Panthers Game

[Agent 86]

Holy lick, there is nothing worse as a fan than watching the opponent run the ball down your throat time and time again.

Game by game opponents rushing:

Denver - 103 (5.2 ypc)
San Fran - 189 (4.2)
Atlanta - 179 (5.8)
Detroit - 145 (5.8)
New Orleans - 235 (4.9)
Arizona - 144 (5.1)
LAC - 53 (3.5)
NYG - 78 (2.8)
Arizona - 122 (5.8)
Tampa Bay - 161 (3.7)
Las Vegas - 283 (7.1)
LAR - 171 (5.2)
Carolina - 223 (4.8)

Seahawks are 31st in the league in rushing attempts per game against (424 opponents attempts, or 32.6 per game), 31st in yards against (2086 yards, or 160 yards per game), 28th in yard per carry against (4.9), 30th in rush TD's against (18), and 29th in rushes against resulting in 1st downs (109).

Other than the Chargers and Giants game, it's been pretty much a debacle for the most part. What gives? Talent? Scheme? Injuries? Probably a bit of everything, but as many have trumpeted on this board, the lack of front 7 talent seems to be the main issue. Thank goodness Denver stinks and that pick looks to be top 5, and we should have 4 picks in the top 50 this draft.

When I look at the 49'ers defense right now, I don't see how they can be beat. It's dominating. You want that heading into playoffs cause they will keep you in every game. As we witness from 2012-2016. 49'ers D is not THAT good, but they are as good as it gets in today's game.

[RiverDog]

And coupled with our anemic rushing attack, our defenses inability to stop the run has led to a league worst time of possession stat:

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/t ... %20rows%20

Yesterday, our TOP was nearly a 2:1 ratio in favor of the Panthers, and they are the team with the 2nd to worst TOP stat.

With our defense on the field as much as they have been over these past two seasons, is it any wonder that Seahawk linebackers are always amongst the top tacklers in the league? Bobby was the leading tackler last season, Brooks is leading the league this year.

[NorthHawk]

And coupled with our anemic rushing attack, our defenses inability to stop the run has led to a league worst time of possession stat:

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/t ... %20rows%20

Yesterday, our TOP was nearly a 2:1 ratio in favor of the Panthers, and they are the team with the 2nd to worst TOP stat.

With our defense on the field as much as they have been over these past two seasons, is it any wonder that Seahawk linebackers are always amongst the top tacklers in the league? Bobby was the leading tackler last season, Brooks is leading the league this year.

The tackling numbers are just statistics and are trumpeted by some as a good thing, but it hides the real issues.
If we take a QB first, there should be some pretty good DL in the mid to late part of the 1st and maybe all the way into the 3rd.
It's another one of those drafts where the DL is low on extreme quality but high on volume for very good players.
So maybe it could be another building block type of draft but this time concentrating on the DL.

[RiverDog]

The tackling numbers are just statistics and are trumpeted by some as a good thing, but it hides the real issues.

You're preaching to the choir. It's one of the most misleading statistics that they keep and is worthless unless you put it in some sort of context.

I had a friend and teammate of mine who was a safety for WSU back in the mid 70's. Another friend was bragging about him because he was the third leading tackler in the Pac 8. I asked him what he thought of the Coug's defense if their safety was one of the leading tacklers in the conference, and it made him stop and think. It's sort of like leading the nation in punt yardage.

[Hawktawk]

They had 119 yards AFTER CONTACT…..this year our run defense has allowed numerous backs to achieve single game career highs .
Bruce Irvin called out the team post game , “it’s man on man “.
It’s what I see . Weak . Not everyone but too many guys They aren’t playing hard consistently . There’s no flying to the ball getting hats on the guy .
It’s not schematic and we have holes in the personell but I don’t see an aggressive team . Diggs hid a lot on the back end but not this year . Neal is a stud . But one more observation about our run stopping issues . Our corners suck in run support . It’s part of the job . Sherman was one of the hardest hitting corners I ever saw as was browner etc and of course our safeties.

I think among everything else Hurrt is a disaster . Not inspiring . When they hired him and he started preaching the gospel
I was such a true believer I started rolling on the floor speaking in tongues . Then the games started . That man is lost .

We’d have 10 wins with Ken Norton . We lost games giving up 13,15 , 17 , 19 last year . Same guys for the most part ? Right ?
Hurtt has to go barring some incredible rebound .

[RiverDog]

I was going to say something about Neal. He played his tail off yesterday and was one of the few bright spots on our defense. I'd much rather have him in there than Adams.

[obiken]

We are not what I thought we were, or what HT thought we were, we are what ASHF thought we were, a .500 team.

[Hawktawk]

We are not what I thought we were, or what HT thought we were, we are what ASHF thought we were, a .500 team.

Were actually . 530 team . We have a statistical 56% chance of the postseason after yesterday . We still don’t know . We got a ton of 1 score losses . Way better at this point then anyone but HT thought preseason but I’m bummed . We could have 10 wins easy with any defense and run game . But if we get Geno back to form we got a punchers chance in any game . If we lose Thursday it’s a .500 team but I think 9 wins gets us a WC .
Too early Obi ! 4 games left .

