Munich

[RiverDog]

Honest question: Has anyone heard any of the players or coaches on either team complain about the time change?

Bruce Irvin complained about the start time and the field conditions. Personally the times zones might have had a small impact, but I think the field had a larger impact. Yes both teams play on the same field and field conditions are never perfectly consistent, but they will tend to favor one type of team over another. I do think that the advantages that our speed gives over Tampa was reduced due to the field. Not blaming the loss on it or complaining about it, just saying I think it was a factor. It's a factor that we need to overcome, but a factor nonetheless (IMO).

That's not exactly what Irvin said. Here's the direct quote from his tweet:

The NFL made us fly 10 hours to play on a terrible a** field like that s**** Krazy,” he said.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/11/14/seatt ... ch-germany

That's not complaining about the time zone change, it's complaining about the long flight.

But I agree with the rest of your post. The field conditions may have favored one team, but not to the degree some are trying to play it up. One argument a person could make is that Tampa Bay is the more flexible, adaptable team while our delicate Seahawks require perfect, sterile conditions in order to succeed.

[tarlhawk]

while our delicate Seahawks require perfect, sterile conditions in order to succeed.

A bit over the top...are you sure you're a genuine fan of the current team? None of the players come across as making excuses...venting is a natural process...

[RiverDog]

while our delicate Seahawks require perfect, sterile conditions in order to succeed.

A bit over the top...are you sure you're a genuine fan of the current team? None of the players come across as making excuses...venting is a natural process...

Go back and re-read what I said. I said that One argument a person could make...

I wasn't necessarily expressing my own personal opinion. I was simply noting one possible POV a person could make after witnessing this debate we've embarked on.

And yes, I'm pretty sure that I'm a genuine fan of the current team as I have been with all Seahawk teams since 1976. I'll put my credentials up against anyone that cares to challenge me.

[Aseahawkfan]

Tarlhawk,

RD's statement was to make light fun of people who think the Seahawks are some "delicate" players who need to have everything perfect to compete or win. He doesn't think that way about the players. He thinks the Seahawks were fine and just got beat with no excuses for the loss like time zone or travel.

I agree with him. You never hear winners making excuses, only teams that lost. Excuses don't change the outcome of games, so no point in making them.

[tarlhawk]

Immediate apologies! I kinda said it in jest...and I kinda didn't...snap reaction. I appreciate the majority of posts here...which is why I come back from time to time. Sorry Riv for any slight. Been watching some Matty F. Brown posts since he just got his reporter credentials to cover Seahawks games even though he lives in the UK.

[I-5]

I didn't see a single person or comment implying the Seahawks are delicate flowers that need perfect conditions to win. That's a misnomer based on what I've seen.

As I said, Bucs outschemed and outplayed us, AND we were at a greater disadvantage with the conditions than we would have been had we played in Tampa. Both can be true. Doesn't seem that complicated.

[Aseahawkfan]

I didn't see a single person or comment implying the Seahawks are delicate flowers that need perfect conditions to win. That's a misnomer based on what I've seen.

As I said, Bucs outschemed and outplayed us, AND we were at a greater disadvantage with the conditions than we would have been had we played in Tampa. Both can be true. Doesn't seem that complicated.

Except one is provable and the other is pure speculation making excuses for a loss to make it seem like Tampa Bay won because of other factors.

Making excuses for losses is extremely common for fans and humans in general for a lot of reasons. But it doesn't change the outcome and is pretty pointless to even do considering Pete's been dealing with time zone changes since he started coaching and does everything in his power to prepare the team for it including going early.

I would say no, both are not true. Only one is provably the true, the other is just fans making excuses for a loss pretending Tampa flying oversees was somehow measurably less taxing on them by some unprovable amount.

[I-5]

Making excuses for losses is extremely common for fans and humans in general for a lot of reasons. But it doesn't change the outcome and is pretty pointless to even do considering Pete's been dealing with time zone changes since he started coaching and does everything in his power to prepare the team for it including going early.

I would say no, both are not true. Only one is provably the true, the other is just fans making excuses for a loss pretending Tampa flying oversees was somehow measurably less taxing on them by some unprovable amount.

