More zebra manipulation

[Hawktawk]

What the hey might as well get in another fight with River
Another few huge no calls and one big call over the weekend . 2 involved the Commanders in the final moments . The first involved the Commanders wideout . Much as a quarterback is supposed to watch for the flags a ref is SUPPOSED to throw on obvious offsides a receiver covering the end of the line is to check with the ref watching the line to make sure he’s on the line . The referee is supposed to offer guidance .
On replay you can see the receiver gesturing to the ref pointing at the line , clearly asking if he’s good . Ref makes some sort of response which is impossible to determine but he clearly saw the receiver reaching out to him. He puts his hand on the flag before the snap and throws it the moment the ball is snapped for a 1 yard TD. There have been calls for the ref to be suspended but good luck . Even worse a few plays later on 4th down Heinike puts it right on the receiver in the end zone except the defender has him wrapped up with both arms with the ball 20 feet away . A joke . A similar non call handed the Bills their contest with the Dolphins . In a game that affected Seattle Deandre Hopkins was pushed out the back of the endzone by a defender as the ball hit the defender in the back of the head .

Are you ok with this ? It’s every week now . I’m not .

[trents]

Yeah, that one in the end at the end of the game was about as obvious an example of interference as it gets. The Commanders were cheated by the refs on that one for sure.

[Aseahawkfan]

I can't recall a week where officiating mistakes were not made, so I don't worry about it myself.

We all wish they would be better and more perfect. But every week mistakes are made, some serious and some minor. How much of an effect they have on the outcome of games, I don't know. In games this tight with this level of parity, I can see why fans are concerned or get mad. I don't think it's changing any time soon. So you gotta win regardless of the obstacles whether injuries or ref mistakes because the NFL don't care who has the lead at the end.

[Hawktawk]

I can't recall a week where officiating mistakes were not made, so I don't worry about it myself.

We all wish they would be better and more perfect. But every week mistakes are made, some serious and some minor. How much of an effect they have on the outcome of games, I don't know. In games this tight with this level of parity, I can see why fans are concerned or get mad. I don't think it's changing any time soon. So you gotta win regardless of the obstacles whether injuries or ref mistakes because the NFL don't care who has the lead at the end.

Asea I can accept that refs are human and I think most of the time they do ok. But I watched XL. 6 bad calls against Seattle and at least as many blatant no calls on Pittsburgh . I’ve never felt the same . I’m not saying there’s a general agenda per se other than XL which was clearly intentionally manipulated to give the Steelers every advantage to win the game .

This year we have had questionable calls and no calls affect 3 losses . My example this op is Washington . I’m more concerned about the illegal formation penalty than the pi. The receiver asks the ref if he’s ok . Ref doesn’t say no but flags him on a 1 yard TD 50 feet away . Ambush . I’m sick of watching it . I assure you if we attempt pass coverage like the Giants , Bills , and Broncos got away with we won’t . tired of it

[NorthHawk]

Overall, they do an amazingly good job of refereeing but mistakes are made each and every game.
Being full time refs might help somewhat and a ref in the skybox would help, but human beings will still make mistakes.
I gave up tilting at windmills on this subject and although it’s disappointing, I enjoy the game more now.

[Hawktawk]

Refs in this league play god every week . It’s horrible . I don’t enjoy it

[RiverDog]

What the hey might as well get in another fight with River
Another few huge no calls and one big call over the weekend . 2 involved the Commanders in the final moments . The first involved the Commanders wideout . Much as a quarterback is supposed to watch for the flags a ref is SUPPOSED to throw on obvious offsides a receiver covering the end of the line is to check with the ref watching the line to make sure he’s on the line . The referee is supposed to offer guidance .
On replay you can see the receiver gesturing to the ref pointing at the line , clearly asking if he’s good . Ref makes some sort of response which is impossible to determine but he clearly saw the receiver reaching out to him. He puts his hand on the flag before the snap and throws it the moment the ball is snapped for a 1 yard TD. There have been calls for the ref to be suspended but good luck . Even worse a few plays later on 4th down Heinike puts it right on the receiver in the end zone except the defender has him wrapped up with both arms with the ball 20 feet away . A joke . A similar non call handed the Bills their contest with the Dolphins . In a game that affected Seattle Deandre Hopkins was pushed out the back of the endzone by a defender as the ball hit the defender in the back of the head .