[NorthHawk]

Check out the records of the teams we’ve lost to. There are quite a few sub .500 teams.
Falcons, Saints, Bucs, Raiders, and Panthers were sub .500 when we played them.
A good team wouldn’t lose this many to bad teams.
One or two are OK, but we came up short too many times.

[RiverDog]

We are not what I thought we were, or what HT thought we were, we are what ASHF thought we were, a .500 team.

Were actually . 530 team . We have a statistical 56% chance of the postseason after yesterday . We still don’t know . We got a ton of 1 score losses . Way better at this point then anyone but HT thought preseason but I’m bummed . We could have 10 wins easy with any defense and run game . But if we get Geno back to form we got a punchers chance in any game . If we lose Thursday it’s a .500 team but I think 9 wins gets us a WC .
Too early Obi ! 4 games left .

I have a story about aunts, uncles, and external male genitalia. Wanna hear it?

The 56% playoff chance doesn't impress me at all. It all depends on which teams gets hot at the end of the season, and we've been anything but over the past 4 games.

I do agree that it's too early to be writing us off. But I don't like what I've been seeing lately.

[Old but Slow]

Observation. In watching our running game defense it seems apparent to me that teams are finding it too easy to find open holes to run through. One of the things that I thought I understood about defensive support is that linebackers and safeties should approach running plays as a running back does, that is, find the hole and hit it. Our guys just seem to predetermine where they will go before the snap, and not look for the holes. Neal seems to be the only exception. I spent much of the Panthers game watching Brooks and Barton (hardly the Killer Bees), and they consistently failed to find the running lanes, so all their tackles are 3 to 8 yards downfield.

Coaching? Or do I just not understand?

[obiken]

Check out the records of the teams we’ve lost to. There are quite a few sub .500 teams.
Falcons, Saints, Bucs, Raiders, and Panthers were sub .500 when we played them.
A good team wouldn’t lose this many to bad teams.
One or two are OK, but we came up short too many times.

hey thats a good point NH, we have lost to EVERY team in the NFC South!!

[Hawktawk]

which means were 7-2 vs everyone else. Its parity. Our problems are an inability to run and a far greater inability to stop the run. Its remarkable we have 7 wins .
But there's 4 games left. Based on this year I would true out nothing in any stadium in the league on any sunday. This team has had 4 games of playing really solid defense overall. This team has rushed for over 200 yards in a game . MOST of those players are still active. Its between the ears and in the chest. Too much thinking, not enough attacking. But they are in the position they have been most successful all year. Back against the wall, do it or surrender the division with 3 to go on our field. So let's see. It is a formidable opponent but they are banged up, just lost a key secondary guy for the year along with Samuel being banged up. The rook QB has an oblique.

Lets see. Dallas was moments from losing to the Texans. Mahome likely escaped Denver only due to Clark turning Russells lights off. Other than the Eagles everyone's looked very ordinary a time or 2.

[Hawktawk]

Observation. In watching our running game defense it seems apparent to me that teams are finding it too easy to find open holes to run through. One of the things that I thought I understood about defensive support is that linebackers and safeties should approach running plays as a running back does, that is, find the hole and hit it. Our guys just seem to predetermine where they will go before the snap, and not look for the holes. Neal seems to be the only exception. I spent much of the Panthers game watching Brooks and Barton (hardly the Killer Bees), and they consistently failed to find the running lanes, so all their tackles are 3 to 8 yards downfield.

Coaching? Or do I just not understand?

I think coaching is the biggest factor in the horrible defense. Wyman broke it down, said they are asking guys to read and react and key on too many things instead of attacking gaps downhill. Mental paralysis. And Sunday with Harris out then Woods going out there's just not the beef for a 4-3. Depending on the last 4 weeks lets see but Ill be pretty upset if Hurrt is back next year barring a miraculous run.

[RiverDog]

Observation. In watching our running game defense it seems apparent to me that teams are finding it too easy to find open holes to run through. One of the things that I thought I understood about defensive support is that linebackers and safeties should approach running plays as a running back does, that is, find the hole and hit it. Our guys just seem to predetermine where they will go before the snap, and not look for the holes. Neal seems to be the only exception. I spent much of the Panthers game watching Brooks and Barton (hardly the Killer Bees), and they consistently failed to find the running lanes, so all their tackles are 3 to 8 yards downfield.

Coaching? Or do I just not understand?

Neal has been playing lights out. I'm glad that other astute posters like yourself see the same thing I'm seeing.

What I have seemed to notice is that the sloppy tackling seems to have raised its ugly head again. I think it was HT that posted that our defense gives up the most YAC of any team in the league. I'm not sure how coachable that is as it seems like it should come naturally, like riding a bike.

[Hawktawk]

We gave up 119 after contact Sunday to a 4 win team with no name backs. Its the highest total since Jim Moras pathetic 5 win team in 2009. Its where this D is.
But again I feel like the aftermath of the Saints game getting run over and still being in the game. The notable difference was Geno being off Sunday. We went out vs AZ and rolled them up.

