Hackett just got fired

[c_hawkbob]

You ever watch the Skip and Shannon show? "some guy flapping his jaws" is them to a tee.

[obiken]

I would probably hire Jim Harbaugh for Denver. I think he could get a lot out of that team.

I agree but I dont see Harbaugh leaving Michigan, he has beaten OState 2 years in a row now. Russ needs that kind of Coach.

[Aseahawkfan]

First of all, I said "at least one." I'm sure that there's a large number that support him. But so does every locker room that has a similar problem. I'm sure that Zach Wilson has at least some teammates that support him.

Secondly, we're not talking about the Seahawks locker room, the issue we've been discussing is the Broncos.

The point is that the Broncos locker room would appear to be divided, with some players supporting Russ, others not so much. That's quite common when teams lose and their quarterback performs poorly, so please don't tell me that Russell and the Broncos are somehow immune to that phenomenon.

I don't think the Denver locker room cares. They were losing just as badly last year, I don't recall Denver players talking about how much they hate Drew Lock and Vic Fangio.

We're 7 and 8 now. We've been losing a ton. Does the locker room suddenly hate Geno and Pete? Did Geno lose the locker room? Is he bad now?

When I listen to NFL players, a lot of them don't even interact or care. Once it's all done, the ones that were friends are still friends.

This is just the usual BS and guys are having fun talking about. It doesn't mean jack squat. 50 plus players on the team. Most of them don't care about all this locker room gossip. They get paid to do a job every week. If their QB is having a tough time, it doesn't suddenly make them hate the guy. That's just a stupid idea. This isn't the military. No one is stuck. They're all still getting paid.

If Russ turns it around and some guys start talking well about him in the locker room he's a changed man? How ridiculous.

Russ was Russ when we were winning. Russ is Russ when he's losing. Besides a well-known grandstander like Sherm, I haven't heard too many players speak or care one way or the other. A handful have spoken in support and fans and the media have spun lots of tales for gossip. That's what I see. None of them know anything that is going on. Just people taking shots either for perceived slights like hawktawk or tricity has a beef or media personalities looking for something to talk about.

Seen it this way for years. We have tons of sayings for it like a "Kicking someone while they're down" which is what a bunch of people are doing. Why humans take pleasure in this activity, I don't know. I have seen it enough times to know they like seeing the "perfect people" fall and kicking someone while they're down.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I don't think the Denver locker room cares. They were losing just as badly last year, I don't recall Denver players talking about how much they hate Drew Lock and Vic Fangio.

The 2021 team ended the season with one less loss than the team this season (and could be two more coming), and it wasn't led by a $50 million quarterback. My money is on they do care especially since Russell Wilson isn't going anywhere in the next two seasons at least.

We're 7 and 8 now. We've been losing a ton. Does the locker room suddenly hate Geno and Pete? Did Geno lose the locker room? Is he bad now?

Again, different scenario. Pretty sure the whole team is aware of the circumstances. That they are even in playoff contention at this point in the season all the while having significant PT for youngsters and little quality depth probably means the locker room is still in good spirits.

When I listen to NFL players, a lot of them don't even interact or care. Once it's all done, the ones that were friends are still friends.

This is just the usual BS and guys are having fun talking about. It doesn't mean jack squat. 50 plus players on the team. Most of them don't care about all this locker room gossip. They get paid to do a job every week. If their QB is having a tough time, it doesn't suddenly make them hate the guy. That's just a stupid idea. This isn't the military. No one is stuck. They're all still getting paid.

If Russ turns it around and some guys start talking well about him in the locker room he's a changed man? How ridiculous.

Russ was Russ when we were winning. Russ is Russ when he's losing. Besides a well-known grandstander like Sherm, I haven't heard too many players speak or care one way or the other. A handful have spoken in support and fans and the media have spun lots of tales for gossip. That's what I see. None of them know anything that is going on. Just people taking shots either for perceived slights like hawktawk or tricity has a beef or media personalities looking for something to talk about.

Seen it this way for years. We have tons of sayings for it like a "Kicking someone while they're down" which is what a bunch of people are doing. Why humans take pleasure in this activity, I don't know. I have seen it enough times to know they like seeing the "perfect people" fall and kicking someone while they're down.

There's a lot of jumping in while the water is warm, that's true. That doesn't mean he's hated by his detractors either on this forum or in the Broncos' locker room, but I can imagine the entire team is incredibly frustrated by it all. It's the culmination of a season going steadily down the drain in no small part due to the terrible play of Russel Wilson after giving up a king's ransom to get him.

