Contract Talks with current players

[NorthHawk]

All it takes is one team, but most teams will want a young QB to be able to build on. Geno at 33 won't be perceived as such and there is always the perception of players who suddenly break out that it
isn't that he's suddenly good, but rather he had one good year. Add into that his stats started to recede near the end when teams began to figure out what we were doing and that our Offense was
suddenly a QB friendly Offense and the market might be quite small.

The teams that might be interested are those that think they are a QB away from having a real chance at a championship and those where the FO is on thin ice and want to make a splash or take a big gamble for the short term.
But even then, they will be cautious to not overpay.
But again, all it takes is one team.

[mykc14]

The problem with Graham wasn't his abilities, but it was how they used him. Trying to make a Pro Bowl WR into a blocking TE was just a waste of resources and it took them until the last year to figure it out.
Unger was a Pro Bowl Center. He was pretty darn good and the best we've had since the Holmgren years. Nobody since him has reached his standards and the FO hasn't even tried.

Yeah he wasn't a system fit... Just like Adams

[RiverDog]

The problem with Graham wasn't his abilities, but it was how they used him. Trying to make a Pro Bowl WR into a blocking TE was just a waste of resources and it took them until the last year to figure it out.

Unger was a Pro Bowl Center. He was pretty darn good and the best we've had since the Holmgren years. Nobody since him has reached his standards and the FO hasn't even tried.

Yeah he wasn't a system fit... Just like Adams

I was just going to compare Graham to Adams in that manner.

The thing about the Jimmy Graham trade was that he was a finesse player. I remember when the Hawks defense, after a playoff game vs. the Saints, told anyone that would listen how soft of a player Jimmy Graham was, and a few years later, we traded an All Pro Center and a first round draft pick for him then tried to turn him into an inline tight end in a run first offense.

[Hawktawk]

I wasn’t aware Unger was an all pro . He was a pro bowler . But I recall 48 which was Russell Wilson’s finest hour along with Percy Harvin as Unger was absolutely abused by pot roast , shoved in the backfield . Lynch was stuffed to the tune of 38 yards with 20 on 1 carry as a result . I said after the game the protection sucked and Russ should have at least shared MVP due to how he handled that game . I was fortified by Bill Polian on NFL network who said Unger had “ a big name “ while ripping his play in that game . I know a year later we got stuffed twice in short yardage in the first half and elected to throw the pass that shall live forever in our nightmares . Unger was real good and I hear he got a few more pro bowls playing in front of one of the all time greats in Brees .

It was Russels idea or KJ is lying . Which is it ? He says it created more division because the guy is soft . Just a wierd revelation about Russ and Jimmy . I was excited as hell when I heard about it and there were some damn good highlights too . I just never saw Unger as great , no hutch or Walt , not close . Jimmy blew his patella halfway through the year and Russ still broke the TD record I believe . Who knows what playoffs would have looked like that year with an offensive weapon like that. They freed him up from blocking enough to set team records while recovering from his knee the following year . I’ll take an owner that takes chances to get better over lots who don’t .

[Aseahawkfan]

I wasn’t aware Unger was an all pro . He was a pro bowler . But I recall 48 which was Russell Wilson’s finest hour along with Percy Harvin as Unger was absolutely abused by pot roast , shoved in the backfield . Lynch was stuffed to the tune of 38 yards with 20 on 1 carry as a result . I said after the game the protection sucked and Russ should have at least shared MVP due to how he handled that game . I was fortified by Bill Polian on NFL network who said Unger had “ a big name “ while ripping his play in that game . I know a year later we got stuffed twice in short yardage in the first half and elected to throw the pass that shall live forever in our nightmares . Unger was real good and I hear he got a few more pro bowls playing in front of one of the all time greats in Brees .

It was Russels idea or KJ is lying . Which is it ? He says it created more division because the guy is soft . Just a wierd revelation about Russ and Jimmy . I was excited as hell when I heard about it and there were some damn good highlights too . I just never saw Unger as great , no hutch or Walt , not close . Jimmy blew his patella halfway through the year and Russ still broke the TD record I believe . Who knows what playoffs would have looked like that year with an offensive weapon like that. They freed him up from blocking enough to set team records while recovering from his knee the following year . I’ll take an owner that takes chances to get better over lots who don’t .

