it.

Not sure why you're calling him a loser.[/quote]
Totally tongue in cheek to poke the people who think it’s past time to pull the ripcord . Obviously Pete’s a winner at every level . Class act too . Thankful . His time will come and whoever follows him will have huge shoes to fill . I don’t think it’s quite time .

[Hawktawk]

Nice post HT, and I agree with your view of Peterson.

About whether Pete goes or stays, I believe that it will be his decision. They won't fire him.

Thanks for the props . Disagree about Jodi and Pete though . I get this prevailing sense she’s perceived as some dingbat feeble old lady along for the ride . I think Pete’s success earned him another year after last year . I think his draft and this bonus playoff appearance got him another year . But ask the trailblazers with everyone in the FO plus a coach who was in the western conference finals the year before he got canned for “ a lack of postseason success “ if Jodi doesn’t care why does she attend every home game ? You underestimate her and the advisors she had with Vulcan . If you think these radical moves trading Russ and cutting Bobby weren’t signed off on by her you’re denying reality .

And I’ll paraphrase most if not many right on the forum . “ Jodi is a dummy that got swindled into trading Russ by the diabolical John and Pete “
Then it works well but oh well Jodi dont know a damn thing . The headless monster that is the Seahawks got lucky .
Pete kisses her ….in the media all the time . He gets it .

[Rambo2014]

You guys could always have the Ryan boys lol

They may just be the answer you all are looking for

[RiverDog]

And I’ll paraphrase most if not many right on the forum . “ Jodi is a dummy that got swindled into trading Russ by the diabolical John and Pete “
Then it works well but oh well Jodi dont know a damn thing . The headless monster that is the Seahawks got lucky .
Pete kisses her ….in the media all the time . He gets it .

Let's get the record straight. At the end of last season, I was of the opinion that one of them, ie Pete or Russell, had to go, that the marriage was over. My initial preference was for Pete to go, but after it became apparent that Pete was staying, I was on board with the Russell trade when it happened. And I was never critical of Jodi for making the trade or suggested that she got swindled.

So please, stop with this self-adulation. You're not the only one that was for trading Russell.

[NorthHawk]

HT lives in his own world some times making up things nobody said or implied.
Nobody thinks Jody is a dummy, nor does anyone think she runs the show like a female Jerry Jones.
Most likely she listens to all sides including the people from Vulcan along with JS and PC, but lately less of PC as he mentioned.
She then makes as informed a decision as she can given the information provided.

[RiverDog]

HT lives in his own world some times making up things nobody said or implied.
Nobody thinks Jody is a dummy, nor does anyone think she runs the show like a female Jerry Jones.
Most likely she listens to all sides including the people from Vulcan along with JS and PC, but lately less of PC as he mentioned.
She then makes as informed a decision as she can given the information provided.

Yeah, I'm not sure how he started that narrative, either. The worst I've ever said about Jody is that she's not a football person, something that she's said about herself. I haven't seen a poster in here say anything that could be interpreted as mean or corrosive. Her management style is a true mystery, even more so than her brother's, but if I had to guess, I'd say that she has 2-3 people at Vulcan that she trusts as close advisors.

[obiken]

Yeah, I'm not sure how he started that narrative, either. The worst I've ever said about Jody is that she's not a football person, something that she's said about herself. I haven't seen a poster in here say anything that could be interpreted as mean or corrosive. Her management style is a true mystery, even more so than her brother's, but if I had to guess, I'd say that she has 2-3 people at Vulcan that she trusts as close advisors.

The only problem with Jody is the ownership has been in limbo since PA's passing. I think she wants to dump the Blazers and keep the Hawks, I am not sure if she has that choice. According to John Canzano down here, he wanted everything sold off and put in the Allen foundation. I am not a lawyer and have not read the contract, so I dont know who is mistaken.

[Aseahawkfan]

Let's get the record straight. At the end of last season, I was of the opinion that one of them, ie Pete or Russell, had to go, that the marriage was over. My initial preference was for Pete to go, but after it became apparent that Pete was staying, I was on board with the Russell trade when it happened. And I was never critical of Jodi for making the trade or suggested that she got swindled.

So please, stop with this self-adulation. You're not the only one that was for trading Russell.

HT acts like we're out of the water. Water is still quite hot for Pete and John. Russ trade is looking good right now, but could quickly turn to look bad next year. Nothing is finished. A 9-8 season with a clean sweep by the division rival 49ers where you didn't even look competitive is not a confidence building season because we gotta square off against the 49ers again next year. They kicked us out of the playoffs like flies getting swatted off their asses. We got our asses soundly kicked. Geno didn't do much. Our entire team looked outclassed.

