Contenders and Pretenders

[Hawktawk]

9ers need a qb . Period . It will be their undoing . Just like Dallas . Vikes and Eagles and everyone else in the conference . Not sure where hawks fit . Need to see another game now .

[RiverDog]

9ers need a qb . Period . It will be their undoing . Just like Dallas . Vikes and Eagles and everyone else in the conference . Not sure where hawks fit . Need to see another game now .

Agreed. There seems to be an epidemic with quarterbacking this season. We all thought that Josh Allen was the cat's meow, but he's been horrible the past two weeks. The Cards looked better with Colt McCoy throwing the rock than they have with Murray. Justin Hebert looked so-so. Hurts seems to be more of the game manager, point guard type. The only QB that's shown any consistency has been Mahomes.

Tonight's game will be interesting. I haven't seen that much out of the Eagles, and looking at who they've beaten this year, a lot of weak teams stick out, like the Lions, Jags, Steelers, Cards, and Texans. They've beaten just two teams with winning records, and counting tonight, will face a sub .500 opponent in their next 3 games. They are the only team to have beaten the Vikings, but that was in Week 2, and they beat a Cowboys team that was playing without their starting QB. Things have fallen in line very nicely for them.

[Hawktawk]

I like the eagles coach . He’s got the eye of the tiger . That’s the same roster playing twice as well as last year . You gotta say they are what their record says they are . Hurts is legitimately in the top 5 in most qb metrics .They should easily handle the commanders or we can reassess . Vikes ? What can you say ? Only loss is to the Eagles .
Qb play has been weird around the league . All the name guys down other then Mahomes and he has lost to Indy this year . Our guy is making me nervous . Last 2 games he’s been held down in the first half before breaking out in the second but yesterday was far worse . And his stat line won’t look bad but it was more pumping his personal stats then a reasonable chance to win after the killer fumble . Nobody’s perfect or great all the time but for 2 weeks anyway it looks like teams are figuring out how to slow him down passing the ball . Yesterday it was flooding the lanes creating coverage sacks , maintaining lane discipline to stop designed draws which I believe was what led to the fumble. Geno has been remarkably level headed and mature throughout what has been a whirlwind for him and the team but I think he’s pressing now , feeling pressure to do more . I’m rather proud of the forum for not tearing him to shreds and respecting he’s the qb and helped us get here . But I think he needs a reset , the team needs a reality check and they got it . Still 6-4, control their destiny after 10 games with a bye upcoming . I’ll take it .

[RiverDog]

I like the eagles coach . He’s got the eye of the tiger . That’s the same roster playing twice as well as last year . You gotta say they are what their record says they are . Hurts is legitimately in the top 5 in most qb metrics .They should easily handle the commanders or we can reassess . Vikes ? What can you say ? Only loss is to the Eagles .
Qb play has been weird around the league . All the name guys down other then Mahomes and he has lost to Indy this year . Our guy is making me nervous . Last 2 games he’s been held down in the first half before breaking out in the second but yesterday was far worse . And his stat line won’t look bad but it was more pumping his personal stats then a reasonable chance to win after the killer fumble . Nobody’s perfect or great all the time but for 2 weeks anyway it looks like teams are figuring out how to slow him down passing the ball . Yesterday it was flooding the lanes creating coverage sacks , maintaining lane discipline to stop designed draws which I believe was what led to the fumble. Geno has been remarkably level headed and mature throughout what has been a whirlwind for him and the team but I think he’s pressing now , feeling pressure to do more . I’m rather proud of the forum for not tearing him to shreds and respecting he’s the qb and helped us get here . But I think he needs a reset , the team needs a reality check and they got it . Still 6-4, control their destiny after 10 games with a bye upcoming . I’ll take it .

Brady is having a solid year statistically. He leads in total passing yardage (based on 10 games) and despite leading the league in passing attempts, has thrown just 2 picks, the 2nd one against us and after he had gone nearly 400 attempts without an INT. The Bucs problem has been no running game, a problem we helped them fix yesterday. But I get your point. Rodgers, Dak, Lamar Jackson, Carr, Wentz, Stafford, Herbert, Ryan, all of those guys have had their problems.