I agree with you on this one. Unger's contributions are vastly over-rated. Unger was a good center, not great, but good. He had a couple of injury years. He only lasted ten years in the league. Jimmy Graham produced very good numbers for us. Not his fault the team had peaked and was on the downward trend. If he hadn't gotten injured that first year, I think his time here would have been more productive and they were already pretty good. We talk up how Geno threw more to the TEs this year, but none of them produced like Jimmy Graham.

A lot of folks bash Jimmy. But he set the record for TE yards in Seattle and TDs. The only reason his contribution looks less is he was hurt one year and we weren't competing in the playoffs because the defense was starting to fall apart.

I don't look back on the Graham for Unger trade as that bad myself. It didn't work out as well as we all would have liked, but it wasn't the Percy Harvin or Jamal Adams trade, not even close. It was a trade that in hindsight looks worse because of the downtrend the team had started to enter.

[RiverDog]

I wasn’t aware Unger was an all pro.

Then you haven't been paying attention. Unger was first team All Pro in 2012:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Unger

[Aseahawkfan]

Then you haven't been paying attention. Unger was first team All Pro in 2012:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Unger

Jimmy was the better player than Unger.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Graham

[RiverDog]

Then you haven't been paying attention. Unger was first team All Pro in 2012:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Unger

Jimmy was the better player than Unger.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Graham

But that's not the point. The point is that Graham did not fit our run first, low risk, don't put the defense in bad positions philosophy. He was a finesse player that didn't fit the character of our smash mouth team.

Plus trading Unger wasn't the worst part of the trade. It's that we never had a plan to replace him. Carroll/Cable used the guard and center positions to hide their high picks that they drafted as tackles but busted. The interior offensive line was the Seahawks' Rodney Dangerfield. And don't forget, it wasn't a player-for-player trade. It included a first round draft pick.

I'll admit that the Graham trade wasn't as bad as the Harvin and Adams trades, but we still ended up with the short end of the stick, as evidenced by the fact that once Graham's contract was up, we let him go. He played just 3 seasons for us, not very much mileage when you consider what we gave up to get him.

[Aseahawkfan]

But that's not the point. The point is that Graham did not fit our run first, low risk, don't put the defense in bad positions philosophy. He was a finesse player that didn't fit the character of our smash mouth team.

Plus trading Unger wasn't the worst part of the trade. It's that we never had a plan to replace him. Carroll/Cable used the guard and center positions to hide their high picks that they drafted as tackles but busted. The interior offensive line was the Seahawks' Rodney Dangerfield. And don't forget, it wasn't a player-for-player trade. It included a first round draft pick.

I'll admit that the Graham trade wasn't as bad as the Harvin and Adams trades, but we still ended up with the short end of the stick, as evidenced by the fact that once Graham's contract was up, we let him go. He played just 3 seasons for us, not very much mileage when you consider what we gave up to get him.

I have a different view than all of you. To me the team peaked, won the Super Bowl, went back and failed at the bid for Dynasty status, then started the fall from the peak due to the variety of reasons that happens from talent falling off, aging, injuries, bad luck, and other teams getting better.

I don't think there is any stopping it, at least I haven't seen many coaches or GMs stop it other Bill B with Tom Brady. Even Bill B without Tom Brady is looking like a mediocre coach unable to rebuild his team. And he's easily the best coach of the last twenty years.

The Graham trade still produced productive seasons. If our defense had been better, I think we still advance in the playoffs with Graham helping out. But the defense fell of a cliff. I don't think the Unger-Graham trade would have changed anything.

Like I said earlier and may still be the case, both Pete and Russ might be at the point where neither one of them is going back and their time is done.

You get the new coach not because Pete's a bad coach or making too many mistakes or what not, but because he's peaked and getting back up to the peak is real hard.

If Pete is back to Always Compete mode, then maybe he can do it. So the Russell trade may help him reset everything to go for the peak again. Next year is going to be real important whether that will happen or not. This team isn't going anywhere with a front seven that can't stop the run and force teams to pass. Right now this team lacks the talent to do that very thing. If they don't get it turned around and quick, I don't see us doing much more than what we did this year.

