Black Monday

[RiverDog]

We've had the first 'official' Black Monday casualty. The Texans fired Lovie Smith, the 2nd year in a row they've fired their HC after just one season. The next head to roll is likely Kliff Kingsbury, HC of the Cards. There's also increasing speculation that Sean McVay will step down as the Rams' HC. On Good Morning Football, there was talk that McVay might just take a year's leave of absence, which would really be strange.

The list has to include HC's that were fired earlier in the season, like the Broncos Nathanial Hackett, the Colts Frank Reich, and the Panthers' Matt Rhule.

After the Cowboys did a complete and embarrassing faceplant yesterday, if they lose to the Bucs next Sunday, I wouldn't be surprised if Jerry Jones fires Mike McCarthy.

There had been rumors that Josh McDaniel of the Raiders might be in trouble, but owner Mark Davis said recently that they weren't making any changes.

Thoughts?

[TriCitySam]

Kingsbury is gone as well, and GM Steve Keim was on leave (alcohol) and now out as GM. What a mess: gave Kingsbury, GM Steve Keim and Murry extensions with guaranteed $. Rams aren't in much better shape with an injured Stafford and no draft capital, and we don't need to discuss the Broncos. Grateful for the steady hands of JS and PC.

p.s. there is a new T-shirt for sale

[RiverDog]

Another rumor about the Bronco's HC vacancy:

The Broncos have officially put in requests to interview DeMeco Ryans, Dan Quinn, Jim Harbaugh, Sean Payton and Raheem Morris for their vacant head coaching position, per source.

https://twitter.com/jjones9/status/1612482091156967425

[NorthHawk]

I think most of the teams that underperformed are at least considering making changes.
Some of those teams were expected to be going through growing pains like Chicago and Houston, but the teams near the bottom that were expected to at least contend
might be eyeing changes, too. The Titans need a new GM, but will they keep Vrabel? Do the Jets have an itchy trigger finger? They haven't been known to be a very patient Football club.
There was talk earlier that if the Dolphins didn't make the playoffs they could be looking for a new HC and the owner really wanted Payton before they signed McDaniel so that may be in play
now that he's officially on the market. McVay is said to be getting burned out and might take a year or more off, so that team might also be in play.
It's going to be an interesting few weeks.

[Hawktawk]

If McVeigh takes a sabbatical he’s the modern day vermeil. More successful but burnt out . Mike Vrabel is a fine coach and I’d be stunned if he was fired . McDaniels getting another year . That whole AZ thing is a dumpster fire . Who wants it . Not sure what is gonna happen with Denver . It’s said money can’t buy happiness but if you’re going to be unhappy might as well be rich . Wilson looked a little more like the guy they wanted so who knows what a name coach might think of trying to work with him . They have a long list , clearly don’t know what they want .

[obiken]

Another rumor about the Bronco's HC vacancy:

The Broncos have officially put in requests to interview DeMeco Ryans, Dan Quinn, Jim Harbaugh, Sean Payton and Raheem Morris for their vacant head coaching position, per source.

https://twitter.com/jjones9/status/1612482091156967425

Geez River, Black Monday isnt the word for it! They are dropping like flies!!

[RiverDog]

Geez River, Black Monday isnt the word for it! They are dropping like flies!!

The Monday following the final regular season game has had the moniker "Black Monday" for quite some time.

However, one thing that has changed is all the coaches that get the axe before the regular season ends. This season, 3 of them bit the dust before Christmas. It used to be that nearly all of them got the axe on Black Monday.

[trents]

Kingsbury is gone as well, and GM Steve Keim was on leave (alcohol) and now out as GM. What a mess: gave Kingsbury, GM Steve Keim and Murry extensions with guaranteed $. Rams aren't in much better shape with an injured Stafford and no draft capital, and we don't need to discuss the Broncos. Grateful for the steady hands of JS and PC.

That's actually an astute observation. But all the same, that does not mean that the Seahawks have performed up to their potential in recent years.

