Danny O'Neil

[TriCitySam]

If you haven't seen his Twitter post replaying Cowherd, it's worth listening to....I'd share link if I knew how.

[c_hawkbob]

I get the schadenfreude Seattle fans feel over Russ's start.

It's weird seeing his most ardent advocates in the Seattle media scramble to position themselves at the front of the parade celebrating his decline. I'm sure there's a word for this.

There is.

[Hawktawk]

Yeah to be fair there’s a name for a sports jock who has been dead wrong about Wilson who still blames coach , scheme , line , anything but Russ while casting shade on guys who were a lot closer to the truth then him but suddenly they need to be quiet . Whether Wilson likes it he lost fans in the base and in the local media with his attitude and he’s paying the price .

[RiverDog]

Whether Wilson likes it he lost fans in the base and in the local media with his attitude and he’s paying the price .

I actually tend to somewhat agree, especially when you leave out the inflammatory verbiage. Although I'm going to stop short of saying that Russell deserves all or even most of what's been said about him, at least to a certain degree, he's brought a lot of it on himself and my sympathy for him has its limits.

[Aseahawkfan]

I actually tend to somewhat agree, especially when you leave out the inflammatory verbiage. Although I'm going to stop short of saying that Russell deserves all or even most of what's been said about him, at least to a certain degree, he's brought a lot of it on himself and my sympathy for him has its limits.

You don't need to be sympathetic. You don't even need to care. Just as there is no use in sympathizing, there is no use in insulting the man. He's a grown man who hasn't done anything to deserve the personal attacks, but also is working a job paying him 45 million a year and he doesn't need sympathy.

As far as how he's playing on the field, he and his coach deserve serious criticism. They're both doing a terrible job. I'd be losing my mind if I were a Denver fan right now with the way Russ is performing on the field.

As a Seattle fan, I'm happy with the improved draft position and actually wish for Denver to fail every week.

But after this year, I won't even follow Russ and the Broncos. I won't even care.

I just don't take any of this stuff personally. It might turn out both sides are right as in Russ is washed up and done and the team will never win anything substantial with Pete again. We had a good roughly ten year run with these guys, best era of football in Seattle. But everything ends and Russ wanted to take his shot somewhere else. I can understand that. Things grew stagnant here with the same group.

A player wanting to go somewhere else doesn't suddenly turn them into some bad person and it's more a show of your personal character if you have to attack that person like some kind of vulgar jilted girlfriend. Then again humanity has never lacked for these type of people. Never been in line with my personal ethics, but some people don't care and we live in a world of no consequences for vulgar and impolite behavior.

[Aseahawkfan]

I get the schadenfreude Seattle fans feel over Russ's start.

It's weird seeing his most ardent advocates in the Seattle media scramble to position themselves at the front of the parade celebrating his decline. I'm sure there's a word for this.

There is.

That is the word.

I noticed Cowherd has taken to criticizing Russ as it has become a subject of interest that gets clicks and views. And it will be until he plays better or retires.

[obiken]

Yeah to be fair there’s a name for a sports jock who has been dead wrong about Wilson who still blames coach , scheme , line , anything but Russ while casting shade on guys who were a lot closer to the truth then him but suddenly they need to be quiet . Whether Wilson likes it he lost fans in the base and in the local media with his attitude and he’s paying the price .

I

ts 50% Coach, 20% team roster and injuries, and 30% Russ

[RiverDog]

You don't need to be sympathetic. You don't even need to care. Just as there is no use in sympathizing, there is no use in insulting the man. He's a grown man who hasn't done anything to deserve the personal attacks, but also is working a job paying him 45 million a year and he doesn't need sympathy.

I am NOT insulting the man. All I am saying is that at least to some degree, he deserves the criticism and rough treatment that he's receiving. He's never been shy of the camera, indeed, he's made a pretty penny patenting his 'brand', like the Let Russ Cook stuff and other promotional activities. This is the flip side of all that publicity. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Additionally, he was very dishonest and deceptive with his old Seahawk fans that had been loyal to him for 10 years when he very inaccurately implied that he wanted to be a Seahawk for life. It's only natural that many would turn on him.

The media, with guys like Cowherd and Stephen A. Smith, are pouncing on this subject like a chicken on a June bug. This, too, is to be expected and somewhat deserved. They do this sort of thing for a living. They know the publicity surrounding this trade is a very popular topic, and they're taking advantage of it by piling on. Every negative thing that is or has ever been said about Russell has been highlighted, and in some cases, grossly exaugurated.

As far as how he's playing on the field, he and his coach deserve serious criticism. They're both doing a terrible job. I'd be losing my mind if I were a Denver fan right now with the way Russ is performing on the field.