[RiverDog]

We must have a little different opinion of the tight end position. I'm not as concerned about their statistical production as I am their all around play, at least as far as a run first offense like ours is concerned. To give you an example, IMO George Kittle is a better tight end, at least for the type of game the Niners play, than is Travis Kelce even though Kelce has one heck of a lot more stats behind him. Kittle blocks like a bulldozer, and more than holds his own in the passing game. But if we turn it around, Kelce is the better fit for the more dynamic Chiefs offense than Kittle would be.

Although he was injured quite a bit, IMO the best tight end we've had, at least in the Pete Carroll era and for the type of offense we run, was Zach Miller. It's why I prefer Will Dissly over Noah Fant and Colby Parkinson as Dissly is the better blocker, especially given that our offensive line has been less than stellar during Pete's regime and needs help from the tight end position. We tried getting Graham to block as an inline tight end, but his heart was never in it. We were trying to pound a square peg into a round hole.

Plus, Graham wasn't used in the red zone as was one of the main justifications for trading for him until late in his stay with us. At the time of the trade, the consensus was that we needed to get Russell some more "weapons", especially in the red zone. He was underutilized.

So while Graham did give us a considerable amount of production over the short amount of time he was with us, more so than the Harvin and Adams trades, it wasn't near enough to offset what we gave up for him.

[Aseahawkfan]

We must have a little different opinion of the tight end position. I'm not as concerned about their statistical production as I am their all around play, at least as far as a run first offense like ours is concerned. To give you an example, IMO George Kittle is a better tight end, at least for the type of game the Niners play, than is Travis Kelce even though Kelce has one heck of a lot more stats behind him. Kittle blocks like a bulldozer, and more than holds his own in the passing game. But if we turn it around, Kelce is the better fit for the more dynamic Chiefs offense than Kittle would be.

Although he was injured quite a bit, IMO the best tight end we've had, at least in the Pete Carroll era and for the type of offense we run, was Zach Miller. It's why I prefer Will Dissly over Noah Fant and Colby Parkinson as Dissly is the better blocker, especially given that our offensive line has been less than stellar during Pete's regime and needs help from the tight end position. We tried getting Graham to block as an inline tight end, but his heart was never in it. We were trying to pound a square peg into a round hole.

Plus, Graham wasn't used in the red zone as was one of the main justifications for trading for him until late in his stay with us. At the time of the trade, the consensus was that we needed to get Russell some more "weapons", especially in the red zone. He was underutilized.

So while Graham did give us a considerable amount of production over the short amount of time he was with us, more so than the Harvin and Adams trades, it wasn't near enough to offset what we gave up for him.

That is an unknown, so not sure how you state it with surety. Unger wasn't as productive as Graham for one. We gave up one late first round pick? You telling me Jimmy wasn't worth a late first round pick? I think he was. He still set the bar for yards and TDs for a TE in Seattle. We traded a center and a late 1st round pick for a TE that set the yards and TD production total for Seattle.

The difference between us is some here see Jimmy as the reason why we didn't get better and I don't see it that way. I see it more as our peak was done and our defense fell apart. The defense was the centerpiece of Pete's team, not the offense. It was the elite unit that made us a perennial Super Bowl contender. The offense was good enough with a high quality power run game and a elite QB who could take almost any receiver and gain yards and points. He did that with Jimmy.

I have zero problems with the Jimmy trade. Sure, he wasn't perfect for Seattle because he was a weak run blocker. He was hardly the reason we were losing or didn't advance in the playoffs. He was a highly productive TE that I think was worth Unger (who never impressed me as I think most of the O-line owe their pro bowls to Lynch who made below average O-line look viable) and some late first round pick we have no idea how they would have turned out.

I don't put the Jimmy trade very high on the list of Pete mistakes at all. I think the compensation was very reasonable for Jimmy's production. I was absolutely fine with it. I don't blame Jimmy at all or that trade for our playoff issues. If the defense had not fallen off at that point, the Jimmy trade would have worked out fine.