Michael Irvin stated on ESPN this morning that Lovie Smith was not given a fair chance and got a quicker hook than he would have if he was white. One thing is for sure, if there was a ball club that needed a steady hand, it is Houston. That mess will not be straightened out quickly. Four different coaches in four years. I wouldn't touch that one with a ten foot pole under the current ownership and management.

[RiverDog]

Kingsbury is gone as well, and GM Steve Keim was on leave (alcohol) and now out as GM. What a mess: gave Kingsbury, GM Steve Keim and Murry extensions with guaranteed $. Rams aren't in much better shape with an injured Stafford and no draft capital, and we don't need to discuss the Broncos. Grateful for the steady hands of JS and PC.

That's actually an astute observation. But all the same, that does not mean that the Seahawks have performed up to their potential in recent years.

Michael Irvin stated on ESPN this morning that Lovie Smith was not given a fair chance and got a quicker hook than he would have if he was white. One thing is for sure, if there was a ball club that needed a steady hand, it is Houston. That mess will not be straightened out quickly. Four different coaches in four years. I wouldn't touch that one with a ten foot pole under the current ownership and management.

I get tired of the race card getting played when there's no evidence of discrimination. If there's a pattern, fine, then bring it up and let's air it out. But all Irvin is doing is raising suspicions and fostering mistrust, making things worse. Owners will be afraid to hire blacks because they feel they'll get accused of racism if they let them go.

[Aseahawkfan]

Riverdog, who do you think Denver will get as their new HC?

[Hawktawk]

Houston fired David Culley after 1 year just a year ago . He was also an African American . He was the one who got screwed far worse than Lovie . Got the whole Deshawn Watson stink bomb . He had Davis Mills playing great at years end . I know there were cries of racism at the time . To me it’s just an incompetent sleazy organization. After this report of the team providing a hotel and NDAs to Watson to molest women nobody with any knowledge of that should ever work in the league . Damn near as sleazy as the Commanders. Someone will take it but I’d say it’s the least desirable opening

[Aseahawkfan]

Houston fired David Culley after 1 year just a year ago . He was also an African American . He was the one who got screwed far worse than Lovie . Got the whole Deshawn Watson stink bomb . He had Davis Mills playing great at years end . I know there were cries of racism at the time . To me it’s just an incompetent sleazy organization. After this report of the team providing a hotel and NDAs to Watson to molest women nobody with any knowledge of that should ever work in the league . Damn near as sleazy as the Commanders. Someone will take it but I’d say it’s the least desirable opening

Houston is a dumpster fire.

[TriCitySam]

I don't buy the negativity - as I've said before, I'll take a consistent competitive team every single. Playoffs 10 of 13 seasons is very rare air.

[RiverDog]

Houston fired David Culley after 1 year just a year ago . He was also an African American . He was the one who got screwed far worse than Lovie . Got the whole Deshawn Watson stink bomb . He had Davis Mills playing great at years end . I know there were cries of racism at the time . To me it’s just an incompetent sleazy organization. After this report of the team providing a hotel and NDAs to Watson to molest women nobody with any knowledge of that should ever work in the league . Damn near as sleazy as the Commanders. Someone will take it but I’d say it’s the least desirable opening

I agree with everything except for it being the least desirable. Houston has the #2 and #12 overall picks, have the 7th most cap space, plus they play in a weak division with the Titans, Colts, and Jags. They have the potential to get healthy quickly, the same way that Jacksonville did. I'd rank them ahead of the Broncos. The only thing that would make Denver's job more desirable is money.

[RiverDog]

Riverdog, who do you think Denver will get as their new HC?

I don't think it will be Payton or Hairball. IMO Hairball goes to the Colts. There's some history for him as he used to play there and it's less than a 5 hour drive from his current home in Michigan. The problem for them is that the other 3 guys they have on their wish list, ie Dan Quinn, Raheem Morris, and DeMeco Ryans, are defensive coaches, and if one of the stipulations is that they find somebody that can 'fix' Russell, Payton and Hairball would be better suited.