[Hawktawk]

Other then TD to int ratio Brady’s numbers are way down for him . And the run game was the difference . Seattle was so confident about a run game averaging 61 yards they left Mone a healthy scratch . I dare say it’s a game we might have been able to use Adams in the box and Penny as a second running option too . Just sayin .
Fubar game . Inturdnational cluster . Move on . Hopefully it doesn’t upset the season . I hope we never go back there .

[RiverDog]

Other then TD to int ratio Brady’s numbers are way down for him.

Not quite. Brady's career completion percentage is 64.2%. This season, he's at 66%. Brady's performance hasn't been the problem for the Bucs this season, and with the exception of those two INT's, he had a solid game against us. Yesterday, he didn't take one sack, yet he was 22-29, so he wasn't pressured into incompletions.

. And the run game was the difference . Seattle was so confident about a run game averaging 61 yards they left Mone a healthy scratch . I dare say it’s a game we might have been able to use Adams in the box and Penny as a second running option too . Just sayin .
Fubar game . Inturdnational cluster . Move on . Hopefully it doesn’t upset the season . I hope we never go back there .

Agreed about the Bucs running game. I'm not prepared to say it was 'the' difference, but it definitely was one of the major differences, at least from the Bucs perspective.

You might as well get used to the international games, and in particular, Germany. There's going to be one game in Germany each year for the next 3 seasons. Each NFL team will be required to play one home game in the international series every eight years, something we have yet to do, so our turn is coming. And if teams have to host a game once every 8 seasons, that means that we'll be a participant once every 4 years.

[NorthHawk]

I don't see why they can't have both teams using an away game for international games.
Make them interconference games so division or conference rivalries aren't affected and no team loses 1 game of home revenue.

[RiverDog]

I don't see why they can't have both teams using an away game for international games.
Make them interconference games so division or conference rivalries aren't affected and no team loses 1 game of home revenue.

Prior to 2021, they haven't been forcing teams to sacrifice a home game to the international series. That's why we've never had to give up a home game. Jacksonville has volunteered to play a home game internationally in every season except for 2020, when it was suspended due to the pandemic.

As part of the league adopting a 17-game schedule in 2021, AFC and NFC teams will alternate seasons where they have nine home games. The host teams for international games will be selected from the conference with the ninth home game, so clubs still will host eight games in their home stadium. For example, since NFC teams have a ninth home game in 2022, four NFC teams will be selected to host an international game that season.

Teams can still volunteer to play home games abroad, just as they have in previous seasons.

Schedule makers will consider the three-week window around the international games to try to find ways to make lengthy travel less of a burden on the teams.

https://saintswire.usatoday.com/lists/n ... -schedule/

But I do agree with you that they should make them all interconference games. Teams that travel well, say like the 49'ers, might not want to play a divisional road game in Germany as they can out-number Rams and Cards fans in their own stadium. And fans in areas with geographically close cities, like the Bengals and Browns, might get cheated out of a rivalry game. But then, again, the home team should have a right to choose where they play.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm interested to see how the Rams play us. That's going to be a key for our season. If the Rams show up with a healthy Stafford intent on beating us, those are going to be some rough games. If the Rams are absent Stafford, should be much easier to maintain a lead in the division.

We got some fights coming. Geno is going to be tested. If he can't step up and win at the end of some tight games which is a test he still hasn't passed, then he's not going to be the man after this year or likely pull a big contract. When GMs are rating QBs, the ability to win in the fourth quarter from behind is one of the biggest factors between the starter and the backup and the size of your contract. If you get smacked down in the fourth quarter of every tight game, no one is going to look at you as the answer to their QB situation because that fourth quarter come from behind win can be a huge factor in the playoffs or in tight division races.