As a Seattle fan, I'm happy with the improved draft position and actually wish for Denver to fail every week.

But after this year, I won't even follow Russ and the Broncos. I won't even care.

I just don't take any of this stuff personally. It might turn out both sides are right as in Russ is washed up and done and the team will never win anything substantial with Pete again. We had a good roughly ten year run with these guys, best era of football in Seattle. But everything ends and Russ wanted to take his shot somewhere else. I can understand that. Things grew stagnant here with the same group.

A player wanting to go somewhere else doesn't suddenly turn them into some bad person and it's more a show of your personal character if you have to attack that person like some kind of vulgar jilted girlfriend. Then again humanity has never lacked for these type of people. Never been in line with my personal ethics, but some people don't care and we live in a world of no consequences for vulgar and impolite behavior.

That's my feelings exactly. Now that Russell is no longer a Seahawk, I couldn't give two chits how his career goes, whether he makes the HOF or if he leaves the game with his tail between his legs. That should not be interpreted as me thinking he's a bad person or that I'm not appreciative of his efforts as a Seahawk and as a citizen concerned about the welfare of others. I just don't have an emotional attachment to any professional athlete. IMO they're all a bunch of overpaid Primadonnas and I'll be damned if I'll ever idolize any of them no matter how nice of a guy they are. As a human being, they are no better or worse than you or me.

[trents]

Yeah, let's move on from Russ. I have some reservations about how he handled the end of his time in Seattle that resulted in the switch of teams but neither have I walked in his shoes and neither do any of us know the entire back story.

I would have no doubt that he may have had second thoughts by now about pressing for the trade to Denver. He's got a lot less to work with on offense there. That, and some apparent decline in his athletic skills are spelling "bad move" for Russ and Denver and "good move" for Pete, John and Seattle. Too bad Russ doesn't play defense because he definitely made an upgrade in that department with going to Denver. Boy, if Seattle had their D we would be set for a deep run into the playoffs this year.

[Aseahawkfan]

I am NOT insulting the man. All I am saying is that at least to some degree, he deserves the criticism and rough treatment that he's receiving. He's never been shy of the camera, indeed, he's made a pretty penny patenting his 'brand', like the Let Russ Cook stuff and other promotional activities. This is the flip side of all that publicity. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Additionally, he was very dishonest and deceptive with his old Seahawk fans that had been loyal to him for 10 years when he very inaccurately implied that he wanted to be a Seahawk for life. It's only natural that many would turn on him.

The media, with guys like Cowherd and Stephen A. Smith, are pouncing on this subject like a chicken on a June bug. This, too, is to be expected and somewhat deserved. They do this sort of thing for a living. They know the publicity surrounding this trade is a very popular topic, and they're taking advantage of it by piling on. Every negative thing that is or has ever been said about Russell has been highlighted, and in some cases, grossly exaugurated.

Seahawks fans are loyal to the team, not the players. The player is loyal to himself, not the team. All the rest is marketing. This idea of player and team loyalty either way is fantasy.

Personally, I don't consider Russ or Pete liars. I just consider all of what they were doing PR for legal reasons. Until things are final, no use stirring the pot of controversy. Others will do that anyway.

As far as the football media, it's their job to find something to get people interested. The most interesting thing to talk about in relation to Denver and Seattle is Russ. Sherm seems to be building a podcast following on Russ's name, so good for him.

I get the fans being pissed. They'll turn on Carroll if he doesn't turn this around (some already have) and I see some of them taking shots at DK with his recent drops. Fans are a fickle bunch that turn on anyone they perceive as the cause of their team losing or just to vent their rage on.

I don't like getting caught up in the emotional rubbish myself. Seems like a waste of time. I know I'm loyal only to the Seahawks. The only reason I ever spoke up is because one person on this forum in particular took the attacks on Russ way too far. I didn't care that much about most other people's criticisms because they were reasonable or understandable. But one guy just had to take it to an unnecessary level of crazy that other people felt like overlooking, but I found to be vulgar and way over the top.

[Aseahawkfan]

Yeah, let's move on from Russ. I have some reservations about how he handled the end of his time in Seattle that resulted in the switch of teams but neither have I walked in his shoes and neither do any of us know the entire back story.

I would have no doubt that he may have had second thoughts by now about pressing for the trade to Denver. He's got a lot less to work with on offense there. That, and some apparent decline in his athletic skills are spelling "bad move" for Russ and Denver and "good move" for Pete, John and Seattle. Too bad Russ doesn't play defense because he definitely made an upgrade in that department with going to Denver. Boy, if Seattle had their D we would be set for a deep run into the playoffs this year.