So to answer your question: Hell if I know.

[RiverDog]

I don't buy the negativity - as I've said before, I'll take a consistent competitive team every single. Playoffs 10 of 13 seasons is very rare air.

What negativity? Who said anything about Pete?

[Aseahawkfan]

I don't think it will be Payton or Hairball. IMO Hairball goes to the Colts. There's some history for him as he used to play there and it's less than a 5 hour drive from his current home in Michigan. The problem for them is that the other 3 guys they have on their wish list, ie Dan Quinn, Raheem Morris, and DeMeco Ryans, are defensive coaches, and if one of the stipulations is that they find somebody that can 'fix' Russell, Payton and Hairball would be better suited.

So to answer your question: Hell if I know.

I think they will break the bank for a new coach. I think they will get Harbaugh or Payton. Payton really depends on the draft capital they have to give up. The new ownership has to restore faith in the team and a high profile coach will go a long way to doing that. They have no choice given what they traded for and paid Russ.

[RiverDog]

I don't think it will be Payton or Hairball. IMO Hairball goes to the Colts. There's some history for him as he used to play there and it's less than a 5 hour drive from his current home in Michigan. The problem for them is that the other 3 guys they have on their wish list, ie Dan Quinn, Raheem Morris, and DeMeco Ryans, are defensive coaches, and if one of the stipulations is that they find somebody that can 'fix' Russell, Payton and Hairball would be better suited.

So to answer your question: Hell if I know.

I think they will break the bank for a new coach. I think they will get Harbaugh or Payton. Payton really depends on the draft capital they have to give up. The new ownership has to restore faith in the team and a high profile coach will go a long way to doing that. They have no choice given what they traded for and paid Russ.

There's an old saying that everybody has their price, and Payton would command 50% more than the highest paid coach, currently Bill Belichick at $12M per year. If money is no object and Payton is the type that can be persuaded by the almighty dollar, then I could see him taking that job.

[obiken]

There's an old saying that everybody has their price, and Payton would command 50% more than the highest paid coach, currently Bill Belichick at $12M per year. If money is no object and Payton is the type that can be persuaded by the almighty dollar, then I could see him taking that job.

I agree Riv, but I dont think with him its the money, its the situation. I dont think he goes to a dumpster fire like Houston, AZ, or Denver. Maybe Denver but I doubt it. SD with Herbert, in a NY minute!

[Aseahawkfan]

There's an old saying that everybody has their price, and Payton would command 50% more than the highest paid coach, currently Bill Belichick at $12M per year. If money is no object and Payton is the type that can be persuaded by the almighty dollar, then I could see him taking that job.

If they hired Harbaugh with Russ, I wish they were in Frisco. That would have been an absolutely awesome rivalry. Harbaugh and Russ versus Pete and Geno. Must see football.

[Hawktawk]

There's an old saying that everybody has their price, and Payton would command 50% more than the highest paid coach, currently Bill Belichick at $12M per year. If money is no object and Payton is the type that can be persuaded by the almighty dollar, then I could see him taking that job.

“I agree Riv, but I dont think with him its the money, its the situation. I dont think he goes to a dumpster fire like Houston, AZ, or Denver. Maybe Denver but I doubt it. SD with Herbert, in a NY minute![/quote]

Dallas will be open . That’s where Payton’s going . Dak is easier to fix than Russ and younger too .

I agree on Houston . I don’t care how many draft picks they have . It’s a dysfunctional organization top to bottom . Terrible GM , a blame shifting clown .

The Chargers are dancing . Win or lose I don’t see firing the HC this year . Kyler Murray will supposedly have input into his next Coach . I wonder about Russ he already made up a wish list .

[obiken]

I do not see him going to Dallas at all! Putting up with JJ, and Dak has proved he is Cousins on steroids, that's all.