[RiverDog]

There's a lot of jumping in while the water is warm, that's true. That doesn't mean he's hated by his detractors either on this forum or in the Broncos' locker room, but I can imagine the entire team is incredibly frustrated by it all. It's the culmination of a season going steadily down the drain in no small part due to the terrible play of Russel Wilson after giving up a king's ransom to get him.

Good post, Mack.

It's not only Russell's salary, the perks and special privileges, and the bounty the Broncos gave up that's caused the rub. It's that the expectations were that he was going to take them all to the Super Bowl. I'm sure the team is just as, if not more frustrated as their fan base is and they're looking for a scapegoat to take out their frustrations on. Russell is far from being the only thing wrong with the team, but he is the most visible.

We'll see what happens next season. The Broncos aren't that far away as they've lost a lot of close games. If they had just an average offense, they'd be competing for the division title.

[obiken]

Yes Russ played bad, but as we found out Geno is just Geno, without a running game, and Russ had one of the top 3 backs in the league go down the first game. Moreover, they also lost one of his top WR's outta training camp, and OLine injuries up the butt. Add to that why in the hell you get rid of an edge pass rusher like Chubb is beyond me. You never get rid of corners and Edge pass rushers now days! Yeah then there is Hackett which has been covered enough. They need a vet coach to come in and straighten it all out, rookies dont work, when they do its outlier stuff not the norm.

[RiverDog]

Jerry Jeudy's statement in support of Russell is the only new information in this discussion for some time. My opinion that it evidences a directional shift in the conversation is the only point I made. Instead of commenting on that you chose to rehash already thoroughly covered portions of this conversation which I had never contested in the first place.

I most certainly did comment about your "new information." Here's what I said"

Sure, out of 52 other players in the locker room, it's not surprising to find one (Jeudy) that's in support of him (Russell), especially a wide receiver that's not assigned to protect him.

And as far as your introducing "new information" into the discussion, how is it that Jeudy's comments qualify but Shannon Sharpe's comments don't?

[RiverDog]

Well, here's some "new information" to break out of our circular discussion. Posted without comment:

After months of silence, Broncos players rush to Russell Wilson’s defense

Something weird is happening in Denver.

That statement would be true pretty much every week of a wild and wacky 2022 season. The current nuttiness comes from a sudden effort by multiple Broncos players to rush to the public defense of quarterback Russell Wilson.

From receiver Jerry Jeudy to receiver K.J. Hamler to receiver Kendall Hinton to receiver Tim Patrick to receiver Courtland Sutton to offensive lineman Garrett Bolles to former Broncos running back Melvin Gordon, players suddenly — and supposedly organically — are pushing back against the criticism of Wilson. The catalyst seems to be recent remarks from former Broncos tight end Shannon Sharpe, who said the Wilson’s perceived better-than-the-rest-of-you attitude has teammates “seething.”

Frankly, the fact that some have spoken out doesn’t mean the rest of them feel the same way. Sharpe surely wasn’t pulling his thoughts out of thin air; it’s possible that plenty are saying nothing at all because they have nothing good to say.

Besides, Sharpe isn’t the first one to rip Wilson this year. Why is the pushback only happening now?

It feels orchestrated and contrived. With Wilson going nowhere in 2023, it could be part of a broader effort to create the impression to coaching candidates that the team isn’t one giant ball of oily dysfunction.

The more together the players seem to be, the more likely they are to land a good coach. In contrast, the messier things seem in the locker room, the more likely a coach with options will opt to go elsewhere.

It’s perhaps the only plausible explanation for this sudden, simultaneous effort to support a player who has been embattled for months.

Posted by Mike Florio on December 30, 2022, 10:22 AM EST

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... s-defense/

[Aseahawkfan]

Mike Florio?

I just can't believe people want to pretend how much you like or dislike your QB has anything to do with winning or losing. I guess teams like Denver and Jacksonville really hated their QBs and coaches using that logic. It's some of the most flawed and inaccurate reasoning for the results of a team I've ever seen. It's applied incredibly inconsistently. If it were a real factor, every bad team would always hate their coach and QB and vice versa.

As far as I'm concerned, it has no effect whatsoever. Teams are good or bad based on coaching, talent, and health. Any of those is bad, things can go bad. Crap like how much you like the QB or coach or other players don't have a damn thing to do with anything. It's just gossip for the sports media mill to keep putting out stories. It has no impact on the game.

