Baby Beast

[RiverDog]

The next draft seems to have quite a few attractive running backs, and a lot of depth, so a later pick might be a good idea. The meat of the running back class may be in the 2d to 4th rounds.

Another 2nd round pick of a RB would be good use. If people think they get hurt too often, remember they come cheap from a Cap perspective and if the Offense is dependent upon a good run game, then it’s imperative to have 2 backs capable of dominating.

The other problem I have with taking a running back in the 1st/2nd rounds is that nearly all of them are not a 3 down player so you're not getting as much utilization out of them as you would with other positions that play a higher percentage of the snaps. Not as much bang for the buck.

[I-5]

If Walker turns out to be the real deal, it’s likely he wouldn’t have lasted much past where we drafted him.

[RiverDog]

If Walker turns out to be the real deal, it’s likely he wouldn’t have lasted much past where we drafted him.

20/20 hindsight?

Walker was a good value at where we selected him, we were in the unusual position of having an excess of picks including two next to each other, and Walker's body type is such that it might make him a little less injury prone, so for those reasons, it wasn't as objectionable of a selection to me as it would have been when we drafted Penny.

Nevertheless, I stand by my position, that I don't like dedicating high draft picks to running backs for two basic reasons: More than any other position, they are subject to injury and they're not on the field as often, requiring more players to fill that slot.

[Hawktawk]

You go up for an elite back. I think he’s better then penny and he was being called the most dangerous back in the league the game before he was injured . Walker is faster which is hard to believe and far more capable of shedding tackles. Dee Jay Dallas and Travis Homer and nice backs but they can’t carry Walkers balls in a wheelbarrow . I don’t know how even a draft wonk with rules about where you took a guy would be happy as a pig in slop about how Walker looks . Fed ex ground player of the week in his second career start . You get what you pay for usually

[RiverDog]

You go up for an elite back. I think he’s better then penny and he was being called the most dangerous back in the league the game before he was injured . Walker is faster which is hard to believe and far more capable of shedding tackles. Dee Jay Dallas and Travis Homer and nice backs but they can’t carry Walkers balls in a wheelbarrow . I don’t know how even a draft wonk with rules about where you took a guy would be happy as a pig in slop about how Walker looks . Fed ex ground player of the week in his second career start . You get what you pay for usually

I'm speaking in generalities, and I specifically said that Walker and the situation we were in with two successive 2nd round picks and Walker's body type made the selection a lot more palatable. All of the things you mentioned about Walker were relative unknowns back in April. If he was considered an elite back, he wouldn't have lasted to the #41 overall.

He was a value pick as he was one of the higher rated RB's and I'm delighted with his performance to this point. If he can stay healthy, we'll have a keeper.

[NorthHawk]

That's fine if you are a primarily a passing Offense with the run there just to distract the Defense, but in a run first or run equal Offense you need a top RB.
They are rarely found late in the draft - some are, of course but the better ones (the RBs that can be game changers) are usually found in the first couple of or three rounds.
And if you want your Offense to continue to be productive after an injury to the starter, you need a top RB in reserve or sharing the load. Treat them like backup QBs and when
one gets to the end of his contract trade him away for a draft pick where you can get another top RB in the draft. This keeps the talent fresh and the Cap hit low. It's ruthless, I know,
but a continued threat at RB is important for most Offenses.

[I-5]

20/20 hindsight?

Walker was a good value at where we selected him, we were in the unusual position of having an excess of picks including two next to each other, and Walker's body type is such that it might make him a little less injury prone, so for those reasons, it wasn't as objectionable of a selection to me as it would have been when we drafted Penny.

Nevertheless, I stand by my position, that I don't like dedicating high draft picks to running backs for two basic reasons: More than any other position, they are subject to injury and they're not on the field as often, requiring more players to fill that slot.

I don't think it's hindsight. Why would the Doak Walker winner from the Big 10 who has outstanding game film, and a healthy history last into Round 3? The only thing pushing him to Round 2 is the perceived lack of value of drafting RB's among 'experts'. Would you have expected Walker to last into the third round? I certainly wouldn't, before we even saw him play in the NFL.