One more good draft of D-line and we could be back in business. Denver looks to be providing us with some nice high picks to fix the D-line.

[Hawktawk]

Add MRob now. I didn't catch exactly what he said but something about Russ being a fake robot. Thats not a quote but it was an extremely harsh comment from another of the guys in the championship era. Its astounding the guys that won it all have come out now, even though I made a very correct guess that he was an extremely divisive force in the locker room. Its really one of the crazier things I've seen in the league, forget my team. I've been more right about his decline then I thought and more right about his teammates too. Dead right to ask if the Walton's had lost their mind paying that jack without test driving a guy who had won 6 of 16 and lost to 3 backups.

As for fan reactions or other fans thinking they should tell myself or about 75% of the base how, how to react, what words to use well too bad so sad. I have no apologies. I've sat through 2-14, Stan Gelbaugh, Dan McGuire, Jeff Kemp , John Friesz, Kelly Stouffer, 20 years without a playoff win. i watched every game till the end no matter how bad long before 3 or any of those guys showed up.

I've been hard on every Hawk who left the wrong way including lots of the guys criticizing Russel now. But there is no I in team and It became crystal clear a season ago hes forgotten it. Hes gotten what he deserved for insulting every other great player on the team and his great coach who made him, chose him. If Id have been Russ Id have been loyal as a dog till my dying day for what Pete did. No hes earned his hard time but hes got 160 million to salve the wound. Barring a miraculous turnaround hes not going to the Hall but his agent is first ballot.

[RiverDog]

Personally, I don't consider Russ or Pete liars. I just consider all of what they were doing PR for legal reasons.

"Liars" is way too strong of a term, and one that I've never used in reference to either of them. Dishonest, deceitful, or disingenuous is more appropriate. Whether they were doing it for PR or legal reasons, whether it was unavoidable or unintentional, they manipulated the fans into believing that no trade was in the works, which was not true. It contributed to this ugly divorce between Russell and the fan base that we've been witnessing for the past 6 months. That's why I say that Russell deserves at least some of the criticism he's been receiving.

[RiverDog]

Add MRob now. I didn't catch exactly what he said but something about Russ being a fake robot. Thats not a quote but it was an extremely harsh comment from another of the guys in the championship era. Its astounding the guys that won it all have come out now, even though I made a very correct guess that he was an extremely divisive force in the locker room. Its really one of the crazier things I've seen in the league, forget my team. I've been more right about his decline then I thought and more right about his teammates too. Dead right to ask if the Walton's had lost their mind paying that jack without test driving a guy who had won 6 of 16 and lost to 3 backups.

As for fan reactions or other fans thinking they should tell myself or about 75% of the base how, how to react, what words to use well too bad so sad. I have no apologies. I've sat through 2-14, Stan Gelbaugh, Dan McGuire, Jeff Kemp , John Friesz, Kelly Stouffer, 20 years without a playoff win. i watched every game till the end no matter how bad long before 3 or any of those guys showed up.

I've been hard on every Hawk who left the wrong way including lots of the guys criticizing Russel now. But there is no I in team and It became crystal clear a season ago hes forgotten it. Hes gotten what he deserved for insulting every other great player on the team and his great coach who made him, chose him. If Id have been Russ Id have been loyal as a dog till my dying day for what Pete did. No hes earned his hard time but hes got 160 million to salve the wound. Barring a miraculous turnaround hes not going to the Hall but his agent is first ballot.

What Mike Rob was talking about was Russell's style. He believes that it would be a lot more effective if he started calling guys out that were under performing, show a little fire in him, similar to how Tom Brady interacts with his teammates, instead of this everything is rainbows and unicorns persona that we've seen over the past decade. I tend to agree with Mike Rob, but the problem is that type of style is not in Russell's playbook. It's for this reason that I do not believe that Russell is a good leader of men, that he simply isn't cut out for that role. It would be worse if he tried to behave like Brady as it wouldn't be him and players would see through it right away.

There's also the problem of Russell's performance, which has unquestionably been way below accepted standards. If Russell were to start calling out his own guys, it would undoubtedly be interpreted by some of his teammates as the pot calling the kettle black, or avoiding taking responsibility for his own performance by displacing his anger and frustration at others on the team.

It's a tough situation for Russell, as he's in a damned if he does, damned if he doesn't predicament.

[NorthHawk]

Wilson sure hasn’t played well, for sure.

The rainbows and unicorns can work, as Carroll is of a similar vein. But you’re right that it would be very out of character and would
probably be received poorly.
Brady, by comparison is a bit of a jerk so it isn’t a stretch of personality for him to chew someone or group out.

[Hawktawk]

I believe Russ did take responsibility for the 2 picks in the Indy game , said it led to the loss . It’s a start .