[NorthHawk]

Depending on how long Kupps injury lingers, we might see a Rams team with a limited Offense. They aren’t as good as they were last year and now their #1 WR is dinged up. So it seems that they may go to more of a run based system. Unfortunately for them, that area is underperforming, too. But 3 weeks is a lot of time for rehab and to heal for both Stafford and Kupp.

[RiverDog]

Depending on how long Kupps injury lingers, we might see a Rams team with a limited Offense. They aren’t as good as they were last year and now their #1 WR is dinged up. So it seems that they may go to more of a run based system. Unfortunately for them, that area is underperforming, too. But 3 weeks is a lot of time for rehab and to heal for both Stafford and Kupp.

The Rams offense has been horrible this season even when Stafford and Kupp were healthy. This isn't the same team that won the Super Bowl. They might be the easiest opponent we have remaining on our schedule.

One advantage that we'll have is that 4 of our last 5 games are at home. We only have two more road games for the entire season. I'm not as excited as Hawktawk is, but we have a very good shot at the division title.

[Aseahawkfan]

The Rams offense has been horrible this season even when Stafford and Kupp were healthy. This isn't the same team that won the Super Bowl. They might be the easiest opponent we have remaining on our schedule.

One advantage that we'll have is that 4 of our last 5 games are at home. We only have two more road games for the entire season. I'm not as excited as Hawktawk is, but we have a very good shot at the division title.

The Bucs offense was one of the worst scoring offenses in the league when we lost to them on Sunday. Looks like they bumped up some spots in scoring after beating us. They're 7th from the bottom now.

Their backs are against the wall and it's a division game. That could be a dangerous combination.

[Hawktawk]

They are 4th worst on offense prior to this week which probably didn’t help any . Denver is dead last on offense and first on defense btw
Not gonna call it an excuse but I’m just gonna say Seattle didn’t adjust to the challenges and as such they played quite poorly but we’re still a stop from a chance to win . Carroll alluded to the challenges , some guys unable to sleep , others fine , everyone handling it a bit different . He didn’t make an excuse out of it . But it couldn’t have helped and it’s not a coincidence they played better as the game went along imo.
Not a throwaway game but I think we’re a lot better then Sunday on a dry rug and so bring on these division opponents . Especially the Fing Rams . Genos first real action was a quarter vs them cold as a cucumber. 3 posessions . 98 yard drive with a perfect dime to Dk for the score . Second drive field goal . Third drive moving the ball and Lockett got tripped by a defender on a timing route for a pick. For that quarter Geno threw for 141 yards , 10 points and 22 yards rushing . I never thought he would start for Seattle again but since he is I’m drooling at the mouth over this matchup . DK has a serous chub for Ramsey and was extremely frustrated at beating him and having Wilson ignore or miss him last year vs the rams . Yeah I want this one . 9ers ? We gotta be more like the last 4 then last week or forget it . If we get back on redline in top gear like the last month no problem beating the 9ers

[RiverDog]

They are 4th worst on offense prior to this week which probably didn’t help any . Denver is dead last on offense and first on defense btw
Not gonna call it an excuse but I’m just gonna say Seattle didn’t adjust to the challenges and as such they played quite poorly but we’re still a stop from a chance to win . Carroll alluded to the challenges , some guys unable to sleep , others fine , everyone handling it a bit different . He didn’t make an excuse out of it . But it couldn’t have helped and it’s not a coincidence they played better as the game went along imo.
Not a throwaway game but I think we’re a lot better then Sunday on a dry rug and so bring on these division opponents . Especially the Fing Rams . Genos first real action was a quarter vs them cold as a cucumber. 3 posessions . 98 yard drive with a perfect dime to Dk for the score . Second drive field goal . Third drive moving the ball and Lockett got tripped by a defender on a timing route for a pick. For that quarter Geno threw for 141 yards , 10 points and 22 yards rushing . I never thought he would start for Seattle again but since he is I’m drooling at the mouth over this matchup . DK has a serous chub for Ramsey and was extremely frustrated at beating him and having Wilson ignore or miss him last year vs the rams . Yeah I want this one . 9ers ? We gotta be more like the last 4 then last week or forget it . If we get back on redline in top gear like the last month no problem beating the 9ers

Your stats on the Broncos are a bit off. Yards per game on defense, Denver is 2nd next to the Niners. On offense, they are #22 in YPG. But let's pick it up in the Russell Wilson thread if you disagree.