Since when is 'provably true' the bar for sharing thoughts on this forum? If that was the case, every poster here would be disqualified at some point. My bar is thoughtful commentary, not necessarily peer-reviewed science.

[obiken]

ASHF, Chuck Knox used to call them losers laments!

[Aseahawkfan]

Since when is 'provably true' the bar for sharing thoughts on this forum? If that was the case, every poster here would be disqualified at some point. My bar is thoughtful commentary, not necessarily peer-reviewed science.

Fans can do what they want. It doesn't change the outcome and won't help the team at all. You gotta be able to win in all circumstances against all obstacles or you're done. That's sports. The NFL is especially tough because you get one game to advance in the playoffs and if you lose it, no amount of excuses is going to change the loss.

The only option Pete has as a coach is to tell his guys to get better because this won't be the last difficult circumstance they will have to overcome if they want to do something in the playoffs this year.

[RiverDog]

Immediate apologies! I kinda said it in jest...and I kinda didn't...snap reaction. I appreciate the majority of posts here...which is why I come back from time to time. Sorry Riv for any slight. Been watching some Matty F. Brown posts since he just got his reporter credentials to cover Seahawks games even though he lives in the UK.

No sweat, Tarl. Apolgy accepted.

[RiverDog]

I didn't see a single person or comment implying the Seahawks are delicate flowers that need perfect conditions to win. That's a misnomer based on what I've seen.

As I said, Bucs outschemed and outplayed us, AND we were at a greater disadvantage with the conditions than we would have been had we played in Tampa. Both can be true. Doesn't seem that complicated.

And I never accused anyone of suggesting that. But a neutral outsider could certainly get that impression. Teams do have to be flexible enough to adapt to unpredictable changes in the flow of the game. Stack the box against the Giants to stop the run and your corners better be flexible enough to play man defense in case they come out throwing. If the field conditions were truly that bad, then it's obvious that Tampa was better equipped to adapt to them than we were. That's a tribute to them, their coaching staff, perhaps even their equipment manager. But maybe it did affect them. You never hear winners complain. Only losers like Bruce Irvin.

I completely disagree that we would have had an advantage had that game been played in Tampa, especially if one was to accept the time zone excuse that so many have been trotting out. You guys forget what Tampa had to go through to get to that game vs. staying at home with their feet propped up in their recliners.

[Hawktawk]

I didn't see a single person or comment implying the Seahawks are delicate flowers that need perfect conditions to win. That's a misnomer based on what I've seen.

As I said, Bucs outschemed and outplayed us, AND we were at a greater disadvantage with the conditions than we would have been had we played in Tampa. Both can be true. Doesn't seem that complicated.

Damn I5 I should just stay off the forum and let you make the point with a tenth of the verbiage . The league did Seattle no favors . The start time clearly favored Tampa by 3 critical hours . The field while not the fault of either team clearly favored the slower less mobile qb , slower defense etc . Walker fell down at least 3 times trying to cut . Both coaches complained .
Pete expounded a bit with the conditions with Brock and Salk , pointed out K9 couldn’t cut and that the edge rushers couldn’t get going at all with their feet sliding . Probably why Irvin went off . These aren’t excuses why we lost . They are explanations why we didn’t blow them away . I’d take a replay on a fast rug in Tampa Sunday . But with all of it including Bowles coaching the pants off Carroll with 16 runs out of the gun right up the gut, perfect bad field game plan . Drop everyone , fill lanes in defense . Outcoached . Still a boneheaded fumble away . Even then get a stop but when you can’t stand up it’s hard to tackle . All the disadvantages they could have won anyway playing a little better . My team doesn’t have to be perfect or win for me to point out when the league screwed us with this matchup or all of us on both teams with an unsafe field that doesn’t allow for the best performance . Both can surely be true .

[NorthHawk]

We were outcoached.
On Offense we went back to Peteball. Absent were the pre snap motion, jet sweeps or fake jet sweeps, throwing short across the middle to the TE's 3 TE sets, and pressuring the edges on the run game.
Instead we saw runs between the tackles and then throws for chunk plays. Just like the last 10 years. Remember that the Defense has to react to what the Offense is doing, just like playing in snow on a
bad surface, it can and does cause players to slip. Some of the times it will be the defender so we did not take advantage of that until it was too late in the game and we couldn't catch up. And catching
up for the win is Pete's preferred style of play. He's said as much in interviews.