[RiverDog]

There's an old saying that everybody has their price, and Payton would command 50% more than the highest paid coach, currently Bill Belichick at $12M per year. If money is no object and Payton is the type that can be persuaded by the almighty dollar, then I could see him taking that job.

“I agree Riv, but I dont think with him its the money, its the situation. I dont think he goes to a dumpster fire like Houston, AZ, or Denver. Maybe Denver but I doubt it. SD with Herbert, in a NY minute![/quote]

Dallas will be open . That’s where Payton’s going . Dak is easier to fix than Russ and younger too .

I agree on Houston . I don’t care how many draft picks they have . It’s a dysfunctional organization top to bottom . Terrible GM , a blame shifting clown .

The Chargers are dancing . Win or lose I don’t see firing the HC this year . Kyler Murray will supposedly have input into his next Coach . I wonder about Russ he already made up a wish list .

If the Cowboys lose this weekend, then I agree, that Dallas is a strong possibility for Payton.

As far as the Houston job goes, if it's one of the top candidates, they will no doubt insist on authority over the GM and a long term contract. In any event, I'm not predicting that Payton will end up in Houston, just that it's a more desirable job than the Broncos.

I'm not sure if the Chargers job will be open, and even if it does, I don't see Herbert as being a huge attraction. He's been a bit of a disappointment, so it's an open question whether or not Payton sees him as being the next Drew Brees or whether he'd prefer starting over from scratch. We also don't know how much of a factor money is with him. We have a tendency to project our own personal views into situations like these.

[c_hawkbob]

You may not see Hebert as a big attraction but I guarantee prospective coaches do!

[Hawktawk]

You may not see Hebert as a big attraction but I guarantee prospective coaches do!

Yeah this . He’s thrown for more yards than any man his first 3 years . Set rookie records . 6’5” or whatever. Runs like a deer . Should have been in playoffs last year .

That said they lost Bosa and Evans in the Denver loss so not sure their status . Some are saying cosch was dumb to play them . I still have a hard time believing he’s gone this year but that’s the team that fired Marty Schottenheimet after 14-2 AFC title game . So who knows .
Almost any coach in the league would love to coach Herbert .

[NorthHawk]

Herbert is one of the 2 or 3 best young QBs playing today.
Payton has a reputation of being a QB fixer or at least getting the most out of his QBs so having one with the tools that Herbert has as well as some real good talent around him
would in all likelihood be something he would find attractive. Add in he's in LA with the warm weather and it would be an easy decision if those factors are indeed in play for his decision.

[RiverDog]

Say what you want about Herbert, IMO he's still a 2nd tier QB. I'm not saying that Payton wouldn't want to coach him, just that we're making an assumption that he sees the same things in him that he saw in Drew Brees.

Besides, it's probably a moot point as the Chargers job might not even open up this year. It's not too often that teams fire a HC following a season where their team made the playoffs.

[Hawktawk]

Herbert is one of the 2 or 3 best young QBs playing today.
Payton has a reputation of being a QB fixer or at least getting the most out of his QBs so having one with the tools that Herbert has as well as some real good talent around him
would in all likelihood be something he would find attractive. Add in he's in LA with the warm weather and it would be an easy decision if those factors are indeed in play for his decision.

Do you think the chargers will fire their coach after reaching the postseason to bring in Payton at 20 million a year ?

And one more time . He had Drew Brees for 15 years . 1 super bowl win . 13 years ago . Might have been 2 but for officials manipulating the NFC title game in 19 but hey river no excuses right .
Point being this guy was suspended a year for a bounty pool that encouraged knocking guys out of the game ten years ago , Hes has had some nice teams but did squat with them . Carroll owned his good teams in the postseason. He’s 59. Without Brees they were impotent his last season . You wanna surrender a boatload of picks and pay him probably 20 million per when young guys are being successful around the league . No saying he’s fools gold but 1 title 13 years ago with a first ballot HOF qb for 15 years . How many did Bill get with Tom ?
This is not the messiah .