I can’t remember him taking it very hard on himself after poor performances starting with Atlanta in the divisional in 16 when he got stepped on by the guard and landed on his ass for a safety . Later he threw an extremity careless pick to end any chance . After the game no mention of his play but just a nonchalant get ‘em next time interview ended with a plug for some stadium deal he was involved with . That’s when my antenna went up, 6 years later here we are . One of the most complicated people / personalities ever in a Seattle uniform of any description .

[RiverDog]

Wilson sure hasn’t played well, for sure.

The rainbows and unicorns can work, as Carroll is of a similar vein. But you’re right that it would be very out of character and would
probably be received poorly.
Brady, by comparison is a bit of a jerk so it isn’t a stretch of personality for him to chew someone or group out.

Pete isn't quite of the same vein as Russell. You can see him getting severely pissed off on the sidelines at the refs, and that can have a positive effect on the team as they see him sticking up for them. And who knows how Pete behaves in the locker room. We know that he does call out players from time to time as it was a complaint from former players that he was calling out others but not Russell.

Agreed about Brady being a jerk, but it seems to work for him. Peyton Manning was known to have gotten into it with his teammates from time to time, too.

At this point, Russell is like a pinata at a birthday party, with everybody and their dog blindly taking a swing at him. And it won't stop until he starts playing well and the Broncos start winning.

[jshawaii22]

As long as it makes for a pair of higher draft picks next year I couldn't care less. One talking head already calling the trade potentially the worst trade ever. OK, I can live with that. That would be twice a trade with Denver worked out for us. The first was the 2nd rounder for Denver's first that netted us ET.
I saw Russ going down for like the past 4-5 years... his slide downhill coincided with his marriage to Ciera. Never was the same "Russ" after that night at the ESPY's where he ignored and didn't sit with his teammates. Must of been one cold locker room.
The insider truth became obvious when players like Sherman, who are now on national TV sets are giving out the same info as we brushed off back when it happened as rumors. They weren't.

[RiverDog]

As long as it makes for a pair of higher draft picks next year I couldn't care less. One talking head already calling the trade potentially the worst trade ever. OK, I can live with that. That would be twice a trade with Denver worked out for us. The first was the 2nd rounder for Denver's first that netted us ET.
I saw Russ going down for like the past 4-5 years... his slide downhill coincided with his marriage to Ciera. Never was the same "Russ" after that night at the ESPY's where he ignored and didn't sit with his teammates. Must of been one cold locker room.
The insider truth became obvious when players like Sherman, who are now on national TV sets are giving out the same info as we brushed off back when it happened as rumors. They weren't.

Interesting that you mentioned the trade that Tim Ruskell fleeced the Broncos out of the pick Pete and John parlayed into ET. That was the same draft where the Broncos actually traded up in the first round to select Tim Tebow.

Ironically, the Broncos HC at the time, and obviously one of the partners in crime on those deals, was Josh McDaniels, who was one and done that season, a fate that may be awaiting Nathiel Hackett if he doesn't get things turned around.

I, too, saw a decline in Russell's skill set, that he had yet to compensate for his aging body, that he no longer makes those Houdini-like mistakes and need to become a more efficient pocket passer. I'm not sure if it went back 3-4 years, but definitely the last two seasons. I felt then that it was correctable with the right coaching, which is one of the reasons I wanted Pete gone.

[Hawktawk]

Well RD you were incorrect about who was responsible . It’s increasingly looking like Pete had Russ in a system that minimized his weaknesses and played to his strengths . Firing Pete and keeping Russ would have been a complete disaster . We would have the 15 point offense . I flirted with the same train of thought but it was clear last year Russ wasn’t listening to Pete or Shane , was freelancing and costing games and then publicly disagreeing with his HC who had pointed out football 101 mistakes that cost us 3 games at least in a 7-10 season . Pete and John couldn’t have been more right .

[NorthHawk]

If you look at how poor a coaching job Hackett and his staff have done, it can't really be said that Wilson's problems are all on him.
Sure, he's played badly, but their whole team is underperforming along with suspect coaching decisions. Sometimes when a team is doing poorly everyone looks bad.

[RiverDog]

If you look at how poor a coaching job Hackett and his staff have done, it can't really be said that Wilson's problems are all on him.
Sure, he's played badly, but their whole team is underperforming along with suspect coaching decisions. Sometimes when a team is doing poorly everyone looks bad.

That be true. Melvin Gordon is just one example. He's lost 4 fumbles in the first 5 games, one of them against us at the goal line that arguably cost them the game. And he has the gall to wonder why he was riding the pine. You can't hang that on Russell.

