Rams Game

[RiverDog]

If we can't win this game, then we're done. The Rams are an empty shell of the defending SB champs from a season ago. They are without their starting quarterback, their top receiver, and now, Aaron Donald, unarguably the best defensive player on their squad, has been ruled out. On the other hand, we're relatively healthy, with the only injured player from Sunday that may not play being starting safety Ryan Neal.

As we've discussed in another thread, the running game seems to be our problem. We can't stop it on defense and we can't run it on offense. Statistically, the Rams offense is the 2nd worst in the league, but that's not very reassuring when you consider that the worst running team in the league is the Bucs, and they ran it down our throats a couple weeks ago. On defense, at least statistically, the Rams are stout, with the 4th best run defense and the 10th ranked defense overall.

I'd really love to see us give DJ Dallas some more carries. For whatever reason, Kenneth Walker's production has fallen off a cliff. I'd like to see us give Dallas a couple of series, see if he can do any better.

My prediction is 24-17 Hawks. If our defense can't keep this team from scoring 20, we might as well hang it up.

[Aseahawkfan]

If we can't beat the Rams absent Stafford and Donald, we should feel deeply ashamed.

[NorthHawk]

Not to mention Cooper Kupp and their WR#2.
So what’s our Defensive focus this week, stop the pass like last week?

[Hawktawk]

The player we might not have is the most important one on defense . Neal . We are far better with him out there .
I agree on the game . We should win . Should . Let’s see the reality . It may be Wofford starting . He’s a bit more seasoned . They are beat to smithereens. They have one guy though , Wagner . Don’t sleep on Bobby . He would love to wreck Seattle . I could see them giving him some liberty to free lance to pick a ball or make a sack .
Damn I don’t know . Don’t have a feel for the game at all . What the hell I’ll wing it . Our defense gets its feet back under it with a depleted team . Offense struggles a little this week but it’s a win 24-16.
And we can lose and still go 11-6 although if we lose we’re not done losing imo .

It’s the show .

[Hawktawk]

Not to mention Cooper Kupp and their WR#2.
So what’s our Defensive focus this week, stop the pass like last week?

Lol yeah I don’t know if Pete is having a senior moment or what . He knows better than anyone to win you run and stop the run . I don’t blame them for focusing on the Pass in Munich . Tampa entered the game with the worst rushing attack in the league . But they deviated greatly on offense from what they had ever done in the Brady era . 41 runs , 16 out of the gun . Straight up the gut . Bad field game plan . How they knew it would be when they started putting in the game plan is a mystery . I guess if a guy will deflate footballs he might bribe a groundskeeper to forget to turn off the sprinklers. Not really kidding either . But the game knocked our d@ck in the dirt . Wyman alluded to it today only somewhat jokingly , said the Munich trip had seemed to last a year .

The beating our defense took from the raiders had nothing to do with our game plan . We got beat at the line , beat in coverage , beat trying to rush the passer . I had hoped our defense would return to some semblance of that incredible streak but I think it’s the worst all year . I was worried , this was a balanced team , playoff team last year that added one of the best receivers in the game as well as Chandler Jones . I wasn’t surprised by anything except how bad our D was . We got our ass kicked and Pete got smoked by Josh McDaniel .
So let’s see . This Rams team isn’t nearly as talented a roster as last Sunday . Unless we get the Sofi ref treatment we should be good .

[trents]

It's worth noting that the Raiders may be the best team with a bad record in the NFL. Their losses have not been blow outs.

[RiverDog]

It's worth noting that the Raiders may be the best team with a bad record in the NFL. Their losses have not been blow outs.

I nice way of justifying a terrible loss. The Raiders suck. Their coach damn near lost his job less than halfway through the season. The 3 wins they had before they beat us all came against teams with sub .500 records, Denver times 2 and Houston. Sorry, man. That was a bad loss that shouldn't have happened. If we were half as good as our record, we should have easily beaten the Raiders.