On Defense we weren't prepared for them to run. How dumb is that? On a bad field we inactivated one of our better run stoppers and they gutted us up the middle all game. You want those big guys on
an uncertain surface, it's where they are very effective.

[RiverDog]

We were outcoached.
On Offense we went back to Peteball. Absent were the pre snap motion, jet sweeps or fake jet sweeps, throwing short across the middle to the TE's 3 TE sets, and pressuring the edges on the run game.
Instead we saw runs between the tackles and then throws for chunk plays. Just like the last 10 years. Remember that the Defense has to react to what the Offense is doing, just like playing in snow on a
bad surface, it can and does cause players to slip. Some of the times it will be the defender so we did not take advantage of that until it was too late in the game and we couldn't catch up. And catching
up for the win is Pete's preferred style of play. He's said as much in interviews.

On Defense we weren't prepared for them to run. How dumb is that? On a bad field we inactivated one of our better run stoppers and they gutted us up the middle all game. You want those big guys on
an uncertain surface, it's where they are very effective.

I agree with most of that, except that I'm not going to assume that Pete and the Hawks knew just how slippery the surface was going to be. How many workouts did they have on it? Can you tell that it's not a good surface by simply going through the motions on walk thrus or do you need full speed, contact football to make a determination on the surface?

[Hawktawk]

They got no practice on the game field . PC said the practice field was very lush and didn't resemble the playing field. At risk of being a truther Ill just say someone watered the living hell out of that track in Nov in Munich Germany and the Bucs were far better able to deal with it. Part was game plan. But Walkers style is juke off zone read, Carroll admitted they anticipated Tampa to do what they had been doing offensively which is rush for 60 yards a game. Scratch Mone to get another quick twitch edge guy for a 4 man roation. Totally snookered by Tampa but my guess had Pete known the conditions they would have had a different approach. When they put K9 in space they moved it fine but not sure what the Pete ball references were. The back couldn't stand up. We moved the ball throwing every down.The offensive ROTM had 17 yards. The #1 pass and pressure rush defense last month got 1 pressure Mud bog ball was what it was.

[mykc14]

That's not exactly what Irvin said. Here's the direct quote from his tweet:

The NFL made us fly 10 hours to play on a terrible a** field like that s**** Krazy,” he said.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/11/14/seatt ... ch-germany

That's not complaining about the time zone change, it's complaining about the long flight.

But I agree with the rest of your post. The field conditions may have favored one team, but not to the degree some are trying to play it up. One argument a person could make is that Tampa Bay is the more flexible, adaptable team while our delicate Seahawks require perfect, sterile conditions in order to succeed.

Yep, I was listening to the radio a few days ago and they were talking about it, couldn't remember the quote exactly. I thought he was saying something about the early start time as well, but he didn't. It's funny, I actually looked up the quote some time after I posted my comment, saw that it wasn't 100% accurate and thought I had went back and edited my post. Obviously I didn't. I'm pretty busy right now- playoff Football! Off to Moses Lake this weekend to play Chewelah in the quarterfinals! All of my free time is spent watching film.

[RiverDog]

Yep, I was listening to the radio a few days ago and they were talking about it, couldn't remember the quote exactly. I thought he was saying something about the early start time as well, but he didn't. It's funny, I actually looked up the quote some time after I posted my comment, saw that it wasn't 100% accurate and thought I had went back and edited my post. Obviously I didn't. I'm pretty busy right now- playoff Football! Off to Moses Lake this weekend to play Chewelah in the quarterfinals! All of my free time is spent watching film.

Best of luck to you and your team, my friend!

[Hawktawk]

What’s the school ? I know chewelah

[mykc14]

What’s the school ? I know chewelah

Jenkins High School is who we are playing. I coach for Toledo High School.

[mykc14]

Best of luck to you and your team, my friend!

Thanks- we'll give them our best shot!