When I see people just fabricating reasons for poor play by Russ, I keep wondering why they don't use the same reasoning when Geno is leading us to loss after loss or Tom Brady is losing or Trevor Lawrence in Jacksonville. Or any head coach, QB, or GM. Why is it any different for them? If Seattle had problems because of Russ havinga "team" or not working hard or what not, then I guess Seattle is 7 and 8 because Pete isn't working hard and Geno stopped working hard and caused problems with his teammates. Same logic applies right? Same reasoning? Where's the fabrications of rifts in the locker room in Seattle because we lost five games in a row or so? Where's all the stories?

[Hawktawk]

Yes Russ played bad, but as we found out Geno is just Geno, without a running game, and Russ had one of the top 3 backs in the league go down the first game. Moreover, they also lost one of his top WR's outta training camp, and OLine injuries up the butt. Add to that why in the hell you get rid of an edge pass rusher like Chubb is beyond me. You never get rid of corners and Edge pass rushers now days! Yeah then there is Hackett which has been covered enough. They need a vet coach to come in and straighten it all out, rookies dont work, when they do its outlier stuff not the norm.

Geno is career high Geno . You’re screaming get Carr . Geno put 34 on the raiders with no run game and no defense giving up over 200 rushing . Genos been better than Carr . Geno had 1 TD - 1 pick 245 yards passing last week. Carr 0 TDs 3 picks last week . I need to see Geno standing up with time to throw and supported by 3 phases before saying he’s just Geno . Tua and Dak joined Carr with 3 pick games .

It’s called hit too much . Mahomes had 3 picks a few weeks ago . Everyone’s getting hit too much.

As for Chubb when you trade a kings ransom in draft capital and players and your guy you gave it all for stinks you need picks . Might need a qb.
And don’t start with injuries . Everyone has them. If we had Adams we would be better . If we had Penny we would be scary . If ifs and buts was candy and nuts we’d all have a merry Christmas . If your aunt had balls and so forth …

He didn’t train hard , the body doesn’t lie. His itinerary was well known . Time to record memes about let’s ride but calling Seahawks audibles and not familiar with the playbook late in the season . It’s all out there .

This interim guy Roseburgh is interesting . 12 year vet of John Harbaughs staff .
He’s called the reports BS about Russ, calls him a HOF qb in practice , praises and encourages players to back up Russ. It’s a circle the wagons strategy , double down on the Wilson gamble . It’s why people started talking week 16.

It’s smart . Fascinating . It comes down to whether Russ can back it up . But the coach is a company man . A character . He makes me a bit nervous about our pick .

[RiverDog]

This interim guy Roseburgh is interesting . 12 year vet of John Harbaughs staff .
He’s called the reports BS about Russ, calls him a HOF qb in practice , praises and encourages players to back up Russ. It’s a circle the wagons strategy , double down on the Wilson gamble . It’s why people started talking week 16.

It’s smart . Fascinating . It comes down to whether Russ can back it up . But the coach is a company man . A character . He makes me a bit nervous about our pick .

Yeah, I saw what Rosburg said about the reports on Russell. It's not at all surprising. What was he supposed to say? As you noted, he's a company man.

His comments plays into this theory that Florio ran up the flagpole, that the Broncos are embarking on a PR mission to counter criticism that there's a division in the locker room so they can make their franchise look good to a prospective head coach. I'm not sure if I believe it, but it does make sense.

As far as being nervous about our pick, I'm always nervous. But the worst we can possibly do is the 7th overall. The Falcons play the Cards and the Panthers play the Saints. All 4 of those teams are in competition for the slotting around where we're sitting. My guess is that we'll end up in the 5th or 6th slot.

[obiken]

Geno is career high Geno . You’re screaming get Carr . Geno put 34 on the raiders with no run game and no defense giving up over 200 rushing . Genos been better than Carr . Geno had 1 TD - 1 pick 245 yards passing last week. Carr 0 TDs 3 picks last week . I need to see Geno standing up with time to throw and supported by 3 phases before saying he’s just Geno . Tua and Dak joined Carr with 3 pick games .

It’s called hit too much . Mahomes had 3 picks a few weeks ago . Everyone’s getting hit too much.

As for Chubb when you trade a kings ransom in draft capital and players and your guy you gave it all for stinks you need picks . Might need a qb.
And don’t start with injuries . Everyone has them. If we had Adams we would be better . If we had Penny we would be scary . If ifs and buts was candy and nuts we’d all have a merry Christmas . If your aunt had balls and so forth …

He didn’t train hard , the body doesn’t lie. His itinerary was well known . Time to record memes about let’s ride but calling Seahawks audibles and not familiar with the playbook late in the season . It’s all out there .