A lot of teams can make an argument about being the best team with a bad record. The 4-7 Jags, for example, have lost just one game by more than a TD, losing to the Chiefs by 10, and beat the Ravens last week, and they own a 28 point win over the Chargers.

[obiken]

Thats it River, we are not what HT thought we were, or what I thought we were, we are what ASHF thought we were: Average.

[Aseahawkfan]

Thats it River, we are not what HT thought we were, or what I thought we were, we are what ASHF thought we were: Average.

Pete's too good a coach to get anything less than 6 to 8 or so wins even with a borderline team. He's still probably top 3 to 5 coach in the NFL. You have Bill B who is clearly the best. You have Andy Reid who is probably number 2. Then John Harbaugh and Pete in that 3 and 4 range. They always seem able to get in that 6 to 8 win category even in a down year with a weak team. If we beat the Rams twice and then Carolina, we're at 9 wins. Then we have Frisco, the Chiefs, and the Jets. The Jets is definitely winnable which gets us to 10. Then we end up 10 and 7 and maybe make the playoffs depending on how the NFC East plays out. So closer to HT's prediction.

I really do believe with a strong D-line draft next year and maybe a good guard or center drafted, we could legitimately contend for a Super Bowl with Geno staying as he is right now next year.

But what we need right now is to upgrade the D-line/OLBs so that our guys can beat their guys at the point of attack: muscle to muscle. Right now it seems a team finds our weak point on the D-line, then attacks it over and over and over again in the run game.

[Old but Slow]

Probably meaningless, but for the Munich game, our biggest DL Mone was not active and TB was able to run up the middle. Then, in the Raiders game, they did not activate Adams, who has shown some pass rush moves, and they did not get a decent pass rush.

Just sayin'.

[Aseahawkfan]

Your D-line must be anchored by players that can do both run defense and pass rush all the time. If you have a player who is good against the run, then bad against the pass or vice versa and a team can adjust the game plan if one player isn't in, then you D-line player has major weaknesses which can be exploited. Players like Bosa and Donald don't care if you run or pass, they are going to shut it down.

[Hawktawk]

Your D-line must be anchored by players that can do both run defense and pass rush all the time. If you have a player who is good against the run, then bad against the pass or vice versa and a team can adjust the game plan if one player isn't in, then you D-line player has major weaknesses which can be exploited. Players like Bosa and Donald don't care if you run or pass, they are going to shut it down.

Yeah Asea on further observation we’re light on depth and we don’t have that one or 2 punch guys like some have that just dominate . We have good , not great D linemen and edges . We have to be disciplined , flow to the ball and gang tackle . We must tackle . Missed tackles are the biggest problem on defense to this day . Safety play minus Neal has been wretched . Diggs got the picks but he can’t tackle in run support . Neal can’t stay healthy . Josh Jones is terrible . He lined up 15 yards off the ball and still didn’t get a finger on Jacob’s on the way by . We signed some first round bust off waivers yesterday that is how bad it is in the safety room .overall the D got dominated . When Al woods gets a stiff arm in the face it tells you how bad it was . Flat footed . They can’t afford another effort like that .

[NorthHawk]

I haven't done much research on this years draft prospects, but there doesn't seem to be the same type of buzz for DL like in past years.
Last year Will Anderson of Alabama was thought to be another TJ Watt or mini Lawrence Taylor - a game wrecking OLB. This year he hasn't got it together like last year.
He's still talented, but he has had a lesser year than last. There are a couple of guys from the SEC that show flashes and some that play pretty well, but there doesn't seem
to be another Derrick Brown, Jeffery Simmonds, or Montez Sweat types who consistently dominate up front. Maybe the bowl games and Combine will uncover a few players
not currently considered or after viewing their athleticism discover they had been playing out of position or scheme. There will be some players that will turn into solid pros
but will they be worth a first round pick? With our DL seemingly in flux between a 3-4 and 4-3, can we find a player that can play both or will we decide what we want to play
and draft accordingly as it doesn't seem to me that we have the personnel to play the defense we are playing at times. It might not bed as quick a fix as we all hope.