[RiverDog]

20/20 hindsight?

Walker was a good value at where we selected him, we were in the unusual position of having an excess of picks including two next to each other, and Walker's body type is such that it might make him a little less injury prone, so for those reasons, it wasn't as objectionable of a selection to me as it would have been when we drafted Penny.

Nevertheless, I stand by my position, that I don't like dedicating high draft picks to running backs for two basic reasons: More than any other position, they are subject to injury and they're not on the field as often, requiring more players to fill that slot.

I don't think it's hindsight. Why would the Doak Walker winner from the Big 10 who has outstanding game film, and a healthy history last into Round 3? The only thing pushing him to Round 2 is the perceived lack of value of drafting RB's among 'experts'. Would you have expected Walker to last into the third round? I certainly wouldn't, before we even saw him play in the NFL.

You have to look at the context in which I was citing the 20/20 hindsight. HT said that 'if he's the real deal, he likely wouldn't have lasted..." It was a rather curious statement, suggesting that had we known he was the real deal, he wouldn't have lasted? Sounds like 20/20 hindsight to me.

And if you take a look at the underlined portion of my statement, I specifically said that Walker was a good 'value' pick, meaning that the slot we selected him at, ie top half of the 2nd round, was at least worth what we spent on him. The whole point of that paragraph was to say that despite my reluctance to spend high draft picks on running backs, I was OK with this one.

[Hawktawk]

I didn’t mention anything except going up if the value is there. I didnt speculate on whether someone else would take him or when .I know when the hated penny pick was made Js immediately fielded a call from a team widely believed to be the Pats trying to trade for him In terms of evaluation K9 is as big a hit talent wise as anyone Pete has drafted . The Nick Chubbs , Derrick Henry’s , Jonathan Taylor’s are worth the capital . Injuries happen to any skill level back but when healthy there’s a huge difference between a great and good back , more than receivers imo . Walker is drawing comparisons to Layveon Bell . I think he’s better than that but healthy he’s gonna move the needle a ways . Already has . His and Pennys explosive runs are a huge part of our record . Pennys misfortune shows why you need 2 and makes the pick look brilliant . We’re as complete offensively as anyone .

[I-5]

You have to look at the context in which I was citing the 20/20 hindsight. HT said that 'if he's the real deal, he likely wouldn't have lasted..." It was a rather curious statement, suggesting that had we known he was the real deal, he wouldn't have lasted? Sounds like 20/20 hindsight to me.

And if you take a look at the underlined portion of my statement, I specifically said that Walker was a good 'value' pick, meaning that the slot we selected him at, ie top half of the 2nd round, was at least worth what we spent on him. The whole point of that paragraph was to say that despite my reluctance to spend high draft picks on running backs, I was OK with this one.

I don't follow all the comments on each thread, so I took your 20/20 comment as a reply something that I said. I don't know anything about someone saying if he's the real deal. Walker's college resume made him at least a Round 2 or higher pick in my book, regardless of how he would look in the NFL. After all, no one knows how anyone will look in the NFL when they're being drafted. All they have to go by is college, and Walker showed enough to me during his brief stint at Mich State.

[RiverDog]

I don't follow all the comments on each thread, so I took your 20/20 comment as a reply something that I said. I don't know anything about someone saying if he's the real deal. Walker's college resume made him at least a Round 2 or higher pick in my book, regardless of how he would look in the NFL. After all, no one knows how anyone will look in the NFL when they're being drafted. All they have to go by is college, and Walker showed enough to me during his brief stint at Mich State.

The comment I was responding to was within the quote in my reply, but no biggie.

I'm essentially in agreement with you. If I were going to take a running back that high, Walker would be my choice, and I'm not saying that in retrospect. I said it the day we selected him. Any reservations I may have about the draft slot we took him at are with running backs in general, not with Walker specifically.

[obiken]

Ain't nobody Lynch, but Lynch.

But Ken Walker looks good. Glad we have him.

Right, lets find him another nickname!

[Aseahawkfan]

Right, lets find him another nickname!

