Pass Protection

[RiverDog]

One thing that I've noticed in our first three games has to do with our pass protection. Overall, our young offensive line has played well, keeping our QB upright and allowing him sufficient time on most occasions. But late in two of our first three games in which the outcome was very much in doubt, we've given up game changing sacks at critical times.

In the 4th quarter against the Broncos and having given up just one sack, we were protecting a 1 point lead and had the ball with less than 5 minutes, needing a couple of first downs to put the game on ice. On 3rd and 6 with less than 6 minutes left, we give up a critical sack that forced us to punt, giving Denver an opportunity to win it with a FG. An almost identical situation occurred in our game vs. the Falcons. We hadn't given up a sack during the first 54 minutes of the game, but with about 5 minutes to go and needing a TD to win, we give up a sack on first down, then later in the same drive, on 3rd and 8 from the Falcons 28 and with under 2 minutes to play, we give up a sack that forces us into a near impossible 4th and 18.

I've heard an analogy used that does a pretty good job of explaining this phenomenon. In boxing, the two boxers will probe each other early in the match, test their opponent for weak spots, and mentally file it for use later in the bout when their opponent gets tired and starts to drop his defenses a little, providing an opportunity for a knockout punch. A similar game within the game might explain how we've been giving up 4th quarter sacks when the protection has been relatively good during the early parts of the game.

This is one of the things that a lot of us cautioned about, particularly as it applies to our two rookie bookends and helps explain why we were less than optimistic about our chances this season.

[c_hawkbob]

Not a bad analogy; we have very talented young rooky Tackles, it's expected that they will do well until the veteran across the line from them figures them out later in the game and begins to get the upper hand. As they gain more experience I think the pass pro late in games will improve.

[Hawktawk]

Geno has contributed to probably half his sacks by not stepping up quick enough . He takes a fairly deep drop as did Russ which can make it tough against top rushers . He has also escaped sacks and made big plays off it . 2 of the defenses our line faced are top notch . Geno took an amazing 13 sacks last year , 1 per quarter . It’s cut in half this year , on a pace for 38 in a 17 game schedule . We gave up 45 last year . I think the line is better at pass blocking than last year already . We’re set at tackle for quite a while .

The run is another story but it’s on another thread too

[NorthHawk]

Experienced and talented DL will set up young inexperienced OL for later in the game when the situation is more important.
We saw that when Cross was beaten a couple of times last game. It's all part of the learning curve all OL have to go through.
The good ones don't let those mistakes become commonplace and the average ones can't overcome their weaknesses. Cross
has the advantage of being quite light on his feet and is said to be a quick learner, so he might have a chance to just
learn and adapt to what DEs/OLBs are trying to do. I have noticed that he has been beaten by defenders who bull rush him.
It was an issue in College but maybe with NFL coaching he can solidify that part of his game.

[RiverDog]

I wouldn't make the assumption that "we’re set at tackle for quite a while." Both our tackles have struggled with their consistency in pass blocking and our rushing offense is one of the worst in the league. PFF ranked our OL 28th overall after the first two weeks, a ranking unlikely to improve after a lackluster performance vs. the Falcons, so they have a lot of work to do. Will both Cross and Lucas rise to the occasion? Maybe, maybe not. I'll be happy if just one of them blossoms into a solid starter.

[NorthHawk]

I wouldn't make the assumption that "we’re set at tackle for quite a while." Both our tackles have struggled with their consistency in pass blocking and our rushing offense is one of the worst in the league. PFF ranked our OL 28th overall after the first two weeks, a ranking unlikely to improve after a lackluster performance vs. the Falcons, so they have a lot of work to do. Will both Cross and Lucas rise to the occasion? Maybe, maybe not. I'll be happy if just one of them blossoms into a solid starter.

Many of us expected there to be some adjustment phase from College to the NFL. Coming from the Air Raid Offenses it's more of a change than it would be for players from a pro style Offense.
I think that barring debilitation injury, both players at T have a chance to be solid players. Given their background, it's expected that the run game would suffer somewhat at least early as they
both learn on the fly about the Pro run game, it's responsibilities, and expectations. We routinely hear from veterans and retired players how in their first years their heads were swimming as the
game was so fast relative to College. Michael Strahan for one said that it didn't slow down until his 3rd year, but everyone is different and maybe we will be lucky and they both will advance quicker
than a couple of years. But one thing is certain, only playing will help them adjust to the NFL and next year they should be much better than today.

