Hawks vs Vegas

[Hawktawk]

Raiders are a dangerous bad team loaded with weapons on offense and some individual standouts on defense . They have blown 17 point leads 4 times this year . Even so if Russ is even decent down the stretch denver wins both those games. Denver has an excellent defense .
It’s how we exit the bye that’s going to be the difference . But I predict a game here .
Hawks 27
Vegas 21

[NorthHawk]

Teams with bad records and good talent can really go off. I don't know if they are at that point, but I would expect that sometime this year they will have a blowout win.

[RiverDog]

The Raiders 3 wins came against teams with a combined record of 4-15-1. They are virtually eliminated from playoff contention and rumors have been circulating about the future of their first year head coach. It will be at home in front of the 12's, and we're coming off a bye so we'll have had plenty of time to rest. There will be no time zone change, no crappy field conditions, and the moon phase for this Sunday is a waxing gibbous.

Hawks 31, Raiders 21.

[tarlhawk]

The Raiders Offense is like a powder keg of explosive whose fuse has gotten damp....but not extinguished. Davonte Adams is one of the few WR that DK has studied and respects. Pete also respects Adams as a WR who could tell you what route he is running and still execute a high probability of making the catch while "covered".

Our Defense needs to minimize the effectiveness of David Carr's use of the play action to uncover Adams and that means shutting down the running element of the Raider Offense which is one of a few teams that still makes wide use of a Full back. Carr is a very capable QB able to make all the varied passes whether inside or outside the pocket or on the run. Our defense has to disrupt his timing when passing while respecting their running game. No NFL team can be looked past because of existing record at the time you meet them. Onward and upward! Go Hawks

[obiken]

The Raiders 3 wins came against teams with a combined record of 4-15-1. They are virtually eliminated from playoff contention and rumors have been circulating about the future of their first year head coach. It will be at home in front of the 12's, and we're coming off a bye so we'll have had plenty of time to rest. There will be no time zone change, no crappy field conditions, and the moon phase for this Sunday is a waxing gibbous.
Hawks 31, Raiders 21.

Right here is no team that we should lose to in the next 7 games except the 9ers and Chiefs, we will lose those two. That would put us at 11-6

[Old but Slow]

I am a little wary of the "waxing gibbous".

[NorthHawk]

We should win but it might be close if we have an issue with stopping the run like against the Bucs.
And if it’s close at the end anything could happen.

[Aseahawkfan]

If we lose to Vegas, not even sure what to think.

[Hawktawk]

If we lose to Vegas, not even sure what to think.

I’ll think we’re 6-5 and scrapping . We’re a 3.5 point favorite over a 3-7 team . There’s reasons . I like our chances , I like we have Woolen to cover Davante Adams . But Carr isn’t throwing a lot of picks, really it’s a mystery how they have 3 wins. Dangerous opponent . Better be ready . If we’re not get ready to be 6-5 .

[RiverDog]

I am a little wary of the "waxing gibbous".

The moon phase should be favorable. It doesn't rise until 2:32pm and kickoff is at 1:05pm, so if it does have a mind to interfere, we should be well into the third quarter by then and have built a large enough lead to overcome it. I'm more worried about that Seahawk voodoo doll that Roger Goodell keeps pushing pins into.

[Hawktawk]

yeah it’s not 6:30 pacific time thank goodness . No jello field , good old field turf . No excuses . But I’ll always stand up for my Seahawks if the playing field isn’t level .

[Old but Slow]

While this could be seen as a "trap game", I think it is offset by the loss in Germany. The team will likely be wanting to prove the loss was an aberation , and so will not let down against the Raidahs.

[RiverDog]

yeah it’s not 6:30 pacific time thank goodness . No jello field , good old field turf . No excuses . But I’ll always stand up for my Seahawks if the playing field isn’t level .

But you're forgetting about Goodell and the refs. It would help if you would pre-register this excuse in the event that we do lose.

[Hawktawk]

yeah it’s not 6:30 pacific time thank goodness . No jello field , good old field turf . No excuses . But I’ll always stand up for my Seahawks if the playing field isn’t level .

But you're forgetting about Goodell and the refs. It would help if you would pre-register this excuse in the event that we do lose. [/quote]

I intentionally left it out because of you but you brought it up so Ill respond. Officiating was critical in our loss to Atlanta and much more so vs the Saints, that was so bad I almost turned it off. 2 of our 4 losses. then we had 4 weeks of great officiating, one week the mariners got more penalties than us .
Then last game a crew I trust and said so to my son pre game picks up 2 critical flags including a game winning TD after a pretty even performance up to that point. there was no justification for picking either up based on video. Haven't heard you weigh in on our QB getting smashed on a slide and the guy rips at the ball too, flag picked up. Not a no call. A conference call. Then another on the GWTD. Pick play but away from the point of attack they said.
Its not a rule in the book. The flag was on the ground. We got wrung up several times vs Atlanta on calls like that, one 60 yards from the play. Not a hold, man downfield engaged with nobody.