And calling Hackett's coaching decisions "suspect" is way too generous. They've been disastrous.

[Hawktawk]

If you look at how poor a coaching job Hackett and his staff have done, it can't really be said that Wilson's problems are all on him.
Sure, he's played badly, but their whole team is underperforming along with suspect coaching decisions. Sometimes when a team is doing poorly everyone looks bad.

It’s Russ . He’s completing 59%, 30th in the league . The last few games he’s had guys wide open like KJ Hamler vs Indy even after he had thrown 2 picks it would have won the game . Last week same deal guy wide open in the middle waving his hands , clear throwing lane Russel takes a sack . Aikman was very critical . Said it was all on him. Watching the way he’s playing I get Hackett not wanting to put it in his hands . He’s got a top 5 type d with the worst offense in the league. Fun fact Drew Lock averaged 20 ppg in his denver career . They are scoring 15 this year . This is Russel 22.

[obiken]

It’s Russ . He’s completing 59%, 30th in the league . The last few games he’s had guys wide open like KJ Hamler vs Indy even after he had thrown 2 picks it would have won the game . Last week same deal guy wide open in the middle waving his hands , clear throwing lane Russel takes a sack . Aikman was very critical . Said it was all on him. Watching the way he’s playing I get Hackett not wanting to put it in his hands . He’s got a top 5 type d with the worst offense in the league. Fun fact Drew Lock averaged 20 ppg in his denver career . They are scoring 15 this year . This is Russel 22.

Its 50% Hackett, hes in way over his head and you can see it. 20% overrated roster and injuries, and 30% Russ. Russ is a workout warrior, he has to just realize that running was his fastball, the long deep ball was his out pitch, him trying to be a straight up pocket passer like Drew Breez, would be like Tom deciding I want to be more like Michael Vick sorry, not happening. He has to forget about getting hurt and saving his body for championships and just win games. Hackett has to go, period.

[RiverDog]

It’s Russ . He’s completing 59%, 30th in the league . The last few games he’s had guys wide open like KJ Hamler vs Indy even after he had thrown 2 picks it would have won the game . Last week same deal guy wide open in the middle waving his hands , clear throwing lane Russel takes a sack . Aikman was very critical . Said it was all on him. Watching the way he’s playing I get Hackett not wanting to put it in his hands . He’s got a top 5 type d with the worst offense in the league. Fun fact Drew Lock averaged 20 ppg in his denver career . They are scoring 15 this year . This is Russel 22.

It's more than just Russell. Denver is a mess. They lead the league in presnap penalties with 22, 4 more than the team with the next most. Against us, they got called for delay of game twice in the same series, and they were consistently late getting the plays phoned in and right personnel in the game. That's not all on the QB. It wasn't Russell who decided to try what would have been the longest FG in NFL history kicked in an outdoor stadium at sea level instead of going for it on a very makable 4th and 5.

Sure, Russell is playing horribly. That much is obvious. But the coaching staff is dysfunctional, and it's a big reason why Denver is performing below expectations.

[TriCitySam]

If the media were correct earlier in the year - that RW is basically running the show in Denver when it comes to the offense, scheme, coaches, etc. - and Mark Schlereth on his Denver radio show as much said so, then I wouldn't say it's 50% Hackett. I mean, remember, there were numerous reports that the Hawks staff were frustrated because RW wouldn't run the plays as designed. If above is true, Hackett may be in a situation where it's force fed to him. As I said months ago, players should play and coaches coach.

Point of my post wasn't to pounce on RW (the Denver media is doing a pretty good job of that), but rather Cowherd, who spent a lot of time blaming Pete for wasting RW's career. Never agreed with that. Now they may get it figured out and turned around in Denver. But as of now, JS and PC look pretty good in this deal and the Father Time clock is ticking on RW.

[RiverDog]

If the media were correct earlier in the year - that RW is basically running the show in Denver when it comes to the offense, scheme, coaches, etc. - and Mark Schlereth on his Denver radio show as much said so, then I wouldn't say it's 50% Hackett. I mean, remember, there were numerous reports that the Hawks staff were frustrated because RW wouldn't run the plays as designed. If above is true, Hackett may be in a situation where it's force fed to him. As I said months ago, players should play and coaches coach.

Point of my post wasn't to pounce on RW (the Denver media is doing a pretty good job of that), but rather Cowherd, who spent a lot of time blaming Pete for wasting RW's career. Never agreed with that. Now they may get it figured out and turned around in Denver. But as of now, JS and PC look pretty good in this deal and the Father Time clock is ticking on RW.

We can debate percentages from now into eternity, but the point is that it is NOT all Russell's fault, not even close.