[RiverDog]

I don't blame Jimmy Graham for our failures, but you certainly can't credit him with a lot of the team's success either because we weren't very successful, at least not compared to the LOB days, never getting past the divisional round of the playoffs. The fact that we didn't resign him when his contract was up speaks volumes. He was here just 3 years. If a first round draft pick spent just 3 years with the team, he'd be considered a bust.

I'll leave it at that. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Hawktawk]

3 years is kinda long for some players . Unger won’t make the hall . It’s overblown . Far from a terrible trade Russ lobbied for anyway . Unger was better with the saints . Watch some super bowl 48 footage to see how great our line including Unger especially Unger actually played .

It’s not Grahams fault we didn’t win more he is still the most productive single season tight end in our history . I don’t know the totals on TDs but he caught quite a few balls in the red zone . I wonder how Brady would do with him ?

He beat us with Green Bay and Arod . 4th and 11 near midfield and a few minutes left with a chance to take the lead in the 2019 divisional in Green Bay . All world #3, DK and Lockett , no running backs left . Defense gassed after being in a 20-0 hole . From recall so I may be off but sounds about right .

Fat guy on couch with beer goggles firmly attached says “ go for it you’re not getting the ball back if you punt . “ we punt and they get to 3rd and 9 and Graham lays out and catches it right at the sticks . Replay said he had it . Kneel on the ball and GB went and got destroyed in SF. The team we had lost to by 6 “ a few weeks earlier to lose the division and HFA.

We were competetive . That’s not 8 years ago . But maybe Graham going further after leaving says more about us than him .

[Aseahawkfan]

I don't blame Jimmy Graham for our failures, but you certainly can't credit him with a lot of the team's success either because we weren't very successful, at least not compared to the LOB days, never getting past the divisional round of the playoffs. The fact that we didn't resign him when his contract was up speaks volumes. He was here just 3 years. If a first round draft pick spent just 3 years with the team, he'd be considered a bust.

I'll leave it at that. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

We can disagree, but by all measurements of value it was a good risk trade. I don't mind trades of that kind at all. We traded an above average center and a 1st round pick for one of the best TEs in the league who was not known to have off the field issues or anything other wanting to be paid like a receiver. I don't mind these kinds of trades and they do not hurt the team long-term at all. You were unlikely to find a better TE with the 1st round pick you gave up and Unger was a center that last ten years in the league with two incomplete years due to injury performing at an above average level.

I don't think any objective analyst would consider that a bad trade.

Now the Harvin and Adams trade, I think most objective analysts would see the huge red flags with those trades. The off the field issues with Harvin and the value issue with Adams. But the Graham trade was an intelligent risk that didn't work out as well as you wanted, but didn't cost the team long-term and at the time of the trade was a good value for one of the best TEs in the league.

It comes down to the risk-reward and the Graham trade was an intelligent risk-reward trade. The Harvin and Adams trades were not.

You seem to saying the Graham trade was a bad trade and that we disagree on. I don't think it was bad and I don't think it hurt the team at all. I think you seem to agree it wasn't nearly as bad as the Harvin and Adams trades.

[Hawktawk]

I wasn’t aware Unger was an all pro.

Then you haven't been paying attention. Unger was first team All Pro in 2012:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Unger[/quote]
No I started paying attention in 13 a lot more . I stand corrected . I think he had 3 in NO but whatever. As Bill Polian said “big name “

if he was an all pro every year ok . I just see it as a team that really counted on Russels legs to be able to feed a lot of other mouths . As I’ve said Russ was asking for it or KJ is lying and I agree with Russ . It’s not known what would have happened that first year as Graham was injured near the end of a monster game leaping to catch a TD and snapping his
Patella . It was remarkable he was as good the following year as he was . Injuries suck .

[obiken]

No I started paying attention in 13 a lot more . I stand corrected . I think he had 3 in NO but whatever. As Bill Polian said “big name “

if he was an all pro every year ok . I just see it as a team that really counted on Russels legs to be able to feed a lot of other mouths . As I’ve said Russ was asking for it or KJ is lying and I agree with Russ . It’s not known what would have happened that first year as Graham was injured near the end of a monster game leaping to catch a TD and snapping his
Patella . It was remarkable he was as good the following year as he was . Injuries suck .