[c_hawkbob]

I for one do think (hope) we may be set at tackle for a while. I didn't expect more than what I am seeing. If I see on of them fall off I'll get worried.

[NorthHawk]

I fully expect each of them to have a really bad game or two. Inexperience at some point will get the better of them.

[RiverDog]

I see a lot of potential in both Cross and Lucas, too. But I'm enough of a realist to understand that the odds of two offensive tackles drafted in the same class and onto the same team both end up being quality starters is against it happening. That's why I've lowered my expectations by saying that I'll be happy if one of them makes it. We certainly haven't had a very good track record in developing offensive tackles that we've drafted (Carpenter, Britt, Ifedi).

[mykc14]

I am very happy with our rookie tackles so far actually think that, barring injuries, both have a floor as average starters in the NFL and very high ceilings. As far as our pass protection goes it has been very good. I wonder how much of that has to do with the fact that RW isn't QB anymore.

[NorthHawk]

I am very happy with our rookie tackles so far actually think that, barring injuries, both have a floor as average starters in the NFL and very high ceilings. As far as our pass protection goes it has been very good. I wonder how much of that has to do with the fact that RW isn't QB anymore.

Maybe a little as the game plan seems to be get the ball out quickly but that hurts the chunk plays that's part of Peteball.

[Hawktawk]

Whatever the reason we had 1 3 and out the entire game Sunday. The problem was with our terrible defense we only had 8 possessions , 3 in the second half despite winning TOP

Last year we had 4 3 and outs in a row in 3 separate games and in one of them we followed up the 4 3 and outs with a 4 and out . Former guy had 8 3 and outs Sunday night . So who knows . Lots of weird stats with former and current guy .

We’re doing lots of good things in the pass game and the run game is close . We ran a little bit on Denver and anything we did on offense in that game looks better by the day . I think on offense it’s our interior line holding us back . I see these tackles as very solid . Very .

[RiverDog]

Whatever the reason we had 1 3 and out the entire game Sunday. The problem was with our terrible defense we only had 8 possessions , 3 in the second half despite winning TOP

Last year we had 4 3 and outs in a row in 3 separate games and in one of them we followed up the 4 3 and outs with a 4 and out . Former guy had 8 3 and outs Sunday night . So who knows . Lots of weird stats with former and current guy .

We’re doing lots of good things in the pass game and the run game is close . We ran a little bit on Denver and anything we did on offense in that game looks better by the day . I think on offense it’s our interior line holding us back . I see these tackles as very solid . Very .

We're ranked 27th in total offense, 29th in rushing yards, 24th in rushing yards per attempt, 28th in points per game (and that counts the blocked FG), 26th in rushing first downs, 31st in red zone scoring percentage, and we have yet to score our first rushing TD. Our feature back, Rashaad Penny, is ranked 28th in rushing yards, 27th in yards per attempt, and 28th in longest run from scrimmage. No other Seahawk RB has more than 30 yards total in 3 games. If you think it's looking better every day, then you're sure easy to please.

[Aseahawkfan]

We're ranked 27th in total offense, 29th in rushing yards, 24th in rushing yards per attempt, 28th in points per game (and that counts the blocked FG), 26th in rushing first downs, 31st in red zone scoring percentage, and we have yet to score our first rushing TD. Our feature back, Rashaad Penny, is ranked 28th in rushing yards and 27th in yards per attempt, and no other Seahawk RB has more than 30 yards total in 3 games. If you think it's looking better every day, then you're sure easy to please.

When you don't have a credible passing threat, you can sell out to stop the run. And as efficient as Geno has been, no one fears him. So they stack to stop the run. Most teams know if you get a lead in the fourth quarter, Geno isn't going to beat you. Geno is doing a great job running a very conservative, short dump off passing game. When he tries to throw deeper, well, you saw what happened. We went to an up tempo offense and eventually the defense locked us down. Defenses don't have to work that hard to stop our offense. Until we get the run game going, Geno's efficient, easy to stop passing isn't going to get it done.