Are you ok with this ? It’s every week now . I’m not .

So where's the manipulation? Is Roger Goodell the man behind the curtains, pulling levers and throwing switches?

[Hawktawk]

The plain fact is that officiating is as bad as it’s ever been . Completely disagree they do an “ amazing “ job . Some of the calls I’m seeing like this formation penalty on a 1 yard TD run when the receiver is clearly in communication with the guy . The foul he’s ambushed with is only useful to move a team from the end zone to the 6 yard line . The total wrap up PI I’m seeing all the time is simply a foul to prevent a TD and it’s constant now . DK is getting hit with penalties but I saw on a couple where guys are simply grabbing 2 hands worth of cloth and hanging on . As for some puppet master pulling strings my mind may be a little more sophisticated . Roger is running a very loose ship with his officials , has resisted many technological advances to make it far less prone to human error and now guys call or don’t call stuff so egregious everyone’s talking about it but River . Like 4 minute review of a catch by DK that turns the call to incomplete. Phantom interception , ignore blatant offsides which is a play that blew Carolina open . Yeah Genos fault he expected the guy was going to do his job .
Every week now . I think there could be multiple tentacles of malfeasance . Somethings fishy . It’s ripe for the plucking . I don’t care the mechanism . Outcomes are being manipulated . Let’s see how the year winds up . It might be my last as a fan of the league . Find something better to do then watch WWF.

[RiverDog]

Overall, they do an amazingly good job of refereeing but mistakes are made each and every game.
Being full time refs might help somewhat and a ref in the skybox would help, but human beings will still make mistakes.
I gave up tilting at windmills on this subject and although it’s disappointing, I enjoy the game more now.

I agree completely. The officiating is far from perfect, but it's no worse today than it has been in the past. There always has been, and always will be, bad officiating, sometimes really bad. It's like complaining about the weather. I'm all for doing whatever is reasonable to improve it, but the fact is that it's never going to be perfect. There's always going to be people that will cry conspiracy despite having no evidence whatsoever. It's something that has become engrained in the fabric of our society.

I'm not sure if hiring full time officials will help any. Most of the truly egregious mistakes are judgement type calls, like holding and pass interference. What are they going to do during the offseason, which for them lasts 8 months? Go to classes? Watch film? IMO the only way for them to improve their skills is live, full contact games, experience they can't get in the offseason.

[Hawktawk]

They suck . These are decisions , not misses or judgement calls . They are clear fouls that are seen and not called . Dave Wyman is quite an advocate for refs and he was apoplectic after last weekend . He said of the uncalled blatant PI wrapping up for the tackle LONG before the ball got there it was textbook “ if you want to be a ref and they show you that picture that’s what pass interference looks like “ it’s been a topic on Seattle sports several times which is the first time ever I recall in several years. It’s a farce . Earlier this year vs Atlanta on the final drive we had first and goal on the 8 after a penny screen exploded . But there’s a flag on Lewis for a very borderline at best hold at least 5 yards behind the point of attack . In the same game we get a 55 yard bomb to the 5. Oh wait illegal man downfield Lucas 60 yards away from the play and contacting nobody . In the end it was Genos fault not completing a pass on 4th and 18.

Now follow along . Vs Tampa in the mudhole they are flagged for an illegal pick on a TD pass . After a discussion they pick it up saying it was not at the point of attack and didn’t affect the play . ( not a rule in the book )
Now stay with me . Ref flags a guy , had his hand on the flag after the guy is clearly asking for guidance from the official pre snap and must have gotten the impression he was ok . He tricked a receiver who was trying to comply into a penalty . 1 yard TD plunge was 50 feet away .but no consideration of point of attack , no conference .

It’s fixed. When they decide to do it .

Really anyone who was a Seahawks fan in Feb 2006 and saw a systematic disabling of a far superior team by critical flags and critical spots , on huge plays then watch the other team not be flagged in the final 38 minutes of the game , Offsides Holding , horse collar tackle , PI, OPI .
If you people think nfl officiating is on the up and up you need your head examined . I’m about ready to walk away and write that scumbag goodell and let him know why .