He was the best Center we ever had, get past it HT! Pete traded him off for a Marshmallow TE that couldn't block!

[RiverDog]

No I started paying attention in 13 a lot more . I stand corrected . I think he had 3 in NO but whatever. As Bill Polian said “big name “

if he was an all pro every year ok . I just see it as a team that really counted on Russels legs to be able to feed a lot of other mouths . As I’ve said Russ was asking for it or KJ is lying and I agree with Russ . It’s not known what would have happened that first year as Graham was injured near the end of a monster game leaping to catch a TD and snapping his
Patella . It was remarkable he was as good the following year as he was . Injuries suck .

He was the best Center we ever had, get past it HT! Pete traded him off for a Marshmallow TE that couldn't block!

This is true. Although I doubt that Max Unger will ever make the Ring of Honor, I can't think of another Seahawk center that was first team All Pro. Robbie Tobeck is the only center that I can think of that would even be in the conversation.

[Hawktawk]

No I started paying attention in 13 a lot more . I stand corrected . I think he had 3 in NO but whatever. As Bill Polian said “big name “

if he was an all pro every year ok . I just see it as a team that really counted on Russels legs to be able to feed a lot of other mouths . As I’ve said Russ was asking for it or KJ is lying and I agree with Russ . It’s not known what would have happened that first year as Graham was injured near the end of a monster game leaping to catch a TD and snapping his
Patella . It was remarkable he was as good the following year as he was . Injuries suck .

[quote="obiken"]He was the best Center we ever had, get past it HT! Pete traded him off for a Marshmallow TE that couldn't block![/quote


He wasn't any better than Tobeck who blocked for a guy with 29 TDs."bigger name" I can go back a ways further and we had some good guys.

Fact. We won 48 in spite of him. He got ate alive leading to Polians "big name " comments.

And in all the blaming of Darrell Bevell and Pete for the loss in 49 how many have rewatched the game?

I did. We were stuffed in 3rd and short with Beast at least twice in the first half leading to punts, maybe 3 as Vince Wilfork and the heavy package collapsed our interior. Gotta wonder if it figured into the decision they made at the end. Still a stupid play design but various other mistakes had allowed the Pats to substitute their heavy package. Maybe no coincidence the trade happened.

Long point longer it was never a dominant line with him, we have had 1 for a few years in our history under Holmgren.
Russ wanted Graham over him Obi according to KJ Wright and I've heard no denials from anyone. Please address that. Is KJ lying? if not Russ is why Unger is gone. And I agreed with Russ on that.

Not even a bad trade IMO. Many other factors were more important to our lack of postseason success. Like no running backs left every year.

[NorthHawk]

But they had a serious downgrade at that position and haven't addressed it properly since.
That's coming up to 7 years and numerous Pro Bowl and All Pro Centers that were bypassed by this FO. And the Guards? Mostly castoffs from other teams or failed Tackles with a few exceptions.

[Hawktawk]

But they had a serious downgrade at that position and haven't addressed it properly since.
That's coming up to 7 years and numerous Pro Bowl and All Pro Centers that were bypassed by this FO. And the Guards? Mostly castoffs from other teams or failed Tackles with a few exceptions.

You’re getting no argument from me we need a center upgrade . It’s the qb of the o line and beyond that we lack power and nastiness in the interior line in general . Guys like Penny and Walker mask the lack of push with their talent .
My disagreement if it’s even that is whether it made sense to get Jimmy Graham at the expense of a really good not great center . I say it did . Our playoff push that year would have been different with him healthy . I’d say the inability to replace him is a separate issue. Nobody including Pete is denying we have a talent deficit and center is as big a problem as anything .

[Aseahawkfan]

You’re getting no argument from me we need a center upgrade . It’s the qb of the o line and beyond that we lack power and nastiness in the interior line in general . Guys like Penny and Walker mask the lack of push with their talent .
My disagreement if it’s even that is whether it made sense to get Jimmy Graham at the expense of a really good not great center . I say it did . Our playoff push that year would have been different with him healthy . I’d say the inability to replace him is a separate issue. Nobody including Pete is denying we have a talent deficit and center is as big a problem as anything .