What are your thoughts? Geno fumbled? Brady got picked. the trick got picked. Geno had better stats and same amount of turnovers. We couldn't stop them first half. They couldn't stop our passing game second half . The field was terrible, terrible game to watch. as the game was tightening up 2 pickups of big calls benefitting a guy who was already handed the game on a silver platter, anything the league could do to help. We can speculate on the reasons but its just a fact.
. But suck it up hawks. RD wants tough hawks from his couch, not excuse makers. Doesn't care about bad calls or sloppy unsafe fields that negate a quicker team on both sides of the ball.

XL. Maybe I can troll the troll into defending it again like I've seen in the past. Its remarkable .
Your an odd fan, blame your team every time, your coach. Strange. Criticize 13 years of mostly excellence, attack someone who was dead right about our QB along with Pete if he dare bring that up but troll opinions on officials.

I'm here to talk football, predict a game . Any reasonable fan knows we have been screwed with game losing calls or non calls in the past, been helped sometimes in the past and that either is an option Sunday.
Its a real thing, officiating .

[RiverDog]

I intentionally left it out because of you but you brought it up so Ill respond. Officiating was critical in our loss to Atlanta and much more so vs the Saints, that was so bad I almost turned it off. 2 of our 4 losses. then we had 4 weeks of great officiating, one week the mariners got more penalties than us .
Then last game a crew I trust and said so to my son pre game picks up 2 critical flags including a game winning TD after a pretty even performance up to that point. there was no justification for picking either up based on video. Haven't heard you weigh in on our QB getting smashed on a slide and the guy rips at the ball too, flag picked up. Not a no call. A conference call. Then another on the GWTD. Pick play but away from the point of attack they said.
Its not a rule in the book. The flag was on the ground. We got wrung up several times vs Atlanta on calls like that, one 60 yards from the play. Not a hold, man downfield engaged with nobody.

What are your thoughts? Geno fumbled? Brady got picked. the trick got picked. Geno had better stats and same amount of turnovers. We couldn't stop them first half. They couldn't stop our passing game second half . The field was terrible, terrible game to watch. as the game was tightening up 2 pickups of big calls benefitting a guy who was already handed the game on a silver platter, anything the league could do to help. We can speculate on the reasons but its just a fact.
. But suck it up hawks. RD wants tough hawks from his couch, not excuse makers. Doesn't care about bad calls or sloppy unsafe fields that negate a quicker team on both sides of the ball.

XL. Maybe I can troll the troll into defending it again like I've seen in the past. Its remarkable .
Your an odd fan, blame your team every time, your coach. Strange. Criticize 13 years of mostly excellence, attack someone who was dead right about our QB along with Pete if he dare bring that up but troll opinions on officials.

I'm here to talk football, predict a game . Any reasonable fan knows we have been screwed with game losing calls or non calls in the past, been helped sometimes in the past and that either is an option Sunday.
Its a real thing, officiating .

Thanks, guy! You didn't disappoint me!

Happy Turkey Day!

[Hawktawk]

You too RD. Way to debate the salient points after poking the bear . I’m used to it . Enjoy your turkey .

[Hawktawk]

While this could be seen as a "trap game", I think it is offset by the loss in Germany. The team will likely be wanting to prove the loss was an aberation , and so will not let down against the Raidahs.

This isn’t a trap game . It’s a real challenge . If you read the raiders stats it’s close . We have a 4 ppg better offense . That’s it . A more accurate qb . But this team has been in every game and blown huge leads against some good teams . I hope they either don’t get it together or we do . I am more concerned about this one than the next one .

[Aseahawkfan]

Losing to the Raiders would be an embarrassment at this point and clearly show we're not real contenders. That's how I'll feel.

Losing to the Bucs and Brady who have a great defense is one thing, losing to a woefully sad Raiders team would be lame.

I don't expect to lose. Carroll plans to contend this year, so I expect him to have the team ready.

[Hawktawk]

Losing to the Raiders would be an embarrassment at this point and clearly show we're not real contenders. That's how I'll feel.

Losing to the Bucs and Brady who have a great defense is one thing, losing to a woefully sad Raiders team would be lame.

I don't expect to lose. Carroll plans to contend this year, so I expect him to have the team ready.