[RiverDog]

We're ranked 27th in total offense, 29th in rushing yards, 24th in rushing yards per attempt, 28th in points per game (and that counts the blocked FG), 26th in rushing first downs, 31st in red zone scoring percentage, and we have yet to score our first rushing TD. Our feature back, Rashaad Penny, is ranked 28th in rushing yards and 27th in yards per attempt, and no other Seahawk RB has more than 30 yards total in 3 games. If you think it's looking better every day, then you're sure easy to please.

When you don't have a credible passing threat, you can sell out to stop the run. And as efficient as Geno has been, no one fears him. So they stack to stop the run. Most teams know if you get a lead in the fourth quarter, Geno isn't going to beat you. Geno is doing a great job running a very conservative, short dump off passing game. When he tries to throw deeper, well, you saw what happened. We went to an up tempo offense and eventually the defense locked us down. Defenses don't have to work that hard to stop our offense. Until we get the run game going, Geno's efficient, easy to stop passing isn't going to get it done.

Plus when you take a look at our 31st ranking in red zone efficiency, it shows that although we do a fair job of moving the ball between the 20's, once the field gets compressed and receivers don't have as much room to maneuver, our offense bogs down.

[Hawktawk]

325 with 2 TD passes isn’t dink and dunk . It’s not Geno so just stop . We were a couple flags from being over 100 yards on Denver rushing and averaged 5 ypc. Our game vs the 9 ers we could not do anything at all on the ground which explains our stats on the season . It’s remarkable Geno played as well as he did . If he had Denver’s defense in stead of ours maybe it’s a game . One of our red zone fails was a back throwing a pick .
Our pass game is led by the #10 qbr signal caller . The run game looked way better except Walker running the wrong way on 2 handoffs or who knows .
The offense is gonna need to get going as a unit but it’s way better than the other side of the ball .

[NorthHawk]

The bottom line is we aren't getting many points once we get into the Red Zone and that's what the better QBs get paid for.
In time we will score some and maybe win a few games, but it won't be commonplace with our current QB unfortunately.
It's probably why Pete says the competition continues as even a stale coach can see the current starter isn't the long term answer.

[Hawktawk]

The bottom line is we aren't getting many points once we get into the Red Zone and that's what the better QBs get paid for.
In time we will score some and maybe win a few games, but it won't be commonplace with our current QB unfortunately.
It's probably why Pete says the competition continues as even a stale coach can see the current starter isn't the long term answer.

Of course Geno Isn’t the long term answer ! Good God! Who said it ? He’s clearly the 22 answer , rated in the top ten with a total qbr 4 spots ahead of Tom Brady and 11 ahead of the 160 million guy whose 0-3 easy with our defense . This with no defense to create points or field position , a spotty to non existent run game and critical errors by teammates.

Speaking of which Geno vs Denver 17 points . Russ vs Seattle 16 points , far and away the worst performance vs our defense . Davis Mills who I like as a qb a lot and Jimmy G who you wanted vs Denver 19 points in 8 quarters . Actually 17 because Jimmy gave back 2

I say we cut Geno immediately and trade for Jimmy ? How about that ? Mayfield has the worst total qbr in the league and people on this forum were all over his jock .

Whether you like it barring injury or a serious drop off in play the competition is over for this year . In 6 starts Geno has 1 game with completion in the 60s , 2 in the mid 70s and 3 in the 80s . Carrol had nothing but praise for his play . He was dink and dunk then he he goes for 325 . Throws over 40 times , far better then previous dudes best numbers vs our defense but now he’s not clutch because he can’t convert a 4th and 18 on his 8th drive that he had led scoring drives on 5 of 7 . Yeah he’s a backup. Your blind.

[NorthHawk]

The competition continues.
He might not be the 22 answer for long, either.

[Hawktawk]

The competition continues.
He might not be the 22 answer for long, either.

Keep hatin. Hes worked out better than anything else they did this off season . But gotta hold on to your internet argument.