This interim guy Roseburgh is interesting . 12 year vet of John Harbaughs staff .
He’s called the reports BS about Russ, calls him a HOF qb in practice , praises and encourages players to back up Russ. It’s a circle the wagons strategy , double down on the Wilson gamble . It’s why people started talking week 16.

It’s smart . Fascinating . It comes down to whether Russ can back it up . But the coach is a company man . A character . He makes me a bit nervous about our pick .

Your point on injuries is true. I am not for getting Carr to replace Geno, I just said Carr would be better than Geno. Carr will go to a winning team, and he has earned it. Carr has been through a dumpster fire for 4 years and you cannot deny that. Hackett was in over his head, even if he wasnt, he is Eric Mangini lite, he just does not have the personality for it. I think the Raiders are a mess and it will take years to straighten out. The Broncos will be better next year, if not, they will have to start moving off Russ. We'll see. Note well, when the Broncos lose games, I go out and have a cheeseburger! I am not to cry that RW is losing, I just think as Cowherd was saying, RW makes a great target when he is down, for the reasons you covered.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I just can't believe people want to pretend how much you like or dislike your QB has anything to do with winning or losing. I guess teams like Denver and Jacksonville really hated their QBs and coaches using that logic. It's some of the most flawed and inaccurate reasoning for the results of a team I've ever seen. It's applied incredibly inconsistently. If it were a real factor, every bad team would always hate their coach and QB and vice versa.

You're assuming incomplete logic. The huge difference between those teams and this Broncos team is $50 million dollar quarterback that cost 2 1's, 2 2's and 3 players. Expectations were far higher than the egg that has been laid.

As far as I'm concerned, it has no effect whatsoever. Teams are good or bad based on coaching, talent, and health. Any of those is bad, things can go bad. Crap like how much you like the QB or coach or other players don't have a damn thing to do with anything. It's just gossip for the sports media mill to keep putting out stories. It has no impact on the game.

When a team keeps on losing in no small part to poor play by an expensive quarterback, it has a lot do with it. All the little things that can normally be overlooked by winning become glaring.

When I see people just fabricating reasons for poor play by Russ, I keep wondering why they don't use the same reasoning when Geno is leading us to loss after loss or Tom Brady is losing or Trevor Lawrence in Jacksonville. Or any head coach, QB, or GM. Why is it any different for them? If Seattle had problems because of Russ havinga "team" or not working hard or what not, then I guess Seattle is 7 and 8 because Pete isn't working hard and Geno stopped working hard and caused problems with his teammates. Same logic applies right? Same reasoning? Where's the fabrications of rifts in the locker room in Seattle because we lost five games in a row or so? Where's all the stories?

They can roll with the punches on Tom Brady because of those 7 rings he has, and a decline in his play isn't unexpected. Trevor Lawrence is still a young guy figuring the NFL game out. Again, I don't believe any Seahawk thought the team would be where it is, and they know Geno isn't the biggest reason for losing. He's not playing well enough to carry the team, but he's playing well enough to win if the rest of the team holds up their end of the couch. No, the same logic doesn't apply. There are no stories because there's hardly any smoke to suggest there's a fire. Denver, on the other hand, has had plenty of smoke this season and Wilson is a chimney.

[Hawktawk]

60% completion . Under 3 k yards . 11 TDs . Lowest scoring offense in the league with one of the best defenses in the league . That takes some doing . All those extra possessions . Imagine Geno having a defense like that .

It’s the qb in Denver , not a lot of people flapping their jaws . I guess we will see . Some of the players were not happy in full pads last week . This guy is different for sure .

[c_hawkbob]

Jerry Jeudy's statement in support of Russell is the only new information in this discussion for some time. My opinion that it evidences a directional shift in the conversation is the only point I made. Instead of commenting on that you chose to rehash already thoroughly covered portions of this conversation which I had never contested in the first place.

I most certainly did comment about your "new information." Here's what I said"

Sure, out of 52 other players in the locker room, it's not surprising to find one (Jeudy) that's in support of him (Russell), especially a wide receiver that's not assigned to protect him.

I caught that, but it wasn't really commenting on my assertion that the pendulum had begun to swing back, it was prefacing your asking me again to comment on what you had previously said, which again was a part of the initial swing of the pendulum.

And as far as your introducing "new information" into the discussion, how is it that Jeudy's comments qualify but Shannon Sharpe's comments don't?