So as far as this being some kind of settled affair, John and Pete aren't safe yet. You can bank on that. They gotta show more improvement and an ability to compete against a division opponent like the 49ers. Right now we don't even look in the same league as them.

[TriCitySam]

So as far as this being some kind of settled affair, John and Pete aren't safe yet. You can bank on that. They gotta show more improvement and an ability to compete against a division opponent like the 49ers. Right now we don't even look in the same league as them.

So, you are suggesting John and Pete are in danger of not returning for the '23 season?

[obiken]

I just think 70 is 70, no matter how good of shape you are in, and we need to bump PC upstairs or out, and find new guy.

[Aseahawkfan]

So, you are suggesting John and Pete are in danger of not returning for the '23 season?

They are fine for '23. But another season of the 49es running roughshod over us and the defense looking like trash and if it were Paul Allen, I think they would be on the way to gone.

Now Jody I don't know. I have no idea what Jody will do. It's a big wild card with Jody Allen. Paul would have already put Pete and John on the clock even if he oked the Russ trade. I have zero doubt that Paul Allen would not be a happy camper. Only thing none of us can foresee is how Jody will operate.

I know the fans will not be happy with another 9 and 8 season where we get in the playoffs and get clowned by the 49ers. If we miss the playoffs next year because the Rams get turned around and I think the fan base will really be calling for heads.

That's why to me none of this is decided at all. Good for Pete and John. Year one of Russ trade looking good for them as far as a step in the right direction. But the Rams could turn around quick. The 49ers could maintain or get better. If we don't keep up and improve, the fan base won't be pleased at all. That will be status quo or worse.

This season is not what I call a success, but it was a step in in the right direction. Those steps have to keep going in the right direction.

[Hawktawk]

HT lives in his own world some times making up things nobody said or implied.
Nobody thinks Jody is a dummy, nor does anyone think she runs the show like a female Jerry Jones.
Most likely she listens to all sides including the people from Vulcan along with JS and PC, but lately less of PC as he mentioned.
She then makes as informed a decision as she can given the information provided.

Yeah, I'm not sure how he started that narrative, either. The worst I've ever said about Jody is that she's not a football person, something that she's said about herself. I haven't seen a poster in here say anything that could be interpreted as mean or corrosive. Her management style is a true mystery, even more so than her brother's, but if I had to guess, I'd say that she has 2-3 people at Vulcan that she trusts as close advisors.

MMMMMHHHHMMM....If your looking for the trash talker it aint us
As a completely tongue in cheek jokester as a real person I need to remember the internet is full of often humorless people. My hyperbolic description of the attitude towards Jodi and John and especially Pete from the disgruntled fans has been completely misunderstood. I have listened for years to people talk down Jodi on this forum based on unproven assumptions and I point out she already cleaned out the Trailblazers which is concrete information and get shut down because a 2 billion sports franchise is somehow different . Shes "not a football person" although she attends every home game. Sounds like "were building around Tavares" sort of Shes a football person now. "She lacks experience, knowledge." Cares more about the Trailblazers than the Hawks.

I've read all this here. As with Pete nobody says she's a dunce or idiot. they IMPLY IT. I brought her up because OBS said Pete calls his own shot on retirement. Really? . I saw a guy go 4-12 a year after winning the division and get shown the door after mostly successful years and the first SB appearance. I saw a guy go 1and done because he was an unproven lightweight and had proven nothing and most important PC was on speed dial.

I know there was a meeting mid season in 21 when they hit 3-8 and then after a pretty hot finish to go 7-10 Russ gets traded and the defensive staff gets canned, new scheme gets installed.I think it was real close. I think the finish powered by Pennys 6.7 YPC got Russ tradeable

The 2021 year and offseason was political, emotional. I had no idea what we should do after the 21 season. Not sure who to keep and who to get rid of. The finger thing having to waste 3 hours watching that I wanted both gone. I think the debate over whether Geno would have been a better option for a few more weeks is over now . I blamed pete for that
Not sure why everyone thinks Im a rubber stamp for Pete. I said after 21 I give him 1 year. Playoffs or fire him. Only because of the revelations of Russell's "camp" harassing's pete and John if Russ didn't get to throw enough passes in wins etc, the divisive force in the locker room( Oh ill get in trouble for that ) I thought Pete earned another chance.