Not sure which hawks team to expect . If it’s win streak team we’re winning by 20. If there’s a Munich hangover it’s anyones game . I think we will be right . Never know till you tee off though .

[Aseahawkfan]

Hmmm. We really need to draft some D-line next year. This cannot continue into next year.

[mykc14]

Hmmm. We really need to draft some D-line next year. This cannot continue into next year.

Yeah our run D is terrible again and we cannot get pressure on a QB all of the sudden. Also what the heck was up with our OL? We couldn't run and I know Crosby is a dude and Lucas was sick but they were getting pressure up the kid at times too. Really bad defensive performance again and that is a huge issue that needs to be fixed. Interior DL help would be nice for sure!

[c_hawkbob]

Yeah it's hard to win when you can't play defense.

[trents]

The most painful thing to me about the game was that in OT we had the ball at mid field after stopping the Raiders with at least a field goal to win the game after they missed one and quickly commenced to go backwards instead of forward. I was not near a TV during the part of the game and only could follow the action on my phone but there must have been a series of sacks and/or penalties at that point to move us backward out of field goal range. We had the game practically in hand and blew it royal!

[tarlhawk]

Sounds like everyone had the same nightmare....then I realized I was wide awake. Our interior D-Line and our interior O-line....lacking a few trench warriors. No run blocking...no run stopping. Seemed like the Detroit Nightmare all over again....without the good outcome. Onward and upward! Go hawks

[trents]

It seems to me that our opponents have now zoomed in on our weaknesses on defense and are able to develop effective game plans to exploit them and, as well, to take away what we want to do on offense. Even struggling teams like the Bucks and the Raiders are able to do this. Is it because their player talent is better than ours or is it a coaching factor? I've said the before, but I do not think Pete does a particularly good job with scheming. He has a rigid approach to game planning and doesn't think outside the box well. I can't remember the last time we actually outsmarted a worthy opponent with a better game plan or caught an opponent by surprise.

[Aseahawkfan]

They scored 40 points. They been scoring on us all year save for a few games.

I've been beating this drum for years: we need better talent on the D-line. We need to add to the D-line similar talent to what we added to the O-line.

You should not lose a game at home putting up 34 points. 34 points put up by your offense should be a blowout in Seattle against most teams.

Our D-line has been shredded all year but for a handful of games. People thought it was fixed, but it wasn't. It won't be fixed until we draft better D-line guys and at least one pass rusher who can get consistent pressure.

[Hawktawk]

6-11 is a real possibility . That was dreadful . If you can’t stop anyone you can’t win unless you are perfect and we were not . K9 is quietly being a dog , we do miss penny . It appears the team that went 4-0 is awol . All bets are off on 22. Another nauseating afternoon .

[RiverDog]

Yeah our run D is terrible again and we cannot get pressure on a QB all of the sudden. Also what the heck was up with our OL? We couldn't run and I know Crosby is a dude and Lucas was sick but they were getting pressure up the kid at times too. Really bad defensive performance again and that is a huge issue that needs to be fixed. Interior DL help would be nice for sure!

Didn't you see? That field was like Jell-O! It didn't affect a runner like Jacobs who tends to run more north/south, but Kenneth Walker is a cutback runner, and he couldn't get any traction all day. Why else would a runner like him get just 26 yards on 14 carries? It was just a fluke that Jacobs picked up 226 yards on the same field. I think it might have rained there a couple of days ago. Shame on Goodell for making us travel 20 miles to play on that POS field!

But seriously, part of the problem is that we don't take near enough deep shots. That lofty completion percentage of Geno's is nice to look at on the stat sheet, but it has the effect of constricting the field and bottling up our running game.

[Hawktawk]

Seriously RD? Eat it buddy . New week new game . You like starting arguments . Really stupid act . Move on .

[Hawktawk]

Geno wasn’t great . Not the problem not the solution. Out line got ate up probably the worst all year in both run and pass . Asking a sick Lucas to face Max Crosby with no help killed us in crucial 3rd down situations including overtime . As for forum genius / antagonist suggesting we go Russell Wilson and bomb away news flash . When you can’t run and your line can’t block you have no time .besides our air yards is far from the bottom. Geno had a chance for a signature moment and didn’t get it . Like an obviously pist off Carroll said after it was right there and everyone had a hand losing it . That would include him. We’ve taken a premature victory lap . It’s far from a lock now . I guess let’s see . If we lose to Carolina add Pete to the hot seat.

[NorthHawk]

They scored 40 points. They been scoring on us all year save for a few games.

I've been beating this drum for years: we need better talent on the D-line. We need to add to the D-line similar talent to what we added to the O-line.