Because what Jeudy said was offered as evidence of my assertion while what Sharpe said was just more of the same as what had been being said already. I was talking about a change in the popular narrative which, evidenced by your subsequent post, was exactly on point.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

The pendulum will stay on the negative side until they start winning again. Florio's theory is just that, but it is very possible. It's going to take through to the next 6 games of next season. If they're struggling again, no amount of spin is going to help.

[curmudgeon]

Remember the reported “schism” in the Seahawks locker room? Seems to have made it’s way to Denver. Hmmmm……

[RiverDog]

The pendulum will stay on the negative side until they start winning again. Florio's theory is just that, but it is very possible. It's going to take through to the next 6 games of next season. If they're struggling again, no amount of spin is going to help.

I don't necessarily buy Florio's theory, either. But he has a point. People have been roasting Russell unmercifully for months, and for months, none of the Broncos players came to his defense. But suddenly, within days of Hackett's firing, there's 6-8 of them coming out in support of Russell. Is it a coincidence?

I agree completely about your statement regarding the swinging pendulum. Right now, it's stuck hard over at the 9pm position, and that's where it will stay until Russell starts playing better and the Broncos start winning.

[Hawktawk]

Remember the reported “schism” in the Seahawks locker room? Seems to have made it’s way to Denver. Hmmmm……

THIS^^^^^

[NorthHawk]

I saw Ryan Clark on NFL Live a while back talking about team unity (not Denver or Seattle) and he said that not all
players like each other but accept them if they can help them win. But they aren’t all buddy buddy and the schisms
are covered up by success.

So in Denver they had a team last year that was only missing a top QB to get them over the hump - or so they thought.
They brought in Wilson and the rest of the team had high hopes to go deep into the playoffs. Now that the season is lost
those schisms are being exposed. If they start winning next year they will be covered up again.
It’s as simple as that.

[Aseahawkfan]

The 2021 team ended the season with one less loss than the team this season (and could be two more coming), and it wasn't led by a $50 million quarterback. My money is on they do care especially since Russell Wilson isn't going anywhere in the next two seasons at least.

Why would what someone else is making matter to the locker room?

Again, different scenario. Pretty sure the whole team is aware of the circumstances. That they are even in playoff contention at this point in the season all the while having significant PT for youngsters and little quality depth probably means the locker room is still in good spirits.

It is not a different scenario if you are rating team and player performance based on how much the locker room likes you or personal behavior. If we start to lose, Geno has become a lazy player losing his skills, When we're winning, then he's a hard working player that has amazing skills.

I don't think this is right, but this is the supposition of some. It should be applied equally to any player and any team. It's more a matter of pointing out the illogical position of people who think like this, but don't apply this same thinking to each situation.

It's an inconsistent way to criticize and look for team problems. It's why I never use it and never will.

When Seattle is losing, it's a coaching, talent, or injury issue, not a "are we getting in the locker room" issue or do people like the QB or coach. When I say coaching, I mean developing talent or the effectiveness of game plans, things of this kind. When I say talent, I mean how good the talent is comparatively. Injuries speaks for themselves. If your top talent isn't on the field or can't perform at maximum level, then you're hobbled.

This worrying about locker rooms and such isn't measurable. Guys getting paid millions that cry about locker rooms wouldn't even make it to the NFL. You get paid a lot to do a particular job as well as possible. That job don't depend on how much you like the other guy or crap like if he has personal trainers or any of that.

I'm not directing this at you. Just in general from some of the assessments.

I still see people not wanting to acknowledge the reality that both Pete and Russell could both lose meaning both never see the Super Bowl again and Seahawk fans will look back at Russell and Pete together as the best time in Seattle history with neither ever reaching that pinnacle again and Seattle not seeing much success for years again. This is another real possibility that no one wants to think is possible as they choose sides between Pete and Russ. It's hard to reach that pinnacle even once, much less do it again unless your name is Tom Brady.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I don't think the Denver locker room cares. They were losing just as badly last year, I don't recall Denver players talking about how much they hate Drew Lock and Vic Fangio.

The 2021 team ended the season with one less loss than the team this season (and could be two more coming), and it wasn't led by a $50 million quarterback. My money is on they do care especially since Russell Wilson isn't going anywhere in the next two seasons at least.

Why would what someone else is making matter to the locker room?

I'm highlighting a key difference in the comparison you made. No two situations are the same which is why I take exception to your premise. The Broncos' 2022 season has gone down the drain with a $50 million quarterback at the helm; when a team is losing, I would expect that to matter to the locker room. He should be leading the team to at least playoff contention; not falling flat on his face.