I know lots of folks said it was backwards when it happened after the fact and right up till the kickoff game. Picked us to lose lose lose.
Haven't seen the prediction thread pop up.

I turned hard on Russ the more information came out ,Called out his little mealy mouthed statements disparaging pete and seattle. I stood up for Geno and Petes decision to start him and caught as John Schneider said the other day" a lot of crap all summer". Difference is he gets accolades and I get attacked .Horrible hater HT then the games started and the pundits and former teammates went off making me sound like the biggest Russel fan ever. I was when it was warranted. I had to buy a Metcalf because 3s were all the jerseys I had. But Jodi made a choice and she picked right .

I hearkened back to the body of Pete's career, to beastquake where I sat with my then 13 year old son and watched that incredible testament to Pete Carroll's ability to get a team up for a game after reading the negative sewage in the forum all week from people who thought draft position was more important than a playoff game. They got there when Pete coached up Charlie Whitehurst to win one of 2 starts in his CAREER.
That's the last time the used car salesman was part of my vocabulary. As I've said it was the day the Carroll era really began here.Zach is 27 now and told me a week ago that it was one of the best days of his life. Any fan who thinks that game was a waste needs to have their head examined.
You say you trust Paul. Why not trust Jodi? Do you think Paul would turn over his cherished Hawks to her if he didnt have faith in her to handle it?
I can think of a lot of owners far worse.

[RiverDog]

Since it seems that we've turned this thread into a Jody Allen thread, here's some excerpts from the first article that popped up in my search:

'Toxic’ Trail Blazers owner Jody Allen should sell team, say insiders

It’s the NBA’s biggest battle — only off the court. Nike founder Phil Knight has made a $2 billion bid to buy the Portland Trail Blazers from owner Jody Allen, who has been embroiled in allegations of sexual harassment and bad behavior. But Allen, 63, who is reportedly worth more than $20 billion, issued a defiant statement Tuesday, saying that she won’t sell the team her brother, Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen left her after his 2018 death.

Sources told The Post, there is growing disarray behind the scenes. A highly placed team staffer alleged that Jody’s “toxic behavior” — dating back to allegations of harassing bodyguards and violating US import laws — has spilled over into the management of the team.

In November, Blazers CEO/President Chris McGowan — who also served as CEO of Vulcan Sports & Entertainment, the company founded by the Allens — quit after nine years, allegedly because of frustration with Jody and Kolde. “The Trail Blazers are not as successful as they could have been. Jody is deferring everything to Bert, and he is not the right guy for the team,” Miller said.

Kolde was Paul Allen’s college roommate and friend. “He always had these issues that didn’t make sense. Paul would consult [Kolde], but [Paul] would make the decisions,” Miller added. “Jody’s letting Bert make all the decisions now.

According to Miller, Jody even refused to take Knight’s call when the Nike founder, who has an estimated fortune of $54.5 billion, put his initial offer together: “She did not take Phil’s call. She deferred him to Bert.”

She has also refused to talk to Blazers star player Damian Lillard, who reportedly has had issues with the way the team is being run, the team source claimed. “Damian wanted to sit down and have a conversation with Jody about the team and she didn’t return his call. Then he tried to email her. Eventually she just never responded and put him in touch with Bert,” the source alleged. “When you own a team, there are critical key decisions to make and you should be the one involved in making the decisions.”

For years, Jody and Paul had to face accusations of bad behavior. In 2013, the siblings settled with two of their former security chiefs who accused them of smuggling, bribery and sexual harassment.

A settlement was reached in November 2013 before the case went in front of a jury. At least 15 former members of the Allens’ personal security detail brought civil claims against them, with 13 eventually settling out of court. While under oath, Jody also declined to address allegations that she purchased tight, European-cut swim trunks for the men guarding her and requested they perform a “fashion show.”

https://nypost.com/2022/07/07/insiders- ... sell-team/

[Hawktawk]

Since it seems that we've turned this thread into a Jody Allen thread, here's some excerpts from the first article that popped up in my search:

'Toxic’ Trail Blazers owner Jody Allen should sell team, say insiders

It’s the NBA’s biggest battle — only off the court. Nike founder Phil Knight has made a $2 billion bid to buy the Portland Trail Blazers from owner Jody Allen, who has been embroiled in allegations of sexual harassment and bad behavior. But Allen, 63, who is reportedly worth more than $20 billion, issued a defiant statement Tuesday, saying that she won’t sell the team her brother, Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen left her after his 2018 death.