You should not lose a game at home putting up 34 points. 34 points put up by your offense should be a blowout in Seattle against most teams.

Our D-line has been shredded all year but for a handful of games. People thought it was fixed, but it wasn't. It won't be fixed until we draft better D-line guys and at least one pass rusher who can get consistent pressure.

Pete's been talking about improving the Pass rush since before trading for Clowney so that would put it around 2017 or so.
So 5 drafts and only Darrell Taylor added as a pass rusher, and he's not doing as well as we hoped this year. The addition of Nwosu looks promising at times, but he disappears and with nobody else providing push up the middle, he
is often eliminated as a threat. For years we've had problems along the LoS and this is just a continuation of the same old thing.

They need to get the run stop figured out and if they don't we will be hard pressed to be competitive if we even make the playoffs. It had a feeling like we were sliding back into old habits and that's worrying.

[NorthHawk]

Geno wasn’t great . Not the problem not the solution. Out line got ate up probably the worst all year in both run and pass . Asking a sick Lucas to face Max Crosby with no help killed us in crucial 3rd down situations including overtime . As for forum genius / antagonist suggesting we go Russell Wilson and bomb away news flash . When you can’t run and your line can’t block you have no time .besides our air yards is far from the bottom. Geno had a chance for a signature moment and didn’t get it . Like an obviously pist off Carroll said after it was right there and everyone had a hand losing it . That would include him. We’ve taken a premature victory lap . It’s far from a lock now . I guess let’s see . If we lose to Carolina add Pete to the hot seat.

Geno wasn't the problem at all this game and Maxx Crosby has been dominating OL's all year so there's no reason to think it wouldn't continue.
The problem for teams is how to scheme against a player who is having a career year. Sometimes it's just not in the cards and he changes the outcome of the game.
My concern was the interior of the OL. No holes for the run game and pressure up the middle caused a lot of problems.

In the back of my mind I'm wondering if this isn't the template for teams to beat us. It seems to be where we are soft on both sides of the LoS which is odd because the most common method of building a good Offense and Defense is
starting with strength up the middle. We haven't had that for years - on Defense since the days of Bennett when he moved inside on pass downs and on Offense since Unger anchored the OL.

[obiken]

River, how many times over the years as Hawk Fans, have went into a game thinking that a bad team would be an easy win on the table, and the hunted became the hunter. This was one of those games. I was off, but now it looks like so was HT. It looks like ASHF predicting 8 wins was about right. I am looking down the road and wondering what to do at QB. Geno is a good stop gap but he cannot be the franchise QB 7 years from now. Man, did you see where our RT got pushed right back to GS, I want that guy on our DL!

[NorthHawk]

River, how many times over the years as Hawk Fans, have went into a game thinking that a bad team would be an easy win on the table, and the hunted became the hunter. This was one of those games. I was off, but now it looks like so was HT. It looks like ASHF predicting 8 wins was about right. I am looking down the road and wondering what to do at QB. Geno is a good stop gap but he cannot be the franchise QB 7 years from now. Man, did you see where our RT got pushed right back to GS, I want that guy on our DL!

That’s Maxx Crosby. They’re not letting him go any time soon.
This was a good experience for our rookie Tackles. They were both getting schooled at times and it will help
as their careers unfold. I was expecting to see that at the start of the year but the players we faced weren’t
on top of their game. After Thanksgiving is when teams really separate from the pack either good or bad.
It’ll be interesting to see how they respond this week.

[Hawktawk]

River, how many times over the years as Hawk Fans, have went into a game thinking that a bad team would be an easy win on the table, and the hunted became the hunter. This was one of those games. I was off, but now it looks like so was HT. It looks like ASHF predicting 8 wins was about right. I am looking down the road and wondering what to do at QB. Geno is a good stop gap but he cannot be the franchise QB 7 years from now. Man, did you see where our RT got pushed right back to GS, I want that guy on our DL!

I picked us to win because I have never made a score prediction with us losing . I also felt nervous . Statistically they didn’t look like 3-7 at all . Not a 3 win roster at all . They were coming off a win . We were coming off 2 weeks thinking about a bad loss . I was very concerned. I can pull posts from this thread .

We weren’t ready . For the second week Pete admitted the game plan was containing the passing game , this time Adams . Beyond that Pete has always been a good in game adjustment guy . But on defense we went away from our DB heavy sets to play base a bunch . On offense we didn’t use our 3 tight ends near as much . Geno got beat up , 3 sacks and 10 other hits . Lucas got housed , railed .
As far as who is right or wrong it’s still early . We’ve opened as favorites vs what’s left of the rams . This petty kid or whatever his name is will look like the second coming of Pat Mahomes I’m sure . But I have no sense of what’s going to happen with this team anymore . Geno and the offense have been so much better then most thought but it might take 40+ to win right now .