It is not a different scenario if you are rating team and player performance based on how much the locker room likes you or personal behavior. If we start to lose, Geno has become a lazy player losing his skills, When we're winning, then he's a hard working player that has amazing skills.

I don't think this is right, but this is the supposition of some. It should be applied equally to any player and any team. It's more a matter of pointing out the illogical position of people who think like this, but don't apply this same thinking to each situation.

It's an inconsistent way to criticize and look for team problems. It's why I never use it and never will.

When Seattle is losing, it's a coaching, talent, or injury issue, not a "are we getting in the locker room" issue or do people like the QB or coach. When I say coaching, I mean developing talent or the effectiveness of game plans, things of this kind. When I say talent, I mean how good the talent is comparatively. Injuries speaks for themselves. If your top talent isn't on the field or can't perform at maximum level, then you're hobbled.

This worrying about locker rooms and such isn't measurable. Guys getting paid millions that cry about locker rooms wouldn't even make it to the NFL. You get paid a lot to do a particular job as well as possible. That job don't depend on how much you like the other guy or crap like if he has personal trainers or any of that.

I'm not directing this at you. Just in general from some of the assessments.

I still see people not wanting to acknowledge the reality that both Pete and Russell could both lose meaning both never see the Super Bowl again and Seahawk fans will look back at Russell and Pete together as the best time in Seattle history with neither ever reaching that pinnacle again and Seattle not seeing much success for years again. This is another real possibility that no one wants to think is possible as they choose sides between Pete and Russ. It's hard to reach that pinnacle even once, much less do it again unless your name is Tom Brady.

Still disagree with you. It's not that I or others haven't given proper thought to circumstances of the Broncos team (injuries and talent level). Morale matters, and a locker room can turn sour because of discord among players, especially when losing. They are professionals, sure, but they are also human. The bolded portion is situational. It is entirely possible the Broncos are losing badly with locker room issues and the Seahawks are losing without locker room issues. This isn't choosing sides between Pete and Russ. Russ is playing badly; has been since middle of last season. Pete has his issues too. The defense isn't up to snuff, and that's on him. Russ was great for the Seahawks; no denying that and no taking it away from him or the team's history. But that doesn't mean he can't be called out for poor play and very possibly causing issues in his locker room. A Super Bowl win from nearly 10 years ago doesn't mean much to a team and fan base (talking about the Broncos for both) witnessing a meltdown from a guy being paid at the top of his position today.

[Aseahawkfan]

Remember the reported “schism” in the Seahawks locker room? Seems to have made it’s way to Denver. Hmmmm……

We're 7 and 8. Apparently it's still here using that logic.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm highlighting a key difference in the comparison you made. No two situations are the same which is why I take exception to your premise. The Broncos' 2022 season has gone down the drain with a $50 million quarterback at the helm; when a team is losing, I would expect that to matter to the locker room. He should be leading the team to at least playoff contention; not falling flat on his face.

Russ playing badly does not equate to bad character or causing issues due to how he carries himself. It's just means he's playing badly. Just like any player that plays badly regardless of their play.

Still disagree with you. It's not that I or others haven't given proper thought to circumstances of the Broncos team (injuries and talent level). Morale matters, and a locker room can turn sour because of discord among players, especially when losing. They are professionals, sure, but they are also human. The bolded portion is situational. It is entirely possible the Broncos are losing badly with locker room issues and the Seahawks are losing without locker room issues. This isn't choosing sides between Pete and Russ. Russ is playing badly; has been since middle of last season. Pete has his issues too. The defense isn't up to snuff, and that's on him. Russ was great for the Seahawks; no denying that and no taking it away from him or the team's history. But that doesn't mean he can't be called out for poor play and very possibly causing issues in his locker room. A Super Bowl win from nearly 10 years ago doesn't mean much to a team and fan base (talking about the Broncos for both) witnessing a meltdown from a guy being paid at the top of his position today.

Denver wasn't a great team before Russ arrived. They been losing for a while now. I think the media overestimated the quality of their talent. Russ is playing badly and that is one of the factors causing Denver to lose and likely a primary factor. But there are other factors including their talent level, injuries, inability to finish tight games, tough division, and likely a few other factors as to why they are losing. Locker room unity isn't one I place high on the list myself.

Whether Russ is liked or not liked in the locker room isn't a provable factor. Whether Russ and his Team 3 group is a factor isn't provable. Russ marrying Ciara isn't a provable factor. Yet I have heard these all being used to explain why he's playing badly by others attacking him.