[trents]

I think the issue there on that blatant PI call in the end zone at the end of the game was that refs are reluctant to call penalties at the ends of games will likely change the outcome of the game. This has been the case for as long as I can remember.

[Hawktawk]

I think the issue there on that blatant PI call in the end zone at the end of the game was that refs are reluctant to call penalties at the ends of games will likely change the outcome of the game. This has been the case for as long as I can remember.

I think it’s worse then ever . And the same refs that no called one of the worst pi’s of the year threw a flag on illegal formation pre snap when the damn guy is on video pointing at the line and gesturing to the official who says something and gestures right back at him . As soon as the receiver turns around to look at the snap he puts a hand on his flag .

He took a TD off the board with an unethical call really then the no call stops them on 4th down . Should have been first and goal on the 1 . Your rationale don’t fly at the end of this commanders game .

That outcome was deliberately manipulated by that crew and they do it all the time.

[trents]

That outcome was deliberately manipulated by that crew and they do it all the time.

That's the equivalent of saying that NFL games are rigged. If I thought that, I would quit watching them.

[trents]

That outcome was deliberately manipulated by that crew and they do it all the time.

That's the equivalent of saying the games are rigged. If I thought that I would quit watching NFL football.

[RiverDog]

That outcome was deliberately manipulated by that crew and they do it all the time.

That's the equivalent of saying the games are rigged. If I thought that I would quit watching NFL football.

Precisely. I can't believe that anyone who honestly feels that the outcomes are manipulated would continue to watch it, not to mention watch it passionately.

I remember fighting with my ex-wife, who fervently believed that professional wrestling was a genuine sport. It wasn't until two supposed arch enemies got pulled over together in a traffic stop that I was able to convince her that it was all choreographed.

[Hawktawk]

That outcome was deliberately manipulated by that crew and they do it all the time.

That's the equivalent of saying the games are rigged. If I thought that I would quit watching NFL football.[/quote]m

It’s clear they are manipulated by officiating sometimes . The commanders game was . The illegal formation call was widely considered unprofessional and unethical . There are calls for that official to be suspended but he won’t be reprimanded or his actions explained. Nor the uncalled mugging 2 plays later that effectively ended the game . There’s speculation the officials don’t want Snyder in the playoffs . I get that . It’s not their call .

Super bowl XL is the gold standard of manipulating a game to the greatest degree possible , obvious intentional bias . Commanders in the final sequence after an unremarkable game overall. And everything in between .

There’s human error and then there is clear bias and I see it all the time . Not every game . Probably not half .

But if it is 1 game a year it’s unacceptable . When it’s a super bowl it’s criminal .

Last year was perfect compared to XL but there was a huge bogus hold called on Cincy on the rams last drive and a huge no call of false start on the entire rams line as the center late snapped . Just enough . Here ya go Mr Kroenkie thanks for moving your team to LA here’s your happy ending .

It’s fraudulent when they want . It’s not WWF for 60 minutes . Just a few seconds out of 60 minutes is all it takes . Zero trust
I am considering bailing .

[NorthHawk]

I think you are conflating incompetence or errors in judgement with malicious intent.
Bad calls are made every game but it doesn't mean the Refs are out to help or hinder a particular team in any given game.
Over time, the calls balance out for each team.

[Hawktawk]

I think you are conflating incompetence or errors in judgement with malicious intent.
Bad calls are made every game but it doesn't mean the Refs are out to help or hinder a particular team in any given game.
Over time, the calls balance out for each team.

Did you watch XL? Can you say with a straight face than in the world championship between the Seattle Seahawks and the Pittsburgh STEALERS the calls evened out? I might need to do my patented rundown of calls and no calls that really dont get mentioned much about the worst most corrupt officiating in league history.
Ask the Commanders if it evened out? BAD CALL AND BAD NO CALL BACK TO BACK. GIANTS WIN
Ask us if the 2 no calls vs that Carolina team evened out. Both were obvious. One led to an interception. Yeah Geno shouldn't have thrown it . BULLSH@T. THE REF SHOULD HAVE THROWN IT AND NO WAY HE MISSED IT. 2 guys were watching the line actually. It totally changed the game.
How about during the raiders game 4 minutes in New york to find the clear and convincing evidence to overturn the 12 yard completion to DK? Next play pressure incomplete punt. That's how this league is. And 4 seconds to decide Jacobs forward progress was stopped on a clear fumble and recovery. Forward progress. Sorry. a couple plays later they tied the game at 34.