[trents]

Well, Philly fell from perfection to night. The shot themselves in the foot too often. Refs had a bad night. Reminded me of what Fred Arbanas who played tight end for the Dallas Texans and the Chiefs in the 1960's said to a ref during a game. He was blind in one eye and had a glass prosthesis in the other eye socket. As the story goes, during a game the glass eye popped out and landed in the muddy field. All the players and refs were down on their hands and knees searching for it. One of the refs asked Arbanas, "If you lost the other eye, what would you do for a living?" Arbanas replied, "I'd become a referee."

[RiverDog]

Well, Philly fell from perfection to night. The shot themselves in the foot too often. Refs had a bad night. Reminded me of what Fred Arbanas who played tight end for the Dallas Texans and the Chiefs in the 1960's said to a ref during a game. He was blind in one eye and had a glass prosthesis in the other eye socket. As the story goes, during a game the glass eye popped out and landed in the muddy field. All the players and refs were down on their hands and knees searching for it. One of the refs asked Arbanas, "If you lost the other eye, what would you do for a living?" Arbanas replied, "I'd become a referee."

You're dating yourself with that story.

I guess us Hawks aren't the only victims of refs conspiring against us. I can understand them missing the face mask call, but that roughing the passer that essentially ended the game should have been overruled by someone.

[NorthHawk]

I'm of two minds with that call.
The defender took a couple of steps before sliding into him and he made initial contact to the head.
All he had to do was keep running and if he had to make contact, touch his shoulder or helmet but he made forcible contact.
On the other hand, it wasn't a big hit. But how many times is roughing the passer called when a defenders hand brushes by a QBs facemask or helmet?

The defenders unnecessarily put the referees in a tough position and it bit them in the butt.

[RiverDog]

I'm of two minds with that call.
The defender took a couple of steps before sliding into him and he made initial contact to the head.
All he had to do was keep running and if he had to make contact, touch his shoulder or helmet but he made forcible contact.
On the other hand, it wasn't a big hit. But how many times is roughing the passer called when a defenders hand brushes by a QBs facemask or helmet?

The defenders unnecessarily put the referees in a tough position and it bit them in the butt.

I'm with ya on most of what you said. But the intent wasn't there and it wasn't a viscous hit. They should have realized that and picked up the flag.

I hate seeing games determined by a penalty, especially a roughing the passer call as I feel that the league has gone way too overboard in protecting quarterbacks. But it could be a blessing in disguise, as it might force the league to take another look at this hideous policy of theirs.

[NorthHawk]

Intent doesn't seem to be any factor in hits to a QBs head.
If you look at a lot of roughing the passer there is a glancing blow that does so little damage the QB often has a look of confusion about what the penalty is.
This was completely avoidable by the defender and the play was dead as soon as the QB gave himself up. It was a lack of discipline in my opinion considering
how quick Referees are to calling penalties involving hits to the head.

I agree about the league going overboard with protecting the QBs, but everyone knows the rules by now.

[trents]

Another interesting ref call was the late hit out of bounds called against Philly that really upset the fans. I disagree with the call as such because the receiver was straddling the sideline stripe but what was missed was that two Philly defenders could have been called for targeting against that same receiver before he went out of bounds. Looked like to me they both lowered their heads and made crown of helmet contact with the side of the receiver's helmet as he was nearing the sideline stripe.

[RiverDog]

Another interesting ref call was the late hit out of bounds called against Philly that really upset the fans. I disagree with the call as such because the receiver was straddling the sideline stripe but what was missed was that two Philly defenders could have been called for targeting against that same receiver before he went out of bounds. Looked like to me they both lowered their heads and made crown of helmet contact with the side of the receiver's helmet as he was nearing the sideline stripe.