I don't agree. If we find an upgrade, great. But the offense wasn't the problem last year. Defense was the problem. Our offense was 13th in yards and 9th in points. Our RB was the best rookie RB in the league. This is more of a certain group of posters have a bias towards offense and can't see that the offense was absolutely fine last year without a center. It was fine when Unger was gone. You can have a high performing offense with an adequate center. O-line in the salary cap era is where you have to learn to spend light and get by.

O-line ratings are BS. They are almost all based on QB and RB production. We had mostly crappy O-lines that were made to look better by players like Russ and Marshawn along with a defense that kept getting the ball back quick.

Now our defense was terrible last year. 26th in Yards allowed. 13th passing yards allowed (Good for you secondary). 30th in rush yards allowed. 30th! D-line and backers you are terrible. 25th in points allowed.

The entire focus of this draft should be on defense and the front seven. They were embarrassingly bad. That is what is holding us back.

Sure, be nice to pick up a quality guard or center. But we would have won quite a few more games if the defensive front seven were even middle of the pack good.

[NorthHawk]

There are too many holes to fill to only concentrate only on Defense.
Like last year take best talent available at positions of need regardless of whether it's O or D.
I don't know who are going to be FA's this year along the DL, but there are usually some that become available - or maybe pull a rabbit out of the hat and trade for someone who another team either
can't afford to re-sign or doesn't fit a new scheme if they are getting a new DC. We could then draft a DL and he would have a chance to develop without being considered the savior of the DL and
all of the expectations that go with that.

[Hawktawk]

Heard on Brock and Salk this AM that on Saturday Geno had re-tweeted from last July “men lie and women lie but numbers don’t lie.” He tweeted it again yesterday and repeated “ numbers “

With the deal for Meyers and these re tweets from his contentious process signing his 3.5 million deal it looks like they made an offer and it’s not impressive . I don’t think tweeting is the best way to go . It sounds like a rocky start .

[RiverDog]

Heard on Brock and Salk this AM that on Saturday Geno had re-tweeted from last July “men lie and women lie but numbers don’t lie.” He tweeted it again yesterday and repeated “ numbers “

With the deal for Meyers and these re tweets from his contentious process signing his 3.5 million deal it looks like they made an offer and it’s not impressive . I don’t think tweeting is the best way to go . It sounds like a rocky start .

There's still two months before the beginning of free agency, so there's no urgency to get a deal done with Geno or any of our other free agents. Would it be all that surprising if we threw out a lowball offer?

[mykc14]

Heard on Brock and Salk this AM that on Saturday Geno had re-tweeted from last July “men lie and women lie but numbers don’t lie.” He tweeted it again yesterday and repeated “ numbers “

With the deal for Meyers and these re tweets from his contentious process signing his 3.5 million deal it looks like they made an offer and it’s not impressive . I don’t think tweeting is the best way to go . It sounds like a rocky start .

Geno isn't going to sign here for less than 30 mil... If that is our ceiling he will test the FA market.

[Hawktawk]

I wonder how low an offer . I hope it wasn’t insulting . If I’ve seen anything out of Geno he’s got a sense of self worth and a chip on his shoulder . He was tweeting last year and signed but it was 7 million in the end , not 30. I don’t know if he will take less but these suggestions of 15 or 20 with as many teams hurting at the position might make it impossible to get a bit of a hometown discount later . Who knows . At least it should be settled by the draft . Fingers crossed Lock can actually play at this point , or a top 5 rook. Or?

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

This season should have shown Geno what he can and can't achieve without proper talent around him. I think he definitely played himself into to a $30 million dollar per year contract; he just shouldn't expect a team like Seattle to be able to pony up for that and put a competitive team around him. No hate towards him for getting as much as he can, but I'm okay with letting him walk.

[mykc14]

I wonder how low an offer . I hope it wasn’t insulting . If I’ve seen anything out of Geno he’s got a sense of self worth and a chip on his shoulder . He was tweeting last year and signed but it was 7 million in the end , not 30. I don’t know if he will take less but these suggestions of 15 or 20 with as many teams hurting at the position might make it impossible to get a bit of a hometown discount later . Who knows . At least it should be settled by the draft . Fingers crossed Lock can actually play at this point , or a top 5 rook. Or?