I agree that Pete and John are looking like geniuses, and considering some of the huge, bonehead decisions they've made in the past, they needed this one to go right for them. So far, so good. I sure hope we can say that in January.

And again, we're only in Week 7. There's still 2/3's of the season left, and as poorly as the Broncos have played, there still just 2 games out of first place. Better keep sticking pins into that Russell Wilson voodoo doll.

[TriCitySam]

We can debate percentages from now into eternity, but the point is that it is NOT all Russell's fault, not even close.

I agree that Pete and John are looking like geniuses, and considering some of the huge, bonehead decisions they've made in the past, they needed this one to go right for them. So far, so good. I sure hope we can say that in January.

And again, we're only in Week 7. There's still 2/3's of the season left, and as poorly as the Broncos have played, there still just 2 games out of first place. Better keep sticking pins into that Russell Wilson voodoo doll.

That's your point, my point is this Denver offense has RW's fingerprints all over it.

[Aseahawkfan]

The offense is the same offense Hackett was running with Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay. It's a modified WCO. Russell doesn't know how to design an entire offense, so that wasn't happening out of the gate. Not even sure why people were making that crap up. No QB designs his own offense. He may have more or less input, but the offense is run from some base like WCO or play-action pass or some offensive concept. Denver is no different.

But there's no getting around Russ is sucking. He's missing his receivers, isn't hitting the end zone, and he's not getting it done. If he were playing that badly here, we'd all be pissed. Near the end of last year Russ was getting his mojo back, but he is really having problems learning that new system in Denver. Seems to be locking on to Courtland Sutton and not understanding the route concepts in Denver yet. He's not seeing how the offense moves in the WCO system. Until he understands those route concepts and the moving parts, I think he's screwed.

Sure, some of it is coaching. His offensive line is bad, no doubt. Denver lost their best RB and benched their other guy for fumbling. He doesn't have a Tyler Lockett. But Russ has dealt with all that crap before and performed when he was here and our RB went down injured, our receivers sucked, and our O-line was trash for years. He made it work.

I've been watching every Denver game. My personal assessment is he doesn't seem to get how a WCO runs. He's not understanding the route concepts and does not feel comfortable in that system throwing to the spots he's supposed throw to. His timing with his receivers is off. He is not used to throwing the timing routes of the WCO. Not sure if Hackett shifted from a step system or a counting system or how much differently they run the small details in Denver. But Russ is not in sync with that offense and its concepts. I hope that lasts all year with all the other issues to the tune of a top 5 pick for us.

[RiverDog]

That's your point, my point is this Denver offense has RW's fingerprints all over it.

Of course, it does. Hackett said so when they traded for Russell. No surprise there.

The other thing to remember is that the Broncos have lost two games in OT and another by one point (against us in the opener). Playing the "if your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle" game, they are that close to being 5-1 and leading their division. If just a couple of breaks went their way, we'd be having an entirely different conversation.

But instead, they're 2-4 and the butt of every joke on the internet. Such is life.

[obiken]

It's more than just Russell. Denver is a mess. They lead the league in presnap penalties with 22, 4 more than the team with the next most. Against us, they got called for delay of game twice in the same series, and they were consistently late getting the plays phoned in and right personnel in the game. That's not all on the QB. It wasn't Russell who decided to try what would have been the longest FG in NFL history kicked in an outdoor stadium at sea level instead of going for it on a very makable 4th and 5.

Sure, Russell is playing horribly. That much is obvious. But the coaching staff is dysfunctional, and it's a big reason why Denver is performing below expectations.

Thats it in a nutshell River, the WR corp was overrated, they are not creating separation, they are dropping balls, and the injuries are piling up. The Starting LT is out, the star RB is out, and all the other injuries as well. RW is paid big bucks to put them over the hump, and no question he is not getting it done. The coach however is the biggest problem,. He has no clue and you can see it on his face, he is lost.

[Hawktawk]

That's your point, my point is this Denver offense has RW's fingerprints all over it.

“Of course, it does. Hackett said so when they traded for Russell. No surprise p two games in OT and another by one point (against us in the opener). Playing the "if your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle" game, they are that close to being 5-1 and leading their division. If just a couple of breaks went their way, we'd be having an entirely different conversation.

But instead, they're 2-4 and the butt of every joke on the internet. Such is life.[/quote]


They have one of the worst QBs in the league . God damn man you like to argue . I called all this but Jesus . They are only 2-4 because of Russ. I’ll give him the Seattle game but he’s lost every other one with one of the best defenses in the league . Even in the 11 point niner win he went 3 and out 8 times . He began the game vs the Texans 4-14.