But its do or die now. A game were playing with house money. I have a gut instinct, maybe its gas but that there's more to this team then we've seen recently. Time to show it.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'll repeat what I've been repeating for the past 3 or 4 years: we don't have the talent on the D-line to dictate on defense. Until we do, it doesn't matter who we get on as a coordinator or how we coach up the team, smart offensive coaches will scan the film for weak players and attack them. That is what they've been doing for 3 or 4 years. At least this year we shored up the passing defense because our weak CBs were causing our pass defense to be near the worst in the league for 3 or 4 years. Now we need to build the talent in the front seven after missing on picks for the past 3 or 4 years or more after Bennett and Avril left.

This is a talent issue, has been a talent issue for some years, and I'm glad we have picks to fix it. I'm glad we're not longer watching the pass get as badly gashed as the run. So one part of the defense is fixed. Now we need the front seven rebuilt and this defense will be top 5 or 10 again. But not with the players we currently have. They are not as a group talented enough to get us back into a high ranking. Too many weak players that can be attacked and driven off the line. We need D-line guys who very consistently win their match ups and require additional blocking that draws away from other areas to defend them. If they can straight up beat you in the trenches like our guys are getting beat, then you're going to lose the gap on gap battle.

[Hawktawk]

Yeah I give you credit for being right here . We have some good front 7 players, some very good . None are great game wrecking people .
No Bosa or Donald or even Max Crosby
And we have no depth . Lose 35 year old Al woods and Shelby Harris and it’s shambles .

It’s far worse than in the 4-3 though . We were not this bad on defense last year .

[RiverDog]

We were not this bad on defense last year .

If you go by total yards, yes, we were this bad last year.

Going backwards, here's a list of Pete's defenses ranked by total yards:

2022 (thru 13 games): 28th
2021: 28th
2020: 22nd
2019: 26th
2018: 16th
2017: 11th
2016: 5th
2015: 2nd
2014: 1st
2013: 1st
2012: 4th
2011: 9th
2010: 27th

In summary, if the present trend continues over the next 5 games, in consecutive seasons, Pete will have fielded the two worst defenses he's ever trotted out in green and blue. He's had 4 consecutive seasons where he's fielded defenses in the bottom 1/3 and hasn't fielded a top 10 defense for 7 years after having fielded 6 consecutive top 10 defenses following his initial season. And all this garbage from a coach that was being trumpeted as the best defensive minds of his era. It's why I've been so unsatisfied and was calling for his head at the end of last season and why I'm unwilling to blame it on his defensive coordinator as some have attempted to do.

[Aseahawkfan]

Pete and John have to see the weakness along the D-line. I know some fans try to overlook it and attribute it to coaching, but the coaching hasn't changed much. Pete is one of the best defensive coaches in the league. It is weak talent along the front seven. We had weak talent all across the defense including the secondary, but Woolen and Bryant have fixed that. Now we need the front seven fixed.

I think Brooks is a much better LB than his performance is showing myself. Just like Bobby looking bad the last few years here, Brooks is looking worse because the D-line isn't doing their job of keeping him clean and maintaining their gaps. You gotta win those battles to have a good defense. Our guys don't win enough battles in the trenches. They may have key highlight plays here and there, but consistently winning their matchups they are not.

[NorthHawk]

I said months ago if not years that the bad drafting started around 2014 and we can see the fall off of the Defense as the players that moved on weren't replaced by others anywhere nearly as talented.
Pete started talking about needing to upgrade the Pass Rush about 2016 or 2017 and they still haven't fixed it. In that time frame we've passed by a lot of talented Pass Rushers that were selected by
other teams in the late 1st round to 4th rounds so it seems it was a lack of focus or ability to identify talent. In any event those wasted drafts caused the reduction in overall talent on the team.

[RiverDog]

I said months ago if not years that the bad drafting started around 2014 and we can see the fall off of the Defense as the players that moved on weren't replaced by others anywhere nearly as talented.
Pete started talking about needing to upgrade the Pass Rush about 2016 or 2017 and they still haven't fixed it. In that time frame we've passed by a lot of talented Pass Rushers that were selected by
other teams in the late 1st round to 4th rounds so it seems it was a lack of focus or ability to identify talent. In any event those wasted drafts caused the reduction in overall talent on the team.

His solution was to sell the farm by trading for a blitzing safety, which worked for a few games until offenses got wise.

[NorthHawk]

That was a panic move as they hadn't addressed the pass rush in FA or the draft. Something had to change for it to get some type of relevancy.

[RiverDog]

That was a panic move as they hadn't addressed the pass rush in FA or the draft. Something had to change for it to get some type of relevancy.

Yup. Pete was under the illusion that we were a SB contender and pushed all his chips to the center of the table.

[Old but Slow]

As I see it we are looking at history happening. We have a chance to be the first team to be the 33d worst defense in a 32 team league. Strive for the best!