Why were 2 thrown flags picked up in Munich both benefiting Tampa? THROWN FLAGS OF OBVIOUS FOULS INCLUDING SMASHING GENO WHILE SLIDING .
Why was the field terrible? Because it favors a slow team with the Goat at QB, same reason you picked the 29 power rated team 3 time zones early to play them. Patsies. New jersey generals .

Believe what you want . You're like I've been too long. I dont want to believe it because this has been my life for 45 year but I've been pissed off and paranoid since Feb of 2006. It's pretty clear to me the game is manipulated on a regular basis . The end of the Commanders game triggered me after the BS I been watching all this year. If we got the calls and non calls the Giants got we'd have 10 wins.
About had it. But as long as 90% want to take it up the Yazoo till its the diameter of a dinner plate it will never change. I might fire off a letter to the league. see what their explanation is.

[trents]

HT, what is driving this manipulation you assert? Are you saying the refs are catering to the highest bidder in these situations? Or, are you saying the league is trying to manipulate outcomes to achieve some purpose? If this is actually happening, what do you see is behind it?

[Hawktawk]

Let me begin by saying a majority of games are well officiated, some beautifully . Our 4 game win streak coincided with the cleanest officiating I remember in forever . Very few calls . I also think it’s a damn hard game to officiate . Refs miss stuff . But then there’s times like way too many this year . Perhaps it’s arrogant prick officials who want to be good cop bad cop . I don’t know . There’s 118 men and 3 women on the field and whoever is in the mother ship for replay in New York . As an employer I know a large percentage of employees will steal . Maybe as many as 1 in 4 . What’s the oversight ?
In the case of XL you had a back judge who grew up in the steel curtain era living in Pittsburgh , played linebacker at Juanita college . He took away Jackson’s TD and then went Stevie wonder on a number of Pittsburgh fouls . Or maybe it was Paul Tagliabue sitting beside Steeler owner Dan Rooney in his private suite was all the message that needed sent .

I don’t know why . I just know there’s stuff that doesn’t pass the smell test and this league refuses to implement readily available technology and modernization to make it fairer .

Punish bad refs . Fire them . I might believe they care . But the crew from the 2019 NFC title game “ worst non call in history “ is still working and they still suck , Cheffers is still the crew chief . Several have LA ties by the way . Didn’t want to make their team lose ?
It’s ridiculous .

[RiverDog]

Let me begin by saying a majority of games are well officiated, some beautifully . Our 4 game win streak coincided with the cleanest officiating I remember in forever . Very few calls . I also think it’s a damn hard game to officiate . Refs miss stuff . But then there’s times like way too many this year . Perhaps it’s arrogant prick officials who want to be good cop bad cop . I don’t know . There’s 118 men and 3 women on the field and whoever is in the mother ship for replay in New York . As an employer I know a large percentage of employees will steal . Maybe as many as 1 in 4 . What’s the oversight ?
In the case of XL you had a back judge who grew up in the steel curtain era living in Pittsburgh , played linebacker at Juanita college . He took away Jackson’s TD and then went Stevie wonder on a number of Pittsburgh fouls . Or maybe it was Paul Tagliabue sitting beside Steeler owner Dan Rooney in his private suite was all the message that needed sent .

I don’t know why . I just know there’s stuff that doesn’t pass the smell test and this league refuses to implement readily available technology and modernization to make it fairer .

Punish bad refs . Fire them . I might believe they care . But the crew from the 2019 NFC title game “ worst non call in history “ is still working and they still suck , Cheffers is still the crew chief . Several have LA ties by the way . Didn’t want to make their team lose ?
It’s ridiculous .

All together now, on the count of three. One, two, three:

STOP THE STEAL!

[Hawktawk]

Only this really is . If you think you’re funny you’re in a distinct minority .