Sources told The Post, there is growing disarray behind the scenes. A highly placed team staffer alleged that Jody’s “toxic behavior” — dating back to allegations of harassing bodyguards and violating US import laws — has spilled over into the management of the team.

In November, Blazers CEO/President Chris McGowan — who also served as CEO of Vulcan Sports & Entertainment, the company founded by the Allens — quit after nine years, allegedly because of frustration with Jody and Kolde. “The Trail Blazers are not as successful as they could have been. Jody is deferring everything to Bert, and he is not the right guy for the team,” Miller said.

Kolde was Paul Allen’s college roommate and friend. “He always had these issues that didn’t make sense. Paul would consult [Kolde], but [Paul] would make the decisions,” Miller added. “Jody’s letting Bert make all the decisions now.

According to Miller, Jody even refused to take Knight’s call when the Nike founder, who has an estimated fortune of $54.5 billion, put his initial offer together: “She did not take Phil’s call. She deferred him to Bert.”

She has also refused to talk to Blazers star player Damian Lillard, who reportedly has had issues with the way the team is being run, the team source claimed. “Damian wanted to sit down and have a conversation with Jody about the team and she didn’t return his call. Then he tried to email her. Eventually she just never responded and put him in touch with Bert,” the source alleged. “When you own a team, there are critical key decisions to make and you should be the one involved in making the decisions.”

For years, Jody and Paul had to face accusations of bad behavior. In 2013, the siblings settled with two of their former security chiefs who accused them of smuggling, bribery and sexual harassment.

A settlement was reached in November 2013 before the case went in front of a jury. At least 15 former members of the Allens’ personal security detail brought civil claims against them, with 13 eventually settling out of court. While under oath, Jody also declined to address allegations that she purchased tight, European-cut swim trunks for the men guarding her and requested they perform a “fashion show.”

https://nypost.com/2022/07/07/insiders- ... sell-team/

Wow .
Of course it’s “insiders “ and disgruntled former employees as sources . But it’s seamy conduct for sure . I’d say with the house cleaning a year ago there’s bad blood . And the dirt comes out .

As for Phil Knight I have a good friend in Newport who helped build Rogue ale brewery and sat on the board at Nike . He’s well acquainted with Phil and he’s no choirboy either . Most billionaires have their quirks . This is a dispute between people with many billions of dollars . Not sure Lillards beef . I hadn’t heard it publicly . If there’s a word of caution about cleaning house they missed the postseason again afterwards . But nice hit piece .

I guess if making security guards prance in swimsuits is sue worthy how about maintaining a hotel suite and furnishing NDAs for the star qb to sexually assault women . Or ross paying to lose games . Or Snyder . Jerry Jones anyone ? Bob Irsay ? Bidwell?

Need some perspective I think .

There has not been a peep about this type of conduct with Seattle . So it’s confusing . I’m sure you will give her the benefit of the doubt you give the dudes accused of stuff like this .

[RiverDog]

Since it seems that we've turned this thread into a Jody Allen thread, here's some excerpts from the first article that popped up in my search:

'Toxic’ Trail Blazers owner Jody Allen should sell team, say insiders

It’s the NBA’s biggest battle — only off the court. Nike founder Phil Knight has made a $2 billion bid to buy the Portland Trail Blazers from owner Jody Allen, who has been embroiled in allegations of sexual harassment and bad behavior. But Allen, 63, who is reportedly worth more than $20 billion, issued a defiant statement Tuesday, saying that she won’t sell the team her brother, Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen left her after his 2018 death.

Sources told The Post, there is growing disarray behind the scenes. A highly placed team staffer alleged that Jody’s “toxic behavior” — dating back to allegations of harassing bodyguards and violating US import laws — has spilled over into the management of the team.

In November, Blazers CEO/President Chris McGowan — who also served as CEO of Vulcan Sports & Entertainment, the company founded by the Allens — quit after nine years, allegedly because of frustration with Jody and Kolde. “The Trail Blazers are not as successful as they could have been. Jody is deferring everything to Bert, and he is not the right guy for the team,” Miller said.

Kolde was Paul Allen’s college roommate and friend. “He always had these issues that didn’t make sense. Paul would consult [Kolde], but [Paul] would make the decisions,” Miller added. “Jody’s letting Bert make all the decisions now.