[trents]

Pass protection has been reasonably good but, as River pointed out, breaks down in key situations, especially when playing teams with superior rushers. I think it will continue to improve as our young O linemen develop recognition as to what pressure schemes opposing defenses dial up in those critical down situations. This just requires playing time and hard work in the film room. NFL teams are very good at disguising their rush packages.

[Hawktawk]

Pass protection has been reasonably good but, as River pointed out, breaks down in key situations, especially when playing teams with superior rushers. I think it will continue to improve as our young O linemen develop recognition as to what pressure schemes opposing defenses dial up in those critical down situations. This just requires playing time and hard work in the film room. NFL teams are very good at disguising their rush packages.

Overall I’m ok with pass protection but yeah the breakdowns have come at key moments . Geno was dead red on the last one Sunday that put us in desperation mode .
I still say with a halfway decent defense that could provide more possessions and shorter fields our offense will be more effective by far . That and cleaning up mistakes in the run game .
I think we’re going to score a lot this game .

[RiverDog]

Pass protection has been reasonably good but, as River pointed out, breaks down in key situations, especially when playing teams with superior rushers. I think it will continue to improve as our young O linemen develop recognition as to what pressure schemes opposing defenses dial up in those critical down situations. This just requires playing time and hard work in the film room. NFL teams are very good at disguising their rush packages.

Which is why most of us, with one notable exception, predicted tough sledding for our offensive line and our team in general, at least initially.

We'll see how it goes this Sunday. The Lions are not a good defensive team as they're ranked worse than we are, so we should be able to put some points on the board. The Lions have yet to hold a team under 27 points. The problem will be stopping them.

[Old but Slow]

Our rookie OTs are doing fine, and they have not been giving up sacks. The problem is with the interior line. Lewis, Blythe, and Jackson are playing poorly, especially Lewis. Cross got whupped a few times this last game, but Lucas held up well, and Cross overall has played well. Joey Hunt? Really?

[Hawktawk]

Our rookie OTs are doing fine, and they have not been giving up sacks. The problem is with the interior line. Lewis, Blythe, and Jackson are playing poorly, especially Lewis. Cross got whupped a few times this last game, but Lucas held up well, and Cross overall has played well. Joey Hunt? Really?

See this is the reverse of my expectations . I expected lots of issues in pass pro but I anticipated a team that ran the ball better then anyone down the stretch could run fairly easily this year and it was the basis for my optimism about our production on offense in general .
I’ll say again so the Debbie downers can keep arguing with me . The run game is close imo
. Close to going the F off. Walker made 2 critical errors going the wrong way on handoffs or who knows because the dude is fast and shifty . Penny is healthy and looks quick as ever . It’s the key to us having 30+ point potential on offense . We will need it to be competetive with this defense . Offense didn’t lose the game Sunday .

[Hawktawk]

Our rookie OTs are doing fine, and they have not been giving up sacks. The problem is with the interior line. Lewis, Blythe, and Jackson are playing poorly, especially Lewis. Cross got whupped a few times this last game, but Lucas held up well, and Cross overall has played well. Joey Hunt? Really?

“
See this is the reverse of my expectations . I expected lots of issues in pass pro but I anticipated a team that ran the ball better then anyone down the stretch could run fairly easily this year and it was the basis for my optimism about our production on offense in general .
I’ll say again so the Debbie downers can keep arguing with me . The run game is close imo
. Close to going the F off. Walker made 2 critical errors going the wrong way on handoffs or who knows because the dude is fast and shifty . Penny is healthy and looks quick as ever . It’s the key to us having 30+ point potential on offense . We will need it to be competetive with this defense . Offense didn’t lose the game Sunday .[/quote]

Just sayin

[NorthHawk]

You have to temper the optimism with the fact we were going against the worst Defense in the league and still almost lost.
Our Pass pro was pretty good for the most part, the Tackles are still learning and making some mistakes that they won't make in the future, but that's to be expected.
I think opposing DE's are beginning to get a book on our Tackles and how to take advantage of them. It might just get a lot harder for them as the year drags on and we face better teams.