[RiverDog]

Only this really is . If you think you’re funny you’re in a distinct minority .

Am I? Where's the beef?

[Hawktawk]

Was Xl just a bad night for officials ?

[NorthHawk]

You forget that during our Championship window, we got the benefit of judgement calls at crucial times on a frequent basis.
It all evens out in the end.

[RiverDog]

Was Xl just a bad night for officials ?

Yes.

[RiverDog]

You forget that during our Championship window, we got the benefit of judgement calls at crucial times on a frequent basis.
It all evens out in the end.

Yeah, the entire nation was outraged over "Fail Mary" to the point where we went begging the regular officials to come back off strike.

[Hawktawk]

You forget that during our Championship window, we got the benefit of judgement calls at crucial times on a frequent basis.
It all evens out in the end.

Yeah, the entire nation was outraged over "Fail Mary" to the point where we went begging the regular officials to come back off strike.

BS
I'm pretty sure we led the league in penalties in 2013
The GOLDEN HAIL MARY as it should be correctly called was indeed a catch by tate. Correctly called by a D1 college official. He missed an OPI because he'd have called it had he seen it. It was an exceptional push off or rather punch off.

An eye in the sky would catch it easily and I've been screaming for that for years so wtf. Why doesnt Roger or self loathing Seahawks fans that say hardy har when their team gets screwed want it?

That guy got death threats. They were better officials. NO showboating, no ego, no agenda to see themselves on tv.
And truly only a rube would say XL wasn't influenced for 60 minutes. Delusional

[Hawktawk]

https://sports.mynorthwest.com/596725/w ... -xl-fixed/
It only takes 1. XL sure looked rigged to me. Where is the oversight? I dont give a damn about about Leaveys 5 years late partial apology. No calls were a bigger part of the game than the ticky tack or non existent fouls that robbed us of a TD, a pass to the 1, a huge Warrick return, who knows what when SA was blatantly horse collared or he might still be running. Or the hold on Heath Miller of Michael Sinclair that springs parker.

Forget Big Bens TD. I think he got it. The hold on Faneca vs DD Lewis literally behind him pulling backwards 10 feet in front of the official is the only reason its close. A hold on Lock with Haggins a yard offsides. A sack by Haggins a yard offsides. Hampton lining up so far in the neutral zone hes damn near earhole to ear hole with Tobeck. Horsecollar. Hass throws pick and makes tackle at the 30 . Low block call setting them up on the 45.

Yeah River they had a bad night . The wining QB rapistburger has a QBR of 22. ROUGH night for the zebras. Worst ever .

Steelers weren't penalized for holding once against the #2 Sack team behind themselves.We got 3 and not sure one wasn't big walt. They got 2 false starts on obviously very obvious false starts. 1 OPI inside the 10 yard line. That's all. Nothing in the final 35 plus minutes of the game. Perfect after a drive that was extended by Ward on 3rd and 9 grabbing our DB by the facemask and bending his head back to create separation and continue the drive. Forget OPI it was a personal foul. Right in front of the same SOB who flagged DJ for trying to get off Chris Hope who has been holding him for 10 yards. Ya tough night.


Who is policing these guys? I know the rules. Who makes sure they are followed?

[RiverDog]

You forget that during our Championship window, we got the benefit of judgement calls at crucial times on a frequent basis.
It all evens out in the end.

Yeah, the entire nation was outraged over "Fail Mary" to the point where we went begging the regular officials to come back off strike.

BS
I'm pretty sure we led the league in penalties in 2013

We did, but in total penalties. If you look at it by net penalties, in other words, take into consideration penalties called against our opponents, we were ranked 3rd.

The LOB was highly penalized in every season. It was a consistent theme as we were a very physical team that drew a lot of PI's and PF's. That doesn't mean that they were incorrectly called. We were also one of the top teams in presnap penalties, which are a lot more objective.

The GOLDEN HAIL MARY as it should be correctly called was indeed a catch by tate. Correctly called by a D1 college official. He missed an OPI because he'd have called it had he seen it. It was an exceptional push off or rather punch off.