I saw a lot of it last year here but nobody thought much of it . The most stunning thing is the contract before the season . Saw a video of him trying to high 5 teammates at the half Monday and having most walk right by .
They would be better with Lock . Maybe Rypien . Hacketts a joke I predicted he would be but he’s made the right calls to win almost every game .

[Old but Slow]

The reactions to Russell remind me of the time when the fans became hyper critical of Shawn Alexander. The running back with some team records that still stand, and we just saw gain the Ring of Honor, was seen as soft, avoiding contact, and yada yada yada. As fans, we are fickle.

[jshawaii22]

OBS, if I remember, that change to us fan's 'appreciation' of Shawn also came the year after he signed a new, huge contract at 31 or 32? I think this is why Pete has never liked to sign a 3rd deal after 30.

[Aseahawkfan]

The attacks on Shaun started after his comments about not getting the rushing title and then his bad run in the playoffs, then Hutch was gone and Shaun was never the same after Hutch left and his foot injury. Then a segment of the fans kept piling on after that.

It further illustrates the lack of loyalty by fans to players. They don't care if these players sacrifice their bodies to win. Once the player can't perform, the fans turn on them. It's not like Seattle is the only fan base that does, they all tend to do this. I don't know of too many fan bases that don't have a loud and vocal minority who goes after underperforming players or players they don't like or who exhibit attitudes they don't care for. I still remember a lot of fans hating on Sherm, calling him a thug, and saying his behavior was inappropriate. But now they seem to have forgiven him. When Pete first arrived a bunch of fans were hammering on Pete, but that whole group lost their argument years ago.

I defended the hell out of Pete when the fans were hammering on him.

Just comes with the territory of being an sports star and part of an NFL team. There will always be some fan finding some problem with someone. That's why players shouldn't pay it too much mind. The job is the job. The good with the bad.

[RiverDog]

It further illustrates the lack of loyalty by fans to players.

That lack of loyalty cuts both ways. Athletes like Alex Rodriguez, Steve Hutchinson, and now Russell Wilson, intentionally deceiving their fans into thinking that they wanted to stay with their team while behind the curtain, they were secretly conspiring to dump them like yesterday's newspaper. It's given me an apathetic attitude towards their careers, and why I don't wear jerseys with their names or numbers on them no matter how likeable they may appear. Only as it relates to the success of our team do I care about their personal achievements.

Professional athletes are the first ones to parrot the phrase "It's a business", so I'll return that attitude and regard them as a business object just as they have requested. To me, they're an asset, like plant and equipment.

[Hawktawk]

The reactions to Russell remind me of the time when the fans became hyper critical of Shawn Alexander. The running back with some team records that still stand, and we just saw gain the Ring of Honor, was seen as soft, avoiding contact, and yada yada yada. As fans, we are fickle.

This right here ^and the critical fans were correct too. That’s sports , an irrational escape from conventional behavior . Many saw Russ going sideways and he made it oh so much worse with his attitude on the way out , the unnecessary stuff he said to fan the flames . I always hear as fans we aren’t thankful for these great athletes contributions to our teams success . IMO the guys that were born with an Adonis body who were lucky and driven enough and good enough to go to the show are the ones who should be thankful . Making millions , highest paid at their position several times . That’s who should thank God every day .
In the case of previous guy picked over the logical choice , handed a historic defense , a HOF back and coach and receivers with incredible hands , 2 super bowl appearances and a Lombardi in 3 years as a pro . Even after he threw away the second one he was loved by this fan base while winning 3 wild card games in the next 7 years . 2 of those years the LOB was still mostly intact . When the guy starts complaining about the offense and line , floating trade destinations , getting his way and still not able to stop throwing shade I don’t have to be thankful for any of that . He earned this karma. It’s a bitt(h .

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I wouldn’t call it turning on them, but one can call out a messed up situation. Shaun got paid a ton to then promptly fall off a cliff. Perhaps he was owed it for past performance, but it isn’t a good look. Hutchinson deserved to be paid; no guard was doing it better than him, but no one held a gun to his head to accept a deal he knew the Seahawks couldn’t match when he damn well knew the Seahawks were going to extend him.

Russel was special. The Lombardi isn’t acquired without him, but he wasn’t playing his best, and, while there was blame to go around, he didn’t take enough of it himself. Holding the ball to long and making poor decisions like his penchant for throwing deep into coverage when options were open underneath was maddening to watch and was all on him. Now he doesn’t seem to be pulling his game together in setting where he has more pull. Just makes his complaints about the Seahawks ring hollow. I hope he can show better than this for his sake and those of Denver fans; it’ll be a helluva way to end an otherwise nice career, but I’m not going to be upset one way or the other.