Yeah, that was a bad call, too. But IMO it wasn't as bad or as consequential as the roughing the passer call at the end of the game.

I have mixed emotions about using replay to correct officiating calls. We all saw how the challenge for a pass interference call/no call a couple years ago got abuse, with coaches using it as a Hail Mary. I also don't like the pace of the game being slowed down, and I think that bad calls are part of the game and one of the things that makes for some interesting debates and controversy. Plus, it's a good lesson in life as our parents used to tell us: Life's not fair, get used to it!

But there's another part of me that feels that where modern technology gives us an opportunity to improve the officiating without interfering with the flow of the game that we should do what we can to improve the officiating. I don't see why someone can't radio down to the crew chief, have a short discussion, and pick up the flag. That's what should have happened on the roughing the passer call last night.

[tarlhawk]

My only "ref beef" was the non-call on offensive pass interference Pete cried for when Tampa receivers blocked downfield prior to ball being released...they told him that it occurred away from where the ball was thrown on the field and in effect didn't aid the play?? I didn't realize that penalty was judgemental as to where it occurs relative to the field position?? ...but I digress...these are experienced refs not replacement refs...right?

[Hawktawk]

My only "ref beef" was the non-call on offensive pass interference Pete cried for when Tampa receivers blocked downfield prior to ball being released...they told him that it occurred away from where the ball was thrown on the field and in effect didn't aid the play?? I didn't realize that penalty was judgemental as to where it occurs relative to the field position?? ...but I digress...these are experienced refs not replacement refs...right?

Just saw this and will respond . There were 2 curious pickups of flags that stood out in an otherwise even officiated game . The first was Geno sliding and the guy not only landing on him but trying to rip out the ball . As obvious a foul as you will see but after the conference it’s picked up in a league that protects QBs. The one on the GAME WINNING TD that was picked up you are correct sir . There is no consideration of spot on field and relationship to the play in the rules . It didn’t help us when Lucas was downfield on a play 60 yards away to DK vs Atlanta . Or an explosive Penny screen taken away on a sketchy hold call on Lewis with penny 5 yards downfield when the fiag was thrown. Those 2 calls helped us wind up in 4th and 18 and then Geno threw a pick so post game it was he can’t win in the end .

A huge pickup of a flag but when you’re the goat you get it all . Opponent starts 6:30 AM, you start 9:30 . Slow field . And a couple critical pick ups of flags . Full meal deal .

[NorthHawk]

He's the luckiest QB in NFL history.
He's been getting the calls since his first year of play. It's nothing new and not because he's who he's become, rather he's just extremely lucky.
At the end of the day, all of the calls even out more or less for each team. It's just inconsistent refereeing.

[Hawktawk]

He's the luckiest QB in NFL history.
He's been getting the calls since his first year of play. It's nothing new and not because he's who he's become, rather he's just extremely lucky.
At the end of the day, all of the calls even out more or less for each team. It's just inconsistent refereeing.

I agree on every thing you said about Brady starting with the tuck rule . Had he lost the game who knows ?

But the goats are all good ( great) and lucky . Think of the ridiculous catches that got Eli 2 Lombardis over Brady . It could be worse .
As for refs I generally agree . But I root for a team that’s never been a favorite of officials . Then in 2005 they were the least penalized team in the league then got rung up to the tune of a dozen or more calls AND NON CALLS. Non calls ….non calls. They are as big as calls , maybe bigger .

In XL the Steelers figured out real quick they could foul with impunity and they did it all game . I’m sorry North that game shell shocked me so bad I’ll never trust the league to be on the up and up every game every week and it’s not incompetence all the time .

Stuff just happens with calls or non call in key game altering situations sometimes . Ask the Saints in the NFC title game . Drew Brees was denied a second trip to the super bowl to cap his career because 5 guys at least swallowed the whistle on a personal foul / pi so violent it was the worst I’ve ever seen .
We had been pretty lucky since the totally biased saints officiating till that weirdness with the picked up flags vs Tompon . But in a field goal league with more parity than ever refs calls and non calls actually decide many games . No Trust at all .