That's the difficulty. With QB's making 50 mil/year Geno in the low 30's really is decent price. I think the problem for the Hawks is that they are actually trying to move away from the expensive QB model and have a rebuild in mind centered around a lower-priced option at QB. The Hawks still need two years to clear themselves of some bad contracts and I don't think they are prepared to have a high priced QB. They can adjust and have a low cap hit for a year or two, but at the end of the day they will still have to pay that bill. As far as the draft goes Ideally we would be able to draft a game changing DT or DE/OLB but if that's not there I wouldn't mind us drafting a QB. At the end of the day it is a bit of crap shoot. I fell like JS has as a good idea about the QB position given his drafting of RW and connection to both Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen. As far as DT/DE goes his results are a bit less impressive.

[Hawktawk]

Honestly I don’t know what is best and that’s why they make the big money in the FO. We had success with a qb on his rookie deal . When we had to pay everyone it’s been tough . I can see letting Geno walk for 30 per I just hope we don’t wind up playing him in a game we need someday . I still have a hunch it’s lock , Pete made clear he’s impressed with him in practice and wants to sign him as well . Lock did some dumb stuff in preseason for sure . But there was that one throw falling back defense in his face flick of the wrist perfect over the top bomb 50 yards . The man has a dynamic arm if they clean up the mistakes .
Oh and by the way Josh Allen and Matt Ryan shared the league lead in turnovers with 18. A year ago Stafford had 17 picks and 4 were pick 6es . Just sayin .

[Aseahawkfan]

There are too many holes to fill to only concentrate only on Defense.
Like last year take best talent available at positions of need regardless of whether it's O or D.
I don't know who are going to be FA's this year along the DL, but there are usually some that become available - or maybe pull a rabbit out of the hat and trade for someone who another team either
can't afford to re-sign or doesn't fit a new scheme if they are getting a new DC. We could then draft a DL and he would have a chance to develop without being considered the savior of the DL and
all of the expectations that go with that.

9th in yards and 13th in points. No there are not too many holes on offense.

Boost the defense so we get the ball back more and the offense will be fine.

[NorthHawk]

Well, you don't draft a player who you rated 40 players later and bypass a player you ranked at your draft position or earlier in a position of need.
It's a big part of what got us into this mess.

Last year, much like their first draft or two they selected players as the draft fell to them. They didn't force anything and it was a real good event.
They should do the same again this year.

[Old but Slow]

Whoo boy, where do I begin?

First of all, I would not offer Geno more than $15-18m per. There are almost no teams that will be in a need of a guy like him, and if there is, I would let him go. Consider, for those who would consider $30m a the number, the team could sign 2 near pro bowl level defensive tackles from free agency for that amount of money. And we have a limited budget. A defensive player such as Carter at #5 would probably take 2 years to become really effective, but a free agent tackle or two could help from the first.

Geno is a decent QB, but I can not see him winning a Super Bowl, and at his age, he is not the future. He is not proven. He was excellent for about 9 games, average for another couple, and poor for a couple more. PFF made a report about turnover potential plays, that lists plays that might have been turnovers except for dropped interceptions, offensive recoveries of fumbles, and so forth. For the top 10 passers those kind of plays led to turnovers %80 of the time, while Geno had less than %50 turnovers. If he had the league average, he would have had about 25 turnovers. Luck. He is accurate, has a strong arm, understands the system, and has decent legs, but he is a little hesitant at times, and he does not do well on 3d downs and in the red zone. Good, but not great.

With the need to sign current players, add a top free agent or 3, and get into a position to contend in a couple of years, it is no time to put big money into a QB who is a stopgap.

[RiverDog]

PFF made a report about turnover potential plays, that lists plays that might have been turnovers except for dropped interceptions, offensive recoveries of fumbles, and so forth. For the top 10 passers those kind of plays led to turnovers %80 of the time, while Geno had less than %50 turnovers. If he had the league average, he would have had about 25 turnovers. Luck.

I was wondering if someone had done that kind of research as it sure seemed to me that Geno was the beneficiary of a heck of a lot of dropped interceptions, especially in the 2nd half of the season when he started trying to force balls into some very tight windows.