I think they are calling him K9 because he's got the toughness of a fighting dog or something.

[RiverDog]

Right, lets find him another nickname!

I think they are calling him K9 because he's got the toughness of a fighting dog or something.

He got the nickname in college as like he is with us, his jersey number was 9. Not sure of any canine likeness.

[NorthHawk]

He probably got that nickname because he's got some dawg in him.

[Hawktawk]

That’s exactly it . I think his teammates may have helped. Don’t recall the player but someone said he’s a dog . It’s an awesome nickname . K9. Gonna run you down .

[NorthHawk]

Dameon Pierce of the Texans is probably the best comparison in the NFL today. He runs just like him.
I don't think he's going to last as long as Marshawn, though because he doesn't have the subtle sidestep that ML had to avoid direct hits.

[Hawktawk]

Starting with New York K 9 has been held down . Hopefully not a trend

[I-5]

K9 really impressed me today...not because of ridiculous yardage or highlights, but because of the grit it took to score those last few drives. He plays like a veteran, like our other rookies. It's week 9, and to me it's clear this is the best draft class in history in terms of quality and quantity...and yes, I'm fully aware Irvin, Russ, and Bobby were in the same class.

[RiverDog]

Knock on wood, but he hasn't fumbled yet.

He's not up there with the elite runners yet, like Derrick Henry and Saquon Barkley, but he's in the 2nd tier of RB's, which is damn impressive for his first season. That guy from Jacksonville, Travis E. looks pretty damn good, too.

He's been coming out a lot on 3rd downs in favor of Dallas or Homer, so he's not a 3 down back, but that's probably a good thing in that it limits his touches and lessens his exposure to injury. He's already getting well over 20 carries a game in his 4 starts, of which I'd like to see pared down a bit. I don't want to see him end up like Carson and Penny.

[Stream Hawk]

I heard Caroll compare him to LaDainian Tomlinson. I see it. I also see Gail Sayers and Barry Sanders. But LT could definitely catch the rock, so that would be a nice new dimension to his game.

[Hawktawk]

I heard Caroll compare him to LaDainian Tomlinson. I see it. I also see Gail Sayers and Barry Sanders. But LT could definitely catch the rock, so that would be a nice new dimension to his game.

Its early but K9 is clearly another generational type talent. Hes every bit as talented and physically gifted as anyone in the league. His ability to stay on his feet is as remarkable as anyone. Hes recorded the fastest MPH at nearly 23 MPH. Hes caught the ball several times already and has more 4th quarter TDs than anyone else in the league despite not starting the first FOUR GAMES. He has 7 Rush TD in 4 starts. Much as Penny hes averaging almost 6 ypc. Last week was more of a workmanlike performance but like any bell cow generational type talent he broke though in the second half.

Geno Smith says hes "leading this team". Its too humble, Genos leading the team but K9 is a huge part of this offense. His quote after Sunday" I don't feel like a rookie" indeed what a stud. Hes a workmanlike bell cow guy who can handle as many carries as they want to throw at him. GREAT PICK,

[RiverDog]

Its early but K9 is clearly another generational type talent. Hes every bit as talented and physically gifted as anyone in the league. His ability to stay on his feet is as remarkable as anyone. Hes recorded the fastest MPH at nearly 23 MPH. Hes caught the ball several times already and has more 4th quarter TDs than anyone else in the league despite not starting the first FOUR GAMES. He has 7 Rush TD in 4 starts. Much as Penny hes averaging almost 6 ypc. Last week was more of a workmanlike performance but like any bell cow generational type talent he broke though in the second half.

Geno Smith says hes "leading this team". Its too humble, Genos leading the team but K9 is a huge part of this offense. His quote after Sunday" I don't feel like a rookie" indeed what a stud. Hes a workmanlike bell cow guy who can handle as many carries as they want to throw at him. GREAT PICK,

In your opinion, how many generational talents are there in this league? How did we end up with two of them?