[Hawktawk]

It's worth noting that the Raiders may be the best team with a bad record in the NFL. Their losses have not been blow outs.

I nice way of justifying a terrible loss. The Raiders suck. Their coach damn near lost his job less than halfway through the season. The 3 wins they had before they beat us all came against teams with sub .500 records, Denver times 2 and Houston. Sorry, man. That was a bad loss that shouldn't have happened. If we were half as good as our record, we should have easily beaten the Raiders.

A lot of teams can make an argument about being the best team with a bad record. The 4-7 Jags, for example, have lost just one game by more than a TD, losing to the Chiefs by 10, and beat the Ravens last week, and they own a 28 point win over the Chargers.[/quote]

The Raiders blew 17 point leads 4 times, some vs good teams . It was some kind of NFL record. They were a damn talented 3 win team that hadn't put it together yet and I said so repeatedly right here on this forum." I hope they dont put it together Sunday" Direct quote. Said expect a game.
Jacobs had over 900 yards rushing coming into the game and is now leading the league. Davante Adams is also among league leaders. I'm ok not seeing Mad Max Crosby anytime soon and so is Lucas. They just weren't the sum of their parts before. As for Josh Daniels getting fired her just coached a flawless game against a hall of famer. Nobody is licking their chops facing the Raiders at this point in the season.

We should have won, agreed. It doesn't say anything about our record or theirs that we didn't . Its that kind of league this year. It was fair except for 2 huge decisions by the refs both of which could reasonably have gone the other way, one should have or we probably win anyway. But we made enough mistakes for it to be the difference in the game. Just got beat.
But that was not a bad team at all. And we have the makings of a good team. We looked like a great one before the turd on the schedule known as Munich. I think for the second game in a row the coach and team underestimated the challenge and made too many errors in the end. If they lose Sunday they are probably toast although with this new playoff format its possible for a 7 or 8 loss team to get in as long as they understand the playoff start now. I think its why so many 3 and 4 win teams are playing so hard right now.
Let me redo my prediction. Our last game with this terrible a defense was the Saints. I wanted Hurrt fired. Irvin was signed. Adjustments were made. They played great for 4 weeks. I assure you there was a come to Jesus meeting after that one Sunday. Hopefully they can figure it out. People are not realizing what a safety problem we have, how muchy we miss Adams and now Neal hurting. If that's the case we are gonna give up some points period. But lets say we keep it to low 20s rest of the way, less with the rams and our offense quits giving the ball away, K9 gets loose at Sofi.
Seahawks 38
Rams 16
Subject to booth review of course. Hopefully it isn't the 3rd game in a row something weird that Fs Seattle happens.
After the 4 cleanest jobs I've seen out of officials in my lifetime. Lets see. Its sofi.

[Aseahawkfan]

I haven't done much research on this years draft prospects, but there doesn't seem to be the same type of buzz for DL like in past years.
Last year Will Anderson of Alabama was thought to be another TJ Watt or mini Lawrence Taylor - a game wrecking OLB. This year he hasn't got it together like last year.
He's still talented, but he has had a lesser year than last. There are a couple of guys from the SEC that show flashes and some that play pretty well, but there doesn't seem
to be another Derrick Brown, Jeffery Simmonds, or Montez Sweat types who consistently dominate up front. Maybe the bowl games and Combine will uncover a few players
not currently considered or after viewing their athleticism discover they had been playing out of position or scheme. There will be some players that will turn into solid pros
but will they be worth a first round pick? With our DL seemingly in flux between a 3-4 and 4-3, can we find a player that can play both or will we decide what we want to play
and draft accordingly as it doesn't seem to me that we have the personnel to play the defense we are playing at times. It might not bed as quick a fix as we all hope.