[NorthHawk]

Do you think the chargers will fire their coach after reaching the postseason to bring in Payton at 20 million a year ?

And one more time . He had Drew Brees for 15 years . 1 super bowl win . 13 years ago . Might have been 2 but for officials manipulating the NFC title game in 19 but hey river no excuses right .
Point being this guy was suspended a year for a bounty pool that encouraged knocking guys out of the game ten years ago , Hes has had some nice teams but did squat with them . Carroll owned his good teams in the postseason. He’s 59. Without Brees they were impotent his last season . You wanna surrender a boatload of picks and pay him probably 20 million per when young guys are being successful around the league . No saying he’s fools gold but 1 title 13 years ago with a first ballot HOF qb for 15 years . How many did Bill get with Tom ?
This is not the messiah .

If they are 1 and done and don't show well, yah I can see them firing their HC in favor of Payton.

He's won a SB. That carries a lot of weight with GMs and owners as he's looked at as someone who knows what it takes.
Whether that's fair or not is irrelevant, it's the perception that matters.
So we have the Chargers who are in the largest or 2nd largest media market trying to be noticed. They've been overshadowed by the Rams and need to upgrade their profile in LA, if not the country.
To me, the pieces fit if they decide a change is needed to take the next step.

[RiverDog]

I heard on Good Morning Football this AM that in the 100 year history of the Cardinals franchise, that they've never had a head coach for more than 6 years.

[Hawktawk]

I think Arians stepped away but other then that , yeah . Not good
Has any HC ever won a super bowl then gone elsewhere and done it again. I’m wracking my brain but i can’t think of a single one .

So why do they keep hiring them ? As the very late Henry ford said “ history is bunk “
If an opening arose here not saying I wouldn’t want a seasoned coach but just saying I do not think any of these high profile guys are the magic bullet .
Heard an interesting name on the radio . Kirby Smart .

[obiken]

Say what you want about Herbert, IMO he's still a 2nd tier QB. I'm not saying that Payton wouldn't want to coach him, just that we're making an assumption that he sees the same things in him that he saw in Drew Brees.

Besides, it's probably a moot point as the Chargers job might not even open up this year. It's not too often that teams fire a HC following a season where their team made the playoffs.

2nd tier QB? Man do we have a major disagreement on that one!!! The guy took 0 snaps, thrown into the jungle and became ROTY! Sorry I think Mahomey, Herbert, Allen, and Burrow, are all Tier 1 guys.

[TriCitySam]

Herbert's a good looking QB. Done pretty well considering, IMO, Chargers haven't found a quality coach. He would likely blossom under Payton.

[mykc14]

I get tired of the race card getting played when there's no evidence of discrimination. If there's a pattern, fine, then bring it up and let's air it out. But all Irvin is doing is raising suspicions and fostering mistrust, making things worse.

I've got to agree it seems like a ridiculous claim and does more harm than good. How does it make sense that the same people who are praised for hiring a black coach are then being implied to be racist for firing a black coach? Maybe they are just a terribly ran organization. Lovie Smith gets fired after one season because he's black but Nathaniel Hackett gets fired after one season because he's incompetent?

[Aseahawkfan]

I've got to agree it seems like a ridiculous claim and does more harm than good. How does it make sense that the same people who are praised for hiring a black coach are then being implied to be racist for firing a black coach? Maybe they are just a terribly ran organization. Lovie Smith gets fired after one season because he's black but Nathaniel Hackett gets fired after one season because he's incompetent?

Yes. That is modern thinking. Now you're getting it.

[Hawktawk]

The Texans fired 2 black head coaches after 1 year in back to back seasons . All the Brian Flores stuff was going down last year when they canned Culley completely unfairly and they were accused of racial bias then . I felt Lovie was a throwaway hire to say shove it we hired another black guy . Well now they fired another black guy in one year . And stop with Hackett . His own fans were screaming for his head a week in . Their mistake was not canning Paton. My guess it’s a matter of time unless someone fixes Russ . They should keep the ST guy .