I always thought that a generational talent was a once in 6-8 years player, or 'generation', like an Adrian Peterson or Derrick Henry, or a JJ Watt and Aaron Donald on defense. And even that definition is very liberal as a generation in the demographical sense is about a 20–25-year period. If you use that description of 'generational talent," Walker has a long, long ways to go to get to that level of play. IMO you are way overusing the term.

The reality is that Walker has started just 4 games. Way too early for him to be fitted for his gold jacket.

[Hawktawk]

Its early but K9 is clearly another generational type talent. Hes every bit as talented and physically gifted as anyone in the league. His ability to stay on his feet is as remarkable as anyone. Hes recorded the fastest MPH at nearly 23 MPH. Hes caught the ball several times already and has more 4th quarter TDs than anyone else in the league despite not starting the first FOUR GAMES. He has 7 Rush TD in 4 starts. Much as Penny hes averaging almost 6 ypc. Last week was more of a workmanlike performance but like any bell cow generational type talent he broke though in the second half.

Geno Smith says hes "leading this team". Its too humble, Genos leading the team but K9 is a huge part of this offense. His quote after Sunday" I don't feel like a rookie" indeed what a stud. Hes a workmanlike bell cow guy who can handle as many carries as they want to throw at him. GREAT PICK,

In your opinion, how many generational talents are there in this league? How did we end up with two of them?

I always thought that a generational talent was a once in 6-8 years player, or 'generation', like an Adrian Peterson or Derrick Henry, or a JJ Watt and Aaron Donald on defense. And even that definition is very liberal as a generation in the demographical sense is about a 20–25-year period. If you use that description of 'generational talent," Walker has a long, long ways to go to get to that level of play. IMO you are way overusing the term.

The reality is that Walker has started just 4 games. Way too early for him to be fitted for his gold jacket.[/quote]


You dont get a gold jacket after 4 games? really?
Much as Penny hes a generational TYPE talent and lots of people smarter than you and I are saying it.

Hes a phenom.Hes playing at that level with 4 NFL starts. So far hes been lucky with injury and his style lends more to longevity than say Carson. Penny was the most talented explosive unlucky guy in the history of the league with 2 major leg injuries right as he was breaking out to be one of the best in the league..Now that Derrick Henry missed 2/3rds of last season maybe hes injury prone too. We got 2 generational TALENTS because our gold jacket head coach identified the talent even if his naysayers didn't like the picks.

Its looking brilliant to have selected him as we make a strong push for the division and more.

[RiverDog]

In your opinion, how many generational talents are there in this league? How did we end up with two of them?

I always thought that a generational talent was a once in 6-8 years player, or 'generation', like an Adrian Peterson or Derrick Henry, or a JJ Watt and Aaron Donald on defense. And even that definition is very liberal as a generation in the demographical sense is about a 20–25-year period. If you use that description of 'generational talent," Walker has a long, long ways to go to get to that level of play. IMO you are way overusing the term.

The reality is that Walker has started just 4 games. Way too early for him to be fitted for his gold jacket.

You dont get a gold jacket after 4 games? really?
Much as Penny hes a generational TYPE talent and lots of people smarter than you and I are saying it.

Hes a phenom.Hes playing at that level with 4 NFL starts. So far hes been lucky with injury and his style lends more to longevity than say Carson. Penny was the most talented explosive unlucky guy in the history of the league with 2 major leg injuries right as he was breaking out to be one of the best in the league..Now that Derrick Henry missed 2/3rds of last season maybe hes injury prone too. We got 2 generational TALENTS because our gold jacket head coach identified the talent even if his naysayers didn't like the picks.

Its looking brilliant to have selected him as we make a strong push for the division and more.

You never answered my question: How many generational talents are there in this league? Is Derrick Henry a generational talent? Is Saquon Barkley? Nick Chubb? Can you have 3 or 4 generational talents within a generation? I always thought that the term was used to describe a once in a generation player. You're really laying on the BS.

That's not meant to say that I am not impressed with Walker. I am very pleased and impressed. But he's not on the same plane as Derrick Henry or Saquon Barkley IMO, at least not after 4 starts.

[Hawktawk]

My guess is he blows away their first 4 starts . Once again you are incorrect