If we're moving to a 3-4 permanently, then primarily we need DTs who can do 3-4 gap control. Right now, I'd take shoring up the gap control and run defense with the fat boys on the line. That is the biggest need right now: consistent gap control and run defense. Once you can make a team one dimensional, then they can't dictate to you on offense. They instead have to resort to passing and we have a good enough secondary to handle that better. Right now when they start running on us, it puts the defense in a "guess what we're going to do next" situation. That's the worst place for a defense to be and we been there for years. We need at least one aspect of our defense that is absolutely lights out sure thing. If all we can find is run stuffing 3-4 gap technique DTs and DEs next year, then so be it. As long as we get one more aspect of our defense very, very solid and dictate to opposing offenses: you pass or you don't get anything done.

[NorthHawk]

Oh, I agree, but I’m not yet seeing players that can make an impact like we saw a couple of years ago.
It seems to me that they are a step below the Browns, Simmons, and other clear 1st round picks.
But I think there must be some in later rounds that will surprise, so I wonder who is under consideration
for a top 5 pick outside of a potential OLB in Anderson.

[Hawktawk]

In the LOB we had it on all 3 levels . Excellent talent and depth on the line . Excellent linebacker play . A great secondary . Great corners , one HOF guy . But we had 2 HOF type guys there at SS and FS in ET and Kam. They cleaned up mistakes . I remember 2016 playing the pats and Gronk was steaming downhill and ET came in high and popped him right in the chest . Gronk fell over backwards . Suffered a broken rib on the play . We all remember Kam laying out Denarius Thomas to set the tone for the game . That’s my defensive MVP right there .
We miss dominant safety play more than anything . We don’t have the diggs we’re paying for . He’s a shell in run support , tackling terribly in run and pass . We improved the moment Neal came in but he was all beat up vs the Raiders and was out when Jones gave up the ultimate insult . We miss a healthy Jamaal Adams and what we are seeing with terrible play and huge explosive play is why Pete and john reached on Adams to begin with . I’m old enough to remember a guy named Bob Sanders , a tiny dynamo safety for the colts . Hurt all year on one of the worst defenses in the league . Got healthy for the postseason and was as responsible for that Lombardi as Payton Manning .

When we’re drafting we need to find a beast safety or 2.

[Aseahawkfan]

A beast strong safety would be good too. Diggs is being asked to do too much right now. Diggs is best if he can focus on pass coverage. We need a strong safety to fill the Kam role. Given Adams contract, we'll probably try him for another year. See if he can withstand the physicality of the game one more time.

[Hawktawk]

A beast strong safety would be good too. Diggs is being asked to do too much right now. Diggs is best if he can focus on pass coverage. We need a strong safety to fill the Kam role. Given Adams contract, we'll probably try him for another year. See if he can withstand the physicality of the game one more time.

He’s got to get lucky once doesn’t he ? Penny too. Have other options but I would bring both those guys back .

[Hawktawk]

We brought in a waiver guy , former first round pick in 2017 . Jonathan Abram . Coach him up
Guys . He’s obviously got the body .

[Aseahawkfan]

He’s got to get lucky once doesn’t he ? Penny too. Have other options but I would bring both those guys back .

I would let Penny walk for his long-term health. No use him trying to do what his body is not letting him do and risk more long-term body damage.

Jamal is already a sunk cost. You're not trading him for anywhere near that you got. No one will want his contract. Let him keep trying until you can cut him and clear cap space.

[Hawktawk]

8 players out due to illness at todays practice and some practiced sick too . Can we get a break ?

As for Penny he broke a bone in his leg after 11 injury free starts where he played at an all pro level . I’d give him one more chance . If we don’t someone will .

[Aseahawkfan]

8 players out due to illness at todays practice and some practiced sick too . Can we get a break ?

As for Penny he broke a bone in his leg after 11 injury free starts where he played at an all pro level . I’d give him one more chance . If we don’t someone will .