[obiken]

Geno isn't going to sign here for less than 30 mil... If that is our ceiling he will test the FA market.

Then you cut him loose! No way we are going to compete with the Niners or the Eagles who are stacked and paying peanuts to their QB, while paying over 30 million to a Geno Smith type. There are a lot of teams that will get bounced from the playoffs this year just like every year, Minn, Seattle, and Dallas, are just 3 of them.

[obiken]

Honestly I don’t know what is best and that’s why they make the big money in the FO. We had success with a qb on his rookie deal . When we had to pay everyone it’s been tough . I can see letting Geno walk for 30 year per.

Finally, we agree on something!!

[NorthHawk]

PFF made a report about turnover potential plays, that lists plays that might have been turnovers except for dropped interceptions, offensive recoveries of fumbles, and so forth. For the top 10 passers those kind of plays led to turnovers %80 of the time, while Geno had less than %50 turnovers.

I was wondering if someone had done that kind of research as it sure seemed to me that Geno was the beneficiary of a heck of a lot of dropped interceptions, especially in the 2nd half of the season when he started trying to force balls into some very tight windows.

I had heard earlier in the year that Geno was the beneficiary of the most dropped Interceptions in the league by far. I didn't know where they got that info, but PFF is a good source for some different stats.
As teams got used to what we are doing, his productivity leveled out to the norm for QBs. It's part of the reason I'm hesitant to have us re-sign him at a high $ figure.

[Hawktawk]

I believe Geno had 13 turnovers total. Josh Allen had 18.

As for dropping interceptions stats fine . He got stuck with 3 by officials decisions and replay calls as well. We should have 3 on Purdy over last 2 games and he’s all the rage .

I think it was PFF that was quoted on this awesome dropped pick stat .

They also have Geno as the #2 overall Free Agent this year with a DVOA of 3.1 wins over mean .

A year ago the same people thought we should placate a guy who went 6-9 losing to 3 backups, making plain his desire to leave . Checking out . You have to pay him!
fire Pete for mis using him!

Now we want to throw away a guy with several team records . Far exceeded expectation with terrible line play second half of the season . 46 sacks . Terrible D shortening games and robbing possessions. No run game several games . His teammates love him . That’s a locker room issue . Both DK and Tyler have made clear they want him back. Does that matter ?

.
Ok . What’s the plan then ? I think it’s Lock but nobody likes that . Draft a guy and hope he’s one of the 10% of first round guys who have won 8 games as a rookie ?


What’s the plan other than Geno write back ? Average . Worthless at what the going rate is.
I don’t blame him if he’s angry how the organization and seemingly lots of fans view him. I’d be .
Careful what you wish for . Wyman said it well as a man who wasn’t a Geno man who is now. “ it’s a lot easier to get worse then better at qb ..
.

[Aseahawkfan]

If the 49ers win the Super Bowl with Brock Purdy, I say take a chance in the draft.

[RiverDog]

What’s the plan other than Geno write back ? Average . Worthless at what the going rate is.
I don’t blame him if he’s angry how the organization and seemingly lots of fans view him. I’d be .
Careful what you wish for . Wyman said it well as a man who wasn’t a Geno man who is now. “ it’s a lot easier to get worse then better at qb ..
.

There are other options at quarterback out there besides Geno, including Derrick Carr, Baker Mayfield, Jimmy G., etc. We can debate whether or not those guys are upgrades, but we don't necessarily need an upgrade at QB to be competitive. And we can draft a quarterback. We'll have an opportunity to get one of the top 3 in this year's class.

The other thing is how one views our team. My personal opinion is that this roster is NOT just a player or two away from being SB competitive. We have a lot of holes to fill on defense, a few less on offense. Bottom line is that we are by no means desperate to resign Geno, and if he doesn't come in at where we have him budgeted at, then let him walk.

As far as Geno being upset at his treatment by the fans, I doubt seriously that he is. He's played in New York, where the media and fans are ten times as demanding as us marshmallows out here in south Alaska. He knows the drill.

[Hawktawk]

If the 49ers win the Super Bowl with Brock Purdy, I say take a chance in the draft.

Fair position