My point and really it isn't with you, you've always been a very reasonable poster, is that the same criteria for Russ isn't being applied equally. If Geno suddenly starts playing badly or less good, then it must be because of some personal reason like he's with the wrong woman or his personal trainer is tainting his mind or some other factor than he's just not playing well. That is the criteria being applied to Russ, it should be applied consistently or it is proof of the following:

Russ is being maligned for reasons other than his play including attacking his character, his work ethic, his wife, and the way he chooses to manage his life which I have no evidence has changed from when he was winning to now when he is losing. I think it's clear evidence that the criteria for judging Russell Wilson is not the same as for judging other players.

It seems to me that we have a cadre of disgruntled fans taking shots at Russ for perceived slights and some people that were almost waiting for him to fall so they could pile on because they couldn't stand the positive way he conducts his life and of course the standard media folks looking for a story that gets views, ratings, and clicks.

To someone like myself having watched Russ for ten years now, he seems no different from the man who won the Super Bowl to the man who is now having trouble in Denver. I'm not sure what's wrong or if it's fixable, but I have zero doubt Russ is still working hard, praying, and conducting his life in the same consistent fashion he did when he won as when he lost. So I don't put much into this locker room morale or any of that. He's having a bad year, he'll need to fix it, and if it is fixable he'll put the work in to do so. He's the same Russ when winning or losing. I don't buy all gossip surrounding him.

[RiverDog]

Whether Russ is liked or not liked in the locker room isn't a provable factor.

I don't think there's any doubt that there's a locker from split in Denver, and that Russell is right in the middle of it. Even C-bob seems to acknowledge it. Just how deep is debatable, but there's enough evidence that we've seen with our own eyes that makes it provable, ie the DL yelling at Russell, the backup QB having to be led away from an OL, that we can accept it as a fact. We don't need Shannon Sharpe or Mark Schlereth to tell us that there is one. It exists.

[NorthHawk]

I believe most locker rooms have divides.
It's just that some are deeper than others and losing exposes them and winning covers them up.

[Hawktawk]

Russ was called phony by Kyle Brandt . Similar but more polite by Mrob. And so on . Whatever his defenders think he’s got lots of critics , non fans etc . And it’s a separate issue from his front loaded success here . It’s real in Denver .
But now Rosenberg has said have Russels back, has praised mr 4-12 personally . That’s why there’s so many Russel Wilson fans speaking up in that locker room all at once . It’s an interesting strategy .

But Russ still can’t escape with that fat bloated body . No praise or support will do that . Won’t help with learning the playbook .

That’s work and time . That’s a work ethic issue . He showed he doesn’t have it anymore after this trade . 2012 Russ would not have handled his business like this .

[NorthHawk]

There was a report that the Broncos are looking at Jim Hairball as their next HC.
Today there's a report that he would jump to the NFL if he was offered a HC position.

Will hit happen? 50/50 at this point I would guess.

[Aseahawkfan]

I don't think there's any doubt that there's a locker from split in Denver, and that Russell is right in the middle of it. Even C-bob seems to acknowledge it. Just how deep is debatable, but there's enough evidence that we've seen with our own eyes that makes it provable, ie the DL yelling at Russell, the backup QB having to be led away from an OL, that we can accept it as a fact. We don't need Shannon Sharpe or Mark Schlereth to tell us that there is one. It exists.

It doesn't matter. Locker room issues happen more than people think whether you're doing well or not. When I say it is not a provable factor, I mean it doesn't affect wins or losses. We had Percy Harvin here and we won a Super Bowl with him and he was a huge locker room cancer. Plenty of teams have had what are described as locker room issues and people that don't get along, they still won. Terrell Owens was a big locker room cancer, teams he was on still won.

It's one of those things people like to yap back that has no provable effect on wins and losses.

I have seen zero evidence Russell is any kind of locker room cancer or any issues that are going to cause any trades or personnel issues. You guys just like to grind grist in the gossip mill. Nothing about locker room issues is a fact. Players can get mad during a game and you have no idea what they were saying. No idea at all.

Russell is getting attacked because he's having a down year and some don't like his personality. It's pretty simple. I've seen fans rag on a player or coach they don't like for years. It's just part of the game.

[RiverDog]

I don't think there's any doubt that there's a locker from split in Denver, and that Russell is right in the middle of it. Even C-bob seems to acknowledge it. Just how deep is debatable, but there's enough evidence that we've seen with our own eyes that makes it provable, ie the DL yelling at Russell, the backup QB having to be led away from an OL, that we can accept it as a fact. We don't need Shannon Sharpe or Mark Schlereth to tell us that there is one. It exists.