I'm sure someone will. I feel like the guy's body has told him he can't handle it and he needs to listen. These nagging injuries add up and can cause long-term life issues. If he's managed his money well, he should be set for life and able to transition to a new profession. Why should he continue to risk injury to push on when his body is clearly telling him not to?

[RiverDog]

8 players out due to illness at todays practice and some practiced sick too . Can we get a break ?

As for Penny he broke a bone in his leg after 11 injury free starts where he played at an all pro level . I’d give him one more chance . If we don’t someone will .

I'm sure someone will. I feel like the guy's body has told him he can't handle it and he needs to listen. These nagging injuries add up and can cause long-term life issues. If he's managed his money well, he should be set for life and able to transition to a new profession. Why should he continue to risk injury to push on when his body is clearly telling him not to?

Our injury list looks pretty lame compared to that of the Rams. It's actually pretty much par for the course when you put it in perspective. Are you pre-registering another excuse?

https://www.nfl.com/injuries/

11 injury free starts? Wow! That's impressive!

We are under no great need to resign Penny. I wouldn't have a problem if we brought him back on a team friendly one year prove it deal, but it would be very unwise to put very many eggs in his basket. He's damaged goods, can't stay on the field. I'm good rolling with Walker and Dallas.

ASF is correct. Unless Penny does an imitation of Antonio Brown, he should be set for life. It would be very wise of him to move on to the next stage of his life instead of risking his body to a life altering injury.

[c_hawkbob]

Bones heal, if Penny wants to continue playing I don't think it's time for the NFL to stick a fork in him. It's not like Bam Bam's situation where he could paralyze himself for life. The problem with us giving him one more chance is that he'll be a free agent and would require more of a commitment than another "prove it" deal.

[Hawktawk]

Bones heal, if Penny wants to continue playing I don't think it's time for the NFL to stick a fork in him. It's not like Bam Bam's situation where he could paralyze himself for life. The problem with us giving him one more chance is that he'll be a free agent and would require more of a commitment than another "prove it" deal.

I think it’s a question Pennys value with all the injuries . Nobody including Seattle is giving him a multi year deal . It would have to be another 1 year incentive laden prove you can stay on the field deal .
He already proved he’s a top talent .

This is for River . Bad calls , bad coaching decisions , injuries etc are not excuses . They are facts , explanations . My wish is for healthy players on my team , for officials that are fair and nearly invisible. For equity if we’re going to fly 11 hours to play on a mudhole and emphatically end a 4 game win streak .
I like my team winning and when injury and bad calls and a setup in Munich fs us up
I’m pissed River . Nothing humorous about your act . Odd fan .

[c_hawkbob]

Nobody including Seattle is giving him a multi year deal . It would have to be another 1 year incentive laden prove you can stay on the field deal .

Disagree, someone will give him a go on a 3 or 4 year deal.

[RiverDog]

This is for River . Bad calls , bad coaching decisions , injuries etc are not excuses . They are facts , explanations . My wish is for healthy players on my team , for officials that are fair and nearly invisible. For equity if we’re going to fly 11 hours to play on a mudhole and emphatically end a 4 game win streak .
I like my team winning and when injury and bad calls and a setup in Munich fs us up
I’m pissed River . Nothing humorous about your act . Odd fan .

I'm just giving you a hard time, my friend.

I want my team to win, too, just as much if not more than you do. The fact that I view injuries, field conditions, and officiating differently than you do is irrelevant to our common cause.

[NorthHawk]

There are a number of very good RBs in this draft. Selecting another one in the 2nd would also give us a little extra Cap space.

[RiverDog]

Bones heal, if Penny wants to continue playing I don't think it's time for the NFL to stick a fork in him. It's not like Bam Bam's situation where he could paralyze himself for life. The problem with us giving him one more chance is that he'll be a free agent and would require more of a commitment than another "prove it" deal.