But yeah if people want to accuse the Texans of racism it gives a litte meat to the bone dumping Lovie. They were playing pretty good with a terrible roster at seasons end . They are racists towards Asian Massage therapists . That’s for sure . If I were a HC with any other option it wouldn’t be there with that miserable ownership

[NorthHawk]

Lovie Smith got fired because that organization is incompetent.
3 coaches in 3 years is too stupid for words. Nobody can implement their program in one year and achieve a high
level of success.

[RiverDog]

Some more rumors. Supposedly Sean Payton has been 'doing some homework' on the Cardnials job, that he's a fan of Kyler Murray's:

"Mentioned in story with @RapSheet last weekend on looming changes with the #Cardinals that Sean Payton had been doing homework on the Arizona job," Pelissero said.

He's also a "fan" of Kyler Murray.

The story also notes that there is currently no GM in place in Arizona, which could make that job more attractive to Payton.

And former Stanford HC David Shaw has interviewed with the Broncos:

Former Stanford HC David Shaw interviewed today with the Denver Broncos about their head coaching job, sources tell ESPN. Shaw spent nine years in the NFL, from 1997-2005, with the Eagles, Raiders and Ravens, and is interested in returning to the pro game.

So far, no fewer than 6 potential HC candidates have interviewed or are expected to be interviewed for the Broncos job.

[TriCitySam]

What negativity? Who said anything about Pete?

That was a general comment, plenty of shade thrown on various threads and a comment the team didn't "perform to it's potential". It's my opinion that Pete is as good of a motivater/coach as you will find.

As for some of the openings, there are plenty of owners who have proven their not very good it hiring - the Bidwells record mention above says that in spades. Same can be said for the Texans and Colts. As for the Broncos, who knows, although I read a quote from an assistant coach basically saying the new owners - who are leading the search - don't have a clue. I think they have a pretty good business IQ, but much like the Colts and Cardinals they took over for Daddy.

[RiverDog]

What negativity? Who said anything about Pete?

That was a general comment, plenty of shade thrown on various threads and a comment the team didn't "perform to it's potential". It's my opinion that Pete is as good of a motivater/coach as you will find.

That's odd as I haven't seen any comments in any threads that suggested this year's team didn't "perform to its potential". With varying degrees, every regular poster has said that we've exceeded expectations...that is, unless you want to say that Hawktawk's preseason forecast of a minimum 10 win season qualifies as "not performing to its potential."

As for some of the openings, there are plenty of owners who have proven their not very good it hiring - the Bidwells record mention above says that in spades. Same can be said for the Texans and Colts. As for the Broncos, who knows, although I read a quote from an assistant coach basically saying the new owners - who are leading the search - don't have a clue. I think they have a pretty good business IQ, but much like the Colts and Cardinals they took over for Daddy.

Agreed about the Cards. As I said earlier, I heard a comment made on NFL Network's "Good Morning Football" that they haven't had a head coach that stayed with the team for more than 6 seasons in the 100 year history of the franchise. It would seem to be a big factor in their failure to win a Super Bowl or an NFL Championship in nearly 75 years.

But I'm not sure if coaching stability always equates to sustained success as defined by deep runs into the playoffs. Similar to Pete, Mike Tomlin and John Harbaugh had success early in their head coaching careers, but they seem to have fallen into this mediocrity trap just like Pete has. It may be that head coaches have a shelf life.

Now that's not to be interpreted as our team "not performing to potential" or that I'm calling for Pete's head. It's simply a general statement about the value of longevity and nothing more.

The Broncos owner didn't "take over for daddy" as was the case in Arizona and the Colts. The Broncos are owned by the heir of the Sam Walton, a.k.a. Walmart founder. But I don't contest your statement that 'they don't have a clue.' They seem to think that money can buy them anything. I guess we'll find out.