That wasn't the point I was trying to make. My point was that the rest of the nation saw it much differently than you and I and felt that it was a colossal officiating failure of which we were the beneficiaries, hence Fail Mary. Immediately after the play, there was a huge outcry to end the strike and bring back the more competent regular officials.

An eye in the sky would catch it easily and I've been screaming for that for years so wtf. Why doesnt Roger or self loathing Seahawks fans that say hardy har when their team gets screwed want it?

We've gone over this ground before. We already have an 'eye in the sky', have had it for several decades now. It's merely a tool and not the complete answer. There's always going to be a good amount of subjectivity in officiating.

[Hawktawk]

Read that link if you haven't . Food for thought.

[RiverDog]

Read that link if you haven't . Food for thought.

Food for thought is all that it is. It certainly isn't evidence of any kind of "zebra manipulation".

Besides, XL was 17 years ago. I've long since moved on.

[Hawktawk]

See I will never move on . They took our first superbowl away . Jesus man.

And this guy put himself out there and named a couple names . If I was Roger I’d sue this guy out of existence . Maybe just ignore him . Hope it goes away .
Fishy fishy .
But I don’t expect to hear you agree . Your type of attitude is part of the problem with officiating .

[NorthHawk]

The last thing any sports league needs is an Elon Musk type of personality single handedly deciding which calls he likes and which calls he would punish the officials for.
It would drive away most of the legal gambling revenue and turn the sport into a farce.

[RiverDog]

The last thing any sports league needs is an Elon Musk type of personality single handedly deciding which calls he likes and which calls he would punish the officials for.
It would drive away most of the legal gambling revenue and turn the sport into a farce.

Yeah, that's just it. There's way, way too much legitimate, legal money at stake for the NFL to risk something like fixing games.

[curmudgeon]

And the rigging continues…..

[Hawktawk]

The last thing any sports league needs is an Elon Musk type of personality single handedly deciding which calls he likes and which calls he would punish the officials for.
It would drive away most of the legal gambling revenue and turn the sport into a farce.

What? An eye in the sky is a person independent from the crew who would beep the crew regardless of the call /non call . Take coaches out of the loop . Why should I risk losing a time out challenging a bad call ? Why can’t I even challenge an awful no call ? It’s 2022 there’s no excuse . Let the mob run it I guess .

[RiverDog]

The last thing any sports league needs is an Elon Musk type of personality single handedly deciding which calls he likes and which calls he would punish the officials for.
It would drive away most of the legal gambling revenue and turn the sport into a farce.

What? An eye in the sky is a person independent from the crew who would beep the crew regardless of the call /non call . Take coaches out of the loop . Why should I risk losing a time out challenging a bad call ? Why can’t I even challenge an awful no call ? It’s 2022 there’s no excuse . Let the mob run it I guess .

Gosh, we've gone over this ground time and time again. For the umpteenth time, we had a much more liberal replay review, ie your "eye in the sky", back in the 90's and it didn't work. Games ground to a halt only to have the inevitable "after further review, the play stands as called". I had season tickets back then and went to a lot of football games, and let me tell you, it was frustrating sitting there staring at a concrete ceiling. They wouldn't even show the replay on the big screen because they didn't want the crowd to get agitated. It's a huge turn off. There has to be limits on what can be reviewed or else we'd have a game stoppage every 4-5 plays.

I like the system we have now, where critical plays, ie turnovers and scoring plays, are automatically reviewed, everything when the game is under two minutes, and allowing for a team to challenge certain calls.

The system certainly can be improved on. For example, I'd like to see the replay center get more involved with the crew on the field, give them a recommendation to either pick up or throw a flag, and I'd like to see the 1 minute rule for reviews enforced, that if they can't find enough evidence in that amount of time, they default to the call on the field. But no way do I want anything to do with your "eye in the sky."

[Aseahawkfan]

Excuses don't lead to Ws or Championships.

[Hawktawk]

The article I linked alleged a head ref in super bowl Xl was a former client of a betting oddsmaker . He alleged that officials in XL were cheating . There’s 121 refs in the NFL . Are there a group of cops , priests , etc of 121 people where there aren’t some bad apples? Gambling is an addiction like heroin. Cocaine . I find the report I linked very troubling but not surprising .