Penny's current injury involves more than a broken bone. He also had two torn ligaments that had to be surgically repaired. And while they heal, too, he's in for another very challenging rehab. While his injury isn't nearly as risky as Kam's was, he's still returning to a very dangerous sport and playing a position that is the most subject to injury in the game. For some reason, injuries follow him around like a lost puppy. No one could blame him if he decided that it wasn't worth it.

Being that Penny didn't get any multiyear contract offers last season, at least none that we know of, I doubt that he'd get any this offseason. But then, again, there are 32 teams in this league, and all it takes is one.

[Old but Slow]

A player to watch in the next draft is J L Skinner, a strong safety from Boise State, as he is being compared to Kam Chancellor. He is a big, fast safety who hits like a ton and can cover. He is being projected as a late first round or second round pick. He has Seahawk written all over him.

[Hawktawk]

Nobody including Seattle is giving him a multi year deal . It would have to be another 1 year incentive laden prove you can stay on the field deal .[/quote]

Disagree, someone will give him a go on a 3 or 4 year deal.[/quote]
Well then he’s gone . Depending on Walkers finish I could see a year with maybe an option . I see someone thinks it’s funny he got a broken leg after excellent play in 11 starts and a broken bone means he’s finished . If Walker regressed greatly maybe you’re forced to give a bit more . Dee Jay is a nice little back as is Homer . Penny can potentially hit a home run any at bat . There is a difference.

[NorthHawk]

That's why you draft another good RB. It's a simple concept - get players who can be available to play most of the time.

[Aseahawkfan]

Disagree, someone will give him a go on a 3 or 4 year deal.

I doubt that. How many times you seen a guy who has missed as much time as Penny get a long-term deal coming off another season ending injury?

[RiverDog]

That's why you draft another good RB. It's a simple concept - get players who can be available to play most of the time.

If we had an opportunity to draft a running back like we did with Walker that dropped out of the first round and providing that we still have our full complement of 1st and 2nd round picks and haven't pi$$ed them away as we have in the past, I could be talked into burning a 2nd rounder on another RB. But the priority has to be the defensive line.

[NorthHawk]

2nd or maybe 3rd round might land us a good RB. There are a number of good ones this year.
It might be hit or miss on the DL this year so if that’s the priority we might end up trading down with one of our 1sts.
Maybe even both depending on Denver’s pick.

[RiverDog]

2nd or maybe 3rd round might land us a good RB. There are a number of good ones this year.
It might be hit or miss on the DL this year so if that’s the priority we might end up trading down with one of our 1sts.
Maybe even both depending on Denver’s pick.

And, of course, drafting a quarterback isn't off the table, either especially if we end up with a pick in the top 3. I don't even think that Hawktawk feels that Geno is the long term solution.

[RiverDog]

It looks like we're going to be pretty healthy vs. the Rams this Sunday. From Gregg Bell of the TNT:

Full Seahawks-Rams injury report for Sunday. All 11 players Pete Carroll had to send him sick this week are likely to play, the coach says. Ryan Neal listed as questionable but signs are he will start again at strong safety.

The 3-8 Rams are an injured all over.

https://twitter.com/gbellseattle/status ... 40427.html

So much for the pre-registered excuses. There is no reason why we shouldn't win this game by at least two scores.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Glad to see the players are over their illness, but that many guys being out or under the weather come game day would be a legit reason to be worried.

Do agree this should be a win. No Stafford, Kupp, or Donald.

[RiverDog]

Glad to see the players are over their illness, but that many guys being out or under the weather come game day would be a legit reason to be worried.

Do agree this should be a win. No Stafford, Kupp, or Donald.

My understanding is that there was a brief, 48 hour illness that was circulating with the team. I was once told that there was no such thing as the 48 hour flu, that a flu virus could not run its course in less than that time and if you got sick then well again within 48 hours, that the cause was most likely food poisoning.