[NorthHawk]

So you are telling us that Vegas with 2 of their 3 best receivers on IR, the game plan wasn’t to stop the run?
If so, someone needs to step away from the decision making process. That’s a troubling scenario if true.

[Aseahawkfan]

Pete's been talking about improving the Pass rush since before trading for Clowney so that would put it around 2017 or so.
So 5 drafts and only Darrell Taylor added as a pass rusher, and he's not doing as well as we hoped this year. The addition of Nwosu looks promising at times, but he disappears and with nobody else providing push up the middle, he
is often eliminated as a threat. For years we've had problems along the LoS and this is just a continuation of the same old thing.

They need to get the run stop figured out and if they don't we will be hard pressed to be competitive if we even make the playoffs. It had a feeling like we were sliding back into old habits and that's worrying.

This is one of those examples of Pete and John's weak points drafting. It seems sometimes that for years they can't find someone good at a key position.

Pete and John's successful pass rusher drafts: Frank Clark (2nd round) and Jarran Reed (2nd round). Bruce Irvin (round 1) not the pass rusher we wanted for a 15 overall pick, but not a total bust and a pretty good OLB.

Pete and John's pass rushing misses: Boye Mafe not doing this much this year (2nd round). Darrel Taylor (2nd around) not doing much in year 3. L.J. Collier (1st round) total bust. Rasheem Green (2nd round) didn't do much and playing for another team now. Malik McDowell (2nd round) a complete and well-publicized bust for insane reasons beyond Pete and John's control, but they still knew he had character issues which blew up in their face in the worst way.

Pete and John have spent 6 2nd round picks and one 1st round pick on pass rushers for one double digit pass rusher in Frank Clark (2 double digit sack years), Jarran Reed (one double digit sack year that looks like an outlier as he has never come close to equaling it), and Bruce Irvin a mid single digit sack guy who turned out to be a better OLB than a pass rusher.

It's another one of those positions where we spent a lot of draft capital, but haven't gotten a whole lot out of that draft capital. I'm hoping with a couple of high picks or at least one high pick they can find a very good pass rusher. No screwing around with drafting an Irvin to be a LEO. Just do like they did with the OTs they drafted thsi year and draft a guy who is of traditional size and strong in all aspects of D-line play.

[Aseahawkfan]

River, how many times over the years as Hawk Fans, have went into a game thinking that a bad team would be an easy win on the table, and the hunted became the hunter. This was one of those games. I was off, but now it looks like so was HT. It looks like ASHF predicting 8 wins was about right. I am looking down the road and wondering what to do at QB. Geno is a good stop gap but he cannot be the franchise QB 7 years from now. Man, did you see where our RT got pushed right back to GS, I want that guy on our DL!

If the Rams come in here with no Stafford, then we'll likely beat 8 wins as the Rams will be worth two wins they are so bad without Stafford. They aren't great with Stafford, but they're complete crap without him. Though with our interior O-line problems, we could have problems.

But the Chiefs and 49ers might kick the crap out of of us. Jets are a team I'm not sure about. Their record seems to indicate they are better than expected, but who knows.

Those are our last five games. Two our almost guaranteed losses which puts us as 7 losses. Whether the Rams show up to play or not will determine if we can claw out some wins. The Jets is a toss up at this point.

[Hawktawk]

So you are telling us that Vegas with 2 of their 3 best receivers on IR, the game plan wasn’t to stop the run?
If so, someone needs to step away from the decision making process. That’s a troubling scenario if true.

I heard right out of Pete’s mouth they were most concerned with Davante Adams due to the amount of targets he has had each game . They apparently didn’t count on Jacob’s having a record day . But as I pointed out pre game he was averaging 93 yards a game for the year . It’s just a bizarre year . The coach who lost the ability to produce offense has offense and either no defense or great defense . I’ve never seen anything like it . I was back to pining for Norton yesterday . This defensive staff seems incapable of in game adjustment period . I don’t care what you planned for . A drive or 2 into the last 2 games it was clear they are gonna run it right up our yazoo. We’ve given up just under 500 rushing yards last 2 games . Minus Geno morphing into Peyton Manning we’re getting swept out playing like that.

[NorthHawk]

So after being gashed by the Bucs via the run, he didn’t expect the next team to follow suit considering that they
didn’t have their full complement of starting WRs.
Pretty sad, I would say.