According to Miller, Jody even refused to take Knight’s call when the Nike founder, who has an estimated fortune of $54.5 billion, put his initial offer together: “She did not take Phil’s call. She deferred him to Bert.”

She has also refused to talk to Blazers star player Damian Lillard, who reportedly has had issues with the way the team is being run, the team source claimed. “Damian wanted to sit down and have a conversation with Jody about the team and she didn’t return his call. Then he tried to email her. Eventually she just never responded and put him in touch with Bert,” the source alleged. “When you own a team, there are critical key decisions to make and you should be the one involved in making the decisions.”

For years, Jody and Paul had to face accusations of bad behavior. In 2013, the siblings settled with two of their former security chiefs who accused them of smuggling, bribery and sexual harassment.

A settlement was reached in November 2013 before the case went in front of a jury. At least 15 former members of the Allens’ personal security detail brought civil claims against them, with 13 eventually settling out of court. While under oath, Jody also declined to address allegations that she purchased tight, European-cut swim trunks for the men guarding her and requested they perform a “fashion show.”

https://nypost.com/2022/07/07/insiders- ... sell-team/

Wow .
Of course it’s “insiders “ and disgruntled former employees as sources . But it’s seamy conduct for sure . I’d say with the house cleaning a year ago there’s bad blood . And the dirt comes out .

As for Phil Knight I have a good friend in Newport who helped build Rogue ale brewery and sat on the board at Nike . He’s well acquainted with Phil and he’s no choirboy either . Most billionaires have their quirks . This is a dispute between people with many billions of dollars . Not sure Lillards beef . I hadn’t heard it publicly . If there’s a word of caution about cleaning house they missed the postseason again afterwards . But nice hit piece .

I guess if making security guards prance in swimsuits is sue worthy how about maintaining a hotel suite and furnishing NDAs for the star qb to sexually assault women . Or ross paying to lose games . Or Snyder . Jerry Jones anyone ? Bob Irsay ? Bidwell?

Need some perspective I think .

There has not been a peep about this type of conduct with Seattle . So it’s confusing . I’m sure you will give her the benefit of the doubt you give the dudes accused of stuff like this .

What was it that I said that would cause you to think that I wouldn't give her the benefit of the doubt you give the dudes accused of stuff like this? Me thinks that you're making up things again.

There's no doubt that rich people present themselves as a huge target for extortion and blackmail, but 15 former employees from their security detail seems like a pretty high percentage. How many people do they employ as security guards/agents?

As far as what other owners have done, two wrongs don't make a right. It's absolutely no defense if these accusations are true. Besides, the sexual stuff wasn't what I was alluding to so much as it was the talk about Jody's deferring decisions to others and being detached from the overall management of the Blazers. It contradicts your opinion of her management style.

[Hawktawk]

'
There has not been a peep about this type of conduct with Seattle . So it’s confusing . I’m sure you will give her the benefit of the doubt you give the dudes accused of stuff like this .

What was it that I said that would cause you to think that I wouldn't give her the benefit of the doubt you give the dudes accused of stuff like this? Me thinks that you're making up things again.

There's no doubt that rich people present themselves as a huge target for extortion and blackmail, but 15 former employees from their security detail seems like a pretty high percentage. How many people do they employ as security guards/agents?

25 navy seals on the yacht Octopus.

As far as what other owners have done, two wrongs don't make a right. It's absolutely no defense if these accusations are true. Besides, the sexual stuff wasn't what I was alluding to so much as it was the talk about Jody's deferring decisions to others and being detached from the overall management of the Blazers. It contradicts your opinion of her management style.[/quote]
Its an account of Jodis conduct from second hand and unnamed sources in some part. I guess if Bert Kolde fired everyone without her maybe it's true shes detached. If hes her GM its not unusual for an owner of any business to use their GM as a conduit to employees. Its how my owner deals with it and it drives me nuts not having my own voice for the first time in 38 years, But hes allegedly worth 200 million and he can do what he wants. Like Jodi. Proves nothing.

As for Phil Knight calling her directly and her not taking it good for her. Hes attempting a hostile takeover and she wants nothing to do with him. All the blazers prove to me is she will fire someone. Seattle's been different as John speaks with her regularly according to Pete who doesn't. He said in 21 he comes to a meeting when she tells him to. As for all this other garbage from 10 years ago my point to you is how many times i've heard the words gold digger from you every time someone gets accused. Even watson I had it explained that these asian masseuses' ase pretty shady themselves, maybe some out for money.
How about if someone has 62 billion? would they be a target? Its all Im saying. Allens have quite a bit of latitude with me .