It doesn't matter. Locker room issues happen more than people think whether you're doing well or not. When I say it is not a provable factor, I mean it doesn't affect wins or losses. We had Percy Harvin here and we won a Super Bowl with him and he was a huge locker room cancer. Plenty of teams have had what are described as locker room issues and people that don't get along, they still won. Terrell Owens was a big locker room cancer, teams he was on still won.

It's one of those things people like to yap back that has no provable effect on wins and losses.

I have seen zero evidence Russell is any kind of locker room cancer or any issues that are going to cause any trades or personnel issues. You guys just like to grind grist in the gossip mill. Nothing about locker room issues is a fact. Players can get mad during a game and you have no idea what they were saying. No idea at all.

Russell is getting attacked because he's having a down year and some don't like his personality. It's pretty simple. I've seen fans rag on a player or coach they don't like for years. It's just part of the game.

There's a big difference between Percy Harvin and the Hawks locker room and Russell and Denver's. We were winning, Denver isn't. Cancers seem to go into remission when you're winning, dominate the locker room when you're losing. Winning cures all evils, losing exposes every little thing.

[Hawktawk]

There were some players not happy with the Harvin trade . Lynch in particular had some colorful adjectives . He had issues with guys , Wilson being the important one but he nearly broke tates neck the night before the Super Bowl body slamming him in the locker room . Every locker room has issues .
Anyone catch Russels tearful press conference thanking teammates for defending him because “ I always give my all . It’s all I know how to do “ . Still unaware that’s for others to say . Interesting presser .

[RiverDog]

There were some players not happy with the Harvin trade . Lynch in particular had some colorful adjectives . He had issues with guys , Wilson being the important one but he nearly broke tates neck the night before the Super Bowl body slamming him in the locker room . Every locker room has issues .
Anyone catch Russels tearful press conference thanking teammates for defending him because “ I always give my all . It’s all I know how to do “ . Still unaware that’s for others to say . Interesting presser .

Yeah, Beast almost didn't board the bus to the airport when he found out that Harvin had been traded. It could have been a real disaster had Beast walked as several others might have followed him. You can trace the demise of the LOB back to the Harvin situation as it likely helped foster the mistrust in Pete that prevented the team, in particular the defense, from getting over a devastating loss in the SB. Worst trade in the history of our franchise.

[Hawktawk]

There were some players not happy with the Harvin trade . Lynch in particular had some colorful adjectives . He had issues with guys , Wilson being the important one but he nearly broke tates neck the night before the Super Bowl body slamming him in the locker room . Every locker room has issues .
Anyone catch Russels tearful press conference thanking teammates for defending him because “ I always give my all . It’s all I know how to do “ . Still unaware that’s for others to say . Interesting presser .

Yeah, Beast almost didn't board the bus to the airport when he found out that Harvin had been traded. It could have been a real disaster had Beast walked as several others might have followed him. You can trace the demise of the LOB back to the Harvin situation as it likely helped foster the mistrust in Pete that prevented the team, in particular the defense, from getting over a devastating loss in the SB. Worst trade in the history of our franchise.

Oh come on River. I thought that was Adams right? Adams wasn't a top 3 reason we won a superbowl but Harvin was . GREAT TRADE RIGHT THERE!!!!!!!! he played one of his best games as an NFL pro in the superbowl. Something some teams have never had...

Broke the ice on a night Beast was very ordinary, led the team in rushing on 3 carries. a great 1 handed stab of a overthrow on 3rd down. All 4 of his touches from scrimmage yielded a first down, 2 put us in scoring position. Then the kick return that might well have been a 14 point swing with a mere mortal back to recieve a perfectly executed pooch kick including coverage right on top of Harvin as he leapt up to high point the ball and landed and made a move all at once.
Glad we had Harvin. Sad he and Russ and some other guys couldn't fix it. He had issues in every locker room he was ever in.
For that matter we weren't the same after Tate left but some things you can't get past. I get that.

As for this LOB breaking up nonsense being somehow connected to Harvin well I ain't buying that. we played in a superbowl after he was traded. The team got there in spite of Wilson. They might have had an issue with Russ blowing the read and throwing the game away(they do)There was a perception Pete wanted Russ to be MVP instead of Beast. Who knows but that was certainly the controversy, nothing about Harvin.
Its well documented who the LOB had a problem with or at least the perceived favoritism of that individual. I know you hated Harvin but come on man.