[Hawktawk]

I wouldn’t call it turning on them, but one can call out a messed up situation. Shaun got paid a ton to then promptly fall off a cliff. Perhaps he was owed it for past performance, but it isn’t a good look. Hutchinson deserved to be paid; no guard was doing it better than him, but no one held a gun to his head to accept a deal he knew the Seahawks couldn’t match when he damn well knew the Seahawks were going to extend him.

Russel was special. The Lombardi isn’t acquired without him, but he wasn’t playing his best, and, while there was blame to go around, he didn’t take enough of it himself. Holding the ball to long and making poor decisions like his penchant for throwing deep into coverage when options were open underneath was maddening to watch and was all on him. Now he doesn’t seem to be pulling his game together in setting where he has more pull. Just makes his complaints about the Seahawks ring hollow. I hope he can show better than this for his sake and those of Denver fans; it’ll be a helluva way to end an otherwise nice career, but I’m not going to be upset one way or the other.

Hindsight is also 20-20. The correct move was sign Hutch and let SA walk. But it couldn’t be done from a PR standpoint . I’ve heard suggestions Seattle should have signed Clark and traded Wags for a ransom . But same reason . When Russ started talking about trade destinations and getting hit it was time to trade him but they couldn’t take the Pr hit . I think it worked out better this way.


As for Russ he was special in a special time . I’d agree we don’t win it all without him most likely . The playoffs were rocky after winning many great lucky games where Russ was clutch in every instance . We went to the Super Bowl because Sherman got off a brutal uncalled Opi to somehow stay with the guy and elevate and tip it to the alert Smith and rob SF of their second trip to the Sb in as many years . Our offense had hardly salted it away . But in 48 Russ played as perfect a game of Pete ball as I’ve ever seen with his line getting abused and Lynch getting stuffed for 38 yards . I’ve said he should have been co mvp and caught all kinds of hell right here . Flawless . When you don’t punt till late in the 3rd quarter it makes a huge difference in a game for the opposing offense and your own defense . It’s silly as saying Harvin leading in rushing with 2 carries both huge chunk plays into scoring position , a one handed catch for another first down and a house call on a well executed pooch kick that could easily have been 7 the other way . We needed everyone .
They needed each other .

In 2014 vs Green Bay we went to the Super Bowl in spite of him posting one of the worst statistical games by any winning qb in history . In the end he threw a pass to a guy he didn’t even see pre snap to lose the game . As you say he’s spent 10 years bailing out and never changed other than to be more so all the time . I’ve heard reports Hackett has confided Russ is not running the plays as called .

I’ve played a little game in my mind fair or not . What would Luck have done with that defense , back and coach for 5 years ? Cousins ? Foles ? Matt Ryan ? Pick a name . Fouts . Marino . Jim Kelly . Could the LOB get him one ? It’s my point about how many great players never get what he had in 2 years . I don’t need lectures about being thankful enough .

He was special but there were lots of special people . It doesn’t excuse the sports/showbiz personality he’s become that doesn’t seem to resemble the guy who came here 10 years ago . It’s remarkable how he seemingly grates on so many former teammates( and current ones ) as well as now 2 fan bases. As I say he has 160 million to salve the wounds . Crazy story.

[RiverDog]

I wouldn’t call it turning on them, but one can call out a messed up situation. Shaun got paid a ton to then promptly fall off a cliff. Perhaps he was owed it for past performance, but it isn’t a good look. Hutchinson deserved to be paid; no guard was doing it better than him, but no one held a gun to his head to accept a deal he knew the Seahawks couldn’t match when he damn well knew the Seahawks were going to extend him.

Russel was special. The Lombardi isn’t acquired without him, but he wasn’t playing his best, and, while there was blame to go around, he didn’t take enough of it himself. Holding the ball to long and making poor decisions like his penchant for throwing deep into coverage when options were open underneath was maddening to watch and was all on him. Now he doesn’t seem to be pulling his game together in setting where he has more pull. Just makes his complaints about the Seahawks ring hollow. I hope he can show better than this for his sake and those of Denver fans; it’ll be a helluva way to end an otherwise nice career, but I’m not going to be upset one way or the other.

Hindsight is also 20-20. The correct move was sign Hutch and let SA walk. But it couldn’t be done from a PR standpoint . I’ve heard suggestions Seattle should have signed Clark and traded Wags for a ransom . But same reason . When Russ started talking about trade destinations and getting hit it was time to trade him but they couldn’t take the Pr hit . I think it worked out better this way.

We don't know what kind of offers were available for any of those possible trades, but I agree that the PR hit, especially in the case of SA as everyone and their dog wanted to resign him, would have been too much for any coach/GM/owner to take. I would have MUCH rather have resign an All Pro guard than I would an MVP running back about to hit the 30 year old wall.