[RiverDog]

There's no doubt that rich people present themselves as a huge target for extortion and blackmail, but 15 former employees from their security detail seems like a pretty high percentage. How many people do they employ as security guards/agents?

25 navy seals on the yacht Octopus.

Where did you come up with that? The Octopus is indeed a very large yacht, but you're telling me that out of a crew of 63 and only 23 guests, that nearly half of the crew, one for each guest, would be Navy seals hired for security? I call BS.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/2 ... ible-yacht

As far as what other owners have done, two wrongs don't make a right. It's absolutely no defense if these accusations are true. Besides, the sexual stuff wasn't what I was alluding to so much as it was the talk about Jody's deferring decisions to others and being detached from the overall management of the Blazers. It contradicts your opinion of her management style.

Its an account of Jodis conduct from second hand and unnamed sources in some part. I guess if Bert Kolde fired everyone without her maybe it's true shes detached. If hes her GM its not unusual for an owner of any business to use their GM as a conduit to employees. Its how my owner deals with it and it drives me nuts not having my own voice for the first time in 38 years, But hes allegedly worth 200 million and he can do what he wants. Like Jodi. Proves nothing.

Of course, there is no proof, but the account isn't all based on hearsay and rumors. There are some very credible sources within her inner circle they've used, like the President of the Blazers. And there was a former President and CEO that resigned after an independent investigation that revealed a toxic and hostile workplace. Was he just a fall guy? I dunno. But there is, or was, something fishy going on within that organization.

As for Phil Knight calling her directly and her not taking it good for her. Hes attempting a hostile takeover and she wants nothing to do with him. All the blazers prove to me is she will fire someone. Seattle's been different as John speaks with her regularly according to Pete who doesn't. He said in 21 he comes to a meeting when she tells him to. As for all this other garbage from 10 years ago my point to you is how many times i've heard the words gold digger from you every time someone gets accused. Even watson I had it explained that these asian masseuses' ase pretty shady themselves, maybe some out for money.
How about if someone has 62 billion? would they be a target? Its all Im saying. Allens have quite a bit of latitude with me .

I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that Phil Knight attempted a hostile takeover. That term usually indicates a person or company bypassing a Board of Directors and making offers directly to individual shareholders, which wasn't the case here as the Blazers aren't publicly owned. The only way Knight could become an owner is if Jody decided to sell. In any event, it seems unusual that she wouldn't even speak with one of the richest men in the world and a respected local businessman about a potential sale of the franchise. Even if she wasn't interested, it would only be common courtesy to hear him out, if for nothing else, to get an idea about how much she could get for it in the event she does decide to sell.

I do echo your last sentence. The Allens have a lot of latitude with me, too, at least as it applies to Paul, may he RIP. But as I said earlier, these accounts of his sister's management style contradict what you're saying about her 'deep' involvement with the Seahawks.

[Aseahawkfan]

Wow .
Of course it’s “insiders “ and disgruntled former employees as sources . But it’s seamy conduct for sure . I’d say with the house cleaning a year ago there’s bad blood . And the dirt comes out .

As for Phil Knight I have a good friend in Newport who helped build Rogue ale brewery and sat on the board at Nike . He’s well acquainted with Phil and he’s no choirboy either . Most billionaires have their quirks . This is a dispute between people with many billions of dollars . Not sure Lillards beef . I hadn’t heard it publicly . If there’s a word of caution about cleaning house they missed the postseason again afterwards . But nice hit piece .

I guess if making security guards prance in swimsuits is sue worthy how about maintaining a hotel suite and furnishing NDAs for the star qb to sexually assault women . Or ross paying to lose games . Or Snyder . Jerry Jones anyone ? Bob Irsay ? Bidwell?

Need some perspective I think .

There has not been a peep about this type of conduct with Seattle . So it’s confusing . I’m sure you will give her the benefit of the doubt you give the dudes accused of stuff like this .

This is rich from a guy who never gives anyone he's against the benefit of the doubt. You buy into every story with any source once you start attacking someone or hating on them, now you're asking Riverdog to give the benefit of the doubt?

RD usually does. I've almost never seen you do the same, that's for sure. You start attacking and hating on someone, the source could be an imaginary ghost and you'd be using it as material to back your dislike of whoever you're attacking at a given time.

Never seen you give anyone the benefit of the doubt you dislike or hate.